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View Full Version : In the event of renewed AW ban..


HotRails
11-05-2008, 9:55 PM
In the event of renewed AW ban and we register our OLL's as AW at the federal level what are the chances of communication between CA DOJ and ATF being used to identify owners of OLL's?

69Mach1
11-05-2008, 9:58 PM
Does it specifically call for registration in the latest version of the proposed AW ban? I think if one were to go into effect, God help us, it would be to prohibit any new AW purchases. Everything else would be grandfathered.

HotRails
11-05-2008, 10:01 PM
Does it specifically call for registration in the laster version of the proposed AW ban? I think if one were to go into effect, God help us, it would be to prohibit any new AW purchases. Everything else would be grandfathered.

I havent looked at the latest proposal. I guess I was assuming it would be modeled after the Roberti Roos act and require registration.

Does anyone also know if the ban would most likely cover parts as well?

hoffmang
11-05-2008, 10:02 PM
It is highly unlikely that a new AW ban will ever be passed Federally. It's just not worth losing control of the house or senate for the Dems.

-Gene

JeffM
11-05-2008, 10:23 PM
It is highly unlikely that a new AW ban will ever be passed Federally. It's just not worth losing control of the house or senate for the Dems.

-Gene

... assuming the Dems learn from the past.




If we've learned anything about the dems over the years, that might be assuming too much.

Hoop
11-05-2008, 11:12 PM
It is highly unlikely that a new AW ban will ever be passed Federally. It's just not worth losing control of the house or senate for the Dems.

-Gene

Anytime soon, yes. Right now people are EconomyEconomyEconomy. That could change in a year or two. Things move fast, especially in politics.

hoffmang
11-05-2008, 11:24 PM
Anytime soon, yes. Right now people are EconomyEconomyEconomy. That could change in a year or two. Things move fast, especially in politics.

Two years from now there will be quite a few sons of Heller with stare decisis. In addition the most likely change will be that Republicans will win back some seats. Pelosi is likely to do things that will cause at least a minor backlash. The majorities the dems hold are based on pro-gun blue dog dems. Those blue dogs realize that they can easily be tossed back at home for a vote the wrong way.

Our only real risks are losing one of the Heller 5 to unexpected premature death or President Elect Obama being shot.

-Gene

forgiven
11-05-2008, 11:26 PM
Likely:mad:

Toolbox X
11-06-2008, 12:36 AM
It is highly unlikely that a new AW ban will ever be passed Federally. It's just not worth losing control of the house or senate for the Dems.

-Gene

#1. I don't think the Dems are that smart.
#2. I've heard rumors that the most die hard anti-gun Dems have already drafted nasty anti-gun bills and are simply waiting for Obama to swear in.

I hope I'm dead wrong on both counts.

csmintel
11-06-2008, 12:39 AM
dont you guys think that revenue from tax is desperately needed for this country right now? why ban when you can tax. oh they will tax us im sure.

gcvt
11-06-2008, 12:40 AM
#2. I've heard rumors that the most die hard anti-gun Dems have already drafted nasty anti-gun bills and are simply waiting for Obama to swear in.

If they hadn't already done so, they may have started a couple of days ago.

Window_Seat
11-06-2008, 5:24 AM
... assuming the Dems learn from the past.

As a "Dem" (not the trad kind), I can say that when they learn, it's only in the short term or whatever fits their agenda...

Erik.

-hanko
11-06-2008, 5:42 AM
Boating accident;)

-hanko

sharpie613
11-06-2008, 9:16 AM
The vast majority of our ARs are modified to a "legal" statute so that they do not meet the government accepted definition of an assault weapon. Fixed mags, non-pistol grips, and so on would say that we are pretty insulated here. That is, of course, dependent upon Congress deciding that banning some metal arranged into interesting shapes is worth handing the House back to the GOP.

To all the government types who are being paid to browse these boards, if you want to stay in charge, shut the f*** up about guns. You keep reaching for the stove and you keep getting your little hands burned. Once it heals up, you go reaching for the stove again. You had control of Congress for a very long time till '94, then you lost it due to guns. Al Gore was doing well, then he started running his mouth and a sitting vice-president lost his home state. John Kerry lost in no small part due to him running his mouth about gun bans despite GWB being less than popular. Americans like guns. Fix the economy, if you are able. Let sleeping dogs lie.

hoffmang
11-06-2008, 9:19 AM
#1. I don't think the Dems are that smart.
#2. I've heard rumors that the most die hard anti-gun Dems have already drafted nasty anti-gun bills and are simply waiting for Obama to swear in.

I hope I'm dead wrong on both counts.

#1 - They ran scared on the DC fixup legislation. I think they're that smart. Politicians are allergic to loosing elections.

#2 - They are certainly drafted and will be introduced and will be gnarly on their face with hopes to trade bad stuff away. However, they'll go nowhere.

-Gene

Toolbox X
11-06-2008, 9:21 AM
#1 - They ran scared on the DC fixup legislation. I think they're that smart. Politicians are allergic to loosing elections.

#2 - They are certainly drafted and will be introduced and will be gnarly on their face with hopes to trade bad stuff away. However, they'll go nowhere.

-Gene

Gene, you are way more in the know than I am. You've put me slightly at ease.

-Grant

rayra
11-06-2008, 9:16 PM
dont you guys think that revenue from tax is desperately needed for this country right now? why ban when you can tax. oh they will tax us im sure.
You and they seem to be completely unaware that when you raise a tax to punitive levels you actually DECREASE tax collections / revenue.
Once taxes are raised, people simply quit spending as much or route their monies to evade the taxes. Under the recent Bush tax cuts total tax return revenues INCREASED. But the liberal media and politicians don't report that and the average citizen is too unaware to notice. Particularly when spending grew even faster and the net result is still an annual deficit.

CA is about to prove this, with L.A. County just passing a +1.5% sales tax resolution, and the Governator flapping his gums about another +1.5% statewide to attempt to facilitate continued out of control spending. CA's economy is going to contract still further and we'll be right back in an even deeper hole in a year, with far less revenue and NO suitable cuts in spending.

rayra
11-06-2008, 9:31 PM
I think Hoffman's badly mistaken. Pelosi Reid et al have already clearly demonstrated their lack of self-retraint when it comes to their attempts to restrain others. Obama and Biden have authored egregious ban legislation. They've all just increased their political power and believe themselves on a cresting wave of dominance.
And the few Demokrats with enough self-awareness to be more calculating will figure it is better to bum-rush the legislation NOW, so that the onus has worn off in the two years until the next round of elections.
There simply isn't anyone in the Demokrat party - particularly its leadership - than can give them pause along this disastrous course. And they obviously and demonstrably have no interest in the will of the people when it conflicts with their agenda. No need to look any farther afield than the bank bailout / takeovers and the ruinous attempts to subvert energy legislation and punish the Evil Oil Corporations. Even their 'drilling' legislation contained criteria that made drilling even LESS possible than it was previously.

And just today on change.gov the Obama Machine has once again boldly reiterated their intent to inflict a permanent national AWB upon us.


http://www.change.gov
Amongst other Obaminations:

Address Gun Violence in Cities:

As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn’t have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

Arguments based on the presumptive rationality of Demokrat politicians are quite simply bunk. They haven't evidenced any in the last 6-7 years. And Obama may be getting credited with a lot of miracles lately, but even he doesn't have enough mojo to make Pelosi or Reid rational or decent. Nothing will do that, except a direct appeal to their very narrow (and narrow-minded) self-interest.

I await the inevitable liberal gainsaying / baldfaced assertion that the above bolded statement is 'no different than Bush's statement that he'd sign an AWB if it reached his desk'.

And I will get no satisfaction at all at saying 'I told you so' when AWB II is passed, as the people I will be saying it to will be some of the very same folks that helped it happen, by either voting directly for the Obama ticket, or by continuing to mutter false soothing / dissembling words about their intentions.

csmintel
11-06-2008, 9:43 PM
[QUOTE=rayra;1672429]You and they seem to be completely unaware that when you raise a tax to punitive levels you actually DECREASE tax collections / revenue.
Once taxes are raised, people simply quit spending as much or route their monies to evade the taxes. Under the recent Bush tax cuts total tax return revenues INCREASED. But the liberal media and politicians don't report that and the average citizen is too unaware to notice. Particularly when spending grew even faster and the net result is still an annual deficit.

NO. WHAT YOU ARE UNAWARE OF IS THAT I WILL PAY WHATEVER IT COSTS FOR MY GUNS AND AMMO WHETHER IT IS TAXED AT 100 TO 1000 PERCENT OR MORE.
So what I was typing is that they should rather take the tax revenue now and be happy about this cash flow in to uncle sams coffin. They should rather keep recieving the tax revenue then BAN the whole thing. Does this makes sense?

hoffmang
11-06-2008, 9:53 PM
And I will get no satisfaction at all at saying 'I told you so' when AWB II is passed, as the people I will be saying it to will be some of the very same folks that helped it happen, by either voting directly for the Obama ticket, or by continuing to mutter false soothing / dissembling words about their intentions.

You do chicken little right Rayra.

Do I get to laugh at you publicly when no AWB is passed and Obama leaves office?

-Gene

csmintel
11-06-2008, 9:56 PM
You do chicken little right Rayra.

Do I get to laugh at you publicly when no AWB is passed and Obama leaves office?

-Gene

If no AW ban passes and he leaves office.....well another dem might take office after him....so, no. untill we deliver our message louder than the brady's of the world....we can't win.

JDay
11-06-2008, 10:00 PM
The vast majority of our ARs are modified to a "legal" statute so that they do not meet the government accepted definition of an assault weapon. Fixed mags, non-pistol grips, and so on would say that we are pretty insulated here. That is, of course, dependent upon Congress deciding that banning some metal arranged into interesting shapes is worth handing the House back to the GOP.

To all the government types who are being paid to browse these boards, if you want to stay in charge, shut the f*** up about guns. You keep reaching for the stove and you keep getting your little hands burned. Once it heals up, you go reaching for the stove again. You had control of Congress for a very long time till '94, then you lost it due to guns. Al Gore was doing well, then he started running his mouth and a sitting vice-president lost his home state. John Kerry lost in no small part due to him running his mouth about gun bans despite GWB being less than popular. Americans like guns. Fix the economy, if you are able. Let sleeping dogs lie.

+1 However I doubt they will ever learn.

1BigPea
11-07-2008, 8:16 AM
I found this over on XDTalk, another forum...

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ar-talk/90226-thoughts-awb-time-frame-ar-supply-demand.html

Quote:
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office. Within 90 days, we will go back after kitchen table dealers, and work to end the gun show and internet sales loopholes. In the first year, I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."

--Barack Obama, VPC Fund Raiser, 2007

Grakken
11-07-2008, 8:20 AM
I think Hoffman's badly mistaken. Pelosi Reid et al have already clearly demonstrated their lack of self-retraint when it comes to their attempts to restrain others. Obama and Biden have authored egregious ban legislation. They've all just increased their political power and believe themselves on a cresting wave of dominance.
And the few Demokrats with enough self-awareness to be more calculating will figure it is better to bum-rush the legislation NOW, so that the onus has worn off in the two years until the next round of elections.
There simply isn't anyone in the Demokrat party - particularly its leadership - than can give them pause along this disastrous course. And they obviously and demonstrably have no interest in the will of the people when it conflicts with their agenda. No need to look any farther afield than the bank bailout / takeovers and the ruinous attempts to subvert energy legislation and punish the Evil Oil Corporations. Even their 'drilling' legislation contained criteria that made drilling even LESS possible than it was previously.

And just today on change.gov the Obama Machine has once again boldly reiterated their intent to inflict a permanent national AWB upon us.


http://www.change.gov
Amongst other Obaminations:



Arguments based on the presumptive rationality of Demokrat politicians are quite simply bunk. They haven't evidenced any in the last 6-7 years. And Obama may be getting credited with a lot of miracles lately, but even he doesn't have enough mojo to make Pelosi or Reid rational or decent. Nothing will do that, except a direct appeal to their very narrow (and narrow-minded) self-interest.

I await the inevitable liberal gainsaying / baldfaced assertion that the above bolded statement is 'no different than Bush's statement that he'd sign an AWB if it reached his desk'.

And I will get no satisfaction at all at saying 'I told you so' when AWB II is passed, as the people I will be saying it to will be some of the very same folks that helped it happen, by either voting directly for the Obama ticket, or by continuing to mutter false soothing / dissembling words about their intentions.

I agree with you. Hoffmang, if it means that you laugh at me and no AWB is passed again, than it is worth it. I dont think Politicians are smart enough to learn from 94. I think the Dems think they are really above the law now. Best be sure if the AWB gets reinstituted, i will be crying at you and not laughing. If it does get passed, than i hope all the Obama people here....leave.

CSACANNONEER
11-07-2008, 9:03 AM
Boating accident;)

-hanko

I'm sorry that my boat collided with yours and both boats and all the weapons in them are forever lost at sea. At least we both made the 20 mile swim back to shore. Right?

csmintel
11-07-2008, 9:15 AM
so if they ban our guns...We will make their lifes miserable. We should vote against every f..g thing they come up with. Ban gangs-period. you-re in the gang----10 years mandatory. throw you in the slammer-be a bubbas GF now. Ban gays and lesbians bars and hangouts nationally too. No more gays in SF. real estate becomes affordable, homelesses leave town...it becomes beautiful. Hey....I know! but it's our right to bear arms too and it's going to be taken away, so i will take away "their" rights.

Toolbox X
11-07-2008, 9:21 AM
so if they ban our guns...We will make their lifes miserable. We should vote against every f..g thing they come up with. Ban gangs-period. you-re in the gang----10 years mandatory. throw you in the slammer-be a bubbas GF now. Ban gays and lesbians bars and hangouts nationally too. No more gays in SF. real estate becomes affordable, homelesses leave town...it becomes beautiful. Hey....I know! but it's our right to bear arms too and it's going to be taken away, so i will take away "their" rights.

csmintel, you are under arrest for being a member of the Calguns "gang".

Seriously, what you are saying is more socialist than what BHO wants. You scare me.

csmintel
11-07-2008, 9:24 AM
csmintel, you are under arrest for being a member of the Calguns "gang".

Seriously, what you are saying is more socialist than what BHO wants. You scare me.

well Iam just frustrated at the thought someone might take my guns away and I am very well armed! There are millions of us. Do you see where this might be going?

Toolbox X
11-07-2008, 9:29 AM
well Iam just frustrated at the thought someone might take my guns away and I am very well armed! There are millions of us. Do you see where this might be going?

We are all frustrated, and very scared about where this is going. But that is no excuse to lose our cool and say really stupid things that make us look like a bunch of gun toting drunk racist bigots.

csmintel
11-07-2008, 9:35 AM
why not? gays can cry on national TV because we took away their marriages...... and i can't be a racist if i want to? why can't i be one? who says that I can't? I will take it to the streets. It is my right to be anything i want to be. If tomorrow i want to be a dictator- i have the right to it as well. just as you have the same rights.
The pandora box has been opened for awhile.......now anything goes in my opinion.

not that i am a racist or anything, I just want to point out that little loophole that just opened.


o the contrary- I will trade my prop 8 vote for abandonement of all gun bans and bans on CCW permits...permanent.

bulgron
11-07-2008, 9:52 AM
And I will get no satisfaction at all at saying 'I told you so' when AWB II is passed, as the people I will be saying it to will be some of the very same folks that helped it happen, by either voting directly for the Obama ticket, or by continuing to mutter false soothing / dissembling words about their intentions.

It would have been far better for the country if Obama had never been elected president.

It would be the very best result if Reid, Pelosi and Obama show some restraint and don't pass AWB II.

That said, if AWB II is inevitable, then I'd rather it come immediately than in a couple of years.

Why? Because if it comes immediately then we still have the courts tilted in our favor. In particular, I'm thinking about the lower federal courts which have so many vacancies that Obama can quickly pack them with the worst sort of liberal activists judges that you can imagine.

If the gang of socialists go nuts, however, and pass AWB II before they've tilted the courts, then it becomes a lot easier for us to get AWB II kicked on constitutional grounds.

So if it must come, let's hope it comes immediately.

X-NewYawker
11-07-2008, 10:23 AM
FYI the reason for those vacancies is that the dems have held up like 70% of Bush's lower court appointments in committee and with the treat of Filibusters. Now they can rush to fill them with their own Koolaid drinkers.

ptoguy2002
11-07-2008, 2:19 PM
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i123/ptoguy2002/baghdadbobAWB.jpg

sorensen440
11-07-2008, 2:30 PM
I'm sorry that my boat collided with yours and both boats and all the weapons in them are forever lost at sea. At least we both made the 20 mile swim back to shore. Right?

Make sure to have them all insured as well :D

Trendkill
11-07-2008, 5:23 PM
I say....get as much stuff as you can now.

That way......if the grabbers come a knockin......we will all be prepared to show them just how much the 2A insures a free state.:reddevil:

From my Cold Dead Hands..........

Sam1
11-07-2008, 7:15 PM
well, if there's a ban I think we should all UOC our guns and go protest on the streets! I'd love to see how LEOs would react to a bunch of armed guys causing a riot. :43:

X-NewYawker
11-07-2008, 7:52 PM
well, if there's a ban I think we should all UOC our guns and go protest on the streets! I'd love to see how LEOs would react to a bunch of armed guys causing a riot. :43:

I guess they'd just start shooting.

383green
11-07-2008, 8:34 PM
well, if there's a ban I think we should all UOC our guns and go protest on the streets! I'd love to see how LEOs would react to a bunch of armed guys causing a riot. :43:

That didn't turn out so well for the Black Panthers, and now we're all suffering for it. :(

In any case, the police have better guns. And radios. And helicopters.

Just walking around in the open with unloaded guns and making a big to-do about it during a volatile situation is tactically unsound, unless the whole idea is to provoke a firefight and generate some martyrs. If things actually got to the point where we felt the need to take to the streets with our guns (other than incidentally carrying them for defense while going about regular day-to-day business), then at that point I think they'd need to be loaded. I sincerely hope that things never degenerate to that point in my lifetime.

Spyduh
11-07-2008, 8:55 PM
ABC Video Here...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6209255&page=1


Obama's Election Sparks Gun Sales

While shoppers are cutting back on almost everything, sales of one item are suddenly soaring -- guns. Buyers across the country are snapping up firearms at a record pace
On fear that new government may change firearms laws, gun sales skyrocket.

At 9 a.m. today, the counter was already crowded at Cheaper Than Dirt, a discount gun and ammunition store in Fort Worth, Texas.

"Everyone is here for the same reason: Buy it now or you're not going to have a chance in the future," said Charlie Street, a gun owner.

At Cheaper Than Dirt alone, more than $100,000 in guns and ammunition have been sold every day since Election Day. Buyers are stocking up before President-elect Barack Obama takes office.

stphnman20
11-07-2008, 8:59 PM
ABC Video Here...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6209255&page=1
GRREAATT! More panic!

Spyduh
11-07-2008, 9:10 PM
GRREAATT! More panic!

Yeah. ABC did a number on that one and put that on prime time news. It's crazy out there. :hide:

stphnman20
11-07-2008, 9:14 PM
Yeah. ABC did a number on that one and put that on prime time news. It's crazy out there. :hide:
It wasn't going to take long to hit the news..
Now people who were thinking on buy guns ARE buying now because of this..

Spyduh
11-07-2008, 9:38 PM
It wasn't going to take long to hit the news..
Now people who were thinking on buy guns ARE buying now because of this..

Sales are down for every thing else.
At least it helps the economy for the time being. :)