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View Full Version : Expandable batons in California, who is exempt?


mxpatriot51
11-08-2008, 7:16 PM
I always thought they were illegal for anyone but LE, but I see on LA Police Gear's website they will sell to persons with a military ID.

Can military legally possess them? I tried to find the law on that one, but couldn't.

sorensen440
11-08-2008, 7:19 PM
Cant some security gaurds possess them as well?

leelaw
11-08-2008, 7:21 PM
Sworn Peace Officers may. Security guards with a guard card, and expandable baton card may carry while on uniform patrol. I don't know about military, but I doubt it.

mxpatriot51
11-08-2008, 7:35 PM
That's what I had heard previously, but LAPG will ship them if they get a copy of my military ID.

I don't want something illegal, but if I can legally have it, I definitely want one.

CSDGuy
11-08-2008, 7:38 PM
I would imagine that Military, in the scope of their duties, would be able to possess and/or use batons, including expandable ones. I'd be surprised, however, if they'd be allowed "off-base" when not being used during an exercise.

PonchoTA
11-08-2008, 7:46 PM
What about the telescoping spring-type?

http://www.nservices.com/M957spring2.jpg

JDay
11-08-2008, 7:54 PM
That's what I had heard previously, but LAPG will ship them if they get a copy of my military ID.

I don't want something illegal, but if I can legally have it, I definitely want one.

The assumption is that you will be using it in your official duties.

yellowfin
11-08-2008, 8:01 PM
I gather majorettes can buy them, as well.

plm61
11-08-2008, 8:24 PM
I always thought they were illegal for anyone but LE, but I see on LA Police Gear's website they will sell to persons with a military ID.

I looked into this recently after a close call with a pit bull.

It is a misdemeanor for first time bust on carrying a concealed handgun. It is a felony for illegal possession of an expandable baton. Go figure.

lehn20
11-08-2008, 8:30 PM
Anyone can buy them. LAPG just decided to have less liability and require MIL/LEO/Security permits.

a concealed ASP in CA is a felony.

bohoki
11-08-2008, 8:41 PM
i'm a bit confused

since baton=billyclub
also wrench-billyclub,baseball bat=billyclub,chunk of rebar=billyclub,crowbar=billyclub

is simple possession of an expandable baton in ones home a crime?

DedEye
11-08-2008, 8:45 PM
i'm a bit confused

since baton=billyclub
also wrench-billyclub,baseball bat=billyclub,chunk of rebar=billyclub,crowbar=billyclub

is simple possession of an expandable baton in ones home a crime?

To my understanding, yes. Possession is controlled, not just carrying.

Dr. Strangelove
11-08-2008, 10:08 PM
I'm sorry, I'm new to Calif. law. This thread is about the legality of purchasing what again? A stick that can get bigger if you want it to? Holy crap guys...

JDay
11-08-2008, 11:05 PM
I looked into this recently after a close call with a pit bull.

It is a misdemeanor for first time bust on carrying a concealed handgun. It is a felony for illegal possession of an expandable baton. Go figure.

It's also a felony for first time possession of a concealed knife.

hawk81
11-08-2008, 11:09 PM
You can own them, it is just some companies will not sell them to you. I carried one when I worked at the Fontana swap meet as a security guard, and I didn't even have a permit for one. It was ok, because it was private property. The owner didn't have a problem with it.

leelaw
11-08-2008, 11:10 PM
It's also a felony for first time possession of a concealed knife.

A fixed-blade knife.

You can carry a non-gravity knife folding knife concealed without issue (local ordinance withstanding).

JDay
11-08-2008, 11:15 PM
A fixed-blade knife.

You can carry a non-gravity knife folding knife concealed without issue (local ordinance withstanding).

Oops, forgot about that. And it has to be closed. The law also exempts knives with a blade under 2 1/2" iirc.

marc4
11-08-2008, 11:16 PM
What about the telescoping spring-type?

http://www.nservices.com/M957spring2.jpg


Yes, same question here. Are the springy kinds legal or are they also considered expandable batons. I had one of this when I was overseas and it came handy when 3 dogs had me cornered in an alley. They fit nicely in the mini maglight holster and look just like flashlights.

DedEye
11-09-2008, 12:51 AM
Yes, same question here. Are the springy kinds legal or are they also considered expandable batons. I had one of this when I was overseas and it came handy when 3 dogs had me cornered in an alley. They fit nicely in the mini maglight holster and look just like flashlights.

PC12020(a)(1) is worded ambiguously enough that nearly anything can be considered a violation and classified as an illegal weapon. This has even been affirmed by case law, where the specific example of a chair leg was given.

Likewise, carrying a baseball bat sans glove or balls in your vehicle can be construed as a violation of PC12020. Same goes for a Maglight if you're dumb or misinformed enough to tell a LEO that your reason for carrying or possessing it is for use as a melee weapon.

Short answer: almost certainly illegal.

DedEye
11-09-2008, 1:00 AM
Oops, forgot about that. And it has to be closed. The law also exempts knives with a blade under 2 1/2" iirc.

You recall incorrectly. There is no allowed length for a concealed fixed blade knife. PC12020 prohibits the carrying of any "dirk or dagger" that may be readily used as a stabbing implement. It also makes reference to PC653(k), which prohibits switchblade knifes greater than 2 inches in length.

You're also probably thinking of PC626(a), which prohibit carrying fixed blade and folding knives greater than 2.5" on K-12 campuses, and (b), which prohibits carrying fixed blade knives greater than 2.5" on college campuses.

CSDGuy
11-09-2008, 1:02 AM
You can own them, it is just some companies will not sell them to you. I carried one when I worked at the Fontana swap meet as a security guard, and I didn't even have a permit for one. It was ok, because it was private property. The owner didn't have a problem with it.
The BSIS would have had a field day with you on that. Would it have been OK for you to be armed with a firearm on duty as a Security Guard without a permit for it, even though it was "private property"?

ETA: The DA in that county, the Police and/or Sheriff's Department, those nice folks at the DoJ... I'm sure that any one of them would be happy to pay you this nice little visit, especially if the statute of limitations (if it applies in this case) hasn't run out...

It has been a long time since I've worked private security. However, it's been at least that long (and then some) that the BSIS has required certifications for security guards that carry weapons, even if they're "in-house" security guards.

leelaw
11-09-2008, 1:13 AM
You can own them, it is just some companies will not sell them to you. I carried one when I worked at the Fontana swap meet as a security guard, and I didn't even have a permit for one. It was ok, because it was private property. The owner didn't have a problem with it.

The owner not having an issue with it doesn't overrule state law. You're admitting committing a felony.

Oops, forgot about that. And it has to be closed. The law also exempts knives with a blade under 2 1/2" iirc.

Gravity knives with a blade under 2" are legal (auto-blades, butterfly knives, etc). Fixed blades of ANY length may not be carried concealed.

N6ATF
11-09-2008, 11:48 PM
Yep, oops.

The way I understand it, having actually gotten the whole BSIS initial training, if your job function is NOT primarily security guard, then you shouldn't be hired and wear the uniform/badge/gear as one, because of conflict of interest and you would be distracted from observing and reporting. Doesn't sound like that's the case with hawk81, but...

From what I've read on the forum here, seems like everyone agrees that if you are working as a {insert job title other than anything BSIS-related} at any enclosed business, and the owner says you can carry loaded exposed or concealed there, that's legal. And a pretty decent deterrent to crime while you're exposing. Yes, it's usually seen at pawnshops and gun shops, but theoretically, it can be done anywhere with the owner's say-so.

leelaw
11-10-2008, 12:02 AM
From what I've read on the forum here, seems like everyone agrees that if you are working as a {insert job title other than anything BSIS-related} at any enclosed business, and the owner says you can carry loaded exposed there, that's legal. And a pretty decent deterrent to crime while you're at it. Yes, it's usually seen at pawnshops and gun shops, but theoretically, it can be done anywhere with the owner's say-so.

On private property, you may carry concealed and loaded if you have permission from the owner. Just don't take it outside when you stroll down the block to get lunch.

N6ATF
11-10-2008, 12:37 AM
That too, edited.

I was more in the mindset of the security guard's being visibly armed as a deterrent, even if the actual job is something else entirely.

motorhead
11-10-2008, 9:00 AM
active duty military have a sort of protected, non-resident status.
a certain motorcycle club used to get around the billy club statute by carrying ball pein hammers.

sigsauer887
11-10-2008, 10:08 AM
PC12020(a)(1) is worded ambiguously enough that nearly anything can be considered a violation and classified as an illegal weapon. This has even been affirmed by case law, where the specific example of a chair leg was given.

Likewise, carrying a baseball bat sans glove or balls in your vehicle can be construed as a violation of PC12020. Same goes for a Maglight if you're dumb or misinformed enough to tell a LEO that your reason for carrying or possessing it is for use as a melee weapon.

Short answer: almost certainly illegal.


Wait having a Maglight is in violation of 12020a!?!? So if I had it in my center console that's a felony? Wtf.....

DedEye
11-10-2008, 10:15 AM
Wait having a Maglight is in violation of 12020a!?!? So if I had it in my center console that's a felony? Wtf.....

Only if you had it there for the express purpose of using as a blunt melee weapon.

Correct answer (or some variation thereof) if a cop or anyone else asks you why you have it: "It's a flashlight. I want to be able to light up the dark."

Incorrect answer: "To hit someone/use as a club."

CA_Libertarian
11-10-2008, 12:11 PM
Likewise, carrying a baseball bat sans glove or balls in your vehicle can be construed as a violation of PC12020...

Yeah, you gotta have balls to keep a bat in your car in California.

CA_Libertarian
11-10-2008, 12:13 PM
So, if you buy an expandable baton as a security guard, how do you go about disposing of it when you stop doing that line of work? What if you don't work as a guard, but you keep your registration current (just in case you get 'downsized' and need to fall back on that line of work)?

tyrist
11-10-2008, 12:31 PM
As far as billyclubs and knives being felonies in certain cases where as a gun is only a misdemeanor. Knives and billyclubs are used as weapons in public far more than guns as so many of the membership here like to point at but somehow forgot. When I made contact with a suspect he did'nt try to shoot me with a concealed gun....he tried to stab with a 6 inch dagger he pulled out of his jacket pocket. When I do pat down searches of an actual suspects person I have found a gun only once. I have found hundreds of knives and makeshift billy clubs (I think a baseball bat with a railroad spike through it is not exactly used to play baseball call me crazy). If I had to rate what I most feared of while on the job...I would say being stabbed or bludgeoned to death. Most police shooting don't involve an assailant armed with a gun..it involves one armed with a knife. So it is probably reasonable these offenses would be considered much more severe by the law. While a firearm is a much more effective weapon it can be cost prohibitive and not as readily available to most crimminals. Knives and billyclub are much easier to get ahold of and to build yourself.

Doheny
11-10-2008, 12:39 PM
^ and as has been pointed out - simple possession of said stick is a felony, but you can carry a loaded and concealed handgun around in public and get off on a misdemeanor for a first offense....


welcome to California :banghead:

I'd rather have it that way then the gun offense a felony.

ohsmily
11-10-2008, 12:57 PM
Oops, forgot about that. And it has to be closed. The law also exempts knives with a blade under 2 1/2" iirc.

You've got quite a track record of spreading FUD since you joined this forum less than 2 weeks ago....what gives?

N6ATF
11-11-2008, 12:17 AM
So, if you buy an expandable baton as a security guard, how do you go about disposing of it when you stop doing that line of work? What if you don't work as a guard, but you keep your registration current (just in case you get 'downsized' and need to fall back on that line of work)?

If you have a baton permit along with your guard card, as long as you keep the guard card renewed, the baton permit will not expire, and you can own one indefinitely.

Companies usually issue them, but if you happened to have a personally owned baton, you would need to sell it to someone in a jurisdiction where they're legal, a LEO, or a training facility, while you still have a valid permit. At least that's what I was taught.

leelaw
11-11-2008, 12:29 AM
If you have a baton permit along with your guard card, as long as you keep the guard card renewed, the baton permit will not expire, and you can own one indefinitely.

Companies usually issue them, but if you happened to have a personally owned baton, you would need to sell it to someone in a jurisdiction where they're legal, a LEO, or a training facility, while you still have a valid permit. At least that's what I was taught.

12002. (a) Nothing in this chapter prohibits police officers,
special police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers
from carrying any wooden club, baton, or any equipment authorized for
the enforcement of law or ordinance in any city or county.
(b) Nothing in this chapter prohibits a uniformed security guard,
regularly employed and compensated by a person engaged in any lawful
business, while actually employed and engaged in protecting and
preserving property or life within the scope of his or her
employment, from carrying any wooden club or baton if the uniformed
security guard has satisfactorily completed a course of instruction
certified by the Department of Consumer Affairs in the carrying and
use of the club or baton. The training institution certified by the
Department of Consumer Affairs to present this course, whether public
or private, is authorized to charge a fee covering the cost of the
training.
(c) The Department of Consumer Affairs, in cooperation with the
Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, shall develop
standards for a course in the carrying and use of the club or baton.

(d) Any uniformed security guard who successfully completes a
course of instruction under this section is entitled to receive a
permit to carry and use a club or baton within the scope of his or
her employment, issued by the Department of Consumer Affairs. The
department may authorize certified training institutions to issue
permits to carry and use a club or baton. A fee in the amount
provided by law shall be charged by the Department of Consumer
Affairs to offset the costs incurred by the department in course
certification, quality control activities associated with the course,
and issuance of the permit.


So to carry a baton as a security guard you must (1) have a guard card, (2) have a baton card, (3) be on uniform duty as an (4) employed security guard.

If you've got a guard card and baton card, you may carry a baton while on uniformed duty while employed as a security guard. If you're not employed, you're in a bit of a grey area.

Librarian
11-11-2008, 1:20 AM
Most police shooting don't involve an assailant armed with a gun..it involves one armed with a knife.
Not to diminish the dangers of being stabbed or clubbed, but I don't know whether to hope the above is right, or hope it's wrong.

I'm sure 'shooting' is a typo; it is a bit shorter than 'injuries inflicted by suspects/perpetrators' or some such. Continue to be careful, please!

DedEye
11-11-2008, 4:11 AM
Not to diminish the dangers of being stabbed or clubbed, but I don't know whether to hope the above is right, or hope it's wrong.

I'm sure 'shooting' is a typo; it is a bit shorter than 'injuries inflicted by suspects/perpetrators' or some such. Continue to be careful, please!

I think you misunderstood tryist's comment. From my reading of his post, he meant that "most officer involved shootings (where an officer shoots a suspect) is a result of the suspect possessing/attacking with a knife or a club, not a gun."

Do I win a cookie?

motorhead
11-11-2008, 8:34 AM
tell the officer you're going sealing.:D

odysseus
11-11-2008, 8:50 AM
This topic always gets confusing, and I am not sure of what case law is on it. I keep reading about "batons" and "carry". However it is not clear here in this thread, or others on it before, that someone could not own a baton in their home.

Could you own a dagger legally at home, like a collectible so many people have? I am pretty sure, yes. I believe it is the issue of actually trying to go out and carry it outside your residence where the illegality comes up. I also see that "posession" gets often intertwined with "carry out in public" as an equal in definition. Without a permit or being LE, you can't carry it. Where is it clear that people mere owning dirks, daggers, batons at home is illegal? I can only image how many millions in California have something like that.

.

DedEye
11-11-2008, 8:52 AM
This topic always gets confusing, and I am not sure of what case law is on it. I keep reading about "batons" and "carry". However it is not clear here in this thread, or others on it before, that someone could not own a baton in their home.

Could you own a dagger legally at home, like a collectible so many people have? I am pretty sure, yes. I believe it is the issue of actually trying to go out and carry it outside your residence where the illegality comes up. I also see that "posession" gets often intertwined with "carry out in public" as an equal in definition. Without a permit or being LE, you can't carry it. Where is it clear that people mere owning dirks, daggers, batons at home is illegal? I can only image how many millions in California have something like that.

.

Carrying a dagger is legal; 12020(a)(4) prohibits the CONCEALED carrying of a dirk or dagger.

SteveH
11-11-2008, 8:55 AM
It is not illegal to possess a dirk or dagger. It is only illegal to carry it concealed on the person.

It is illegal to possess a "billy." even in your home.

Librarian
11-11-2008, 2:32 PM
I think you misunderstood tryist's comment. From my reading of his post, he meant that "most officer involved shootings (where an officer shoots a suspect) is a result of the suspect possessing/attacking with a knife or a club, not a gun."

Do I win a cookie?
Sure - but I bet your browser will reject it. Apologies to tyrist if I was confused.

Riodog
11-11-2008, 2:49 PM
Does this mean that as a kindergarten teacher that I can't have one for my protection????

Some of these lil darling are brutal.:D
Rio

N6ATF
11-11-2008, 11:21 PM
So to carry a baton as a security guard you must (1) have a guard card, (2) have a baton card, (3) be on uniform duty as an (4) employed security guard.

If you've got a guard card and baton card, you may carry a baton while on uniformed duty while employed as a security guard. If you're not employed, you're in a bit of a grey area.

This topic always gets confusing, and I am not sure of what case law is on it. I keep reading about "batons" and "carry". However it is not clear here in this thread, or others on it before, that someone could not own a baton in their home.

Could you own a dagger legally at home, like a collectible so many people have? I am pretty sure, yes. I believe it is the issue of actually trying to go out and carry it outside your residence where the illegality comes up. I also see that "posession" gets often intertwined with "carry out in public" as an equal in definition. Without a permit or being LE, you can't carry it. Where is it clear that people mere owning dirks, daggers, batons at home is illegal? I can only image how many millions in California have something like that.

.

IANAL, but CA PC 12002 would only seem to refer to carrying batons in public as authorized by law, in other words allowable public possession. Not possession or carry in the home. Though it stands to reason if you are authorized at work and they don't want it back from you at EOS (whether or not they own the baton or you do), you will be possessing it at home, and it would have to be adjudicated legal there as well. Even more so if it were your own and you suddenly get laid off, I don't see anything in the law that indicates you must sell it as long as your license and permit are valid in the intervening time until you put another company's uniform on. You just have to mothball it at home.

As far as everyone other than cops and guards...

(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable
firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a
firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which
contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or
carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst
trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any
short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any
leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol,
any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge
knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice
handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon
of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy,
sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

Billy=baton.

JDay
11-11-2008, 11:26 PM
You've got quite a track record of spreading FUD since you joined this forum less than 2 weeks ago....what gives?

Originally Posted by JDay
Oops, forgot about that. And it has to be closed. The law also exempts knives with a blade under 2 1/2" iirc.

See the part where I typed "iirc"? And anyone who takes something they read on the internet as fact without checking for themselves is a fool. The part of the law that I was thinking of deals with fixed blade knives on school grounds.

626.10. (a) Any person, ... , who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, knife having a blade longer than 2 1/2 inches, folding knife with a blade that locks into place, a razor with an unguarded blade, ... , upon the grounds of, or within, any public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.

motorhead
11-12-2008, 9:05 AM
:Di've got an airsoft replica of a pr24. for display purposes only.

DedEye
11-12-2008, 4:01 PM
See the part where I typed "iirc"? And anyone who takes something they read on the internet as fact without checking for themselves is a fool. The part of the law that I was thinking of deals with fixed blade knives on school grounds.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1679183&postcount=21. Already mentioned 626.10.

asymmetricalwarfar3
11-16-2008, 11:50 AM
Yeah, you gotta have balls to keep a bat in your car in California.

hmmm......:D

Get it?

N6ATF
11-16-2008, 11:14 PM
Verrry punny.

swhatb
11-17-2008, 11:49 AM
bump...

MP301
11-18-2008, 1:59 AM
Security can carry any type of baton; straight stick, side-handle and expandable with a guard card and baton card. BSIS no longer requires the permit to show which type of baton you have been trainined in, but its recommended you that learn how to use the one your carrying.

ADOR
11-18-2008, 10:23 AM
Yes, same question here. Are the springy kinds legal or are they also considered expandable batons. I had one of this when I was overseas and it came handy when 3 dogs had me cornered in an alley. They fit nicely in the mini maglight holster and look just like flashlights.

Follow-up question for a non-CA resident. I have an ASP expandable baton that I am planning to take with me overseas for protection against dogs.

I will be flying out of LAX. Is it illegal to take this item with me if I am putting this baton in my "check-in" luggage? Definitely DO NOT want to get into any kind of trouble with the law.

If baton is not an option, how about pepper spray? Is that illegal to posses and carry in check-in luggage? (I doubt pepper spray will be helpful against dogs, but better to have something than nothing).

Quiet
11-18-2008, 12:03 PM
Follow-up question for a non-CA resident. I have an ASP expandable baton that I am planning to take with me overseas for protection against dogs.

I will be flying out of LAX. Is it illegal to take this item with me if I am putting this baton in my "check-in" luggage? Definitely DO NOT want to get into any kind of trouble with the law.

If baton is not an option, how about pepper spray? Is that illegal to posses and carry in check-in luggage? (I doubt pepper spray will be helpful against dogs, but better to have something than nothing).

Yes, it's illegal.
The rapper/actor "Snoop Dogg" got busted once for having an expandable baton in his "check-in" luggage while going through LAX.

You need to check with the US State Department to see what you want to bring is legal in the country you are traveling to.

SteveH
12-10-2008, 1:32 AM
Yes, it's illegal.
The rapper/actor "Snoop Dogg" got busted once for having an expandable baton in his "check-in" luggage while going through LAX.

You need to check with the US State Department to see what you want to bring is legal in the country you are traveling to.

Calvin Brodus, and it wasnt LAX IIRC. He got off with informal probation i believe.

Quiet
12-10-2008, 5:22 AM
Calvin Brodus, and it wasnt LAX IIRC. He got off with informal probation i believe.

You're right, it was not LAX. It was John Wayne Airport.
He told LE is was a "prop" from a movie.
He paid a $150,000 bail.
Three year probabtion, 160 hours of community service, $1000 fine and court ordered $10,000 donation to a youth center.

tacobueno
12-10-2008, 5:45 AM
I looked into this recently after a close call with a pit bull.

It is a misdemeanor for first time bust on carrying a concealed handgun. It is a felony for illegal possession of an expandable baton. Go figure.

It is a misdemeanor for first time bust on carrying a concealed handgun.

And I saw (from the law and order guy) it was a felony for carrying a concealed unregistered handgun.

What's the penalty for just plain unregistered handgun possession?

Quiet
12-10-2008, 5:52 AM
It is a misdemeanor for first time bust on carrying a concealed handgun.

And I saw (from the law and order guy) it was a felony for carrying a concealed unregistered handgun.

What's the penalty for just plain unregistered handgun possession?

It is not illegal to own/possess an unregistered handgun.

However, an unregistered handgun makes some crimes a felony, instead of a misdemeanor.

rubdub
07-21-2010, 11:14 AM
Okay, so if someone was to have an ASP at home (because someone used to be a public safety officer, and bought it for work, and now is no longer a PSO), how would/should that someone get rid of it?

Simply trash it? Or turn it in? or what?

Decoligny
07-21-2010, 1:25 PM
It's also a felony for first time possession of a concealed FIXED BLADE knife.

You can legally carry a concealed folder almost anywhere in California.

Decoligny
07-21-2010, 1:28 PM
Oops, forgot about that. And it has to be closed. The law also exempts knives with a blade under 2 1/2" iirc.

You do not recall correctly. The law for switchblades exempts under 2".

There is no length limit on a concealed fixed blade knife.

The way the law is written, even this knife, if concealed, could land you with a felony charge.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/7649198/aview/Penny_Knife_5.JPG

mif_slim
07-21-2010, 1:32 PM
all you need is a BB(baton button) on it and you can own one. Also has to not have Hi-cap(no more then 10 sections).

;)

i kidd i kid.

winnre
07-21-2010, 1:34 PM
I have a baton from my Military Police days. Machines aluminum, removable end caps, serial numbered. We could load the baton with shot and when you swing it, the shot moves to the end and adds to the effect.

I still have it, it never goes out of doors and there is no shot in it. It's a souvenir. Technically I still have the MP MOS but last carried this baton in 1985.

Also I have switchblade knives acquired while on active duty. They all stay indoors under lock and key.

Andy Taylor
07-21-2010, 1:45 PM
You can own them, it is just some companies will not sell them to you. I carried one when I worked at the Fontana swap meet as a security guard, and I didn't even have a permit for one. It was ok, because it was private property. The owner didn't have a problem with it.


Actually you just got lucky. You were commiting a felony.

Decoligny
07-21-2010, 1:50 PM
I have a baton from my Military Police days. Machines aluminum, removable end caps, serial numbered. We could load the baton with shot and when you swing it, the shot moves to the end and adds to the effect.

I still have it, it never goes out of doors and there is no shot in it. It's a souvenir. Technically I still have the MP MOS but last carried this baton in 1985.

Also I have switchblade knives acquired while on active duty. They all stay indoors under lock and key.

A baton under 12020 falls into the category of a "billy".

Possession of a "billy" can land you in state prison for up to a year.

You have just confessed to an ongoing crime on the World Wide Interweb.

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable
firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a
firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which
contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or
carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst
trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any
short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any
leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol,
any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge
knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice
handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon
of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy,
sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

Andy Taylor
07-21-2010, 2:07 PM
He also stated he still has the MP MOS. That mean he is still military. Therefore even though not currently part of his daily carry, it should still be legal to keep.

winnre
07-21-2010, 2:11 PM
Practice grenades are illegal? Heck I got them for $5 each at a surplus store! When did they become illegal? No wonder I got so much for them on EBay!

And I must have 200 sandbags for the rains.

Okay I'll take off the end caps and have a 1" diameter pipe. Everyone happy?

winnre
07-21-2010, 2:12 PM
He also stated he still has the MP MOS. That mean he is still military. Therefore even though not currently part of his daily carry, it should still be legal to keep.

Yes but to retire and then get busted, what the heck? I bought the baton on my own, they were for sale and purchases were condoned by the Army. You are allowed to use non-issue gear as long as it fits inside Army specs and you still need to maintain your issue gear.

stitchnicklas
07-21-2010, 2:31 PM
just keep ma tazer gun in the car......

dad
07-21-2010, 2:52 PM
Expandable/collapsible baton- You keep in your house, period! Is possession against the law?

leitung
07-21-2010, 3:12 PM
YES^

Roadrunner
07-21-2010, 4:24 PM
I would be giddy as a school girl if CGF decided to go after the asinine law that makes a collapsible baton illegal to have unless you are one of the anointed. I have a right to bear arms for self defense and I think a collapsible baton has definite applications.

The Director
07-21-2010, 4:40 PM
Don't even start me on the nunchucks!

Wherryj
07-21-2010, 4:53 PM
I looked into this recently after a close call with a pit bull.

It is a misdemeanor for first time bust on carrying a concealed handgun. It is a felony for illegal possession of an expandable baton. Go figure.

It is also a far more serious offense to be caught with nunchuku than a loaded and illegally concealed firearm. That must be because everyone knows that nunchuku are far more deadly-I saw it in a movie.

freespool
07-21-2010, 5:17 PM
A baton under 12020 falls into the category of a "billy".

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable
firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a
firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which
contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or
carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst
trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any
short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any
leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol,
any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge
knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice
handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon
of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy,
sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

This has been cited a couple of times in this thread but it doesn't make sense from the text of the law alone. The final 'or' of 12020 a(1) seems clearly to just offer 6 synonyms for a blackjack, and the construction doesn't comport with it being a catch-all for 'clubs'. Is there some case law or other reason to extend this to (billy)clubs generally? I know it's commonly accepted that clubs (functionally defined) of all types are illegal to carry in public but this section of code doesn't seem to define them as illegal to possess.

Anchors
07-21-2010, 8:35 PM
This is retarded, I read this before I moved here but didn't realize it was a felony.
I guess I have a few metal tubes laying around in an old drawer now :rolleyes:
I agree, wouldn't the legitimacy of this law be easily attacked now? (If anyone cared enough.)
I'm just glad I can buy a gun, but a "billy" is a felony.

Also... LOL at Baton Button. It makes it a fixed baton (a stick.) as it's no longer readily expandable hahaha.