View Full Version : ammunitionaccountability.org

11-18-2008, 9:08 PM

Has this been discussed?.

Say goodbye to all your unmarked ammo by 2011 if this passes.

11-18-2008, 9:10 PM
jesus christ. Time to stock up again. Worth their weight in gold i tells you!

11-19-2008, 6:16 AM
David Codrea (http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/11/capitalists-selling-rope.html) had some interesting information on the guys who came up with the technique. It looks like some "fellow" gunners are willing to sell us out to make a (monopoly-enforced) buck.

11-19-2008, 6:49 AM
Patent and then legislate non patented items out of existance has proved to be extremely profitable.

We see this in the case of R12 and R134.

Invent R134, patent it.
Legislate R12 away.

11-19-2008, 11:09 AM
The current CA version doesn't even have the word ammunition in it any longer. This bill has been completely converted.

11-19-2008, 3:13 PM
This is my letter in response to the legislative proposal from last spring.
Dear Senator

This is in response to SB 1200, which I believe to be a bad piece of legislation that would nothing to protect the citizens on Missouri.

People would be required to forfeit all personally-owned non-encoded ammunition. After a certain date, it would be illegal to possess non-encoded ammunition. Gun owners possess hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition for target shooting, hunting and personal protection. Consider that American manufacturers produce 8 billion rounds each year.

Reloading (re-using cartridge cases multiple times) would be abolished. There would be no way to correspond serial numbers on cartridge cases, and different sets and quantities of bullets.

People would be required to separately register every box of "encoded ammunition." This information would be supplied to the police. Most states do not even require registration of guns. Each box of ammunition would have a unique serial number, thus a separate registration.

Private citizens would have to maintain records, if they sold or gave ammunition to anyone, including family members or friends.

The cost of ammunition would soar, for police and private citizens alike. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute estimates it would take three weeks to produce ammunition currently produced in a single day. For reason of cost, manufacturers would produce only ultra-expensive encoded ammunition, which police and the military would have to buy, just like everyone else.

A tax would be imposed on private citizens, not only upon initial sale, but every time the ammunition changes hands thereafter.

Shotgun ammunition cannot be engraved. Shotgun pellets are too small to be individually engraved. Shotgun cartridge cases are made of plastic, which would be difficult to engrave.

Criminals could beat the system. A large percentage of criminals` ammunition (and guns) is stolen. Criminals could also collect ammunition cases from shooting ranges, and reload them with molten lead bullets made without serial numbers.

Congress eliminated a similar requirement in the 1980s, because there was no law enforcement benefit. Federal law had required purchasers of handgun ammunition to sign a ledger, but Congress repealed that requirement in 1983 (.22 rimfire) and 1986 (center-fire handguns), because it burdened purchasers, vendors and police, with no law enforcement benefit.

These are the general deficiencies in this type of legislation as I read the proposed law.

I am also a cartridge collector. As proposed, this law would make my entire collection illegal and I, along with many others, would have to make the choice, automatically become criminals, leave the state, or destroy a valuabble and historic collection.

As a shooter of historic military rifles I find it cost effective to buy foreign made surplus ammunition. All sources of this legally imported and sold would immediatly stop sales within the state of Missouri.

As a reloader I would no longer be able to cast and reload my own bullets without purchasing a laser engraving system for my own use.

As far as the technology involved in this process goes, I have several questions.

Why have there been no independent, peer-reviewed studies by qualified forensic scientists?

Why has the technology involved not been the subject of any articles in the journal of the Association of Firearm and Toolmark Examiners (AFTE), the relevant professional society?

Why have no independent studies been done to determine the safety implications of using high speed laser engravers in the presence of the ammunition components, i.e. primers, propellants, etc? For instance, flash photography is not permitted inside factories because of gunpowder ignition concerns.

Most importantly, who gains monetarily?

The proposals for nearly identical legislation have seen a rash of submissions since the start of the year. All are nearly identical in wording and scope. http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm
The primary source for promotion of this legislation seems to be a lobbying group in Seattle(http://www.gth-gov.com/clients.html), that represents the sole provider of the bullet identification system(http://www.ammocoding.com/) that would reap untold benefits since they not only sell the equipment but also get a royalty on each bullet marked.

One last question.
If a database of all ammunition purchases is kept, isn't de facto registration of all firearms? How will this database be kept private,i.e. out of the hands of criminals who would like to know where likely targets for gun theft live?

I thank you for your consideration of my thoughts on this bad piece of legislation.

Kentucky Update: Bullet Serialization Bill Pulled

The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) -- the trade association of the firearms and ammunition industry -- has learned that due to the voluminous phone calls received in opposition to Kentucky's bullet serialization bill, the legislation (HB 715) was withdrawn by the bill's sponsor less than 48 hours after being introduced.

"It goes to show that the unified voice of the firearms industry's base, vigilant sportsmen and gun owners has a tremendous impact," said NSSF Senior Vice President and General Counsel Lawrence G. Keane. "But we should be under no illusion here. Bullet serialization remains a threat in states across the country and can be easily re-introduced at a later date in Kentucky."

Keane added, "Serializing ammunition on a mass production basis is not feasible from a practical standpoint. Any legislation mandating such action would have resulted in an ammunition ban in Kentucky, as any manufacturer that tried to individually mark each cartridge would go bankrupt."

NSSF will continue to monitor all firearms and ammunition related legislation at the federal, state and local levels of government.

For what it's worth at the first hearing of the judicial committee in Maryland, there was much more opposition than support and the bill's death is felt to be soon at hand.
With a big tip of the hat to Remington and Federal representatives who were there representing the ammunition industry.

Reactions of Legislators in Maryland

Testifying at a House Judiciary Committee meeting Tuesday, Ford, of Seattle, said he has a patent for ammunition-encoding technology.

Opponents, including committee members, took turns tearing into Ford's plan, calling it unwieldy and oppressive. Thirty-five people signed up to testify against the bill.

Referring to Ford's patent, Del. Michael D. Smigiel Sr., R-Caroline/Cecil/Kent/Queen Anne's, said, "I hope that you never make a dime, sir."

Del. Christopher B. Shank, R-Washington, said the state already has a ballistic "fingerprint" system that doesn't help solve crimes.

The primary source for promotion of this legislation seems to be a lobbying group in Seattle(http://www.gth-gov.com/clients.html), that represents the sole provider of the bullet identification system(http://www.ammocoding.com/) that would reap untold benefits since they not only sell the equipment but also get a royalty on each bullet marked.

My question is, what is the connection betwen the legislators proposing this carbon copy legislation and the lobby firm?

Other than money that is.