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harley66
11-13-2008, 10:02 PM
Got into a little debate today at a local gun store, came home and have been trying to find info relating to the old debate - Fixed mag and tool - been on the CA/DOJ web page and all I can find is

Magazine, detachable - An ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither
disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered
a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc
clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.



Does anyone have the printed info on what DOJ is saying about the use of a 'tool' and the mag on the OLL AR's?? Thanks,,

Librarian
11-13-2008, 10:47 PM
Got into a little debate today at a local gun store, came home and have been trying to find info relating to the old debate - Fixed mag and tool - been on the CA/DOJ web page and all I can find is

[re-formatted - L]
Magazine, detachable -
An ammunition feeding device
that can be removed readily from the firearm
with
neither disassembly of the firearm action
nor use of a tool being required.

A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool.

Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

Does anyone have the printed info on what DOJ is saying about the use of a 'tool' and the mag on the OLL AR's?? Thanks,,
What more do you need?

A magazine IS "detachable"
if it can be removed without disassembling the action
or
if it can be removed without using a tool.

Therefore, a magazine is NOT "detachable" if it requires a tool to remove.

Only "detachable" magazines make an OLL with other features - pistol grip, most prominently - into an aw (remembering to use 10-round magazines)12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the followingA device such as a Bullet Button makes using a tool a requirement to remove a magazine; such a modified lower no longer "has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine".

NiteQwill
11-13-2008, 10:50 PM
It seems to me you answered your own question :confused:

DedEye
11-14-2008, 1:30 AM
Got into a little debate today at a local gun store, came home and have been trying to find info relating to the old debate - Fixed mag and tool - been on the CA/DOJ web page and all I can find is

Magazine, detachable - An ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither
disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered
a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc
clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.



Does anyone have the printed info on what DOJ is saying about the use of a 'tool' and the mag on the OLL AR's?? Thanks,,

Are you looking for a citation in the Penal Code or other Code book? The relevant section is 11CCR5469.

harley66
11-14-2008, 12:40 PM
most of my problem is NOT understanding the legal mumbo/jumbo.... Thanks,,,

oddball
11-14-2008, 1:20 PM
Using a bullet button or B-15 makes a magazine not fall under the "detachable" definition. It becomes "un-detachable" because the need for a tool on the bullet button or B-15.