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View Full Version : Handgun receipt = proof of lock purchase?


CHS
11-19-2008, 2:35 PM
Just a thought I had.

For purposes of fulfilling the absurd and stupid federal lock requirements for the purchases of handguns, would a receipt for a handgun that comes with a locking device (CA approved, even) that has been purchased within the last 30 days, qualify as the receipt for a locking device on another handgun purchase (PPT)?

My scenario:

This past Friday I DROS'ed a handgun in a PPT transaction. I will require a lock or receipt for a lock when I pick it up on Monday.
Today I DROS'ed a handgun from dealer inventory (Ruger GP100 with CA-approved ruger lock). Would the lock and receipt for today's purchase be enough to fulfill the fed requirements for when I pick up my PPT gun on Monday?

Librarian
11-19-2008, 2:38 PM
If the receipt specifies the lock, and the lock fits the PPT gun, it should qualify; be sure to bring the lock, too.

Pinto
11-19-2008, 3:14 PM
FWIW - I have an email from doj.ca.gov answering a question I had regarding the FSD requirement on PPT (specifically the reciept requirement) and also addressed this issue:

"... One more point: if the handgun or long gun comes from the manufacturer with a CA approved lock (meaning you or the dealer has gone online to our website to verify the CA approved lock is approved for this specific gun), it can be reflected on the DROS form, in the comments field, "OEM / Pro-Lok GL650 (as an example). OEM means Original Equipment from the Manufacturer; but we still want on the DROS a notation of how the FSD requirement was satisfied." [I will supply a copy of the email if you wish - PM me your email addy]

This specifically address how California DOJ looks at an OEM supplied lock. Can't say how the Feds would view it.

Also FWIW, the seller can hand write out a receipt for the lock if there is an approved one with the gun & not OEM. DOJ does not require a printed receipt from a retail establishment.

Steve

Max-the-Silent
11-19-2008, 4:25 PM
FWIW - I have an email from doj.ca.gov answering a question I had regarding the FSD requirement on PPT (specifically the reciept requirement) and also addressed this issue:

"... One more point: if the handgun or long gun comes from the manufacturer with a CA approved lock (meaning you or the dealer has gone online to our website to verify the CA approved lock is approved for this specific gun), it can be reflected on the DROS form, in the comments field, "OEM / Pro-Lok GL650 (as an example). OEM means Original Equipment from the Manufacturer; but we still want on the DROS a notation of how the FSD requirement was satisfied." [I will supply a copy of the email if you wish - PM me your email addy]

This specifically address how California DOJ looks at an OEM supplied lock. Can't say how the Feds would view it.

Also FWIW, the seller can hand write out a receipt for the lock if there is an approved one with the gun & not OEM. DOJ does not require a printed receipt from a retail establishment.

Steve


And some bottom feeder shops will insist that you have to buy a lock from them...

shoupdawg
11-19-2008, 4:30 PM
And some bottom feeder shops will insist that you have to buy a lock from them...

Yes, Turner's.

Pinto
11-19-2008, 4:38 PM
Yes, Turner's.

I've taken a copy of the DOJ email with me - and I tell them to call the DOJ person who sent it. It's still been met with skepticism by the FFL, so I leave a copy, along with the handwritten receipt. When I come back in 10 days, there's been no problem -YMMV.

When I spoke with DOJ-lady on the phone, she said she tried to make it specific enough that the FFL should have no problem understanding.

Mulay El Raisuli
11-20-2008, 5:52 AM
The proper procedure is;
Buy the lock at Big-5, Wal-Mart or wherever you like. Take it to the FFL & show the lock & receipt. Pick up new gun. Take lock with receipt back to Big-5 or Wal-Mart wherever & get your money back.

Done.


The Raisuli

halifax
11-20-2008, 6:23 AM
Just a thought I had.

For purposes of fulfilling the absurd and stupid federal lock requirements for the purchases of handguns, would a receipt for a handgun that comes with a locking device (CA approved, even) that has been purchased within the last 30 days, qualify as the receipt for a locking device on another handgun purchase (PPT)?




It may be hard to convince the FFL that a lock provided with one handgun can be used to satisfy the requirement that a locking device be provided with each handgun.

groovielou
11-20-2008, 8:08 AM
Can't you just solve the problem by telling them about the "safe" you own? You know that Sentry *wink* *wink*???

Librarian
11-20-2008, 9:28 AM
Can't you just solve the problem by telling them about the "safe" you own? You know that Sentry *wink* *wink*???

No, because the Feds do not yet accept safes. See http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=1495010#post1495010

CHS
11-20-2008, 10:19 AM
The proper procedure is;
Buy the lock at Big-5, Wal-Mart or wherever you like. Take it to the FFL & show the lock & receipt. Pick up new gun. Take lock with receipt back to Big-5 or Wal-Mart wherever & get your money back.


That wasn't the point of the original post. I know this tactic. I've used this tactic. It has nothing to do with what I asked about though.

Mulay El Raisuli
11-22-2008, 6:57 AM
That wasn't the point of the original post. I know this tactic. I've used this tactic. It has nothing to do with what I asked about though.


My apologies then. I was just attempting to save you some money.

The Raisuli

J6P
11-22-2008, 7:40 AM
...

eltee
11-22-2008, 8:55 AM
Can a buyer just bring in an approved lock/lock box or does the shop need to photocopy the receipt? I have a couple of approved locks, but the receipts are long gone. Also, can I take an "approved" OEM lock from one gun and take it to the dealer if the other gun is in a safe? IIRC, all they did was mark the DROS comment box with "customer provided own CA approved lock" and I don't recall showing a receipt for it...or am I wrong??

CHS
11-22-2008, 8:59 AM
Thanks for the heads up on this.

FWIW, I've did PPT's at Little John's, Ade's, Turner's & Fowlers Stockade. Only Little John's required I purchase a gun lock. The other three allowed an Affadavit of Gun Safe Ownership.

For any future PPT's I will include a copy of the gun safe purchase receipt attached to the Affadavit which (IMO) should be a requirement if opting for the affadavit instead of purchasing a gun lock.

It depends on what you're buying.

HANDGUNS require a lock, period. This is a federal requirement.
LONGGUNS require a lock, only in CA. The safe affidavit is acceptable for this.

CSACANNONEER
11-22-2008, 9:03 AM
Thanks for the heads up on this.

FWIW, I've did PPT's at Little John's, Ade's, Turner's & Fowlers Stockade. Only Little John's required I purchase a gun lock. The other three allowed an Affadavit of Gun Safe Ownership.

For any future PPT's I will include a copy of the gun safe purchase receipt attached to the Affadavit which (IMO) should be a requirement if opting for the affadavit instead of purchasing a gun lock.

Either they are not abiding by federal law OR, you bought long guns from those stores which allowed only a safe affadavit OR, your handgun purchases in question took place before the fairly new federal law took effect.

Pvt. Cowboy
11-22-2008, 9:08 AM
The proper procedure is;
Buy the lock at Big-5, Wal-Mart or wherever you like. Take it to the FFL & show the lock & receipt. Pick up new gun. Take lock with receipt back to Big-5 or Wal-Mart wherever & get your money back.

Done.


The Raisuli

I think Calgunners should get CA-approved gun locks plated in 18k gold and wear them around their necks on a chain as a token symbol of repression.

KJS
11-22-2008, 11:05 AM
I think Calgunners should get CA-approved gun locks plated in 18k gold and wear them around their necks on a chain as a token symbol of repression.


http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7663/img1737fn2.jpg

May I suggest the OEM lock on the Ruger 10/22? I know it's not a handgun lock, but this thing is a beast - it would give off the "rap video vibe"/real oppression with its sheer size.

Librarian
11-22-2008, 11:42 AM
Thanks for the heads up on this.

FWIW, I've did PPT's at Little John's, Ade's, Turner's & Fowlers Stockade. Only Little John's required I purchase a gun lock. The other three allowed an Affadavit of Gun Safe Ownership.

For any future PPT's I will include a copy of the gun safe purchase receipt attached to the Affadavit which (IMO) should be a requirement if opting for the affadavit instead of purchasing a gun lock.

You apparently have found some FFLs who are a bit more confident than many. Good for them, and for you!

Since the Federal law actually does include safes as acceptable, the lack of BATFE guidance including safes should not result in any problems, but I'm very sympathetic to a dealer who would be hesitant.