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View Full Version : Orange County Sheriff Sandra Hutchens Criticized Over Revocation of Hundreds of CCWs


JasonDavis
11-17-2008, 4:30 PM
Recently, Orange County Sheriff Sandra Hutchens has been criticized over the revocation of hundreds of Carry Concealed Weapons (CCW) permits for allegedly lacking “good cause.” These CCWs were issued to persons who were deemed by the prior sheriff, Mike Corona, to have “good cause.” According to the Sheriff Hutchens, these revocations are based upon “new policies” that she has implemented for the issuance and maintenance of CCW licenses. Sheriff Hutchens has said that her new policy is designed to prevent abuse of discretion for political purposes, stating that there was a perception that concealed weapons permits were being issued in exchange for support in the previous administration. Believing the new CCW policy to be too restrictive, the National Rifle Association, by way of its California Counsel - Chuck Michel of the law firm Trutanich – Michel, LLP, has provided the Orange County Board of Supervisors with an opinion letter regarding the broad authority that Sheriff Hutchens has with regard to issuing CCW permits. This memorandum of law includes and references the 1979 Attorney General Opinion that she relied upon in implementing the new CCW policy.

Additionally, the Orange County Board of Supervisors is meeting on November 18, 2008 to discuss the Sheriff’s new CCW issuance policy. To assist the Sheriff in application of the CCW laws, the National Rifle Association provided the Orange County Board of Supervisors with a proposed resolution concerning CCWs within the County that provides for a standardized and equitable application of the laws. Each of these documents are available at CalGunLaws.com (http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/articles-memoranda-and-commentary/78-commentary/578-orange-county-sheriff-sandra-hutchens-criticized-over-revocation-of-hundreds-of-carry-concealed-weapons-ccw-permits.html).

Doheny
11-17-2008, 5:06 PM
I only skimmed the docs, but for those of us in Orange County familiar with the system, does this get us any closer to what used to be "Transportation of Valuables" (firearms transportation by a shooter, not a merchant) or heaven forbid, a GC of "Personal Protection"?



.

RomanDad
11-17-2008, 6:01 PM
I only skimmed the docs, but for those of us in Orange County familiar with the system, does this get us any closer to what used to be "Transportation of Valuables" (firearms transportation by a shooter, not a merchant) or heaven forbid, a GC of "Personal Protection"?



.

If youre at the meeting tomorrow, find me.... I can tell you whats up then.

Librarian
11-17-2008, 6:01 PM
Perhaps I missed it, but I did not seem to see addressed the authority to revoke an existing permit without any disqualifying acts on the part of the holders. Is there such authority in law?

Casual Observer
11-17-2008, 6:11 PM
Perhaps I missed it, but I did not seem to see addressed the authority to revoke an existing permit without any disqualifying acts on the part of the holders. Is there such authority in law?

The problem with the law is that it is extremely vague and wide open giving the county Sheriff almost complete control over CCWs. New sheriff = new policy. If that means revoking every CCW in the county and making everyone re-apply to meet the new standard, they sheriff can do that. There's nothing in the law that says she can't.

It's happened before in California, and it will happen again until the law changes.

RomanDad
11-17-2008, 7:07 PM
Perhaps I missed it, but I did not seem to see addressed the authority to revoke an existing permit without any disqualifying acts on the part of the holders. Is there such authority in law?

No.... There is not.... Its completely unlawful.

12050 (f) (4) (B) reads as follows: “If the licence is one to carry a concealed pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, then it may not be revoked solely because the licensee changes his place of residence to another county if the licencee has not breached any conditions or restrictions set forth in the license or has not fallen into a prohibited class described in section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions code.”

Thus there are six specific reasons per statute that a sheriff can revoke a CCW permit if the licensee moves from the county:

1. A breach of a condition set forth in the license (example: carrying a concealed weapon in a bar is a breach of a condition of the license and justifies revocation.)

2. A breach of a restriction set forth in the license (example: the license is specifically restricted to certain hours and the licensee is caught carrying it outside those hours justifies a revocation.)

3. Becoming a “prohibited person” under Penal Code section 12021 (conviction of a felony or becoming addicted to drugs or multiple convictions of brandishing a firearm).

4. Becoming a “prohibited person” under Penal Code section 12021.1 (conviction of murder or manslaughter, mayhem, rape, assault, and other violent felonies).

5. Becoming a “prohibited person” under Welfare & Institutions Code section 8100 (Treated for mental illness).

6. Becoming a “prohibited person” under Welfare & Institutions Code section 8103 (adjudicated insane).


Thus she cant revoke if you MOVE from her county unless one of those 6 specific items has happened, so how can she revoke if you STAY in the county and one of those six specific items hasn't happened?

The licenses have a TERM. They are valid for that term barring one of those six events happening.

yellowfin
11-17-2008, 8:48 PM
So given that this is unlawful, can any effective punitive measures be leveled at Hutchens? If you and I can get jailed for having a spring inside a bent piece of metal, no way should she get off without some kind of pain.

RomanDad
11-17-2008, 8:59 PM
So given that this is unlawful, can any effective punitive measures be leveled at Hutchens? If you and I can get jailed for having a spring inside a bent piece of metal, no way should she get off without some kind of pain.

One step at a time.

Casual Observer
11-17-2008, 9:13 PM
No.... There is not.... Its completely unlawful.

12050 (f) (4) (B) reads as follows: “If the licence is one to carry a concealed pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, then it may not be revoked solely because the licensee changes his place of residence to another county if the licencee has not breached any conditions or restrictions set forth in the license or has not fallen into a prohibited class described in section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions code.”

Thus there are six specific reasons per statute that a sheriff can revoke a CCW permit if the licensee moves from the county:

1. A breach of a condition set forth in the license (example: carrying a concealed weapon in a bar is a breach of a condition of the license and justifies revocation.)

2. A breach of a restriction set forth in the license (example: the license is specifically restricted to certain hours and the licensee is caught carrying it outside those hours justifies a revocation.)

3. Becoming a “prohibited person” under Penal Code section 12021 (conviction of a felony or becoming addicted to drugs or multiple convictions of brandishing a firearm).

4. Becoming a “prohibited person” under Penal Code section 12021.1 (conviction of murder or manslaughter, mayhem, rape, assault, and other violent felonies).

5. Becoming a “prohibited person” under Welfare & Institutions Code section 8100 (Treated for mental illness).

6. Becoming a “prohibited person” under Welfare & Institutions Code section 8103 (adjudicated insane).


Thus she cant revoke if you MOVE from her county unless one of those 6 specific items has happened, so how can she revoke if you STAY in the county and one of those six specific items hasn't happened?

The licenses have a TERM. They are valid for that term barring one of those six events happening.

Roman, I agree with you (and you know I do) but I read the above in regards from moving from one county (say, a pro-CCW one) to another county (an anti-CCW) is not a basis for revoking a CCW.

However, what's to stop Hutchens from raising the standard and then retroactively applying that standard to all permits already issued?

RomanDad
11-17-2008, 9:19 PM
Roman, I agree with you (and you know I do) but I read the above in regards from moving from one county (say, a pro-CCW one) to another county (an anti-CCW) is not a basis for revoking a CCW.

However, what's to stop Hutchens from raising the standard and then retroactively applying that standard to all permits already issued?

If she cant revoke if they MOVE, how can she revoke if they DON'T MOVE? Its an absurdity.

The standard for revocation is the same- CAUSE. 6 specific reasons.

Casual Observer
11-17-2008, 11:33 PM
If she cant revoke if they MOVE, how can she revoke if they DON'T MOVE? Its an absurdity.

The standard for revocation is the same- CAUSE. 6 specific reasons.

That's logical, but unfortunately, little about her administration has been logical to me.

Hopefully she will get a rude awakening tomorrow morning.