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View Full Version : Do I need to use the large washer on RCBS 357 dies if....


TKCastle
01-17-2017, 12:17 PM
These dies are only going to be used to load 357? Some places say always use, some say its only for when you switch from .38 spcl to 357.

thanks in advance.

OzzieDoc
01-17-2017, 12:46 PM
If you are only going to use them for 357 you don't need the washer. Just set up the dies as you normally would.
The washer is only used if you set up for 38 Spec and want to also load 357.
Even then you only need the washer for the expanding and seating/crimp dies.

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net
01-17-2017, 12:46 PM
Only if you are going to switch between 38 & 357 do you need a .135" washer. Otherwise, set up the dies for the cartridge you want to reload and forget about it. I loaded 357 for 20+ years before loading my first 38.


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BigBronco
01-17-2017, 1:20 PM
The idea be hind that washer is that once you set the lock right guy on the die, you can remove the die and replace it in the press with out resetting the die if you do not unlock the setting to the die. Simply screw it back in the press and get at it. The washer will make the 38 special setting adjustment to 357 by simply adding it below the lock ring. Therefore going from 38 to 357 no adjust should be necessary. This also applies to 44 sp and 44 mag dies.

Whiterabbit
01-17-2017, 1:36 PM
I also use a homemade washer for 45 colt and 460 S&W without changing the die.

ONE case only? I wouldn't bother with a washer.

TKCastle
01-17-2017, 3:35 PM
thanks gents for the info, greatly appreciated. I one were to use the dies for 38 and 357 do you set up the die with washer on 357 and remove for 38 or vise versa?

Divernhunter
01-17-2017, 4:16 PM
I just got a separate die for the 38sp myself. Cheap on e-bay and I got the RCBS die.

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net
01-17-2017, 4:40 PM
thanks gents for the info, greatly appreciated. I one were to use the dies for 38 and 357 do you set up the die with washer on 357 and remove for 38 or vise versa?



Set it up for 38 and add the washer for 357.


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BigBronco
01-17-2017, 4:51 PM
Only add it for the flaring and crimping. Not used for resizing. That setting is the same for both.

stilly
01-17-2017, 10:45 PM
The idea be hind that washer is that once you set the lock right guy on the die, you can remove the die and replace it in the press with out resetting the die if you do not unlock the setting to the die. Simply screw it back in the press and get at it. The washer will make the 38 special setting adjustment to 357 by simply adding it below the lock ring. Therefore going from 38 to 357 no adjust should be necessary. This also applies to 44 sp and 44 mag dies.

WHAT THE ****???? YOU MEAN TO TELL ME ALL THESE YEARS YOU HAVE LET ME SCREW MY DIES IN AND OUT BACK AND FORTH WHILE YOU SECRETLY LAUGHED AT ME BEHIND MY BACK? WHAT KIND OF ****ED UP BULL**** NEWS IS THIS?

I SWEAR I OUGHTA **** AND ******** RIGHT **** ******* TO THE ******* AND THEN **** GO AND **** ALL OVER *******S TO DO THIS AND *****!

THAT IS IT I ********* AM TAKING **** AND GONNA ****** WHEN IT IS ALL DONE AND **** **** *** GONNA SEE WHO IS LAUGHING THEN!


WAIT a second here... WHAT kinda washer we talking about?

Divernhunter
01-17-2017, 11:46 PM
^^^ That is what happens when you buy lee dies instead of quality RCBS dies with the washer and real locking rings.:)

BigBronco
01-18-2017, 9:40 AM
First this is not intended to diss Lee dies. They do the job just fine. The main differences like the car lines Chevy, Buick, Cadillac to Corvette. Though all share similar features and get you from one place to another differ in features and quality.

Now for a comparison of Lee and RCBS. Below there is a picture of two sizing dies for those who lack imagination or are simply in denial.

First RCBS features a lifetime warranty, while Lee does not. While both are tooled steel. With some sizing dies that have a carbide sizing ring pressed in. The Lee dies (right) incorporate a jam nut with an embedded O-ring for locking the dies in place. RCBS has a lock ring. The difference lies that while a jam nut will hold the die in it's set position the setting is lost when the die is removed from the press or tool head. A lock ring will either have a set screw or a clamping mechanism to hold it's position when removed from the press or TH.

Next the RCBS (left) features a jam nut on the seating stem for locking the setting in place while the Lee relies on friction to keep the setting true. The advantage lies with the lock ring that after removing and replacing the die from a press or TH, simply thread it in all the way and it is set and ready to go. Not so with a jam nut, it will need to be reset each time it is returned to the working position.

Now since the RCBS has a lock ring they have included a spacer washes seen at the business end of the die on the left, Switching back and forth from a special cartridge to the magnum cartridge means simply removing the die and replacing it with the spacer ring below the lock ring and vice versa fro magnum and special cases. IMO a great time saving feature over setting dies each and every use.

Now as the OP asked if only using the dies for magnum then no he will never need to use it. However if he did set his dies up with it and someday when he decides he would want to load some special loads he would be set. He could however send it to Stilly so he could see one first hand.

Finally keep in mind the seating stem may still need to be adjusted if the projectile is different from the one the stem was set with.


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/9bigbronco2/MVC-432S_zpsk1kk9b5c.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/9bigbronco2/media/MVC-432S_zpsk1kk9b5c.jpg.html)

stilly
01-18-2017, 10:40 AM
^^^ That is what happens when you buy lee dies instead of quality RCBS dies with the washer and real locking rings.:)


WHAT? THEY COME WITH THAT DAMN WASHER? I ********** KNEW THAT **** AND ***** WOULD **** ****** ******* DO IT SOME DAY!

GAWD THIS IS SO ******* FRUS**********TING!


Okay everyone remain calm. Watch as I calmly and cooly call RCBS and tell them that I lost my washer...



And for YOU Mr. Bronco: I think I prefer the Hornady locking rings over the RCBS. I am paranoid about screwing something directly into the threads like RCBS does, but the locking rings that Hornady supplies seem to do well when it comes to holding onto a die at a certain location. I have also noticed that there are other rings out that, hmm, maybe Lee- let me look Oh yeah, this was what I was thinking of: https://www.extremereloadingnv.com/lee-precision/lockring-eliminator-2pcs-100567 No nevermind.

There are pros and cons to both, The ones with the screws sticking straight out AND the ones with the screws on the side (like I like) will bump up against others on smaller platforms. The Lee seems to maybe excel there, but I personally do not care to use the rubber o-rings. I prefer to use the Hornady locking rings since they clench the threads by friction and they do NOT dig into the threads. Yes, I understand they are brass screws, but still, I have an issue with that.

BigBronco
01-18-2017, 10:43 AM
Then if you drill and tap your jam nut, put in a brass set screw you will be in heaven.

fguffey
01-18-2017, 11:41 AM
In the big inning RCBS made 38 Special dies, and then reloaders purchases 357 Pistols. A very few of us old reloaders did not purchases the new 357 Mag die because we adjusted our dies ever time we used out dies meaning the very first RCBS die set would reloade 38 Special and 357 Magnum.

Problem; the 357 Reloading die set would not crimp 38 Special case. And then it got better the first die set had the primer punch on the expander die and no threads in the sizing die for a primer punch assemble, so they started over with threads in the sizing die and no primer punch on the neck expander die.

And then they made an effort to make everyone happy with an aluminum die body.

So what they needed was a reloader that adjusted their dies ever time they use them and all they needed to do to convert from 38 Special to 357 Magnmum was a washer to raise the crimp section in the seating die to crimp 357 Mag. cases.

F. Guffey

stilly
01-18-2017, 12:27 PM
Hmmmmm. So then TWO washers will get me a .357 MAXIMUM then?

:D

357magnum
01-18-2017, 12:37 PM
I use RCBS dies with Hornady Lock rings, they hold much better than the RCBS Lock rings and don't mess up the threads on the die.
I load mainly 357 magnum and use the spacer ring.
I seat and crimp in two separate steps.
Once I have my crimp set, I tighten the Lock ring. I use the spacer ring while seating bullets, so there is no crimp.
After all seating is done, remove die, loosen or remove seating plug and spacer ring. Reinstall die without spacer ring and your set to crimp without adjusting die every time.

tonyjr
01-18-2017, 1:57 PM
I use shim washers on all my dies . A little slip and you gouge . I hate the o-rings and I don't use the set screw nuts . The set screw mess up the threads

fguffey
01-18-2017, 2:38 PM
I use shim washers on all my dies . A little slip and you gouge . I hate the o-rings and I don't use the set screw nuts . The set screw mess up the threads

I secure the die to the press with the lock ring, I do not secure the lock ring to the die.

F. Guffey

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net
01-18-2017, 3:25 PM
If the set screw is messing up your threads, remove the set screw, insert a piece of #7 or 8 shot and reinsert the set screw. Or buy the Lyman lock rings.


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Dougbert66
01-18-2017, 7:23 PM
Second the recommendation for Hornady locking rings. No thread marring and they stay put. Get them by the six pack on sale for $15-18 (Midway, Amazon, PSA, etc.) and upgrade all of your dies.

M1NM
01-18-2017, 9:00 PM
^^^ That is what happens when you buy lee dies instead of quality RCBS dies with the washer and real locking rings.:)

My RCBS dies didn't come with a washer when I bought them about 45 years ago. You snowflakes are pampered with washers.

stilly
01-18-2017, 9:05 PM
If the set screw is messing up your threads, remove the set screw, insert a piece of #7 or 8 shot and reinsert the set screw. Or buy the Lyman lock rings.


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But all my shot is steel :( :confused:


I kid I kid. But I had heard about doing that some time ago. Makes me want to test it out now and see how it works...

OzzieDoc
01-19-2017, 12:18 AM
Second the recommendation for Hornady locking rings. No thread marring and they stay put. Get them by the six pack on sale for $15-18 (Midway, Amazon, PSA, etc.) and upgrade all of your dies.

+1 on the Hornady lock rings.

Dislike the RCBS/Lyman set screw lock rings. not because they mark the threads. that can be avoided easily, but because they tend to tip the die a little and cause alignment issues.

Nothing wrong with the Lee lock rings either when used in certain circumstances, such as locking dies into bushing inserts.

Now don't get me started on RCBS dies either. As a happy owner of LOTS of RCBS dies of 80's and 90's vintage, I won't buy recent production RCBS.

fguffey
01-19-2017, 3:03 AM
+1 on the Hornady lock rings.

Dislike the RCBS/Lyman set screw lock rings. not because they mark the threads. that can be avoided easily, but because they tend to tip the die a little and cause alignment issues.

Nothing wrong with the Lee lock rings either when used in certain circumstances, such as locking dies into bushing inserts.

Now don't get me started on RCBS dies either. As a happy owner of LOTS of RCBS dies of 80's and 90's vintage, I won't buy recent production RCBS.

Again, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring; do not secure the ring to the die. When it comes to engaging threads I want all the threads engaged I can get.

F. Guffey

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net
01-19-2017, 5:24 AM
But all my shot is steel :( :confused:





I kid I kid. But I had heard about doing that some time ago. Makes me want to test it out now and see how it works...



You know it's going to drive you crazy until you do.


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tonyjr
01-19-2017, 6:53 AM
If you want the lead , go to fishing section and buy spilt shot or just buy some lead pellets . You can also chip off a piece from lead wheel weights .
Set screw can / will cock the die and this will put a strain on the threads tool head . I use these -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321417124405
They help / keep me from marring the tool head .

stilly
01-19-2017, 1:28 PM
Yes yes it will... Incoming shot today possibly...

Hey though, if you use those Hornady lock rings though, AND washers, then you could possibly use 3-5 washers or so to raise or lower your lock rings so that they do not bump against other die lock rings yes?

All the more reason to get the Hornady rings now.

BTW, Brian in Reload OC had a 6 pack or two for I THINK Under $20, they might have been regular priced or on sale, but I wanna say they were between $12-$15 + tax I THINK. This was some time last year though.

Thanks for that link Tony. I might have to have a closer look at those.

tonyjr
01-19-2017, 3:01 PM
stilly
No problem . Like I posted before , I use all 5 stations on the load master .
The washers help a whole bunch by keeping the box wrench from touching
and scratching / gouging tool head .
I buy 100 at a time . You may wish to do other wise , but I do 2 , 3 , 1 , 2
and 1 . The powder dump gets 3 washers .