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D.R.E.
11-05-2008, 4:37 AM
Hi,

I know intra-familial transfers can happen "infrequently." What exactly does "infrequent" mean? I found the following in another calguns thread, where infrequent was defined as 5 x a year:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12070-12086.html
(A) For pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of
being concealed upon the person, less than six transactions per
calendar year. For this purpose, "transaction" means a single
sale, lease, or transfer of any number of pistols, revolvers,
or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person.
---------------------------------------------------------------

But is this the *same* definition of infrequent as is used for intra-fam transfers? Or is there a different definition for that type of transfer?

Sorry for the very specific post; I'm just trying to stay clearly w/in CA law and it's one of those cases where the more I read the less clear things become.

Thanks!
Dawson

Librarian
11-05-2008, 10:32 AM
That's the same definition for both cases you mention.

It's 12070 (c) that you quoted. 12070 says you must transfer through an FFL; (b)(4) exempts infrequent transfers;

12072(d) says if you don't have a license you must use an FFL;
(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's
license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the
transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that
firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

12078(c)(1 and 2) are the infrequent transfers related to intrafamilial, and those are exempt from using an FFL, they're excepted from 12072(d).

It's all tied together.

D.R.E.
11-05-2008, 11:55 AM
Great, thanks for the clarification. Just to ensure I'm applying everything right: if my dad lives in another state, then we can do <= 5 intra-family transfers per year through an FFL (since its across state lines), where each transfer includes any number of handguns?

That's the same definition for both cases you mention.

It's 12070 (c) that you quoted. 12070 says you must transfer through an FFL; (b)(4) exempts infrequent transfers;

12072(d) says if you don't have a license you must use an FFL;

12078(c)(1 and 2) are the infrequent transfers related to intrafamilial, and those are exempt from using an FFL, they're excepted from 12072(d).

It's all tied together.

Librarian
11-05-2008, 2:01 PM
Great, thanks for the clarification. Just to ensure I'm applying everything right: if my dad lives in another state, then we can do <= 5 intra-family transfers per year through an FFL (since its across state lines), where each transfer includes any number of handguns?

As far as I can see, that looks right. Be sure to talk to your friendly FFL before getting started - there will be those transfer fees.

Let me think out loud...

It's father-son, so it qualifies as intrafamilial.

Transfers are interstate, so they'll go through FFL.

Intrafamilial, within CA, allows any number of handguns on one form, so obviously it's exempt from 1 gun per month

Interstate-intrafamilial ought to work the same way.

Interstate-intrafamilial is exempt from the Roster requirement, just like instate.

You plan to meet the 'infrequent' requirement.

Maybe it's just a weird day, but something feels off here, and I can't put my finger on it. Someone else want to consider this? I don't want to be discouraging where it's not warranted...

Mssr. Eleganté
11-05-2008, 8:08 PM
Maybe it's just a weird day, but something feels off here, and I can't put my finger on it. Someone else want to consider this? I don't want to be discouraging where it's not warranted...

The only thing I can think of is this could be one of those transactions that are perfectly legal under the law, but are so complicated that the DROS computer system has no way of accepting it.

Because the firearms are coming from out of state, the California Dealer probably can't run the transaction as a PPT. But if he runs it as a regular Dealer transfer then is there any way for him to log the proper exemption code into the DROS system for the 1 handgun per 30 days rule?

I know he can choose an exemption code for the Safe Roster, but I'm not sure if he needs to or is able to enter a separate exemption for the 1 in 30 day rule. If he can then you should be good to go.

The only reason I wonder about this is because family transfers don't normally have to go through an FFL in California so maybe they didn't include that exemption in the DROS system when they set it up.