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CavTrooper
11-07-2008, 11:58 AM
lets try not to start the back and forth bickering between the "tacticool" folks and the outdoorsmen/hunting crowd. Lets all try to remember that those outdoorsmen that are so regularly targets for the blame game, are sometimes "survivalist" type and probably have a few homeland defense weapons stashed around somewhere "just in case".

To think that hunters, target shooters, etc., are anti-EBR is pretty ignorant and when comments about them get thrown around like this:

all the same pussies who said, "Well, they''re not coming after my Remington 700" the last time are still out there.

just serves to divide us all as 2A supporters.

Remeber, you are living in California, not exactly a place that is representative of the rest of the country. Because you dont regulary see hunters, etc. packing their EBRs to the field, doesnt mean that it isnt happening in the rest of the country.

Are there traitors and elitists out there? Yes! However lets try not to alienate those who are not or might be on the fence by making ignorant generalizations, it does nothing for the cause.

Just my 2 cents... not meant to offend or start a fight.

Bad Voodoo
11-07-2008, 12:40 PM
I've never seen divisiveness exhibited on this side of the fence for any kind of gun-related pursuit. Of course, yours would be a great speech for the hunting crowd. They could use the lesson that we're all in this together. We seem to "get it." Them? Not so much. Remember our recent friend, Mr. Cooper? ;)

Hatchman
11-07-2008, 1:01 PM
I am a Hunter. I am also a survivalist. I also "get it." Remember, our Founding Fathers used Hunting rifles to fight a war. Most of the hunters I know also have "other" weapons available for when they might be needed. Let us not label each other. When it happens, we will all be fighting on the same side, and for the same end result. Just a thought!

sorensen440
11-07-2008, 1:04 PM
we also need to quick bickering with the gun owners who voted Obama
whats done is done now we need to team up to try and prevent the inevitable gun laws the dems will be putting into action.

pepsi2451
11-07-2008, 1:10 PM
But the people that say "Well, they''re not coming after my Remington 700" are the problem. Not all hunters are the problem, I have been hunting since I was 12 and I would never say that. Your right we need to stick together and I think the EBR guys already understand that because they know their rifles will be the first to go. The problem is the hunters that think their Remington 700 is safe so they don't care about everyone else's rifles. You will probably never hear someone say "Oh well, I don't have a 700 anyway at least my AR-15 is safe." I have to think if they tried to ban bolt action rifles the AR guys would stand with the hunting guys even if they didn't own one, the hunters won't always do they same.

CavTrooper
11-07-2008, 2:00 PM
I've never seen divisiveness exhibited on this side of the fence for any kind of gun-related pursuit.

Cmon now, thats just plain ol BS and you know it. One just needs to explore some of the threads here, where do you suppose I cut my one quote from? Theres many, many others, but I thought one would sum it up nicely.

Of course, yours would be a great speech for the hunting crowd.

I am part of the hunting crowd. Above that, Im part of the GUN LOVIN crowd, like most (huntin) folks I know.

They could use the lesson that we're all in this together. We seem to "get it." Them? Not so much.;)

Do you? We're all in this together, however youre attempting to alienate/seperate right here and now.

Remember our recent friend, Mr. Cooper? ;)

Yup, and Zumbo... both who were smacked down by.... THE HUNTING CROWD! Do you think it was the EBR crowd who Cooper, Remington, and all the other outdoor companies listened to when they made thier decisions. Maybe, but Id think its more likely they to listened to thier CUSTOMER BASE... the outdoor folk.

Oh yeah, dont forget about TED! ;)

Bad Voodoo
11-07-2008, 2:03 PM
But the people that say "Well, they''re not coming after my Remington 700" are the problem. Not all hunters are the problem, I have been hunting since I was 12 and I would never say that. Your right we need to stick together and I think the EBR guys already understand that because they know their rifles will be the first to go. The problem is the hunters that think their Remington 700 is safe so they don't care about everyone else's rifles. You will probably never hear someone say "Oh well, I don't have a 700 anyway at least my AR-15 is safe." I have to think if they tried to ban bolt action rifles the AR guys would stand with the hunting guys even if they didn't own one, the hunters won't always do they same.

Yours is an accurate historical perspective of the divide, and I have not seen very many (if any at all) proactive overtures from the Zumbos and Coopers of the gun world to prove otherwise. I have seen a couple halfhearted attempts at apology only when their wallets get threatened though. Go figure.

I'm all for gun owner/sportsman unity, however preaching it at Calguns is for the most part, preaching it to the choir.

Bad Voodoo
11-07-2008, 2:08 PM
Cmon now, thats just plain ol BS and you know it. One just needs to explore some of the threads here, where do you suppose I cut my one quote from? Theres many, many others, but I thought one would sum it up nicely.

Oh, I don't doubt it. I just may not be seeing the relevant threads.

Do you? We're all in this together, however youre attempting to alienate/seperate right here and now.

I do. I don't alienate any kind of gunny and respect them all. I'm just saying there doesn't seem to be any proactive attempt at unity from a lot of the major hunting concerns toward those of us who have other gun-related interests. As long as their bolt-actions and shottys are protected, they seem to be satiated.

It bothers me. What can I say? :cool:

X-NewYawker
11-07-2008, 2:37 PM
But the people that say "Well, they''re not coming after my Remington 700" are the problem. Not all hunters are the problem, I have been hunting since I was 12 and I would never say that. Your right we need to stick together and I think the EBR guys already understand that because they know their rifles will be the first to go. The problem is the hunters that think their Remington 700 is safe so they don't care about everyone else's rifles. You will probably never hear someone say "Oh well, I don't have a 700 anyway at least my AR-15 is safe." I have to think if they tried to ban bolt action rifles the AR guys would stand with the hunting guys even if they didn't own one, the hunters won't always do they same.

THAT was my point. Thank you!
It's not all hunters -- just the ones that don't get out and vote because they feel their class of firearms is "safe" they should ask some of the hunters in Australia and England...

X-NewYawker
11-07-2008, 2:39 PM
When I was a kid in NY I worked in a Gun store. I was surprised that many of the people who came in, including the local cops who transfered their duty arms through our shop -- didn't have any strong feelings for their guns. Not everyone is as bat**** as the calgunners are -- but we are all under attack. We must hang together or we will all hang separately.

BONECUTTER
11-07-2008, 2:55 PM
Look, I have build and sold EBR's for a while now. In a shop and at gun shows.

Hunters who support EBR's in CA and the rest of the country is not the norm.
Gun enthusiast's who support EBR's is not the norm.

I heard them on a daily basis:

I don't see why anyone needs one of these anyway.
Why do you need magazines that hold that many rounds?
I used one in the military but don't see the need to own one.
I couldn't care if they get banned.

These are a tiny percent of some of the things I have heard from GUN people shopping at a GUN store or a GUN show.

You try to tell these people that we all need to stand together because the government wants all guns banned and if they don't support me and EBR's It unlikely I will care when their precious hunting rifles are on the chopping block. But this normally falls on deaf ears.

What needs to happen is all the top hunters/competitive shooters/gun idols all stand up and tell ALL gun owners to oppose any anti gun legislation no matter if it will affect them or not.

Just my 2 cents.

Grakken
11-07-2008, 2:58 PM
Look, I have build and sold EBR's for a while now. In a shop and at gun shows.

Hunters who support EBR's in CA and the rest of the country is not the norm.
Gun enthusiast's who support EBR's is not the norm.

I heard them on a daily basis:






These are a tiny percent of some of the things I have heard from GUN people shopping at a GUN store or a GUN show.

You try to tell these people that we all need to stand together because the government wants all guns banned and if they don't support me and EBR's It unlikely I will care when their precious hunting rifles are on the chopping block. But this normally falls on deaf ears.

What needs to happen is all the top hunters/competitive shooters/gun idols all stand up and tell ALL gun owners to oppose any anti gun legislation no matter if it will affect them or not.

Just my 2 cents.

Here here. +1

CavTrooper
11-07-2008, 3:03 PM
What yall fail to understand is that EBR shooters dont "own" the 2A fight, it belongs to all of us. Seperating hunters from the rest is just plain silly. I can honestly say that outside of Zumbo, Cooper and Ol Jaquin ( NRA board member BTW) Ive never really experienced the "they aint after my guns" mentality. Most folks I know see guns as guns, bolt guns, blackpower, semi-auto, whatever, the attempt to take any gun is an attempt to take every gun. What i think is going on is the generalization/sterotyping of the hunting crowd and its wrong on most accounts.

Consider this, how much support did the fight against the lead ammo ban get from the "EBR crowd"? Outside of "will it effect target shooting..? No... OK." There wasnt too much. Did some folks stand up to fight, hell yes, but compare that to the fight for 2A rights and Im willing to bet that it was largely one-sided.

Like I said before, this isnt about differences, its about coming together. If yall wanna hold some sort of animosity towards hunters and such, thats your perogative, however I belive it would be much more productive to leave that stuff to the side and try to see the common ground.

As for the "Pro-Gun" Obama supporters.... Theres no such thing! :eek:

MudCamper
11-07-2008, 6:21 PM
http://www.paul.net/guns/images/JoinorDie800.png

Mulay El Raisuli
11-08-2008, 6:39 AM
http://www.paul.net/guns/images/JoinorDie800.png



VERY well done.

The Raisuli