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SKSer
11-01-2008, 9:57 AM
Hey guys i tried to search for some info, but could not find an answer to my question so I apologize if I sound like a tard, and if youve answered this like 100 times, but what is the point of a dedicated .22lr upper vs. just going with a ciener or similar conversion kit?

supersonic
11-01-2008, 10:23 AM
I have a buddy who just bought one of my spare Stag-15 lowers for a brand new CZ .22 upper. I tried to explain how versatile the conversion system is, and that he could have several weapons systems with just ONE convenient platform. He simply stated that he had no interest in the .223, but wanted an AR plinker. No interest in bottleneck reloading (he reloads EVERYTHING he shoots). I, on the other hand, have a sneaking suspicion that he just isn't comfortable with having this "OLL" be a centerfire, as he hasn't been able to wrap his head around the fact that that it is perfectly legal. And get this: He's a lawyer & has many "friends" in the LE community. So maybe he's telling me how it really is, as I have ZERO reason to ever think he wouldn't be truthful with me (or anyone else for that matter). It's just that you don't have a "true" AR-15 if it ONLY shoots .22lr. Yeah, it's fun to plink around with. But, after shooting them for so long, the truth is that the "fun factor" of a .22lr semi-auto "AR" isn't even in the same league by a LIGHTYEAR than a real 5.56mm brass rainbow maker. The Ceiner kits are the way to go. I'm buying one this week!!!!!!:D

aplinker
11-01-2008, 10:56 AM
A barrel designed for .22lr instead of .223 - both in diameter and twist - is the biggest difference. Both are different enough that a dedicated .22lr will see dividends in accuracy.

Toolbox X
11-01-2008, 11:06 AM
Dedicated .22LR uppers, like the ones from Spikes or Model 1 Sales are more accurate than drop-in kits.

First, a drop-in kit put's a short smoothbore piece into the 5.56 chamber. The .22LR bullet must pass through the smoothbore before it hits the rifling of the 5.56 barrel.

Second, .22LR rounds require a 1/16" barrel twist for optimum accuracy, and most AR barrels are 1/9" or 1/7".

Third, if you are an aesthetics freak like me, the dedicated .22LR uppers have the barrel start 1-1.5" inside the chamber, which shortens the length of the exposed barrel by that much, giving you the look of a 14.5" barrel compared to a 16".

Drop-in kits are excellent and I recommend the ones from Spikes whole-heartedly. Under 35 yard they are plenty accurate. It's only if you want to maximize the AR-22 rifle that a dedicated upper makes sense. Given the cost of 5.56, and the joy I get from shooting .22LR, my Spikes upper was a no brainer. It is hands down the most fun rifle I own.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j97/Toolbox-X/AR-22/IMG_3566.jpg

nobs11
11-01-2008, 11:50 AM
A dedicated upper will be more accurate as stated above.

But no matter how much money you throw at it the uppers on the market today are not as accurate as a good 10/22 that will end up costing considerably less.

Toolbox X
11-01-2008, 11:55 AM
A dedicated upper will be more accurate as stated above.

But no matter how much money you throw at it the uppers on the market today are not as accurate as a good 10/22 that will end up costing considerably less.

I have a 10/22 as well, but it's a totally different kind of rifle for totally different purposes. I recommend everyone have a 10/22 in their collection. That being said, I hate 10/22 mags, and BlackDogg mags are the most reliable .22LR mags ever.

SKSer
11-01-2008, 1:59 PM
thanks guys for all the info, it makes alot more sense now, so if you dont care to much about accuracy then the drop in kit is cool, I was just wondering if there was a damage factor to the .223/556 upper, good no know. thanks again

BroncoBob
11-01-2008, 2:32 PM
Dedicated 22lr upper is the only way to go.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-013F-1.jpg

Army
11-01-2008, 3:03 PM
Also, the Ca AW law ONLY specifies centerfire rifles. Meaning, you can have all the folding/collapsing stocks, flashhiders, forward pistol grips you want.

SKSer
11-01-2008, 3:08 PM
Also, the Ca AW law ONLY specifies centerfire rifles. Meaning, you can have all the folding/collapsing stocks, flashhiders, forward pistol grips you want.

how does it work if your lower says "cal 5.56", do they go off the lower or what the rifle is built as?

nobs11
11-01-2008, 3:30 PM
how does it work if your lower says "cal 5.56", do they go off the lower or what the rifle is built as?

Caliber markings don't mean anything. A cop might bust you for that but it should be easy to argue that you can only chamber 22lr rounds in it.

Some people prefer to have uppers that are marked 22 or "multi" but it is unnecessary.

SKSer
11-02-2008, 6:26 AM
thanks guys for all you info, its helped out alot.

dchang0
11-02-2008, 10:35 AM
If they went off the lower, then we could all buy Spike's .22LR-marked lowers and build out some nice 5.56-ers! That would be freakin' SWEET!

I considered the 10/22 route, but those damned magazines... Plus, it's nice to get practice time on the AR-platform to build muscle memory.

Has anyone posted a head-to-head review of the Spike's Lothar-Walther barrels versus the Spike's Shaw barrels versus the other dedicated .22LR uppers? I've googled like crazy and only found assertions that "of course the Lothar-Walther barrel will be better," but no real tests of the two.

stphnman20
11-10-2008, 9:58 AM
Also, the Ca AW law ONLY specifies centerfire rifles. Meaning, you can have all the folding/collapsing stocks, flashhiders, forward pistol grips you want.
What about the barrel length? Does it have to be min 16??

stphnman20
11-10-2008, 11:08 AM
Or can I have a bbl less then 16in for a 22 rifle?

Silverfish
11-10-2008, 6:25 PM
Not that it really answers you question but I was split on going dedicated 22lr or not. I ended up sorta in the middle. I went with a 1/12 twist lightweight 16" CMMG 5.56 upper and a 22lr conversion. This way I was closer to the 1/15 -1/16 twist of a dedicated 22lr but I still had the option to shoot 5.56 if need be. I realy like how it turned out. You'll have tons of fun on the cheap either way.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii209/dykefish/spikes010.jpg

Mssr. Eleganté
11-10-2008, 7:11 PM
What about the barrel length? Does it have to be min 16??


Yes, the minimum barrel length is still 16 inches, even on rimfire rifles.

However, with a dedicated .22LR upper you can have a 16 inch barrel that looks like it is 14.5 inches. That's because a dedicated .22LR barrel needs to sit 1.5 inches further back in the upper in order to work.

Dragon
11-10-2008, 7:41 PM
Caliber markings don't mean anything. A cop might bust you for that but it should be easy to argue that you can only chamber 22lr rounds in it.

Some people prefer to have uppers that are marked 22 or "multi" but it is unnecessary.

Who else makes a stamped 22lr lower other than spikes,and are they the same quality as the spikes?

Mssr. Eleganté
11-10-2008, 11:38 PM
Who else makes a stamped 22lr lower other than spikes,and are they the same quality as the spikes?

Before Spike's had the 22LR marked lowers I got a couple of 22LR marked lowers from Lauer Custom Weaponry. They make a lower with no caliber markings and they also do custom engraving, so I had them engrave .22LR on one side and "RIMFIRE RIFLE" on the other. The custom engraving added $65 to the cost of each lower.

The stamped .22LR markings on my Spike's lowers look much nicer than the engraved markings on my Lauers and the Spike's were $50 less per lower.

slick_711
11-12-2008, 5:07 PM
I'm seeing lots of good reviews on the Spikes dedicated .22LR upper and am going to pick up a few of them. I have one question that I haven't seen answered on the Spikes website though (or here yet).

Being that it's a .22 bolt system, is there any needed difference in the recoil spring/buffer? I would like to buy a handful of these and use them interchangeably with my .223 rifles for the sake of saving money on ammo.

Is the bolt & it's cycling self contained or would I need to seal/change the .223 recoil spring assemblies when shooting .22?

BroncoBob
11-12-2008, 6:11 PM
They don't use recoil buffer springs.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-027F-2.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-028F.jpg

Mssr. Eleganté
11-12-2008, 6:13 PM
Yes, the Spike's bolt's cycling is self contained. You can leave your lower set up the same as when you use a centerfire upper. I just left the buffer and buffer springs out of my builds, since the lowers are only used with the rimfire uppers. But it will also work with a regular buffer and spring still in the stock.

slick_711
11-12-2008, 7:26 PM
Awesome. I figured that was the case, but had yet to actually handle one. Thank you both for the pictures and quick replies. :)