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View Full Version : OC BOS Discussing CCW Online Now


Doheny
11-18-2008, 11:09 AM
If you're interested, you can watch online here:

http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/menuitem.60dd148ab86dc8d8ba092f59900016a0/?vgnextoid=2e8aea093e054110VgnVCM1000000100007fRCR D&vgnextfmt=default

Click the "live meeting" link. It will also be able to be viewed later as a recording...a great oportunity to see CalGunners online!

Right now she's looking stressed.

JDoe
11-18-2008, 11:13 AM
Very cool, watching it now. Thanks for the link!

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 11:14 AM
Damnit, can't view it from where I'm at.

I wanted to come to the BOS meeting this morning but I got pulled into the hospital. I hope it goes well for us! :D

JDoe
11-18-2008, 11:18 AM
Right now the supervisors are asking questions of the Sheriff. Of course she didn't bring anything with her and has answered too many questions with, "I don't have that information here but I can get that for you" kind of answers.

tmuller
11-18-2008, 11:20 AM
ARGH I don't have sound at work...what's she saying???

ETA: yes they have CC!!!

Hanniballs
11-18-2008, 11:20 AM
says video isn't available.

Doheny
11-18-2008, 11:23 AM
says video isn't available.

Make sure you're clicking "play" of the "live meeting" link...

JDoe
11-18-2008, 11:23 AM
http://209.128.123.175/OrangeCounty/0eb45969-30aa-43cb-8187-7bb4a1c0dae2/11-18-08AM/Presentation_file/live.asx

Doheny
11-18-2008, 11:25 AM
http://209.128.123.175/OrangeCounty/0eb45969-30aa-43cb-8187-7bb4a1c0dae2/11-18-08AM/Presentation_file/live.asx


Yep, use JDoe's link...takes you straight to it.

use my link to watch a recording later.

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 11:26 AM
Woohoo! Thanks for the direct link! It works fine on VLC

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 11:32 AM
Seems like Supervisor Norby is pretty level headed so far concerning CCW...

GMONEY
11-18-2008, 11:33 AM
Yes Norby ROCKS!

Glock22Fan
11-18-2008, 12:03 PM
Who is this adam henry telling them that the sheriff works for the A.G. and can't do anything the A.G. doesn't want them to?

I missed the start of that and didn't get the intro.

Also, who is the woman next to him?

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 12:11 PM
Who is this adam henry telling them that the sheriff works for the A.G. and can't do anything the A.G. doesn't want them to?

I missed the start of that and didn't get the intro.

Also, who is the woman next to him?

I had to step away for awhile. But basically, the AG is the acting supervisor of the DA and Sheriffs of all 58 counties.

The woman next to him is the some type of county counsel.

The guy is the douche (chief of staff of the chairman) who replied to the email above... :rolleyes:

What gets me is that these two give a presentation together but realistically, the above reply was incorporated into the slides, so it seems like she's just a fish being baited along for HIS presentation. She barely was able to answer any of the supervisor's questions accurately.

You missed it when Supervisory Norby totally owned them for a good 5-7 minutes. :D

1BigPea
11-18-2008, 12:18 PM
This is so great watching this!!!!!

Thanks for the link!

Kestryll
11-18-2008, 12:19 PM
WOO HOO!!!!

GO ED!!!!!!

Doheny
11-18-2008, 12:21 PM
Public comment starting now. They'll break at 1230 then start again at one. The public comment will easily go on for an hour or two at that time.

Edit: looks like they're running late as to be expected....it's 1:25 now.

lioneaglegriffin
11-18-2008, 12:25 PM
Public comment starting now. They'll break at 1230 then start again at noon. The public comment will easily go on for an hour or two at that time.

noon tommorow?

JDoe
11-18-2008, 12:25 PM
Yeehaa! This is getting good! :D Probably won't go anywhere today but plants the idea of shall issue in some peoples minds.

Kestryll
11-18-2008, 12:28 PM
Chuck Michel!!!

Another one for our side!!!

yellowfin
11-18-2008, 12:29 PM
They asked Ed directly how to change California's situation into Florida or Virginia...WHY did he not simply reply "Change the law to shall issue" ??!??! He had it right over the plate and whiffed. TOSS GOOD CAUSE OUT ENTIRELY.

Doheny
11-18-2008, 12:33 PM
noon tommorow?

Today. Originally they were going to take public comment until 1230, break for a 1/2 hr lunch and start again at 1300. It looks like they're pushing that back a bit. When they do take lunch and return, it will still be at least an hour of public comment.

hoffmang
11-18-2008, 12:34 PM
WHY did he not simply reply "Change the law to shall issue" ??!??! He had it right over the plate and whiffed.

This is not the meeting to change state laws. We will end up with worse CCW if we attempt to have the state law changed before a Federal Court rules on the issue.

-Gene

Santa Cruz Armory
11-18-2008, 12:34 PM
This is exciting none the less!

Doheny
11-18-2008, 12:36 PM
...Probably won't go anywhere today....

That's my concern. After all this, she (the sheriff) can just say "thanks, but no thanks, I'm still going to do it my way."

Let's hope I'm wrong.

yellowfin
11-18-2008, 12:36 PM
It seems the board is getting a good education on the matter, at very least. I really wish they'd be a lot more positive only rather than waffly--they seem to be only halfhearted that pro CCW is the way to go rather than stating outrightly that shall issue is what they should want to do. They kept making the arguement then watering it down and screwing it up with the whole "discretion" nonsense. What the hell?!??

This kind of hearing needs to go on in Santa Clara next.

Ironchef
11-18-2008, 12:37 PM
Wow, that's Chuck eh? They won't let him sit down? It seems good that they're asking him such questions since it appears they know very little of these things. Of course they probably don't need to know such things.

Helluva guy Mr. "Michelle".

Haha,, "You don't go duck hunting when 1 out of 20 ducks shoot back!"

megavolt121
11-18-2008, 12:40 PM
Lovin' it...

"1 out of 20 people might have a firearm. You don't go duckhunting when 1 out of 20 ducks might shoot back"

Doheny
11-18-2008, 12:41 PM
They'll be back at 1:15ish...

Matt C
11-18-2008, 12:41 PM
Great stuff, Chuck is the man. I wish I could be there but it's a school day.

Knight
11-18-2008, 12:42 PM
Lovin' it...

"1 out of 20 people might have a firearm. You don't go duckhunting when 1 out of 20 ducks might shoot back"

I liked this quote too :D

Pretty cool setup they have there, with the streaming video. It's exciting to watch this stuff happen live.

JDoe
11-18-2008, 12:45 PM
Lovin' it...

"1 out of 20 people might have a firearm. You don't go duckhunting when 1 out of 20 ducks might shoot back"

Yeah, that was good and many people seemed to "get it."

Didn't Chuck Michelle say that with a shall issue CCW system that violent crime goes down and property crime goes up as criminals shift their attention to less risky crimes?

xxdabroxx
11-18-2008, 12:48 PM
just got here, whats going on? i know they just broke for lunch, but what is the topic of discussion. I know CCW is being discussed, but why, what topic?

1BigPea
11-18-2008, 1:04 PM
Mind as well call it a day...

I'm not going to get any work done now that this is on!!

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 1:05 PM
just got here, whats going on? i know they just broke for lunch, but what is the topic of discussion. I know CCW is being discussed, but why, what topic?

:confused:

hotwls13
11-18-2008, 1:07 PM
Nevermind

Doheny
11-18-2008, 1:14 PM
Mind as well call it a day...

I'm not going to get any work done now that this is on!!

Me too...and my wife is giving me the "look".

xxdabroxx
11-18-2008, 1:16 PM
"Response to Board Directive (10/7/08) - Oral Report on update of Concealed Carry Weapons (CCW) Permits - All Districts"

Thats all i could find

Glock22Fan
11-18-2008, 1:19 PM
"Response to Board Directive (10/7/08) - Oral Report on update of Concealed Carry Weapons (CCW) Permits - All Districts"

Thats all i could find

I guess you guys haven't been paying any attention to the CCW happenings in Orange County over the last six months or so.

Do a search, it's way to much to fill you in here.

Doheny
11-18-2008, 1:26 PM
Looks like they're back...volume is off, which means the meeting hasn't started yet.

Edit...starting now...you may need to refresh your viewer.

jb7706
11-18-2008, 1:26 PM
They are back.

fairfaxjim
11-18-2008, 1:27 PM
"Response to Board Directive (10/7/08) - Oral Report on update of Concealed Carry Weapons (CCW) Permits - All Districts"

Thats all i could find

Search: Sandra Hutchens
There's at least 2 threads on the first page of the 2A section you can find without a search.

Pay attention, there will be a quiz. :D

1BigPea
11-18-2008, 1:29 PM
It's going...

Doheny
11-18-2008, 1:31 PM
I wasn't sure if the Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO)/pilot was going to do a Crazy Ivan, but sounds like he's on our side.

Ok, sounds like those FFDOs who have CCWs have had a "to and from the airport" restriction put on their CCWs. Dumb.

Sgt Raven
11-18-2008, 1:32 PM
That's my concern. After all this, she (the sheriff) can just say "thanks, but no thanks, I'm still going to do it my way."

Let's hope I'm wrong.

Well OC BOS holds the purse strings of OC SO and can cut her, the Sheriff's, budget at will. :p

Doheny
11-18-2008, 1:48 PM
Well OC BOS holds the purse strings of OC SO and can cut her, the Sheriff's, budget at will. :p

Yeah, well that's not really true. Do you really think the BOS would cut her budget just because of her CCW policy? That would be too politically untenable. The first time something were to happen, she could claim it was because she wasn't funded properly from the BOS. That's not a risk they're willing to take They may feel strongly about CCWs, but they're not going to fall on their swords over the issue.

steadyrock
11-18-2008, 1:48 PM
Also, the BOS appointed Hutchens, she was not elected. Therefore the BOS has a personal stake in how well she is perceived by the voting public when election time comes in 2010. It's in their personal best interest to take a hands-on approach to this now that they realize a significant and vocal portion of the public is not on their side.

steadyrock
11-18-2008, 4:01 PM
UPDATE in case you're no longer watching: The public comments section just ended. 4 hours of nonstop, back to back testimony from the voting public on this issue. I listened to nearly all of it and only heard ONE person speaking in support of the Sheriff's current policy. I believe the CCW sentiment in Orange County was well established today. As one presenter stated: "Sheriff Hutchens, welcome to Orange County."

My deepest respect and thanks to all who spoke today. :hurray:

Doheny
11-18-2008, 4:03 PM
UPDATE in case you're no longer watching: The public comments section just ended. 4 hours of nonstop, back to back testimony from the voting public on this issue. I listened to nearly all of it and only heard ONE person speaking in support of the Sheriff's current policy. I believe the CCW sentiment in Orange County was well established today. As one presenter stated: "Sheriff Hutchens, welcome to Orange County."

My deepest respect and thanks to all who spoke today. :hurray:

+1

CalGuns was down for most of the public comments (at least I couldn't get on)....a Sheriff Dept plot, possibly? ;)

psssniper
11-18-2008, 4:04 PM
To people in favor of the Sheriff, Mr. & Mrs. Blek

Orange counties most vocal anti-gun people.

SenorJefe
11-18-2008, 4:09 PM
I wasn't sure if the Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO)/pilot was going to do a Crazy Ivan, but sounds like he's on our side.

Ok, sounds like those FFDOs who have CCWs have had a "to and from the airport" restriction put on their CCWs. Dumb.

I missed the part of the meeting that must've covered this. As far as I know, this is not true. I personally know a pilot who is a FFDO in my county and he is not restricted by any means more than a standard ccw holder. I dunno he rest of the story, though.

GMONEY
11-18-2008, 4:15 PM
Holy sh*t! I will be a criminal in CLETS if the Sherrif doesn't reconsider!!! THIS IS INSANE! I THOUGHT SHE TOOK AN OATH!

Doheny
11-18-2008, 4:20 PM
I missed the part of the meeting that must've covered this. As far as I know, this is not true. I personally know a pilot who is a FFDO in my county and he is not restricted by any means more than a standard ccw holder. I dunno he rest of the story, though.

The FFDO who spoke lived in OC and was speaking of other FFDOs in Orange County who have had such a restriction placed on their CCW by Sheriff Hutchens. The restriction comes from the agency issuing the CCW, not TSA or FAA.

yellowfin
11-18-2008, 4:22 PM
Holy sh*t! I will be a criminal in CLETS if the Sherrif doesn't reconsider!!! THIS IS INSANE! I THOUGHT SHE TOOK AN OATH!Her allegiance to anything other than anti gun ideals is null and void when the pressure is on.

Santa Cruz Armory
11-18-2008, 4:23 PM
So is the meeting over? What was the "feeling" of the pros?

psssniper
11-18-2008, 4:25 PM
Still going on, Supervisors are discussing resolution

1BigPea
11-18-2008, 4:26 PM
I'm so glad that there were only two opponents to CCW, or at least only 2 that I saw.

This shows great organization on pro-CCW and pro 2nd A.

Grakken
11-18-2008, 4:31 PM
I think the wearing of the green buttons by most of the speakers was the wrong move. To me, an outside observer, it showed to me that the group who wore the green pins were just more organized and motivated at this particular meeting.

I wouldn't have had them wear the green pins to at least give the impression that more 'individuals' showed up on their own accord rather than with a group (biased group at that). Now before i get flamed, i am PRO CCW (shall issue) and 2A or i wouldn't be here. Just my observations.

Grak

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 4:44 PM
Holy sh*t! I will be a criminal in CLETS if the Sherrif doesn't reconsider!!! THIS IS INSANE! I THOUGHT SHE TOOK AN OATH!

Me too... ugh.

JDoe
11-18-2008, 4:51 PM
They're baaaaaaaaaack....

Doheny
11-18-2008, 4:56 PM
I liked Norby's "reso"...too bad they couldn't have voted then and be done with it. They keep talking about leaving good cause up the the sheriff...what's why we're in this mess in the first place.

Hopefully someone who was there will get on (here) later and give us a blow-by-blow of what went on behind the scenes.

1BigPea
11-18-2008, 4:56 PM
Long day...

Doheny
11-18-2008, 5:21 PM
Did Greg Block speak? If so, I missed it.

steadyrock
11-18-2008, 5:24 PM
Did Greg Block speak? If so, I missed it.

I believe he did. I missed it by a few minutes as well.

Gray Peterson
11-18-2008, 5:37 PM
Tell me that there's a way to watch this meeting later. I'm at work all day. :/

Vidar
11-18-2008, 5:43 PM
Did Greg Block speak? If so, I missed it.

Greg Block was not one of the speakers.

U2BassAce
11-18-2008, 5:55 PM
Greg Block was not one of the speakers.

He was not in attendance.

But there were over 250 CCW supporters there. Plus 80 speakers in support.

five.five-six
11-18-2008, 6:05 PM
My deepest respect and thanks to all who spoke today. :hurray:

I wish I could have stayed, but I had my 3-year-old boy with me, sporting a green CACCW pin, unfortunatly he had to go pe pee before the lunch break and after that he was just not going to sit still or be quiet for the rest of the meeting

Doheny
11-18-2008, 6:09 PM
Tell me that there's a way to watch this meeting later. I'm at work all day. :/

Click the link below, scroll down, find today's date. They start talking about the issue in the morning session about 1:45. Pretty much all of the afternoon session is regarding the CCW matter.

http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/menuitem.60dd148ab86dc8d8ba092f59900016a0/?vgnextoid=2e8aea093e054110VgnVCM1000000100007fRCR D&vgnextfmt=default



.

lobonegro
11-18-2008, 6:17 PM
Does anyone have the resolution that passed?

M. Sage
11-18-2008, 6:58 PM
Holy sh*t! I will be a criminal in CLETS if the Sherrif doesn't reconsider!!! THIS IS INSANE! I THOUGHT SHE TOOK AN OATH!

What? Explain, please.

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 7:03 PM
What? Explain, please.

Basically, a LEO, when running your DL, can see in CLETS if you have ever had/have a CCW, revoked/denied/whatever.

Liberty1
11-18-2008, 7:04 PM
What? Explain, please.

Also, some are concerned about how a "revocation/renewal denial", reported to DOJ by the issuing agency (Sheriff's Office), will look when security clearances and background checks are reviewed by FED government agencies or an employer.

Glock22Fan
11-18-2008, 7:05 PM
What? Explain, please.


A lot of discussion as to what would happen if an OC resident with a revoked permit and a dead taillight was run through the system somewhere far away and the cops read about the revocation on CLETS.

"Holy Moley, Barnie, this guy musta done something real bad! Get your sidearm ready and call for backup."

Liberty1
11-18-2008, 7:19 PM
Tell me that there's a way to watch this meeting later. I'm at work all day. :/

And it will take all night to watch ;)

Doheny
11-18-2008, 7:24 PM
It's my understanding a LEO really needs to dig for that information if he wants to find it. A simple wants/warrants check won't show it.

Can any active LEOs here verify?

SenorJefe
11-18-2008, 7:41 PM
The FFDO who spoke lived in OC and was speaking of other FFDOs in Orange County who have had such a restriction placed on their CCW by Sheriff Hutchens. The restriction comes from the agency issuing the CCW, not TSA or FAA.

Wow!! They're Federal agents authorized by the Dept. of Homeland Security to carry. She really is overstepping.

RomanDad
11-18-2008, 7:43 PM
I want to thank everybody who came out today and everybody who was rooting for us online...

I also want to thank the people who have been working behind the scenes to make today a success: In no particular order-

OCCCWS
CalCCW.com
Calguns.com
Bruce Colodney
Chuck Michel
Don Kilmer
Jason Davis
The NRA
The Federal Flight Deck officers
The HUNDREDS who took the time out of their schedules to attend and the dozens and dozens who spoke.
Chris Norby and his staff
Patty Bates and her staff
Bill Campbell and His staff
Janet Nguyen and her staff
Chariman Moorlach.
And the Sheriff, who took the time to respectfully listen to us on why we feel passionately about this issue.

I apologize for anybody I missed...

Thank you all.... Today was an EXTRAORDINARY DAY. I have not felt so much pride and respect for a group of people as I did today in a long long time.

Sincerely,

RD

Doheny
11-18-2008, 7:55 PM
I want to thank everybody who came out today and everybody who was rooting for us online...

RD

Can you summarize your gut feeling about the day? Do you have a link for the Reso that was agreed on?

What do you think Hutchens will do, knowing the reso is non-binding?

Doheny
11-18-2008, 8:07 PM
Wow!! They're Federal agents authorized by the Dept. of Homeland Security to carry. She really is overstepping.


Apparently they can only remove the gun from its locked case while in the cockpit. When they step out to go pee (during a flight) they have to lock in up in the cockpit. When they land, they lock it up again.

steadyrock
11-18-2008, 8:10 PM
OCCCWS has a blow by blow report of the meeting as it happened on their website:

http://www.occcws.com/?p=299

RomanDad
11-18-2008, 8:20 PM
Can you summarize your gut feeling about the day? Do you have a link for the Reso that was agreed on?

What do you think Hutchens will do, knowing the reso is non-binding?

I think the resolution is VERY good.... It started off BAD, and we were able to caucus the board to get some important improvements. It didnt go QUITE as far as we wanted.... BUT.... It does uphold the Carona Standard... It even goes a bit FARTHER than the Carona policy....

I truly HOPE the Sheriff follows the BOS.... To not do so would be a huge error and theres just no reason to do it.

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 8:23 PM
I think the resolution is VERY good.... It started off BAD, and we were able to caucus the board to get some important improvements. It didnt go QUITE as far as we wanted.... BUT.... It does uphold the Carona Standard...

I truly HOPE the Sheriff follows the BOS.... To not do so would be a huge error and theres just no reason to do it.

I don't understand Supervisor Nguyen's motion at the end of the proceedings. Obviously Norby wanted significantly lesser restriction on the CCW issuance/renewals but Nguyen's motion seemed to just reinforce the existing policy that Sheriff Hutchens had. So how is the resolution any better than before the BOS meeting? And, how is it FARTHER than the Carona standard? If that were the case, denials such as myself would be overturned in a short bit, but I don't see that occurring.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Doheny
11-18-2008, 8:26 PM
I don't understand Supervisor Nguyen's motion at the end of the proceedings. Obviously Norby wanted significantly lesser restriction on the CCW issuance/renewals but Nguyen's motion seemed to just reinforce the existing policy that Sheriff Hutchens had. So how is the resolution good?

Yeah, it started going south then. Frankly, I'm not sure she had a good grasp of the issue, rather, was reading what staffed prepared for her (which they do for all, I think Norby is just more savvy.)

RomanDad
11-18-2008, 8:27 PM
I don't understand Supervisor Nguyen's motion at the end of the proceedings. Obviously Norby wanted significantly lesser restriction on the CCW issuance/renewals but Nguyen's motion seemed to just reinforce the existing policy that Sheriff Hutchens had. So how is the resolution any better than before the BOS meeting? And, how is it FARTHER than the Carona standard? If that were the case, denials such as myself would be overturned in a short bit, but I don't see that occurring.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No... A complete reading of the Nguyen resolution is pretty liberal.... 1. It supports "avid Shooter" 2. It supports CCW for people who travel THROUGH dangerous neighborhoods (thats damned near personal protection).

JDoe
11-18-2008, 8:32 PM
Anyone that wants to can view the morning and afternoon OC BOS discussions regarding CCW and Hutchens by clicking on the following links.

Catch the morning session here (http://209.128.123.175/OrangeCounty/b80b9290-2a90-4611-8c8d-db1aae427873/11-18-08AM/Presentation_file/video0.asx). The CCW part starts at 1:42 (one hour and forty two minutes) into the morning session.

Catch the afternoon session here (http://209.128.123.175/OrangeCounty/17bcaf03-514e-43da-b1fd-f2f5bfed6df6/11-18-08PM/Presentation_file/video0.asx). The CCW part continues at 37:30 (Thirty seven minutes, thirty seconds) into the afternoon recording.

Liberty1
11-18-2008, 8:36 PM
I want to thank everybody who...was rooting for us online...


Sincerely,

RD

Any chance of asking BOS staff how many viewers their site had today vs. any other meeting? This might be another statistic which could be useful to ya'all down south.

jb7706
11-18-2008, 9:08 PM
Anyone that wants to can view the morning and afternoon OC BOS discussions regarding CCW and Hutchens by clicking on the following links.

Thanks. There were a few very well done presentations I would like to see again. The 7 year old girl was priceless.

Anthonysmanifesto
11-18-2008, 9:08 PM
looks like someone ran a pretty good drill- who are all the green button people?

yellowfin
11-18-2008, 9:40 PM
Any chance of this coming to Santa Clara BoS? That was an excellent job by everyone, and the Bay Area needs a kick in the pants like that x3-5.

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 9:41 PM
No... A complete reading of the Nguyen resolution is pretty liberal.... 1. It supports "avid Shooter" 2. It supports CCW for people who travel THROUGH dangerous neighborhoods (thats damned near personal protection).
Do you know where we can get a copy of the resolution?

1BigPea
11-18-2008, 9:43 PM
looks like someone ran a pretty good drill- who are all the green button people?

I cant read what it says on there.

who are these wonderful people?


green buttons were- OCCWS (Ordinary California Citizens Concerned With Safety)

http://www.occcws.com/

RomanDad
11-18-2008, 10:11 PM
Do you know where we can get a copy of the resolution?

It should be posted officially on the BOS website... Give them time.... Its been a long day.

As far as the Norby resolution. I liked it, however, the fundamental opposition was, that it didnt define good cause. It "Grandfathered" in existing CCW holders and said to new applicants youre just SOL. And When I met with Bill Campbell Monday afternoon, he had issues with that and I appreciate them. This resolution covers BOTH bases....

Considering the rumors of what MIGHT have happened today, the Sheriff would be well advised to listen to the board... They went easy on her.

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 10:14 PM
It should be posted officially on the BOS website... Give them time.... Its been a long day.

As far as the Norby resolution. I liked it, however, the fundamental opposition was, that it didnt define good cause. It "Grandfathered" in existing CCW holders and said to new applicants youre just SOL. And When I met with Bill Campbell Monday afternoon, he had issues with that and I appreciate them. This resolution covers BOTH bases....

Considering the rumors of what MIGHT have happened today, the Sheriff would be well advised to listen to the board... They went easy on her.

Thanks for the clarification, I always appreciate your input.

exon111
11-18-2008, 10:39 PM
So does this mean that CCWs aren't going to be revoked after all?

Also, how is Morlach on this issue? I'm just curious because I"m friends with his son. I could send Morlach an email if you think it would help our cause.

five.five-six
11-18-2008, 11:18 PM
perhaps it means the honorable Sandra hutchinson will be revoked

yellowfin
11-18-2008, 11:32 PM
perhaps it means the honorable Sandra hutchinson will be revoked
Oh I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that tomorrow morning there will not be a Sheriff Hutchinson in charge of OCSD.

M. D. Van Norman
11-18-2008, 11:49 PM
Well, my browser just ate the long, cogent reply I had written, so all that you poor folks get is my conclusion.

The prohibitionists have finally blundered—and they did so in my county. They’re trying to take something away in a time of rising expectations. That is the historical recipe for revolution, my friends. I suspect that Orange County will figure prominently in the coming battle that may very well bring California shall-issue CCW licensing by law or in practice.

Even though today was only a symbolic victory for the RKBA movement, the prohibitionists have been placed on notice. Unfortunately for them, they seemed surprised and confused. If they don’t have enough sense to concede without costly legal battles, we can perhaps expect more mistakes from them as we follow the road to eventual victory.

Today was a good day.

psssniper
11-19-2008, 12:12 AM
Oh I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that tomorrow morning there will not be a Sheriff Hutchinson in charge of OCSD.


You're right, there will be a Sheriff Hutchens in charge though:D

jedhoop
11-19-2008, 12:14 AM
Please take the time to view the entire session, very educational, great speakers. Thanks to cal guns and everyone involved.

Bill_in_SD
11-19-2008, 12:19 AM
I am about 75% through and all I can say is WOW.

Even if you live in another county, take notes...... this should turn into a roadshow.

Thank you to all the folks that turned out today, this will become bigger than the County of Orange.

jedhoop
11-19-2008, 12:45 AM
Orange County Register
Supervisors tell Sheriff to ease concealed gun policy

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/hutchens-gun-supervisors-2232522-permits-law

bladerunner747
11-19-2008, 12:47 AM
Apparently they can only remove the gun from its locked case while in the cockpit. When they step out to go pee (during a flight) they have to lock in up in the cockpit. When they land, they lock it up again.
That has to be the most stupid federal regulation of all time.
1) Now all pilots become targets when in uniform because they carry a locked case with their duty weapon, and do not have ready access to it if they need to repel the threat from a would be robber.
2) Excessive handling. Those people from TSA o whoever has that program should know that off body carry is a way to lose guns.
3) Excessive handling. Another way to ensure having more Accidental/Negligent Discharges.
Real smart!!!!! And it is coming from people who are running the show, like sheriff Hutchens..........

N6ATF
11-19-2008, 1:10 AM
County supervisors, Sheriff Sandra Hutchens and hundreds of gun activists engaged Tuesday in a Wild West-style shootout over restrictive concealed gun policies Hutchens has introduced during her first six months in office.

What a load of crap. Yes, there was a Wild West-style shootout, and all the ambulances in the county had to respond. Oh wait, there were no ambulances in the Wild West.

Librarian
11-19-2008, 2:06 AM
And this is rich However, Mary and Charles Blek – who lost their son to gun violence – made a point of showing up to the hearing so county supervisors would hear a different point of view on guns.
“The presence of a gun can escalate situations,” Blek said, adding that she and others who were not present approved of Hutchens policy.
“For example, do you want to be at a Ducks game, surrounded by tons of beer and people carrying concealed weapons,” asked Mary Blek.
She told supervisors that while she and her husband respected the views and passion of the audience, they are a small, vocal and organized minority in Orange County.

link (http://media.www.hlrecord.org/media/storage/paper609/news/2003/04/24/News/AntiGun.Activists.Speak.At.KSchool-424748.shtml), link (http://www.vpcoc.org/organization.htm)
"Blek, whose son was shot and killed with a "Saturday-night special" (police slang for a cheap handgun), organized the Million Mom March to prevent gun violence." There's an example of a disinterested, rational participant. No "small, vocal and organized minority" in her background.

RomanDad
11-19-2008, 6:44 AM
And this is rich

link (http://media.www.hlrecord.org/media/storage/paper609/news/2003/04/24/News/AntiGun.Activists.Speak.At.KSchool-424748.shtml), link (http://www.vpcoc.org/organization.htm)
"Blek, whose son was shot and killed with a "Saturday-night special" (police slang for a cheap handgun), organized the Million Mom March to prevent gun violence." There's an example of a disinterested, rational participant. No "small, vocal and organized minority" in her background.

Can somebody please tell Mary Blek that a CCW doesnt ALLOW one to carry in a BAR???? Or the Pond??? (or whatever the hell they call the building now... It'll always be the pond.... And the Anaheim Angles will always be the ANAHEIM ANGELS!!!!). Despite the fact that she sounded horrified that she might unknowingly have to sit in the same room with a person with a loaded gun, SHE SAT NOT 2 feet away from 6 armed police officers with loaded guns and didnt have any worry that the guns would jump from their holsters and start mowing us all down....

M. D. Van Norman
11-19-2008, 7:05 AM
That has to be the most stupid federal regulation of all time.

Let’s not forget that the wonderful, pro-gun G. W. Bush administration had to be dragged kicking and screaming toward arming pilots by the likes of notorious, anti-gun Sen. Barbara Boxer.

psssniper
11-19-2008, 7:19 AM
RomanDad

We call it the "Ponda"

tango-52
11-19-2008, 7:43 AM
looks like someone ran a pretty good drill- who are all the green button people?

I cant read what it says on there.

who are these wonderful people?

The organizing group behind this effort was Ordinary California Citizens Concerned With Safety, OCCCWS, http://www.occcws.com/

The green badges that people were wearing were from that group. Two hundred were passed out at yesterday's meeting. It was an outstanding effort from ordinary citizens (many of whom are NRA members) to bring this issue to the forefront. Hopefully, this effort will spread to other restrictive issue counties.

Glock22Fan
11-19-2008, 8:22 AM
And this is rich

link (http://media.www.hlrecord.org/media/storage/paper609/news/2003/04/24/News/AntiGun.Activists.Speak.At.KSchool-424748.shtml), link (http://www.vpcoc.org/organization.htm)
"Blek, whose son was shot and killed with a "Saturday-night special" (police slang for a cheap handgun), organized the Million Mom March to prevent gun violence." There's an example of a disinterested, rational participant. No "small, vocal and organized minority" in her background.

Wasn't she the one that thought that citizens shouldn't carry guns because police officers were the only ones highly trained enough to be safe with them?

tgun
11-19-2008, 9:17 AM
Don't forget to email Chris Norby (http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/menuitem.4981dc715fc6e27bdadd603d100000f7/?vgnextoid=7339a533450b5110VgnVCM1000000100007fRCR D&vgnextfmt=default) and thank him for bringing this issue to the board.

If you live elsewhere in OC, email your own Supervisor (http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/menuitem.4981dc715fc6e27bdadd603d100000f7/?vgnextoid=b7388765ab824110VgnVCM1000000100007fRCR D&vgnextfmt=default) and thank them for looking at the issue.

fairfaxjim
11-19-2008, 9:51 AM
Yesterdays OC BOS meeting was very interesting. I was a little suprised that they would spend the whole day on an issue that they have absolutely no power on at this point (save for the fact that they are responsible for Sandra Hutchens being the sherif.) I would like to see how eager they all would be to pass something binding that would enhance CCW issue.

Doheny
11-19-2008, 9:55 AM
Here's the take from Red County, a Politico type blog read by the politicos in OC. The author "Jubal" as written a number of pieces against Hutchen's CCW Policy. It wouldn't hurt to add a comment to the article, regardless of where you live: http://www.redcounty.com/orange-county/2008/11/welcome-to-orange-county-sheri/


.

yellowfin
11-19-2008, 10:14 AM
I suppose what should happen now is for more people to apply and tell us how it goes.

Glock22Fan
11-19-2008, 10:44 AM
I suppose what should happen now is for more people to apply and tell us how it goes.

Presumable even before that, those who have been revoked (or threatened with it) should attempt to get the revocation set aside.

RomanDad
11-19-2008, 11:56 AM
Don't forget to email Chris Norby (http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/menuitem.4981dc715fc6e27bdadd603d100000f7/?vgnextoid=7339a533450b5110VgnVCM1000000100007fRCR D&vgnextfmt=default) and thank him for bringing this issue to the board.

If you live elsewhere in OC, email your own Supervisor (http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/menuitem.4981dc715fc6e27bdadd603d100000f7/?vgnextoid=b7388765ab824110VgnVCM1000000100007fRCR D&vgnextfmt=default) and thank them for looking at the issue.


Better than that... EMAIL ALL OF THEM... INCLUDING THE SHERIFF.... THANK THEM FOR LISTENING TO US AND FOR THEIR SUPPORT!!!!

WeThePeople
11-19-2008, 1:01 PM
The Sheriff listened to all of the presentations yesterday. At the end of the day I thanked her for coming and listening to all of us. She had a very good attitude for someone who listened to criticism all day.

I suspect her CCW policy will shift for the better.

RomanDad
11-19-2008, 1:06 PM
RomanDad

We call it the "Ponda"

I must be exhausted....

Ive looked at that 10 times before I figured out the joke.... Very funny!:D

Gray Peterson
11-19-2008, 1:20 PM
Well, if nothing changes then I suggest open carry defense walks at this point. Carefully coordinated, of course.

Liberty1
11-19-2008, 5:15 PM
Well, if nothing changes then I suggest open carry defense walks at this point. Carefully coordinated, of course.

The Orange County CCW organizations are more interested in fighting for a privilege at this time then considering UOC as an available tool. This is not to say they don't support the full 2 A they just recongnize the current political reality and prefer to work within it then to change it by pushing OC out in the open.

They're also not the "marching" type (for various business, political, and tactical personal reasons) and would prefer the inside political route of maneuvering a "Corona CCW" type candidate into office in 2010 if the Madam Sheriff doesn't bend to their gentle guidance.

I personally wish them much success. If they lose in 2010 and if OC loaded is a right and CCWs are still not available, then I think many more will be interested in OC activism as long as it is not too "loud" of an approach for their brand of big business conservatism.

It will take them time to come around. Some never will. UOC and OC activism down there is more a tactic for the politically and business unconnected working stiffs who even under a Corona CCW model would not be issued for simple "defense of family and self". Those plebs are our UOC constituency.

But for those inclined please research californiaopencarry.org (http://californiaopencarry.org)

Liberty1
11-19-2008, 8:52 PM
NRA http://www.nra.org/ has a mention of the BOS meeting and a link to the OC Register Story on their "ticker tape" at the bottom of the screen; "Supervisors Criticize Sheriff Over Tightening Of Concealed Weapons Permits".

GaryPowersLives
11-20-2008, 12:21 PM
I missed the part of the meeting that must've covered this. As far as I know, this is not true. I personally know a pilot who is a FFDO in my county and he is not restricted by any means more than a standard ccw holder. I dunno he rest of the story, though.

You then have to listen to the whole thing. One FFDO just got renewed without restrictions, and one got renewed with. They both spoke.

GaryPowersLives
11-20-2008, 12:25 PM
Did Greg Block speak? If so, I missed it.

Greg Block was not there and he has nothing to do with this, according to some of the members of OCCCWS that I spoke with. The originators of OCCCWS were there, they were the ones that supplied the green pins with the site name on them.

Doheny
11-20-2008, 3:06 PM
Do you know where we can get a copy of the resolution?

I emailed the Board Clerk and she replied this morning saying it's still not prepared. When you figure all the t's gotta be crossed and i's dotted and then each Board member needs to read it, it probably takes time. No doubt County Counsel takes a look at it too.

Doheny
11-20-2008, 3:07 PM
Greg Block was not there and he has nothing to do with this, according to some of the members of OCCCWS that I spoke with.

That's interesting. He's got a CCW and he's the busiest CCW trainer in the county...I figured he would have been there...

NiteQwill
11-20-2008, 3:12 PM
That's interesting. He's got a CCW and he's the busiest CCW trainer in the county...I figured he would have been there...

IMO, I think his politco-reach may have something to do with him not being there.

Cola King Martini
11-20-2008, 4:48 PM
He was out of town training.

Doheny
11-20-2008, 10:23 PM
I have the official Board resolution...it's a PFD file, not sure how to post it. Maybe one of the mods can help...can I email it to one of you?

M. D. Van Norman
11-20-2008, 10:47 PM
No official link? What about a file attachment? If not, you can e-mail to me, and I will host it.

NiteQwill
11-20-2008, 11:10 PM
I have the official Board resolution...it's a PFD file, not sure how to post it. Maybe one of the mods can help...can I email it to one of you?

EDIT: I posted that before I read the resolution. Now that I've read it, I'm VERY impressed!


.

email me at niteqwill (at) gmail dot com and I will host it for you.

Doheny
11-21-2008, 9:29 AM
No official link?

Here it is:
http://cams.ocgov.com/Web_Publisher_Sam/Agenda11_18_2008_files/images/R08-148.PDF


.

vrand
11-21-2008, 10:47 PM
Here it is:
http://cams.ocgov.com/Web_Publisher_Sam/Agenda11_18_2008_files/images/R08-148.PDF


.

Thank you for the PDF link.

Looking forward to the Sheriff's reply.

Librarian
11-21-2008, 11:15 PM
Meh. Better than it could have been, I suppose, but Supervisors didn't tell her to shut down the revocations, absent disqualifying actions by the CCW holders since the permits were issued.

Her 'policy' will be fine for the ones she issues or renews. Not liking the previous guy's policy (where it was legally applied to eligible recipients) is not grounds for revocation, any more than not liking the policy of some other county would allow her to arrest that county's CCW holders for illegal concealed carry.

hoffmang
11-22-2008, 12:45 AM
I think this is the money quote:

The finding of Good Cause should recognize that individuals may also face threats to their safety by virtue of their profession, business, or status and by virtue of their ability to access or possess materials that if forcibly taken would be a danger to society.

That's a wide open GC for gun owners who take firearms to the range.

-Gene

383green
11-22-2008, 10:01 AM
That's a wide open GC for gun owners who take firearms to the range.

If Riverside Co. would consider that to be GC, I'd go to the range every day! ;)

xLusi0n
11-22-2008, 11:40 AM
So, there's nothing protecting current CCW license holders? Also, this is still non-binding, so the Sheriff could still ignore it?

Also, has anyone had theirs revoked yet? What's the deadline to re-submit good cause?

rynando
11-22-2008, 1:37 PM
That's a wide open GC for gun owners who take firearms to the range.
-Gene

I don't see how this resolution will have any effect on the sheriff’s definition of good cause. It was nice that the BOS did this but at the same time it's no different then, for example, the thousands of municipalities who drafted resolutions opposing the war in Iraq. The BOS has no control over the sheriff’s issuance practices.

R

U2BassAce
11-22-2008, 2:02 PM
I don't see how this resolution will have any effect on the sheriff’s definition of good cause. It was nice that the BOS did this but at the same time it's no different then, for example, the thousands of municipalities who drafted resolutions opposing the war in Iraq. The BOS has no control over the sheriff’s issuance practices.

R

True. But they do control the Sheriff's Department budget. Also come the 2010 election, having the BOS endorse you is not a small thing.

rynando
11-22-2008, 4:52 PM
True. But they do control the Sheriff's Department budget. Also come the 2010 election, having the BOS endorse you is not a small thing.

The BOS cutting the Sheriff's department budget over something like this is pretty much political suicide. They'd be lambasted for it by their opposition, the media and safety service unions during their next election cycle. Think of the political hay could be made with something like that. There’s absolutely no way that the BOS will threaten budget cuts over this issue as they’d be opening themselves up to endless “[insert name] doesn’t care about your children’s safety” and “if only we’d had the tools we needed [insert crime] could have been prevented” broadsides during their next election.

The only way things are going to change in OC (if the new sheriff doesn’t see the error of her ways) is through a new sheriff . . . and preferably one who’s in no way connected to that loser Corona who basically handed the new sheriff the moral high ground to do what she’s doing.

R

RomanDad
11-22-2008, 5:36 PM
The BOS cutting the Sheriff's department budget over something like this is pretty much political suicide. They'd be lambasted for it by their opposition, the media and safety service unions during their next election cycle. Think of the political hay could be made with something like that. There’s absolutely no way that the BOS will threaten budget cuts over this issue as they’d be opening themselves up to endless “[insert name] doesn’t care about your children’s safety” and “if only we’d had the tools we needed [insert crime] could have been prevented” broadsides during their next election.

The only way things are going to change in OC (if the new sheriff doesn’t see the error of her ways) is through a new sheriff . . . and preferably one who’s in no way connected to that loser Corona who basically handed the new sheriff the moral high ground to do what she’s doing.

R

So I hear a lot of "stuff" from you on this issue.... Let me ask you this....

WHAT DID YOU DO THIS WEEK TO IMPROVE THE CCW SITUATION IN CA?


Because I saw 250 people get off their asses, take a day off work, and get in front of a TV camera to take a stand on the subject.... All Ive seen you do is complain why it wont work.

bulgron
11-22-2008, 5:54 PM
Because I saw 250 people get off their asses, take a day off work, and get in front of a TV camera to take a stand on the subject.... All Ive seen you do is complain why it wont work.

Is that what you saw?

Because what I saw was 250 unhappy people who will probably be very happy to go out and help Hutchens lose her election big in 2010 if she doesn't mend her ways relative to CCW.

And I saw a BOS that's willing to back them up.

That was a powerful statement made to that sheriff. I can't imagine why anyone would whine about it. But apparently there continue to be people around here who want a magic wand to be waved so that everything is made correct in the world again.