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View Full Version : Open carry, political statement.


nicki
11-08-2008, 1:18 PM
Assuming we get a positive ruling on Nordyke, open carry should be a 2nd amendment right.

Once that is done, the powers that be will need to be educated.

I would contend after a positive Nordyke ruling, that open carry, especially if it was done in the form of a parade to express our "Political rights" would be a "first amendment" issue.

Harassment at this point could be construed as violation of our rights, this is something that will require legal analysis.

We will get to a point though where we need to take action, because if we are on offense, our opponents are forced to play defense.

Since I am a "sick puppy" who just can't stay away from causing controversy, I propose we consider doing open carry marches in places that are hostile to our rights to make our points.

Those are the areas that "need to be educated". We are ground zero, we should have fun at this

Nicki

AJAX22
11-08-2008, 1:30 PM
ooooooo I like it!!!

Might I suggest that slung long arms might be more visually appealing for a march?

hoffmang
11-08-2008, 2:11 PM
Can we sue over being denied a Carry Permit in California first?

-Gene

Hanniballs
11-08-2008, 2:12 PM
Can we sue over being denied a Carry Permit in California first?

-Gene

That was my plan.. :D

nicki
11-08-2008, 2:34 PM
Depending on level of interest will determine what we can do.

Let's be blunt. If we are going to march, it needs to be big, let's say 100 or more people.

We need to have our legal defense lined up before the march, so that if we have legal problems, then our people are bailed out and we are ready to go to court with immediate briefs.

Something this large will catch attention across the country, especially if the other side makes that tactical mistake of violating our rights.

This is something that we need more than just Cal guns bankrolling, we need the NSSF to actually step up and bankroll any legal costs we may incur.

Of course the Calguns foundations existence will shows the NSSF that we are serious.

With first amendment issues in play, the ACLU might actually side with us, although I am not holding my breath.

We will win regardless of what happens. Every open carry march that happens withour arrests or incidents cements our right to carry.

If we run into arrests, it will only make us stronger because our cause is just, simply put, while we may have setbacks at the lower court levels, ultimately I believe in higher court levels we will prevail.

Nicki

nicki
11-08-2008, 2:45 PM
I actually envisioned holster carry, but shoulder carry is a option also.

I like the evil feature guns, especially the OLL's. That being said, I have issues with people carrying their OLL's because I would hate to see someone potentially have a very "expensive" rifle confiscated.

Perhaps if we had special OLLs for the march, ones that had no guts in them, just enough to look like a rifle, that might do the trick.

A rifle that had a bullet button, but no trigger group, no bolt carrier, no magazine would be nothing more than a "statement".

Hell, even if we had completed lowers, if we removed the bolt carriers from all guns, we would have effective sticks.

Nicki

FreedomIsNotFree
11-08-2008, 5:47 PM
Can we sue over being denied a Carry Permit in California first?

-Gene

Well, that would be the logical thing to do, but not everyone is logical. I would hope that those willing to risk arrest would at least have a carry permit denial in their pocket to bolster their case or at least give them standing.

yellowfin
11-08-2008, 6:02 PM
I wouldn't say an organized 1 place march, but an organized week of thousands of people carrying in different places at once just as ordinary citizens. Don't take it to the street, take it to the checkout line. Less easy to beat down that way and reaches a lot more people more effectively. Wackos march, real people do it in their ordinary life.

JDay
11-08-2008, 6:33 PM
ooooooo I like it!!!

Might I suggest that slung long arms might be more visually appealing for a march?

I like the way you think.

JDay
11-08-2008, 6:37 PM
Depending on level of interest will determine what we can do.

Let's be blunt. If we are going to march, it needs to be big, let's say 100 or more people.

I'd say we need 1000+

FreedomIsNotFree
11-08-2008, 6:41 PM
Movements begin with a few and grow to the many. One drawback of having too many people together is the need for permits and such, of course depending on where/when...etc..etc.

JDay
11-08-2008, 6:51 PM
Movements begin with a few and grow to the many. One drawback of having too many people together is the need for permits and such, of course depending on where/when...etc..etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you have to declare intent to open carry when getting a permit for a march.

FreedomIsNotFree
11-08-2008, 6:58 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you have to declare intent to open carry when getting a permit for a march.

I have never filled out an application for a march permit, but I would imagine somewhere on the app. it asks the reason for your "gathering". Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If you want to shore up your legal defense, or at least give yourself a huge leg up, you need to show that you tried to follow the rules and were denied the "priviledge". It has everything to do with what "may" happen in a court of law.

joems
11-08-2008, 6:59 PM
can we call it " a million gun march"? .........

secretasianman
11-08-2008, 7:01 PM
Movements begin with a few and grow to the many. One drawback of having too many people together is the need for permits and such, of course depending on where/when...etc..etc.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Funny how we'll have to get a permit to exercise our first ammendment right.

yellowfin
11-08-2008, 7:18 PM
The permit isn't as much for the right to assemble as it is to allocate that space for use AFAIK.

CitaDeL
11-08-2008, 7:34 PM
ooooooo I like it!!!

Might I suggest that slung long arms might be more visually appealing for a march?

Yes. You might suggest it, however, there are a number of reasons I think this isn't the direction an open carry demonstration should go. The primary reason long arms probably should be excluded in a demonstration like this is that it is much more difficult to determine intent- even when a rifle is carried slung, a rifleman will be touching it in ways that could be misconstrued. There are also concerns about muzzle discipline and the ability to secure their firearm.

Can we sue over being denied a Carry Permit in California first?

-Gene

Yes. Get to it. Chop chop.;)


I wouldn't say an organized 1 place march, but an organized week of thousands of people carrying in different places at once just as ordinary citizens. Don't take it to the street, take it to the checkout line. Less easy to beat down that way and reaches a lot more people more effectively. Wackos march, real people do it in their ordinary life.

Plus One- You and I share a philosophy here. Yes, regular people ought to carry whenever they can. Ideally with a wingman who has a compact digital video recorder. Now on the other hand- Minus One- I think there is a time and place for all of these things, even marching in a parade of an organized demonstration. So that post is a wash. We can also take it up the middle too... by adopting a highway or a park or public land and doing a garbage pick up or do a defense walk on walking trails or the shady side of the park....Contribute to the community while you carry. This will help change the perception of gun owners.

I'd say we need 1000+

There are about a dozen people in the state that have taken the initiative on more than one occasion. To my knowledge, none of them are daily carriers and some carriers have been scared off by published encounters with police. If we need 1000, we will need some added incentive to get broader participation. Perhaps this is where community activism or clubs could help. This will take some networking and organizing. Community service as mentioned above could attract media, and media can help advertize the cause, attracting more participation.

Having 100 people regularly carrying in various communties state wide would be huge. Getting them all in one place- would be 11 o'clock news. 1000 people may perhaps be overly optomistic. It still represents a risk that not all are willing to take and a political statement not all are willing to make.

nobody_special
11-08-2008, 7:39 PM
Can we sue over being denied a Carry Permit in California first?
I presume you're talking about a permit to carry loaded? In that case, I'd hope your argument is that carry permits themselves are unconstitutional. But I see no reason to delay an unloaded OC protest for such a suit.
I wouldn't say an organized 1 place march, but an organized week of thousands of people carrying in different places at once just as ordinary citizens.
Better to do a big march, in a place like Berkeley or S.F. -- very "in your face." There's (a little) safety in numbers, individuals are easy for the police to target. With a big group, it's slightly more difficult. Of course, plenty of camcorders will be necessary...

Heehee, I have a vision of a huge line of riot police facing a couple dozen protesters, who are carrying (unloaded, but perhaps not obviously so) Mosin-Nagants, with fixed bayonets... :smilielol5: ...though that could run afoul of some laws (brandishing?).

There would have to be a very careful discussion of what people should do if the police decide to go all DNC on the protesters... everyone drop their weapons, take a few steps back and sit down? We'd certainly need the right people handy...

hoffmang
11-08-2008, 8:09 PM
Yes. Get to it. Chop chop.;)


Just waiting for the Nordyke resolution :reddevil:

-Gene

yellowfin
11-08-2008, 8:52 PM
Should we get a bottle of madeira to toast to the Nordyke decision?