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javalos
11-17-2008, 8:44 PM
I've read DOJ's definition of what a detachable magazine is. Seems a Bullet button meets the definition of a device that requires a tool to release the magazine. Now I'm hearing that a Bullet Button is only temporary means, not a permanent means to render a magazine fixed, thus the AR even with a BB is an assault weapon. Can anyone clear this up for me, thank you.

jmf_tracy
11-17-2008, 8:54 PM
:lurk5:

Casual Observer
11-17-2008, 8:59 PM
I've read DOJ's definition of what a detachable magazine is. Seems a Bullet button meets the definition of a device that requires a tool to release the magazine. Now I'm hearing that a Bullet Button is only temporary means, not a permanent means to render a magazine fixed, thus the AR even with a BB is an assault weapon. Can anyone clear this up for me, thank you.

Show me in the penal code where it says the modification has to be permanent with regards to the rifle itself. :cool:

rbgaynor
11-17-2008, 8:59 PM
Read http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/oal/OAL-280-Suspension-Notice-2007-09-21-w-Attachments.pdf

Casual Observer
11-17-2008, 9:03 PM
Just out of curiosity.....where did you 'hear' that the modification has to be permanent?

sorensen440
11-17-2008, 9:10 PM
Just out of curiosity.....where did you 'hear' that the modification has to be permanent?

I got 5 bucks on it being gun store fud ;)

Librarian
11-17-2008, 9:16 PM
That's a version of the Iggy letter noted in this thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=132323

NiteQwill
11-17-2008, 9:18 PM
Not again :online2long:

jb7706
11-17-2008, 9:49 PM
Not again :online2long:

Yup. Zombie FUD. :eek:

CHS
11-17-2008, 11:31 PM
Seems a Bullet button meets the definition of a device that requires a tool to release the magazine.


Absolutely true.


Now I'm hearing that a Bullet Button is only temporary means, not a permanent means to render a magazine fixed, thus the AR even with a BB is an assault weapon. Can anyone clear this up for me, thank you.

Absolutely false.




Any more questions?

Steve O
11-18-2008, 1:48 AM
Well if we are talking about law, and theory. well...

Theoretically I can mod my legal A15 to slam fire in full auto by grinding of the disconnecter hook. (i think) So does that make me guilty of owning a illegal machine gun?

Point is, you have to actually do the illegal activity before you commit a crime.

Just about any gun, or even a kitchen knife for that matter, can be converted in to a killing weapon. But as it is in its legal configuration, it is perfectly legal.
Just know your law, and stay whit in the law. and when it gets confusing. Well ask questions. lol.

CHS
11-18-2008, 9:04 AM
Just about any gun, or even a kitchen knife for that matter, can be converted in to a killing weapon.

Last I checked, a gun already is a killing weapon :)

motorhead
11-18-2008, 9:07 AM
ahhh! not again! my brain hurts!
BTW- i heard there were no flies in china.

Steve O
11-18-2008, 1:29 PM
Last I checked, a gun already is a killing weapon :)

lol. yea your right. I just thought of it as a plinker. lol.

javalos
11-18-2008, 4:41 PM
Sorry guys, I don't mean to beat this into the ground or cause anyone any headaches. I just wanted to hear some input from you guys because of rumors that fly around and the rumor is devices such as a Bullet Button (BB) is not a valid means to to keep the AR from falling under the description of a so-called "assault weapon" because the device such as a BB can be removed with minimul effort thus rendering the rifle as illegal. Of course I heard that from Iggy, but I was wondering if there is any official DOJ documentation backing what Iggy says.

bwiese
11-18-2008, 4:45 PM
There cannot be official DOJ documentation for what Iggy says because it's legally not possible.

The DOJ (Alison!) tried to change the regulatory definition but suspended that action and left the definition unchanged.

Iggy testimony in the Hunt case also says, in essence, "tool use means not a detachable magazine".

There is ZERO legal requirement for permanence, period. If they did they'd open a can of worms.

The DSA "Cali-FAL" rifle was approved with a nondetachable magazine that was not permanently affixed.

The Barrett M82CA was also approved with a fixed mag (tilt-down using a bail assembly) and can be removed with a screwdriver.

NiteQwill
11-18-2008, 4:47 PM
Sorry guys, I don't mean to beat this into the ground or cause anyone any headaches. I just wanted to hear some input from you guys because of rumors that fly around and the rumor is devices such as a Bullet Button (BB) is not a valid means to to keep the AR from falling under the description of a so-called "assault weapon" because the device such as a BB can be removed with minimul effort thus rendering the rifle as illegal. Of course I heard that from Iggy, but I was wondering if there is any official DOJ documentation backing what Iggy says.

The BB cannot be easily removed. This topic has been beat to death, no person has ever been prosecuted for using the BB. Listening to Iggy was you first mistake, listening to Iggy was your second mistake... ;)

tombinghamthegreat
11-18-2008, 5:02 PM
More FUD....here is a link to help

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

javalos
11-18-2008, 5:05 PM
The BB cannot be easily removed. This topic has been beat to death, no person has ever been prosecuted for using the BB. Listening to Iggy was you first mistake, listening to Iggy was your second mistake... ;)
Thank you for your time...