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goober
11-09-2008, 5:40 PM
There is an idea germinating over at Arfcom (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=137&t=785242&page=1) for a million-man march-style political action in support of 2A rights & against the probable coming AWB.
Hopefully a massive peaceful event and public statement involving non-carrying participants marching on DC will come of this. Spread the word!

Anthonysmanifesto
11-09-2008, 5:41 PM
please make it stop!

trashman
11-09-2008, 5:57 PM
Good grief. From Chapter 1 on "How Not to Work Capitol Hill".

--Neill

sorensen440
11-09-2008, 6:01 PM
um this is really really a bad idea
Jamming it down there throat in that way will only result in more laws to prevent it from happening again...

Matt C
11-09-2008, 6:02 PM
"Are you bringing any guns"
"Of course not."
"Then you're not changing anything."

hoffmang
11-09-2008, 6:02 PM
Wouldn't it be cooler and more fun to have a massive party after the Nordyke ruling is released?

-Gene

Matt C
11-09-2008, 6:03 PM
Wouldn't it be cooler and more fun to have a massive party after the Nordyke ruling is released?

-Gene

Yes. I promise not to march on DC if you invite me.

Hopi
11-09-2008, 6:07 PM
The 28 people that will actually show up should just pool their money and send it to the NRA...

hoffmang
11-09-2008, 6:14 PM
Yes. I promise not to march on DC if you invite me.

You've been invited to every other event. You shouldn't expect that to end.

-Gene

Window_Seat
11-09-2008, 6:18 PM
CMIIW, but is this not the only way we are going to have our voices heard? Sure, letter writing, calling, faxing, joining the NRA, GOA, etc. is good & all, but we have a responsibility to be pro-active in what we have a passion for, and if it means going on a MGO march, then let's make it so. If it happens, and given enough time to plan a trip, I'm going.

Erik.

Experimentalist
11-09-2008, 6:20 PM
Wouldn't it be cooler and more fun to have a massive party after the Nordyke ruling is released?

-Gene

Sounds like fun. The BWO / Milpitas lower emancipation dinner was fun, I'd like to do something like that again.

And if Nordyke passes, I'll probably bring a designated driver or hire a taxi. :D

hoffmang
11-09-2008, 6:24 PM
CMIIW, but is this not the only way we are going to have our voices heard? Sure, letter writing, calling, faxing, joining the NRA, GOA, etc. is good & all, but we have a responsibility to be pro-active in what we have a passion for, and if it means going on a MGO march, then let's make it so. If it happens, and given enough time to plan a trip, I'm going.


Proactive things you can do that will actually help:

1. Take an anti or undecided shooting.
2. Donate to any of the various pro-gun organizations.
3. Write a well spoken letter to the editor about the good things firearms do in society.
4. Schedule a meeting with your local congressman and actually show up and talk to him about all the reasons he should either outright support or be careful opposing gun rights.
5. Answer the calls for support for various pro-gun candidates here and on other state's boards and forums.
6. Actually apply for a CCW in your county.
7. Get an out of state CCW from Utah and or Florida to support those who support everyone.
8. Call one of the Nordyke anti amici and ask difficult questions.
9. Come up with something creative I haven't listed here but that isn't acting afraid.

We're winning at gun rights. Don't let your personal politics and fear mongering get you doing something not useful for our side.

-Gene

HowardW56
11-09-2008, 6:31 PM
Yes. I promise not to march on DC if you invite me.

DID SOMEONE SAY PARTY..... :party:

Window_Seat
11-09-2008, 7:18 PM
Proactive things you can do that will actually help:

1. Take an anti or undecided shooting.
2. Donate to any of the various pro-gun organizations.
3. Write a well spoken letter to the editor about the good things firearms do in society.
4. Schedule a meeting with your local congressman and actually show up and talk to him about all the reasons he should either outright support or be careful opposing gun rights.
5. Answer the calls for support for various pro-gun candidates here and on other state's boards and forums.
6. Actually apply for a CCW in your county.
7. Get an out of state CCW from Utah and or Florida to support those who support everyone.
8. Call one of the Nordyke anti amici and ask difficult questions.
9. Come up with something creative I haven't listed here but that isn't acting afraid.

We're winning at gun rights. Don't let your personal politics and fear mongering get you doing something not useful for our side.

-Gene

:iagree:completely, but as for #4, what if Fortney "Pete" Stark is your local congressman?:shrug::cuss:

Erik; cautiously optimistic.

Trendkill
11-09-2008, 7:49 PM
:iagree:completely, but as for #4, what if Fortney "Pete" Stark is your local congressman?:shrug::cuss:

Erik; cautiously optimistic.

Or if your Mayor's name happens to be Gavin.

ptoguy2002
11-09-2008, 8:47 PM
Wouldn't it be cooler and more fun to have a massive party after the Nordyke ruling is released?

-Gene

"Massive" party at Gene's house !!
The Kegs are in the living room and the booze is in the dining room!!

hoffmang
11-09-2008, 8:51 PM
"Massive" party at Gene's house !!
The Kegs are in the living room and the booze is in the dining room!!

You have no idea how accurate that description is.

-Gene

trashman
11-09-2008, 9:08 PM
Proactive things you can do that will actually help:

1. Take an anti or undecided shooting.

This is on the money, but I think it might be too broad.

We need to take a close look at the youth (18-29) vote in the last election: the Republicans lost it 2-to-1 not just in the Presidential race but also in the House races nationwide. That's the hill gun owners need to climb, and fast.

Keep in mind many of these are new voters, too. Gotta make an impression on as many as you can before 2010.

So I would amplify Gene's #1 item and say -- find an anti between the ages of 18-29 and take them shooting! And do it soon!

--Neill

nick
11-09-2008, 9:20 PM
I'm an anti of about that age. Who's taking me shooting? :)

oaklander
11-09-2008, 9:29 PM
Ack!!!

"Conservative" causes should NEVER do large public protests. They always get roasted in the media. It's like a law of nature.

goober
11-09-2008, 10:04 PM
Well, with few exceptions, that's a pretty resounding "nay" on the idea...
Have to admit I'm surprised, but I respect your expertise and opinion, Gene, and many other folks here seem to agree with your stance on this.
I don't know if I feel as secure about the way things are headed as you do, but again I realize that you are very well versed in these areas.
Anyway, I agree that much of the recent hysteria is just that... And can see how, if done wrong, a march or other political action could harm rather than help. But I do think that when the time comes we need to speak out loudly, clearly, and concisely. I do not agree that public political action belongs to or is the domain of any particular group or viewpoint, as oaklander stated. We can use it too, if needed, as long as it is done right.

As for the helpful activities you listed, 1, 2, 3, & 5 DONE. 7 in progress, 6 to follow. Guess that leaves 4, 8, and 9. I'll work on them.

And I'd love to be in on the Nordyke decision party :D



Proactive things you can do that will actually help:

1. Take an anti or undecided shooting.
2. Donate to any of the various pro-gun organizations.
3. Write a well spoken letter to the editor about the good things firearms do in society.
4. Schedule a meeting with your local congressman and actually show up and talk to him about all the reasons he should either outright support or be careful opposing gun rights.
5. Answer the calls for support for various pro-gun candidates here and on other state's boards and forums.
6. Actually apply for a CCW in your county.
7. Get an out of state CCW from Utah and or Florida to support those who support everyone.
8. Call one of the Nordyke anti amici and ask difficult questions.
9. Come up with something creative I haven't listed here but that isn't acting afraid.

We're winning at gun rights. Don't let your personal politics and fear mongering get you doing something not useful for our side.

-Gene

hoffmang
11-09-2008, 10:06 PM
I don't know if I feel as secure about the way things are headed as you do, but again I realize that you are very well versed in these areas.

Reasonable people can disagree about the macro environment. However, reasonable people don't disagree that public marches to support gun rights are a bad idea for now.

-Gene

Matt C
11-09-2008, 10:11 PM
Well, with few exceptions, that's a pretty resounding "nay" on the idea...
Have to admit I'm surprised, but I respect your expertise and opinion, Gene, and many other folks here seem to agree with your stance on this.
I don't know if I feel as secure about the way things are headed as you do, but again I realize that you are very well versed in these areas.
Anyway, I agree that much of the recent hysteria is just that... And can see how, if done wrong, a march or other political action could harm rather than help. But I do think that when the time comes we need to speak out loudly, clearly, and concisely. I do not agree that public political action belongs to or is the domain of any particular group or viewpoint, as oaklander stated. We can use it too, if needed, as long as it is done right.


There really is NO good at all that can come of such an unarmed march. If a million people each convinced 5 others to join the NRA all in one week, instead of going all the way to DC for a protest, the results would be MUCH MUCH MUCH better for our side.

nicki
11-09-2008, 11:06 PM
I guess I will play a devil's advocate here.

I don't expect too many of us would go to Washington for a one day rally, however it would be beneficial to send representatives to the rally if it was well planned.

We are talking about a 10 to 12 hour one day commitment. If anyone on the east coast claims they support gun rights, but finds excuses not to attend, well, they aren't that committed.

There are probably 20 million people who live within a 3 hour drive to Wash DC

If we expand things to a 4 hour drive, we probably are looking at 30 million people.

If we say 8 hour drive, we probably are looking at 100 million people. Imagine busing in all those people from western PA who cling to their Bibles and guns.

The audience would be probably be composed of people from primarily the east coast, but it would give a opportunity for groups from across the country to speak to large numbers of people and put out websites.

Done right, the rally should be recorded and put on the internet, this would mean the media couldn't just black it out like it never happened.

The 1994 AW bill passed by 1 vote in the house. Prior to 1994, most people were not on the internet.

Hell, Obama says he respects the 2nd amendment. We could give him a big opportunity to come out and speak to a large group that he isn't going to take our AW's or our CCW permits away.

A no show by Obama if such a rally was put together would speak louder than his words.

An event like this done right would be historical.

Every person who went to the Million Man March looks at it as an event in their lives.

Every person who went to "Woodstock" in 1969 looks at it as an event in their lives.

Americans are stocking up on guns, Obama definitely has stimulated the economy.

Nicki

nicki
11-09-2008, 11:41 PM
heck, id be happy if all the forums could commit to simply walking some precincts during an election.

then the politicians would remember you.

If we grew enough in size so that we could have 2 to 3 committed gun rights people in precincts to keep contact with voters not just for elections, but between elections would be valuable.

For what it is worth, the idea is much more popular over at AR15.com. Only a few people are against the idea.

Nicki

CCWFacts
11-10-2008, 6:50 PM
Wouldn't it be cooler and more fun to have a massive party after the Nordyke ruling is released?

Yes!

And wouldn't it be even more massively cool to try out a few other things:


Have NRA members in California do an Obama-style campaign to recruit more members to build a ground team
Get gun shops in this state to participate in some kind of program to encourage NRA membership for buyers, like half off membership, or even better, "we only do business with NRA members"
Talk one-on-one with city council members and ask them to put CCW reform on the agenda


These marches are really bad ideas. I hope this thing doesn't happen. Rather than a million marchers, just having people join the NRA and vote out any reps who flirt with AWB II.

JohnJW
11-10-2008, 7:35 PM
Why not have localized rally in larger cities in addition to the DC rally. DC is not exactly within driving distance.

CCWFacts
11-10-2008, 8:17 PM
Hell, Obama says he respects the 2nd amendment. We could give him a big opportunity to come out and speak to a large group that he isn't going to take our AW's or our CCW permits away.

He's already on record that he wants to take our AWs and CCWs away. If he could get enough Blue Dogs to vote for him, he'll do it. I don't think he can get enough Blue Dog votes though.

Steyr_223
11-10-2008, 8:30 PM
http://www.iveknownrivers.org/stories/vol_002/panthermania-2006-04-13/beeheadline.jpg
http://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/black_panters_wa.jpg
http://courses.csusm.edu/hist347as/vc/vc40054.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2122/2180317992_df993c89a4.jpg?v=0

1859sharps
11-10-2008, 8:34 PM
Ack!!!

"Conservative" causes should NEVER do large public protests. They always get roasted in the media. It's like a law of nature.

not just that, but even for Politically Correct causes, marches/protests have almost ZERO value anymore.

I get the concept, make our voices heard. But it's a wast of time and money to try and put together a march for gun rights.

Heck, in my opinion any march for any cause is a wast of time. the value just isn't there anymore. its a WAY over used method of political activism. No one cares, no one pays attention to marches anymore.

#1 most effective thing you could do is turn a politically inactive gun owner into a politically active one. and get them to sign up with the NRA.

MT1
11-10-2008, 8:43 PM
Marches may have little to no effect on politicians, but they can have an effect on the people who see and hear about it... Those people vote.


That being said, I think it's a bad idea.

weezil_boi
11-10-2008, 8:58 PM
Proactive things you can do that will actually help:

1. Take an anti or undecided shooting.

...

-Gene

I like this one... but for those that want to do some "organizing" .. maybe organize an activity for friends, family, co workers where a few Calgunners can show up with em at a range and have a safe, informative and fun time.

I take my friends out and one by one, try to convince them that I am a firearms enthusiast... not a "Gun freak".

I have changed a few minds thus far, but maybe such an event would speed things up :) Some places ( Like Sac Valley shooting center) have BBQ / Picnic facilities too.

Im sure this has been done.

dw33b
11-10-2008, 9:13 PM
Anyone who signs up for this is likely to get killed in the process of being served a no knock warrant. :/

dwa
11-10-2008, 11:13 PM
:iagree:completely, but as for #4, what if Fortney "Pete" Stark is your local congressman?:shrug::cuss:

Erik; cautiously optimistic.

ahahha i know right. i think he 2A position was something like guns are bad umkay....

FreedomIsNotFree
11-10-2008, 11:48 PM
Well, obviously the bus is leaving the station with or without you. You can either get on the bus and try to help steer a particular course, or you can sit on the sidelines, watch and complain.

I recall there was initially much hesitation and some outright ridicule of those that chose to express their Open Carry rights here in CA. Now we have a memo circulating the State which very much supports the OC position from a legal standpoint and few could argue its been the foretold disaster.

CCWFacts
11-11-2008, 7:43 AM
not just that, but even for Politically Correct causes, marches/protests have almost ZERO value anymore.

I get the concept, make our voices heard. But it's a wast of time and money to try and put together a march for gun rights.

The people who are doing it these days are people who want the protest for the sake of having the protest. They are groups like World Can't Wait etc. They know they aren't going to make a political difference, but the leaders enjoy getting their people whipped up.

DedEye
11-11-2008, 7:55 AM
Yes!

And wouldn't it be even more massively cool to try out a few other things:


Have NRA members in California do an Obama-style campaign to recruit more members to build a ground team
Get gun shops in this state to participate in some kind of program to encourage NRA membership for buyers, like half off membership, or even better, "we only do business with NRA members"
Talk one-on-one with city council members and ask them to put CCW reform on the agenda


These marches are really bad ideas. I hope this thing doesn't happen. Rather than a million marchers, just having people join the NRA and vote out any reps who flirt with AWB II.

Not a bad idea, I gotta see what Bill's willing to do in that regard.

motorhead
11-11-2008, 8:12 AM
march is a bad idea on so many levels. potential to turn extremely ugly, google "bonus march". posse comitatus DOES NOT apply in d.c. .
frustration abounds and the chicken little syndrome is rife after the election. we must bear in mind, nearly half of the country is on our side. hellergives us leverage we lacked before. it's not all gloom and impending doom.

CCWFacts
11-11-2008, 8:47 AM
(re: NRA membership and gun shop transactions)

Not a bad idea, I gotta see what Bill's willing to do in that regard.

Cool!

This is probably too extreme to be practical, but ideally, gun shops shouldn't sell at all for people who are not NRA members. It should be, "show me your NRA membership, or we're adding $35 to your bill to cover it", just like people need to either show a handgun safety card, or pay the extra $25 to get one.

Especially here in California. We're really being hurt by all the California gun owners who are not members and who are not doing their fair share. It's like we, as NRA members, are helping them keep their guns, and they are not doing anything. It upsets me.

Somehow there needs to be an NRA program with California gun shops to strongly encourage all buyers to have NRA membership. Maybe not mandatory, but perhaps a membership discount plus a strong guilt trip. There should be some encouragement and preferential treatment for NRA members at gun shops. And FFLs should realize, without the NRA keeping guns legal, there wouldn't ben any FFLs in this state.

There are new gun owners in this state, including in the younger demographics, every day, but they are not getting on board with NRA membership. If we could somehow link NRA membership and becoming a gun owner, it would be a huge change for us here in CA.

DedEye
11-11-2008, 8:49 AM
Cool!

This is probably too extreme to be practical, but ideally, gun shops shouldn't sell at all for people who are not NRA members. It should be, "show me your NRA membership, or we're adding $35 to your bill to cover it", just like people need to either show a handgun safety card, or pay the extra $25 to get one.

Especially here in California. We're really being hurt by all the California gun owners who are not members and who are not doing their fair share. It's like we, as NRA members, are helping them keep their guns, and they are not doing anything. It upsets me.

Somehow there needs to be an NRA program with California gun shops to strongly encourage all buyers to have NRA membership. Maybe not mandatory, but perhaps a membership discount plus a strong guilt trip. There should be some encouragement and preferential treatment for NRA members at gun shops. And FFLs should realize, without the NRA keeping guns legal, there wouldn't ben any FFLs in this state.

There are new gun owners in this state, including in the younger demographics, every day, but they are not getting on board with NRA membership. If we could somehow link NRA membership and becoming a gun owner, it would be a huge change for us here in CA.

Hehe, he's certainly not going to stop doing business with non-NRA members, but I'm fairly certain he'll spring for discounts for NRA members :).

CCWFacts
11-11-2008, 9:06 AM
Hehe, he's certainly not going to stop doing business with non-NRA members, but I'm fairly certain he'll spring for discounts for NRA members :).

It doesn't even have to be a discount. In fact, simple financial incentives are often less powerful than non-financial incentives, especially things relating to social pressure ("everyone else is doing it") and status and social approval ("give a big cheer for the new member!").

Totally brainstorming here:


I know that gunshops are often crowded, especially lately. What about putting up a sign, and following a policy, that says, "NRA members will be helped first. New members come to the front of the line." To make this really effective, the store greeter should ask "if you're an NRA member, go to that (short) line. If you're a non-member, go to that line."
If there's a wait to get into the shooting range, what about a policy that NRA members go ahead of non-members? Again, it's a status thing, and may be more powerful than a simple financial incentive. To make this really work, there should be a visible indicator on the waiting list of who is and is not a member, so people can see that members are above non-members.
Of course, giving a discount on NRA membership, or a discount on purchases, will also help, in combination with the above


I believe that a simple discount for members, unless that discount is quite big, would not motivate people. The hard part is getting them to make the decision to become a member. If the person doesn't want to become a member, saving $10 isn't going to change his mind. But these non-financial motivators could help that person change his mind, which is why it's more important to come up with non-financial motivators to go with a discount.

jaymz
11-11-2008, 2:41 PM
Marching won't work. I know this may not be an apples to apples comparison, but look at all of the "no on prop 8" protestors that were out and about before and after the election. Didn't work for them - won't work for us.

JohnJW
11-11-2008, 3:55 PM
Marching won't work. I know this may not be an apples to apples comparison, but look at all of the "no on prop 8" protestors that were out and about before and after the election. Didn't work for them - won't work for us.

No on Prop 8 rally raises awareness for the LGBT community. As long if the rally are peaceful it will call attention and sympathy from the undecided to their concerns. If 2A community goes out and march at least it will put a human face on the 2A cause. Politicians will pay attention to any organization that can mobile and coordinated rally for a specific cause. Such rally can be turned into GOTV action on election day.

pnkssbtz
11-11-2008, 4:05 PM
What the heck are "Gun owners" doing organizing a march?

Don't they have jobs to go to and mouths to feed? Any "gun owner" that has the free time to go do some stupid million man march ain't the kind of responsible gun owner that should be representing us.

More like fringe nutcases that want to piss away the hard effort that the RESPONSIBLE and HARDWORKING gun owners have built up through the courts and community action by invoking a knee-jerk response from pissing people off.

Gator Monroe
11-11-2008, 4:10 PM
:eek:Not a bad idea, I gotta see what Bill's willing to do in that regard.

And encourage customers to join/switch to the GOP and allow a registration table to be set up in house ?:)

Glock22Fan
11-11-2008, 4:18 PM
Going on a march seems to drag even otherwise intelligent people down to the level of morons. "What do we want! We want it NOW!' and similar mindless chants. Add a few supermorons willing to drool and pick their noses while being interviewed by unsympathetic reporters and you have a recipe for a P.R. disaster.

And that's just the marches where I have sympathy for the views being expressed. You should hear me on the ones I oppose!

JohnJW
11-11-2008, 4:36 PM
Going on a march seems to drag even otherwise intelligent people down to the level of morons. "What do we want! We want it NOW!' and similar mindless chants. Add a few supermorons willing to drool and pick their noses while being interviewed by unsympathetic reporters and you have a recipe for a P.R. disaster.

And that's just the marches where I have sympathy for the views being expressed. You should hear me on the ones I oppose!


I've been to a few rallies and I'm the not chanting, singing, or verbally/physically expressive type. I am just another body to be counted. Grass root organization has gotten quite sophisticated and media savvy these days. PR is usually handled before hand with known media contacts before an event starts.

Not all rallies has to be noisy and obnoxious. It can be as simple as a few hundred people gathering for a press conference. The key is to attract media exposure and getting your message out.

1859sharps
11-11-2008, 4:38 PM
Well, obviously the bus is leaving the station with or without you. You can either get on the bus and try to help steer a particular course, or you can sit on the sidelines, watch and complain.


do disagreeing with a bad idea means you are sitting on the sidelines? :rolleyes:

the one and ONLY way a march will get ANY attention these days is if it turns ugly. the cops have to come out in riot gear and chase everyone away and make mass arrests.

IS THAT really the image you want associated with the 2nd amendment and gun owners.

from time to time doing nothing is better then doing anything. this is one of those times.

nick
11-11-2008, 5:16 PM
http://www.iveknownrivers.org/stories/vol_002/panthermania-2006-04-13/beeheadline.jpg
http://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/black_panters_wa.jpg
http://courses.csusm.edu/hist347as/vc/vc40054.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2122/2180317992_df993c89a4.jpg?v=0

Yeah, and where're black rights now? This analogy doesn't work either way.

CCWFacts
11-11-2008, 5:23 PM
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/135-3575_2IMG.JPG

That's what protests look like. Of course the media doesn't show images like that at left-wing type protests, but they sure will find them from a gun rally, and they'll pick the worst.

By the way, that picture is from a site called www dot zombietime dot com . I'm not linking it because some of the images are so far out there, you might not even want to look at them, but if you want to see how loony left-wing protests are in the Bay Area, that's the site to look at.

I really hope that there's no gun rights rally. Or if there is, please let it be on a day that is pouring rain.

nick
11-11-2008, 6:15 PM
:eek:

And encourage customers to join/switch to the GOP and allow a registration table to be set up in house ?:)

That's one of the problems - gun rights shouldn't be tied to GOP or any party. We're talking a civil right here, not some issue from a party program.

56Chevy
11-11-2008, 10:16 PM
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/135-3575_2IMG.JPG

That's what protests look like. Of course the media doesn't show images like that at left-wing type protests, but they sure will find them from a gun rally, and they'll pick the worst.
Yeah, they might focus on something like this:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/elrojo14/scooter3.jpg

Sorry Wes, but it's the first thing I thought of. I promise to order AR parts to make up for it.;)

pullnshoot25
11-11-2008, 11:01 PM
Wouldn't it be cooler and more fun to have a massive party after the Nordyke ruling is released?

-Gene

Count me in!

odysseus
11-11-2008, 11:40 PM
ZOMBIETIME!!!!

http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/135-3575_2IMG.JPG

FreedomIsNotFree
11-12-2008, 3:16 AM
do disagreeing with a bad idea means you are sitting on the sidelines? :rolleyes:

the one and ONLY way a march will get ANY attention these days is if it turns ugly. the cops have to come out in riot gear and chase everyone away and make mass arrests.

IS THAT really the image you want associated with the 2nd amendment and gun owners.

from time to time doing nothing is better then doing anything. this is one of those times.

No, you can disagree all you want, but if you choose to not get involved, then yes, you are sitting on the sideline.

Gun owners aren't a monolithic group. Not everyone sees things the way you do and agrees with your course of action or lack thereof. Do you actually believe those that want to march on Washington D.C. are going to listen to you when you say its a bad idea? Who are you? What reputation do you have that would convince people?

My point is merely, if its going to happen, which isn't entirely known at this point, you have a choice to either get involved and help steer a more positive course, or not get involved and have ZERO to say on the matter.

Are you still rolling your eyes?

motorhead
11-12-2008, 8:32 AM
the no on 8 crowd is alienating the general public even more than they had before the election.
the nra was worthless and weak during a critical election. silence and appeasment don't fly with me. i don't want to hear about any mysterious, behind the scenes machinations they are planning.

CCWFacts
11-12-2008, 8:37 AM
the nra was worthless and weak during a critical election. silence and appeasment don't fly with me. i don't want to hear about any mysterious, behind the scenes machinations they are planning.

Dude, McCain didn't even campaign or run ads in California, because he (or any Republican) had no chance of winning it. Do you expect the NRA to run ads here when even the candidate himself is not?

California can't be won by a Republican and so they don't spend money or time here. That's why you didn't hear from the NRA.

Maybe if a lot more Californians would join the NRA it would give the Republicans some reason to think that they have a shot here.

Beelzy
11-12-2008, 8:55 AM
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/135-3575_2IMG.JPG

:eek: Look at her eyes!!!!!

Stay away from me you crazy lady!

Anthonysmanifesto
11-12-2008, 9:14 AM
Well, obviously the bus is leaving the station with or without you. You can either get on the bus and try to help steer a particular course, or you can sit on the sidelines, watch and complain.

I recall there was initially much hesitation and some outright ridicule of those that chose to express their Open Carry rights here in CA. Now we have a memo circulating the State which very much supports the OC position from a legal standpoint and few could argue its been the foretold disaster.

first off we were talking about a march.

Second off the next legislative cycle starts in 3 weeks.

CCWFacts
11-12-2008, 9:14 AM
:eek: Look at her eyes!!!!!

Stay away from me you crazy lady!

Yup, she is, literally, a googly-eyed communist zombie.

And she's crazy. And I hope she stays away from me. Far away. I would be happy to chip in for a one-way ticket for her to move to North Korea.

Hey here's a picture of Cindy Sheehan getting all smiley chatting with the leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party:
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/rcpleader.jpg

I hope they all move to North Korea.

Anyway, these two pictures (the crazy communist woman and Cindy Sheehan) show what marches look like, the extremists they attract, and how harmful they are to their own causes.

sigsauer887
11-12-2008, 9:26 AM
This would actually hurt us.

I remember watching the NEWS one time and they were covering a business convention with people of held FFL's and workers in the firearms industry. Almost 100% of people showed up dressed in business attire, while one D-Bag was wearing his orange flannel shirt with mossy oak pants. Guess who the news reporter interviewed? The redneck guy!

I am providing the above story because what would happen is this would get media coverage. They would then pick out the most retarded guy in the crowd and ask him questions like, "Why he/she is doing this?" They would respond back with something retarded like "I NEED AN AUTOMATIC RIFLE FOR HUNTING PURPOSES!"

We have better ways of protecting the 2nd amendment both State and Federal.

sigsauer887
11-12-2008, 9:29 AM
No, you can disagree all you want, but if you choose to not get involved, then yes, you are sitting on the sideline.

Gun owners aren't a monolithic group. Not everyone sees things the way you do and agrees with your course of action or lack thereof. Do you actually believe those that want to march on Washington D.C. are going to listen to you when you say its a bad idea? Who are you? What reputation do you have that would convince people?

My point is merely, if its going to happen, which isn't entirely known at this point, you have a choice to either get involved and help steer a more positive course, or not get involved and have ZERO to say on the matter.

Are you still rolling your eyes?


I don't necessarily think not protesting is a form of "sitting on the sidelines". If your an NRA member, donate money, write letters to your politicians and actually set up meetings with these guys, I think you've done a lot more good than marching.

sorensen440
11-12-2008, 9:41 AM
Dude, McCain didn't even campaign or run ads in California, because he (or any Republican) had no chance of winning it. Do you expect the NRA to run ads here when even the candidate himself is not?

Well then I don't know who was paying for them but I was seeing them on tv as well as a bunch on the radio just prior to the election

Gator Monroe
11-12-2008, 12:47 PM
Dude, McCain didn't even campaign or run ads in California, because he (or any Republican) had no chance of winning it. Do you expect the NRA to run ads here when even the candidate himself is not?

California can't be won by a Republican and so they don't spend money or time here. That's why you didn't hear from the NRA.

Maybe if a lot more Californians would join the NRA it would give the Republicans some reason to think that they have a shot here.

Dude Every GOP CANDIDATE IN MY AREA WON (Neilson,Herger,... AND almost 70% OF cALIFORNIA COUNTIES WENT Red !

CCWFacts
11-12-2008, 1:16 PM
Dude Every GOP CANDIDATE IN MY AREA WON (Neilson,Herger,... AND almost 70% OF cALIFORNIA COUNTIES WENT Red !

It doesn't change the fact that Obama inevitably won by this state by a landslide, just like Kerry before him, and Gore before him, and Clinton (twice) before him.

Any dollar spent on trying to win California's electoral votes for McCain would be a dollar wasted. Everyone in the "R" party, and in the NRA, understood this perfectly.

"70% of California's counties are red" is meaningless because that includes a bunch of counties with tiny populations. Counties and land surface area don't count; votes are state-wide without regard to county or city or whatever else. Los Angeles and the Bay Area determine who gets CA's electoral votes, and, in case you didn't notice, LA and the SF Bay Area are ravingly Democratic.

FreedomIsNotFree
11-12-2008, 1:27 PM
I don't necessarily think not protesting is a form of "sitting on the sidelines". If your an NRA member, donate money, write letters to your politicians and actually set up meetings with these guys, I think you've done a lot more good than marching.


In regards to the protesting issue, sitting on the sideline means not getting involved...not voicing the reasons why this may be a bad idea. Simply standing back and watching it happen without logical input is sitting on the sideline.

FreedomIsNotFree
11-12-2008, 1:30 PM
first off we were talking about a march.

Second off the next legislative cycle starts in 3 weeks.

I understand we are talking about a march, but the point still stands. If people disagree with marching then they need to get involved and express those concerns to those that are proposing the march...not talk about how the sky is falling on CG.net.

FreedomIsNotFree
11-12-2008, 2:09 PM
After looking at more of the recent pages at AR15.com, the group seems to be less about a march and more about organizing a grass roots campaign to fight future legislation that seeks to infringe on our 2nd Amendment rights. They are talking about having representation across the country with particular attention paid to CA.

Again, we would be doing ourselves a disservice if we aren't represented in that group in some form. Only by getting involved will we have an opportunity to share what has worked for us, thus far, and help direct a course of action.

For all of those willing to throw the baby out with the bath water, I ask you to reconsider.

JohnJW
11-12-2008, 2:28 PM
I don't necessarily think not protesting is a form of "sitting on the sidelines". If your an NRA member, donate money, write letters to your politicians and actually set up meetings with these guys, I think you've done a lot more good than marching.

I am NRA member, donated money, and I wrote many letters to pro and anti-gun politicians. However, to most politicians I am just one person. Public rally will change that "one person" perception. Now there's critical mass, there's organization and networking, and that's a political force which can't simply be thrown in the trashcan and ignored.

Regarding NRA, I am curious to know what percentage of NRA members are from CA and proportionally how much RKBA effort has been put into CA by the NRA.

Smokeybehr
11-13-2008, 4:48 PM
This would actually hurt us.

I remember watching the NEWS one time and they were covering a business convention with people of held FFL's and workers in the firearms industry. Almost 100% of people showed up dressed in business attire, while one D-Bag was wearing his orange flannel shirt with mossy oak pants. Guess who the news reporter interviewed? The redneck guy!


We need one articulate individual to be dressed in a Mossy Oak business suit (anyone know of a good tailor?) with a blaze orange shirt and MO tie to be the designated spokesperson.