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PistolPete75
11-12-2008, 8:32 PM
Anyone know any good high power forums for good information, classified ads on used parts, etc?

I'm getting my high power match rifle put together. Last piece of the puzzle are sights. Looking for something used if possible. Warner or Phoenix are what I'm looking for.

6BR here I come!

BlueOvalBruin
11-12-2008, 8:47 PM
I like www.nationalmatch.us, I'm a noob to the sport and I've found some good info there. I'm also building a match rifle and sights are also my last step. When you finally buy something, post a review here.

PistolPete75
11-12-2008, 9:57 PM
thanks for the info! I will most definitely post a review.

I'll be going with the Eliseo 5R chasis, 700 action, and Kreiger 1:7.5 twist barrel chambered in 6mmBR. I'll be shooting 115 dtacs. Sights will be Warner or Phoenix.

ocabj
11-13-2008, 8:30 AM
I suggest you get David Tubb's two DVD set, The Art and Technique of the Modern Match Rifle.

There's a trailer/preview of it here:
DLXc4sK8fOI

It specifically goes over a lot of the Tubb 2000, but the methods he discusses about how to adjust the rifle to your body and position, specifically without sights on the gun, is extremely valuable.

ocabj
11-13-2008, 8:53 AM
BTW: It's probably a great time to order your shooting coat from Creedmoor. They have a $50 holiday discount on hardback coats through January.

PistolPete75
11-13-2008, 9:11 AM
nice. you have any suggestions on spotting scopes?

ocabj
11-13-2008, 9:59 AM
Kowa 621, 771, or 821 with the LER and angled body.

Creedmoor Big Blue or Ray-Vin stand.

You can get away with a generic scope with enough clarity to spot the scoring disc and shot spotter for your first few matches. But you'll eventually want something good enough to read mirage. And an angled body is definitely something you'll want for position shooting.

PistolPete75
11-13-2008, 12:08 PM
hmmm. food for thought. is there a spotting scope with an angeled body like the howa that has a mildot recticle or moa recticle? i know zeiss makes one, is there an alternative scope? would be nice to spot my own misses and adjust based on the recticle and reading the mirage. it's my tactical twist to high power shooting.

ocabj
11-13-2008, 7:11 PM
I haven't heard of any spotting scope such as described.

PistolPete75
11-13-2008, 9:12 PM
It'll be nice though. I'll be using 1/4 moa adjustments on the iron,so a moa based recticle would be just kick arse.

ocabj
11-13-2008, 9:25 PM
I'm not sure what you need the reticle for, though. The size of the scoring rings on High Power targets are standardized and known, and basically uniform MOA-wise across all distances.

So if you're hitting the edge of the 10-ring or the 9-ring at the 200, 300, or 600. You know you have to adjust at most 1MOA to center it up in the X-ring.

The 600 yard MR-1 target has diameters of 6", 12", 18", and 24" for the X-ring, 10-ring, 9-ring, and 8-ring, respectively. That's basically 1MOA, 2MOA, 3MOA, and 4MOA, respectively.

FYI: Some people are going to quote the half-minute rule. It's a rule out of one of Jim Owens' books. It basically says, that the edge of the 10-ring to the center X is half a minute (not a full minute). According to the actual true dimensions, it *is* 1MOA, but the Owens rule is based on the concept of the cone of fire and how most people aren't holding tight enough percentage wise to go by the actual target dimensions. For beginners, I think this is a sound rule. But eventually, you start holding hard enough where the half-minute rule stops working for you because the amount of adjustment you make is going to be less than what you need simply because you're cone of fire has shrunk considerably because your hold is so much better.

PistolPete75
11-13-2008, 9:33 PM
Geez, you got to give me more pointers. I'm used to shooting various distances instead of fixed distances.

How big are the targets at 200, 300, and 600?

ocabj
11-13-2008, 9:41 PM
Copy pasted out of the NRA HP rulebook.

No. SR - Military "Target, Rifle, Competition, Short Range." (200 yard)
Aiming Black (inches) Aiming Black (inches)
High Power Rifle
X ring . . . . . . . . 3.00
10 ring . . . . . . . . 7.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . 13.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . . . 19.00
7 ring . . . . . . . . . . 25.00
6 ring . . . . . . . . . . 31.00
5 ring . . . . . . . . . . 37.00

NRA No. SR-3 - Enlarged aiming black for use in 300-yard rapid fire matches only. Scoring rings the same as the SR target, with the 8-ring in the aiming black.
Aiming Black (inches) Aiming Black (inches)
X ring . . . . . . . . . 3.00
10 ring . . . . . . . . . 7.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . . 13.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . . 19.00
7 ring . . . . . . . . . 25.00
6 ring . . . . . . . . . 31.00
5 ring . . . . . . . . . 37.00

No. MR-65 "Target, Rifle, Competition Mid-Range." Used in 500-yard matches only.
Aiming Black (inches) Aiming Black (inches)
X ring . . . . . . . . 5.00
10 ring . . . . . . . 10.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . 15.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . 20.00
7 ring . . . . . . . 25.00
6 ring . . . . . . . 30.00
5 ring . . . . . . . . . . 36.00

MR-1 target - "Target, Rifle, Competition Mid-Range." Used in 600-yard matches only.
Aiming Black (inches) Aiming Black (inches)
X ring . . . . . . . . 6.00
10 ring . . . . . . . 12.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . 18.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . 24.00
7 ring . . . . . . . . 36.00
6 ring . . . . . . . . . . 48.00
5 ring . . . . . . . . . . 60.00

NRA No. LR -
Aiming Black (inches)
X ring . . . . . . . 10.00
10 ring . . . . . . . 20.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . 30.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . 44.00
7 ring . . . . . . . . . . 60.00
6 area . . . 72x72 square

PistolPete75
11-13-2008, 9:44 PM
I have to admit, high power seems alot harder to shoot than precision rifle. No bipods, no bags, no highpower scopes and it's all mainly shot in unsupported positions. That's what is getting me interested in this discipline, the challenge.

Nice, I'm going to end up printing that chart out.

PistolPete75
11-13-2008, 9:49 PM
I hope to make Marksman or Marksman 1st Class by the end of next year.

ocabj
11-14-2008, 7:58 PM
600 yard target photo:

http://photography.ocabj.com/img/v4/p1038096449-4.jpg

Friend pointing at X-ring for scale. Nice brand new target, too.