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xLusi0n
11-12-2008, 1:26 PM
OK, so I understand that a .22lr rifle is not subject to CA AW laws. My question is, if I have a 5.56mm marked lower and a 5.56 mm upper (not a dedicated .22lr upper. But I have the .22lr conversion bolt in it...am I in a gray area? Especially if I have other AR-15s (configured legally for CA) in the same house...can I get in trouble for constructive possesion? Obvioulsy, having a dedicated .22lr and .22lr marked lower will make it more clear...

ohsmily
11-12-2008, 2:11 PM
OK, so I understand that a .22lr rifle is not subject to CA AW laws.

That isn't entirely true. You still have to contend with some provisions such as a fixed magazine that has a capacity greater than 10 rounds. That would be an assault weapon regardless of caliber unless it is a tube fed 22LR or tube fed lever gun (of any caliber). There are also still length requirements which on 22LR coincide with federal length requirements for both barrel and overall length (16" and 26" respectively).

With regard to your question, I would argue that it is legal to have evil features while running a 22 conversion in an AR. Having said that, I personally would prefer to have a dedicated 22 upper (I don't care what the lower is marked) if I am going to run evil features and a detachable magazine.

DedEye
11-12-2008, 3:49 PM
That isn't entirely true. You still have to contend with some provisions such as a fixed magazine that has a capacity greater than 10 rounds. That would be an assault weapon regardless of caliber unless it is a tube fed 22LR or tube fed lever gun (of any caliber).

With regard to your question, I would argue that it is legal to have evil features while running a 22 conversion in an AR. Having said that, I personally would prefer to have a dedicated 22 upper (I don't care what the lower is marked) if I am going to run evil features and a detachable magazine.

A rare Ohsmily fail. PC12276.1(a)(2) lists semi-automatic, centerfire rifles. A fixed mag rimfire rifle with a capacity greater than 10 rounds would appear to be legal.

xLusi0n
11-13-2008, 6:24 AM
So...if I don't want to fix the mag at all...

tetris
11-13-2008, 7:33 AM
Why is your lower marked with caliber? Isn't that usually done on the barrel in order to eliminate possible sources of confusion between similar calibers/loads, like .22, .223 and 5.56?

sorensen440
11-13-2008, 7:36 AM
you can safely own both in the same house just dont assemble them illegaly

ohsmily
11-13-2008, 8:00 AM
A rare Ohsmily fail. PC12276.1(a)(2) lists semi-automatic, centerfire rifles. A fixed mag rimfire rifle with a capacity greater than 10 rounds would appear to be legal.

Bah, doesn't have to be tube fed on a rimfire. Any rimfire fixed mag or any tube fed lever gun.

Btw, you fail for failing me.... ;)

Ironchef
11-13-2008, 9:26 AM
As for the 22lr ceiner kit, I would bet that a leo and DA would not consider it a .22lr even though they couldn't get a .223 cartridge to fit in the chamber so while technically it's legal (to not have a mag lock because it's not a centerfire), you'll go the route of $40k legal fees to maybe prove your innocence.

Of course the wise thing to do is to just put a bullet button on so you'll get a different and more manageable can of worms to give you a better fighting chance and not face a courtroom.

That's one reason i think it's good ot have the "multi" marking (for caliber) like they have on the spikes..that way it's neutral, coincides with your story of using a 22lr..nobody's going to know if your barrel is 223/5.56 or 22lr, and I doubt any leos know their 223 bolts vs. a 22lr bolt..and of course you have the magazine that could only allow a 22lr. Or, if you don't want to ever use a 223 upper, then yes, get that 22lr marked lower.

xLusi0n
11-13-2008, 9:52 AM
So, to be safe: .22lr marked upper (on barrel), .22lr marked lower and no spare parts layinga round :)

DedEye
11-13-2008, 2:30 PM
So, to be safe: .22lr marked upper (on barrel), .22lr marked lower and no spare parts layinga round :)

NO! NO, NO, NO! :banghead::banghead::banghead:

The lower markings DON'T MATTER. You don't need to have a .22 marked lower, the markings can be whatever the hell you want them to be. You can have it marked ".50BMG (Babykilling Machine Gun)" for all the law matters.

There is NO constructive possession for AWs in California, you can have all the spare parts you want.

The barrel doesn't need to be marked .22LR either. If it's a dedicated .22 upper, it's a dedicated .22 upper and markings aren't required.

On the other hand, if it's actually a 5.56mm/.223 upper with a conversion kit, it is PROBABLY fine to use without a mag lock. THIS is the area where the law might not be clear and caution is advised. Personally, I would be comfortable using a .223 rifle with a .22 conversion kit installed with evil features and no mag lock. Other people are more paranoid than I am (sometimes rightfully so), but considering that with the conversion kit the rifle is incapable of chambering and firing .223, I'd feel fine. Before you uninstall the conversion kit in this scenario, you would have to remove evil features or install a mag lock first, otherwise you WOULD be manufacturing an AW.

Ironchef
11-13-2008, 2:36 PM
Eye,
I think he was just asking what was "safe" not "legal."

Before you uninstall the conversion kit in this scenario, you would have to remove evil features or install a mag lock first, otherwise you WOULD be manufacturing an AW.


Only if he kept the upper on. If he had just a lower with a ceiner kit in it and he took it out (the upper would be off already) putting back the .223 bcg, there would be no AW configuration.

DedEye
11-13-2008, 2:54 PM
Eye,
I think he was just asking what was "safe" not "legal."



Only if he kept the upper on. If he had just a lower with a ceiner kit in it and he took it out (the upper would be off already) putting back the .223 bcg, there would be no AW configuration.

Agreed.

If he left the pivot pin connected between the lower and upper when swapping the .22 conversion kit and the .223 BCG and no mag lock was installed on the lower, the rifle would become an AW for as long as the .22 conversion kit and mag lock are uninstalled.

Ironchef
11-13-2008, 4:05 PM
me personally,i would never run a conversion kit it a 223 upper and evil features.IMHO most cops would arrest you and let the da sort it out.i currently run a dedicated upper on a 556 lower.i don't feel comfortable with that so i just got a spikes 22lr lower.may be legal but not for me.just my two cents.

True, and they don't have to be firearms experts (and i'm sure it's safe to say 99.99% aren't) to eyeball it and label it "AW" and let the DA sort it out.

Sadly, the spike's dedicated upper is $600+/- and the ceiner 22lr kit is only about $150. Save money and gamble with the law, or pay $600 and smack down on the 12276!