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hnoppenberger
11-04-2008, 12:55 PM
so from what ive read on HK pro, the hk416 upper should theoretically just mount up to a standard lower?

anyone can confirm this?

more importantly, can we buy an 416 or 416 upper in CA?

its an amazing setup. i would love to get a complete weapon, but im sure it will be thousands, so getting just the important part with my own lower and accessories. (though the hk stuff its awesome)

lazyworm
11-04-2008, 12:56 PM
I'm probably wrong, but I once heard that's just essentially the same as the POF upper.

civilsnake
11-04-2008, 12:57 PM
It's a gas piston upper. There are a lot of those available now without two little red letters that will cost you a lot less and do the same thing.

People have acquired uppers for $2k+ if I recall correctly...

BONECUTTER
11-04-2008, 1:05 PM
There is one on Gunbroker ...starting bid $5,900.00 :eek:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=115129837

My LWRC does the same thing and I can buy 4 for that price. But hey.....buy what ever makes you happy.

Knight
11-04-2008, 1:26 PM
*Looks off into distance* Storm's a comin'. :hide:

CHS
11-04-2008, 1:27 PM
It's an HK upper. It's got a piston in it. HK hates civilian sales, so they won't even put the uppers on the market.

A few leak out, and they want ridiculous amounts of money for them because people think they're something that they really aren't.

If you want an upper that costs as much as 3-4 COMPLETE AR rifles, go ahead. But that won't stop people from laughing at you :)

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/

For a lot less money, you can get a high quality gas piston upper from Addax, he's a sponsor here and a good guy.

sigguy552
11-04-2008, 1:28 PM
Mounts onto a standard AR lower. Make sure you get the hk buffer and spring. You also need to have a M16 hammer so that it clears the carrier safety. It was pretty ghey taking mine to the range for the first time and getting nothing but a "click" when I pulled the trigger.

CHS
11-04-2008, 1:30 PM
Ok, and to actually address your questions:

so from what ive read on HK pro, the hk416 upper should theoretically just mount up to a standard lower?


Yes, that's correct.


anyone can confirm this?


Yes. It's confirmed.


more importantly, can we buy an 416 or 416 upper in CA?


HK is not doing any civilian sales of the 416.


its an amazing setup. i would love to get a complete weapon, but im sure it will be thousands, so getting just the important part with my own lower and accessories. (though the hk stuff its awesome)

It's really not that amazing.

ChrisXD45T
11-04-2008, 1:36 PM
I've handled one.
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii203/cstracuzzi/081808_11391.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii203/cstracuzzi/081808_11361.jpg
It was very nice; quite accurate too.
It is definitely not like a P.O.F. They're both piston operated, but that's about all they have in common.
There is nothing illegal with getting just an upper in CA if someone will permanently attach the flash hider for you before shipping, but good luck finding one for a reasonable price. I don't see myself spending the kind of money people are asking for in order to get one, but hey, like BONECUTTER said, whatever makes you happy.

a1fabweld
11-04-2008, 1:49 PM
It's an HK upper.
If you want an upper that costs as much as 3-4 COMPLETE AR rifles, go ahead. But that won't stop people from laughing at you :).

I agree that it's way overpriced but people laughing at you for owning one?:rolleyes: Do you laugh at a guy driving a Lambo? Yes you can buy a car lot full of Civic's for the price of one. But it's a prestige thing to those who can afford it. The guy who can afford $6k for an upper laughs as he wipes his butt with $100 bills.

aplinker
11-04-2008, 2:02 PM
If we could use SBRs the HK uppers really are good.

LWRC is pretty damned close, too.

If you have $5k burning a hole in your pocket, go ahead.

There are members of this board who have them, too. I've seen a couple.

badicedog
11-04-2008, 2:09 PM
Mounts onto a standard AR lower. Make sure you get the hk buffer and spring. You also need to have a M16 hammer so that it clears the carrier safety. It was pretty ghey taking mine to the range for the first time and getting nothing but a "click" when I pulled the trigger.

A DPMS hammer will suffice. Don't get a M16 hammer, potentially could be a constructive possession issue(unless you convert M16 hammer to AR hammer by filing off the hook ontop.

Ding126
11-04-2008, 2:10 PM
They are not the same as " other " GPU's. They are the best you can buy..believe it or not.( start the flaming ). HK " rumor control " is there might be a civi version for the states ( don't hold your breath ) If I wanted a GPU right now.. I would try the Barrett in 6.8 spc. or LMT....POF's look fugly IMO

Save your money and wait..Unless you shoot full auto, the cost is not justified and 99% of AR shooter are weekender and mall ninja's.

There will be more Mfg's offering GPU's next year or so. ( did I mention Colt? )

Colt's Advanced L.E. Carbine, a newly designed law enforcement weapon system that features a GAS PISTON operating system and one piece upper reciever with integral rail system that allows for easy mounting of accessories and maintains 100% zero at all times. With the 4-position buttstock fully retracted, the Advanced Law Enforcement Carbine is less than 32 in (81 cm) in lenght and weights only 7.03lb, ideal for tactical deployment and traditional patrol. Colt's Advanced L.E. Carbine is available with a step-cut barrel that allows it to accept a grenade launcher for non-lethal options.

Weapon comes complete with Flip-up target style US Military rear MATECH BUIS, flip up front sight, 2-20 round mags, manaul and cleaning kit. It also has 4 forward rails @ 12/3/6/9 o'clock with the 6 o'clock rail removable for grenade launcher attachment



Oh and Hk GPU's are going for 4-5k the 14.5" upper is more $$$ and the 10.5" are around 4K ( supply & demand )

Anything on GB is usually over priced and not a reason to compare what the going rate is for something. IMO

Addax
11-04-2008, 2:25 PM
I have handled the 416, and it is a really nice piston system set up, but the recoil from the system is a little too harsh for my tastes. Other than that, I like the HK416.

Would I spend the $3-$5k asking price?

No.

badicedog
11-04-2008, 2:33 PM
Deals come up from time to time. I didn't spend 3-5K on mine... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/mannysden/IMG_2767.jpg

trinydex
11-04-2008, 3:33 PM
I'm probably wrong, but I once heard that's just essentially the same as the POF upper.

it's not. there are many key differences. the pof upper requires some tall rails which is awkward apparently. it also uses a different piston philosophy than the hk416.

trinydex
11-04-2008, 3:34 PM
If we could use SBRs the HK uppers really are good.

LWRC is pretty damned close, too.

If you have $5k burning a hole in your pocket, go ahead.

There are members of this board who have them, too. I've seen a couple.

i hear the l-dubs are actually available these days...

CHS
11-04-2008, 4:07 PM
I agree that it's way overpriced but people laughing at you for owning one?:rolleyes: Do you laugh at a guy driving a Lambo? Yes you can buy a car lot full of Civic's for the price of one. But it's a prestige thing to those who can afford it. The guy who can afford $6k for an upper laughs as he wipes his butt with $100 bills.

It's not a prestige thing because the people that can buy them are STILL paying 4-5X the cost of a 416 because HK is denying civilian sales.

It's like saying I have a honda civic and an HK civic. They're roughly the same car, but just because I can't get the HK civic, I'm going to pay 5 times more for one. Meanwhile, the guy actually driving the Lambo is laughing at BOTH the civic drivers.

HK 416 is NOT a Lamborghini. It's not even in the same league. It's just a regular gas-piston upper that you can't get.

a1fabweld
11-04-2008, 6:51 PM
It's not a prestige thing because the people that can buy them are STILL paying 4-5X the cost of a 416 because HK is denying civilian sales.

It's like saying I have a honda civic and an HK civic. They're roughly the same car, but just because I can't get the HK civic, I'm going to pay 5 times more for one. Meanwhile, the guy actually driving the Lambo is laughing at BOTH the civic drivers.

HK 416 is NOT a Lamborghini. It's not even in the same league. It's just a regular gas-piston upper that you can't get.

Yes, it is a prestige thing. Why? Because most of us can't afford one & that makes it more appealing to the folks who can. Otherwise, HK diehards would probably pay any price for them just to own them. It's no secret that HK is nice stuff. I haven't heard of the HK Civic though? I would bet money that a 416 would outlast any other AR piston upper (apples for apples) in torture testing.

civilsnake
11-04-2008, 9:04 PM
Yes, it is a prestige thing. Why? Because most of us can't afford one & that makes it more appealing to the folks who can. Otherwise, HK diehards would probably pay any price for them just to own them. It's no secret that HK is nice stuff. I haven't heard of the HK Civic though? I would bet money that a 416 would outlast any other AR piston upper (apples for apples) in torture testing.

I don't think I would call it prestige. People who pay $3-5k for this upper are like the people who bought PS3s online for a 300% markup. There were plenty of other ways to play video games, and a lot of them were just as good or better. But people wanted to have the coveted and hard to obtain. This didn't make them smarter or better gamers, it just proved that some people are willing to pay through the nose to have the current, hottest thing.

You pay for a Lambo because it can do things that few other cars can do. The HK is a piston upper. A well designed piston upper, but a still just a piston upper. And let's not forget, a Corvette Z06 will hang with a Lambo at half the price. AND have racing heritage.

I'm not saying it's not a quality piece of weaponry. It surely is. But it's hard to pretend that it's good enough to command a 400% premium over similar systems.

Astig Boy
11-04-2008, 9:24 PM
I don't think I would call it prestige. People who pay $3-5k for this upper are like the people who bought PS3s online for a 300% markup. There were plenty of other ways to play video games, and a lot of them were just as good or better. But people wanted to have the coveted and hard to obtain. This didn't make them smarter or better gamers, it just proved that some people are willing to pay through the nose to have the current, hottest thing.

You pay for a Lambo because it can do things that few other cars can do. The HK is a piston upper. A well designed piston upper, but a still just a piston upper. And let's not forget, a Corvette Z06 will hang with a Lambo at half the price. AND have racing heritage.

I'm not saying it's not a quality piece of weaponry. It surely is. But it's hard to pretend that it's good enough to command a 400% premium over similar systems.

Agreed! My thoughts exactly.
:D

sigguy552
11-04-2008, 10:19 PM
It's not a prestige thing because the people that can buy them are STILL paying 4-5X the cost of a 416 because HK is denying civilian sales.

It's like saying I have a honda civic and an HK civic. They're roughly the same car, but just because I can't get the HK civic, I'm going to pay 5 times more for one. Meanwhile, the guy actually driving the Lambo is laughing at BOTH the civic drivers.

HK 416 is NOT a Lamborghini. It's not even in the same league. It's just a regular gas-piston upper that you can't get.

bdsmchs, you might want to do some research first. HK is not "denying" civilian sales and would love to be able to sell uppers to civilians but cannot due to 922r. The 416 bbl is a machine gun bbl and cannot be imported for sale to civilians. The only loophole is to buy from a c3 dealer who "chopped" it up after doing a "demo" for LE purposes. Please get the facts straight as there is enough disinformation here.

HK makes some great weapons and the living proof is militaries around the world that have adopted their weapons platforms including SEAL's,CAG and 1st SFOD.

Are they overpriced...some would say so. However, I've never bought an HK weapon and lost money on the resale so I'm happy to pay the premium.

If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

PRODRIVE
11-04-2008, 10:36 PM
i think i would buy sig 550 then just the hk .

trinydex
11-05-2008, 12:28 AM
I don't think I would call it prestige. People who pay $3-5k for this upper are like the people who bought PS3s online for a 300% markup. There were plenty of other ways to play video games, and a lot of them were just as good or better. But people wanted to have the coveted and hard to obtain. This didn't make them smarter or better gamers, it just proved that some people are willing to pay through the nose to have the current, hottest thing.

You pay for a Lambo because it can do things that few other cars can do. The HK is a piston upper. A well designed piston upper, but a still just a piston upper. And let's not forget, a Corvette Z06 will hang with a Lambo at half the price. AND have racing heritage.

I'm not saying it's not a quality piece of weaponry. It surely is. But it's hard to pretend that it's good enough to command a 400% premium over similar systems.

i think you were right up until you talked about the lambo. what can a lambo do that others can't?

aplinker
11-05-2008, 1:05 AM
i think you were right up until you talked about the lambo. what can a lambo do that others can't?

Get you laid.

trinydex
11-05-2008, 1:09 AM
Get you laid.

touche... well played haha

Max-the-Silent
11-05-2008, 5:22 AM
so from what ive read on HK pro, the hk416 upper should theoretically just mount up to a standard lower?

anyone can confirm this?

more importantly, can we buy an 416 or 416 upper in CA?

its an amazing setup. i would love to get a complete weapon, but im sure it will be thousands, so getting just the important part with my own lower and accessories. (though the hk stuff its awesome)

For the amount of money you'd have to spend as a civilian to get the upper, it's a complete waste of money.

I've had significant trigger time with a T. & E. unit our department purchased, and there is a small advantage for military/LE use, but no advantage for civilian semi-auto use.

If you have to get ahold of a gas piston upper to satisfy your GAS, get the LWRC. I've used LWRC's in civilian and NFA flavors, and there's not enough difference between HK and LWRC to justify the cost.

civilsnake
11-05-2008, 5:57 AM
i think you were right up until you talked about the lambo. what can a lambo do that others can't?

I said it can do things FEW others can, and I simply meant that, in the grand scheme, not many cars are as fast as the Lambo. The difference between the driving capabilities of a Gallardo and a 350Z are much greater than the difference in shooting capabilities between the HK and an Addax-built system.

Hkfanatic
11-05-2008, 6:15 AM
being a HUGE H&K freak im gonna chime in on this,

is it overpriced HELL YES but its something that will NEVER loose its value.
i argued with my self when i bought my SP89 from turners almost two decades ago. "do i really want to pay 900$ for an oversized 9mm pistol that is extremely cumbersome?" well that 900$ pistol is worth 4000$ now.

you have to understand the addiction, i would pay stupid money for H&K stuff and so would a ton of other people.

what about those 1911 people. to me a 3000$ STI or 2500$ lesbaer is retarded. and most of the time your NEVER going to get the same money back out of it. give me a 900$ springfield and do a few mods. unless yuor a master competition shooter you wont notice the difference between the two.

if i had 3900$ i would buy a 416 upper, yeah a LW piston upper is just as close and WAYYYYY cheaper. but you know H&K's been around for more then a half a century and have supplied some of the finest arms in the world to military,civi and police forces alike. im willing to bet that they are better designed, better made and made out of better materials.

whats that mean for a guy like me who's not going to be swimming in sand or mud with it. nothing, im never going to test its durability. even if i had a LW upper its not going to be used for the enviorment it was designed for.

but at the end of the day a LW piston upper will just be another AR upper,
but that H&K 416 upper will always be an H&K.

i guess you just have to be a koolaid drinker, we all have our taste's weather it be 1911's, or H&K's ferrari's or corvettes. we all have our own opinion.

a1fabweld
11-05-2008, 7:14 AM
but at the end of the day a LW piston upper will just be another AR upper,
but that H&K 416 upper will always be an H&K.

That pretty much sums it up. Well said!!

civilsnake
11-05-2008, 7:35 AM
is it overpriced HELL YES but its something that will NEVER loose its value.
i argued with my self when i bought my SP89 from turners almost two decades ago. "do i really want to pay 900$ for an oversized 9mm pistol that is extremely cumbersome?" well that 900$ pistol is worth 4000$ now.

you have to understand the addiction, i would pay stupid money for H&K stuff and so would a ton of other people.

i guess you just have to be a koolaid drinker, we all have our taste's weather it be 1911's, or H&K's ferrari's or corvettes. we all have our own opinion.

Most of the time I would agree that the rare HK stuff appreciates. However, this is a case where you're already buying it at an insanely inflated price, so I question its value as an investment.

But for the most part, I imagine you're dead on. HK fanatics make Glock lovers seem rational :p

trinydex
11-05-2008, 11:34 AM
I said it can do things FEW others can, and I simply meant that, in the grand scheme, not many cars are as fast as the Lambo. The difference between the driving capabilities of a Gallardo and a 350Z are much greater than the difference in shooting capabilities between the HK and an Addax-built system.

i wouldn't say that there are few other cars that are as fast as whatever lambo. i'd say there's lots even right out the box, but the panty dropping factor is definitely the highest on the lambo. it must be a girl thing because i don't understand exactly why the lambo drops more panties than say a porsche gt3 cup.... maybe it's the lack of interior in the cup.

civilsnake
11-05-2008, 12:18 PM
i wouldn't say that there are few other cars that are as fast as whatever lambo. i'd say there's lots even right out the box, but the panty dropping factor is definitely the highest on the lambo. it must be a girl thing because i don't understand exactly why the lambo drops more panties than say a porsche gt3 cup.... maybe it's the lack of interior in the cup.

I find that girls don't like race cars. They like expensive, fast looking cars.

And let's be honest, how many cars really approach the performance of an Italian supercar right off the bat? As in, what percentage of vehicles on the road today?

A couple Corvettes, a Nissan, an Audi, a Dodge, a couple Porsches...

Wait, what were we typing about again? Anyway, I say HK416 is not worth the current gouged prices, and the only justified buyer would be a collector who would buy anything HK puts out anyway.

trinydex
11-05-2008, 12:38 PM
I find that girls don't like race cars. They like expensive, fast looking cars.

And let's be honest, how many cars really approach the performance of an Italian supercar right off the bat? As in, what percentage of vehicles on the road today?

A couple Corvettes, a Nissan, an Audi, a Dodge, a couple Porsches...

Wait, what were we typing about again? Anyway, I say HK416 is not worth the current gouged prices, and the only justified buyer would be a collector who would buy anything HK puts out anyway.

amen to the fast LOOKING cars. wonder how much play you can get in an elise or an exige...

i think your list pretty much covers it, there's maybe a few more if you want to include special bmws maybe that mercedes beast (but i can appreciate why you left it off the list)

i believe we were talkin' about "the finer things in life"

civilsnake
11-05-2008, 12:42 PM
i believe we were talkin' about "the finer things in life"

Well, if you compared the HK416 to the 30oz ribeye at Mastros, I might just buy one...