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View Full Version : AR/SIG 5.56 pistol ok to be semi?


mvpatriot
11-19-2008, 9:30 PM
Went to Bright spot for a transfer today and spoke with a fellow calgunner regarding the sig556 pistol he was picking up.
According to him, the pistol does not have to stay in single shot config once brought in the state of CA, and as long as all other CA laws are followed ie: BB, low caps etc, semi config is good to go.
I was allways under the impression pistol conversions must stay in single shot config to remain legal?
Anyone confirm, and yes I ran a fruitless search.

adamsreeftank
11-19-2008, 10:11 PM
Most here would say that you should be able to convert it to a semi after it is drosed, as long as you have a fixed 10 round mag and follow all applicable laws so you don't create an AW or a SBR.

...

Quiet
11-19-2008, 10:12 PM
Once you take possession, you can modify it anyway you want as long as it stays in a legal configuration.

freakshow10mm
11-19-2008, 10:13 PM
Quiet's post is correct. It must be DROS'd as a single shot but after that there is no law preventing you from using a 10rd mag.

bwiese
11-20-2008, 12:01 AM
Confirming.... an OLL single-shot pistol can be changed to another pistol form just as long as it's not an AW per 12276.1PC

pacrimguru
11-20-2008, 12:23 AM
in the event your pistol AR catches the eye of LE, how do you prove to them that it is a pistol and not an SBR? also, can you have a butt stock on a pistol build?

badicedog
11-20-2008, 1:01 AM
in the event your pistol AR catches the eye of LE, how do you prove to them that it is a pistol and not an SBR? also, can you have a butt stock on a pistol build?

By not ever having a butt stock on it. The moment you put a butt stock on a upper with a barrel less then 16 inches, you are in felony possession on a SBR. AR/AK pistol build must NEVER have a butt stock. As far as your AR pistol catching the attention of LEO, and it will...I don't know what to tell you.

mvpatriot
11-20-2008, 1:07 AM
Thank you all for clarifying.
Adam, I will be contacting you for a transfer as soon as I verify with seller.

leelaw
11-20-2008, 1:24 AM
Get the pistol via the single-shot exemption.

Once you get it, you can change it to semi-automatic, but due to the magazine well being outside the pistol grip, you'll have to fix a 10rd or less magazine in the magazine well.

hawk1
11-20-2008, 8:35 AM
Went to Bright spot for a transfer today and spoke with a fellow regarding the sig556 pistol he was picking up.
According to him, the pistol does not have to stay in single shot config once brought in the state of CA, and as long as all other CA laws are followed ie: BB, low caps etc, semi config is good to go.
I was allways under the impression pistol conversions must stay in single shot config to remain legal?
Anyone confirm, and yes I ran a fruitless search.

I was the one getting the 556 pistol when you were there. I must appologize for not getting your name or asking if you were on Calguns. My mistake for not asking. I think I was a bit sidetracked with the Sig. You got to admit that thing is badass! :D
Not sure if I metioned to you at BrightSpot that I went through Adam at Freakshow Manufacturing (http://www.freakshowbullets.com/product_info.php?cPath=52_55&products_id=198) for the conversion. He has a very fast turn around and is professional the whole time. I can't say enough about him as a dealer. Excellent prices for his service as well!

69Mach1
11-20-2008, 8:37 AM
Congrats hawk1. I'm jealous.

hawk1
11-20-2008, 8:42 AM
in the event your pistol AR catches the eye of LE, how do you prove to them that it is a pistol and not an SBR? also, can you have a butt stock on a pistol build?


You don't have to prove anything. If they run the pistol, and they will, it will come back as registered with DOJ as a pistol.

You cannot add a stock unless you have a permit or whatever they call it from ATF.

hawk1
11-20-2008, 8:45 AM
Congrats hawk1. I'm jealous.

No, no, no, I know you have a few jewels in your collection that would more than make me blush...:tt1:

GMONEY
11-20-2008, 9:45 AM
Does an AR Pistol count as your 1 per 30? If so I need to wait until next month...

xLusi0n
11-20-2008, 9:54 AM
Can you add a VFG?

69Mach1
11-20-2008, 9:56 AM
Can you add a VFG?

NO, don't do that unless you have the proper paperwork. Federal laws apply.

Does an AR Pistol count as your 1 per 30? If so I need to wait until next month...

Yes, if you had to transfer it in from an outside FFL or had it shipped in to your FFL.

freakshow10mm
11-20-2008, 10:17 AM
Can you add a VFG?
Not unless you file a Form 1 and pay a $200 tax for making an AOW.

ke6guj
11-20-2008, 10:44 AM
Not unless you file a Form 1 and pay a $200 tax for making an AOW.
Or get a friendly SOT to make it an AOW on a Form 2 and then transfer it back to you on a $5 Form 4:D As long as his fee is less than $195, you are ahead of the game.

mvpatriot
11-20-2008, 10:51 AM
I was the one getting the 556 pistol when you were there. I must appologize for not getting your name or asking if you were on Calguns. My mistake for not asking. I think I was a bit sidetracked with the Sig. You got to admit that thing is badass! :D
Not sure if I metioned to you at BrightSpot that I went through Adam at Freakshow Manufacturing (http://www.freakshowbullets.com/product_info.php?cPath=52_55&products_id=198) for the conversion. He has a very fast turn around and is professional the whole time. I can't say enough about him as a dealer. Excellent prices for his service as well!
Yeah, you had everyone in the whole shop sidetracked over that thing!

I believe you said that the piston was removed, and then the sled mag and BB was installed by freakshow correct? Once in the state of CA you simply replace the sled with a 10rd mag and replace the piston for semi operation?

Thanks again for the info guys, and good to meet you yesterday hawk.

BSP was full of Calgunners yesterday!

freakshow10mm
11-20-2008, 10:56 AM
For me I'd have to transfer it on a Form 3 to your CA SOT and they would have to Form 4 it to you. I know there is at least one class 2 SOT here that can help you out. My fee is $100 to AOW an AR pistol and that includes the transfer tax you pay. Just send the gun and grip to me, I file a Form 2, then Form 3 it to your SOT and include a check for $5 to the ATF for your transfer tax.

freakshow10mm
11-20-2008, 10:57 AM
Yeah, you had everyone in the whole shop sidetracked over that thing!

I believe you said that the piston was removed, and then the sled mag and BB was installed by freakshow correct? Once in the state of CA you simply replace the sled with a 10rd mag and replace the piston for semi operation?

Thanks again for the info guys, and good to meet you yesterday hawk.

BSP was full of Calgunners yesterday!
Piston was left installed.

hawk1
11-20-2008, 11:02 AM
Yeah, you had everyone in the whole shop sidetracked over that thing!

It is a sight to see. I'm glad I pulled the trigger on buying it when I did. I had been putting it off since I really wasn't expecting Obama to win. I figured I would rather be safe than sorry, so I purchased the day before his election win. Guess that proves to have been a good move in retrospect. :D

I believe you said that the piston was removed, and then the sled mag and BB was installed by freakshow correct?

I pulled the piston there at BrightSpot. You can ask Adam to do it as well. It's not "mandatory" that it be done. Just added insurance as Bweise suggested.

Once in the state of CA you simply replace the sled with a 10rd mag and replace the piston for semi operation?

Yes, once it's in the state and cleared the DROS process you can.

Thanks again for the info guys, and good to meet you yesterday hawk.

BSP was full of Calgunners yesterday!

In deed it was and it was great to meet you as well MVP!

Nice to see business is good for all.

bwiese
11-20-2008, 11:40 AM
I am uncomfortable with certain nonAR single-shot pistol conversions.

I don't want to create further drama, but folks are overextrapolating the carefully thought out system for ARs.

People need to friggin' THINK and not take the easy/cheap way out.

I have posted a separate thread on this.

These are defendable cases but clearly poor thought processes were involved.

ke6guj
11-20-2008, 12:03 PM
For me I'd have to transfer it on a Form 3 to your CA SOT and they would have to Form 4 it to you. I know there is at least one class 2 SOT here that can help you out. My fee is $100 to AOW an AR pistol and that includes the transfer tax you pay. Just send the gun and grip to me, I file a Form 2, then Form 3 it to your SOT and include a check for $5 to the ATF for your transfer tax.
Actually, I don't beleive you have to use an in-state SOT to transfer it back to the owner. You should be able to FOrm 4 it directly back to the owner.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/041006-vert_grip.htm

The last paragraph is the important one.

A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2. The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms Technology Branch.

I had confirmed that a direct Form 4 from an out-of-state SOT was allowable. The NFA's stance is that it is a return of a owner's firearm, in the same manner of shipping a firearm out of state for repair. I got that from a friendly former NFA-examiner who confirmed it with Gary Schaible, the NFA Branch Program Manager.

freakshow10mm
11-20-2008, 7:09 PM
I thought the the interstate Form 4 was overturned?

ke6guj
11-20-2008, 7:21 PM
I thought the the interstate Form 4 was overturned?That may be possible. I heard rumors about that, from Vector, IIRC. But that was also around the time they were closing up shop. My first-hand info from NFA was in March 2008. I know that at least one 07/02SOTs still advertises the interstate Form 4 option for SBRs built on customer-owned firearms.

50CalAL
03-07-2009, 5:03 AM
I was the one getting the 556 pistol when you were there. I must appologize for not getting your name or asking if you were on Calguns. My mistake for not asking. I think I was a bit sidetracked with the Sig. You got to admit that thing is badass! :D
Not sure if I metioned to you at BrightSpot that I went through Adam at Freakshow Manufacturing (http://www.freakshowbullets.com/product_info.php?cPath=52_55&products_id=198) for the conversion. He has a very fast turn around and is professional the whole time. I can't say enough about him as a dealer. Excellent prices for his service as well!

Hawk1, how do you like that SIG 556 pistol? Have you had a chance to shoot it? I'm trying to get one also and am bidding on one through gunbroker. You mind sharing with me where you got yours in case I lose that bid? PM sent as well.

Thanks.