PDA

View Full Version : 21 to DROS a rifle now?


Capt. Speirs
10-31-2008, 6:03 PM
My son (18) was told today he could not DROS a rifle because the FFL had the new forms (yellow) that states you have to 21 to DROS a rifle. What the heck. He just DROS'd a rifle on Wednesday.

Patriot
10-31-2008, 6:06 PM
As far as I know the "21 yo" requirement only applies to items that are now considered non- rifle/shotguns under the new 4473, such as stripped lowers.

Search around, this has been discussed in several threads.

Capt. Speirs
10-31-2008, 6:10 PM
As far as I know the "21 yo" requirement only applies to items that are now considered non- rifle/shotguns under the new 4473, such as stripped lowers.

Search around, this has been discussed in several threads.

Bingo, that's it, he tried to DROS a Stag lower. I ended up with it. They didn't explain that, I assumed it was rifles, since I asked "isn't the lower considered a rifle?" Their response was, we can ship it to Ammobros and the can DROS it for him, they have the old forms.

CSDGuy
10-31-2008, 6:10 PM
The law still is 18 for complete rifles and shotguns. He should have been allowed to DROS the rifle, assuming it wasn't a stripped receiver...

Patriot
10-31-2008, 6:11 PM
Bingo, that's it, he tried to DROS a Stag lower. I ended up with it.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=125032
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124598
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=127028
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=127606
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=128306

The last link suggests that the deadline may have been bumped back. Not being familiar with the details, I'll defer comment to someone who is (such as one of our FFLs).

Young Version
10-31-2008, 8:11 PM
So I can no longer DROS a stripped lower?

I'm 19.

CSDGuy
10-31-2008, 8:21 PM
So I can no longer DROS a stripped lower?

I'm 19.
Correct.

Young Version
10-31-2008, 8:22 PM
Correct.

I guess my timing was right, then, although this still angers me.

aplinker
10-31-2008, 8:23 PM
You can still DROS a complete lower.

leitung
10-31-2008, 8:23 PM
I was told by Ryan at JK Supply that the Deadline for using the new forms is Nov. 15. Being 20, I slipped right under the wire with my stripped retro AR lower. I dros'd my lower tuesday with no problem. I guess my next AR build is gonna have to wait a year.. :(

bohoki
10-31-2008, 8:26 PM
a stripped lower is not a rifle

hmm is a pistolgrip shotgun (from the factory)not a longarm anymore?

you know the ones that the atf allows you to register as an aow

Quiet
11-01-2008, 12:03 AM
a stripped lower is not a rifle

hmm is a pistolgrip shotgun (from the factory)not a longarm anymore?

you know the ones that the atf allows you to register as an aow

I believe pistol grip shotgun was never a "longarm".
Due to the fact that you need to be 21 or older to buy one and when you reduce the barrel to less than 18" and/or OAL to less than 26" it becomes an AOW instead of a SBS.

ke6guj
11-01-2008, 12:33 AM
hmm is a pistolgrip shotgun (from the factory)not a longarm anymore?

you know the ones that the atf allows you to register as an aow


I believe pistol grip shotgun was never a "longarm".
Due to the fact that you need to be 21 or older to buy one and when you reduce the barrel to less than 18" and/or OAL to less than 26" it becomes an AOW instead of a SBS.

A PG-only shotgun is a longgun, but is not a "shotgun" by federal definitioin since it never had a shoulder stock and is not designed to be fired from the shoulder. Since it is not a "shotgun", you must be 21 to buy one, since 18-20 year olds can only buy rifles and shotguns.

And since it is not a shotgun, when it is cut down to to less than 18"/26", it becomes a pistol, an unconventional pistol at that since it is a smooth-bore. It is not a federal SBS, since per federal regs, only shotguns can become short-barreled shotguns, and since a PGO shotgun was never a shotgun (since it never had a stock), it can't become an SBS. But, if you do put a stock on it, then it can become an SBS.

That restriction on only shotguns becoming SBSs only applies to the feds. CA says any firearm that can shoot a shotgun shell that is less than 18"/26" is an SBS, even if it was never a shoulder-fired shotgun. But, an approved AOW is exempt from all of 12020, including the SBS prohibitions.

tenpercentfirearms
11-01-2008, 8:40 AM
I stopped DROSing them to under 21s on October 7th when I found out about it. Illegal is illegal and a deadline sounds like a set-up line to me.
I go to the new forms tomorrow.

bohoki
11-01-2008, 10:59 AM
I stopped DROSing them to under 21s on October 7th when I found out about it. Illegal is illegal and a deadline sounds like a set-up line to me.
I go to the new forms tomorrow.


what if the 19 year old brings in and installs an upper and buttstock just shove in the 2 pins put the tube on hand tight and use a screwdriver on the buttstock screw?

tenpercentfirearms
11-01-2008, 11:13 AM
what if the 19 year old brings in and installs an upper and buttstock just shove in the 2 pins put the tube on hand tight and use a screwdriver on the buttstock screw?

Then excise tax is due.

bohoki
11-01-2008, 12:57 PM
Then excise tax is due.

why you(ten percent firearms) didn't make it and a person is allowed to make a few firearms a year

As of October 1, 2005, any pistol, revolver, or firearm that was manufactured, produced or imported by a person who manufactures, produces or imports less than an aggregate of 50 such articles during the calendar year is now exempt from the tax.


http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faqs.shtml

ke6guj
11-01-2008, 1:14 PM
even though the FET may not be due if the dealer makes less than 50 items per year, he is still acting as a manufacturer, and must have an 07 FFL, not an 01 FFL. With an 07 comes additional expenses, must be zoned for manufacturing, not just sales, and now must register with the U.S. State dept. and pay $2250 per year in ITAR fees.

dgc357
11-01-2008, 1:22 PM
I am 19 and I just started the DROS for my POF gen III on monday. The FFL had not started using the new forms yet.:jump:

Capt. Speirs
11-01-2008, 3:53 PM
So I can no longer DROS a stripped lower?

I'm 19.

No, according to J and J Armory, you can DROS a stripped lower till jan 15 if you have the old forms, they only have the new ones. Who knows?

bohoki
11-02-2008, 12:06 AM
even though the FET may not be due if the dealer makes less than 50 items per year, he is still acting as a manufacturer, and must have an 07 FFL, not an 01 FFL. With an 07 comes additional expenses, must be zoned for manufacturing, not just sales, and now must register with the U.S. State dept. and pay $2250 per year in ITAR fees.

the dealer is not making it the customer is

ke6guj
11-02-2008, 12:19 AM
the dealer is not making it the customer isthat would be something that would need to clarified with ATF, but AFAIK, they take the position that the receiver is not the customer's until it is 4473'd, and until then belongs to the FFL. Any customization of the receiver or parts added when belonging to the FFL appears to be a manufacturing process.

I would look at these links for more info about ATF's stance on manufacturing.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=116252
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/081508manufacturing-of-firearms.pdf

Moonclip
11-02-2008, 3:48 AM
the dealer is not making it the customer is

Seems too grey an area that many FFL's are going to say no to, ask ATF for a ruling.

And the pg only shotgun info is correct, we had this go around a year or two ago when many here called me a liar and said it was not true and Bwiese and I found otherwise and proved it...

doughboy334
11-03-2008, 12:43 AM
Good thing I got my lower back in June. Looks like I'm out of the BRD game until March :(