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webcruzzer
01-10-2017, 8:21 AM
Has any one tried the new cfe blk powder for 300 blackout?? I just received a 8 lbs jug from PV among other goodies. But I was wondering if anyone has used this powder yet and how were the results? I will be starting with 150gr fmjbt and will be getting heavier bullets as soon as I can score some for a good price.

Jimi Jah
01-10-2017, 9:15 AM
Tell us if it burns cleaner, I usually use Varget.

bigdawg86
01-10-2017, 10:18 AM
I was just researching this powder for subsonic use ... I use Lil Gun for my 150g FMJBT loads and got an average of 1985FPS of a 16" barrel. I long time ago I picked up some Palmetto Projectiles 203g powder coated lead bullets to try but couldn't get them to cycle. I was curious about the CFE BLK to use for subs in my Blackout pistol build... Those bullets are pretty cheap for 1k and that would make a great subsonic target round. Now if only I could get a supressor.

webcruzzer
01-10-2017, 10:38 AM
The only way we will be able to get a suppressor is if shooting ranges open up near the liberal houses and have to listen to the "noise".

dwalker
01-10-2017, 11:33 AM
I picked up a lb of it to try. I normally run my 300Blk supersonic even when it has the can on it, and have never really worked up any subsonic loads. For my 300Blk standard load I use a 125gr Speer TNT over H110 and its a super nice and accurate round. I use CFE223 and CFEPistol for .223 and 9mm loads, and they both shoot pretty clean.

bigdawg86
01-10-2017, 3:21 PM
Tagging this thread. I only shoot supersonics and run 110-125's, so H110 is the optimal powder for me. I get the CFE part, but I don't get the numbers not showing the same performance in the spectrum I'm interested in. There are clearly better powders for subsonics, so why use this over H110? I'm interested to hear, I like CFE223 and I just picked up a pound of CFE Pistol even though it really makes no sense.
AA 1680 is number 68 on the burn chart and CFE BLK is 69... Isn't AA 1680 the go to for subs making this a decent comparison?

dwalker
01-10-2017, 3:25 PM
My very preliminary opinion is this will be a good powder for throwing 125gr bullets in competition or hunting. The chamber pressure is pretty low at around 1950fps, which would make it a nice soft shooting load at a reasonable velocity.

I love CFEPistol, very consistent, meters well, and CLEAN.

PatC415
01-10-2017, 3:45 PM
Yes, please let us know how clean it burns.
I'm a H110/Lil Gun/W296 guy, but it's SOOOOO dirty. 4227 as well.

bigdawg86
01-10-2017, 4:54 PM
I'm not curious about this powder because its copper fouling eraser, or because it burns cleaner... But I am curious because it may increase brick and mortar availability of powder for the 300 Blackout

dwalker
01-10-2017, 7:24 PM
I guess I'm just hot on CFE's for copper bullets, I loaded a ton of those cheap Copperheads in 556 and I hunt with Barnes 110's in 300 BLK. Highly compressed loads don't set well with me from Hodgdon's load data, which on H110 is conservative compared to Sierra's and Barne's (but not Nosler's).

Can't imagine using copper for subs, but as a Kalifornian I can't play that game to begin with. Can't imagine copper fouling from jackets being an issue in subs, anymore than in pistols, but again, not in that game.

I am not sure what bothers you, the CFE element is provided by the addition of bismuth in the powder that when the rifle is shot bonds with the copper in the bore, makes it brittle and the next shot causes it to break up and go right out the bore. I have Nosler and Hornady 77's and 75's that have been loaded over CFE223 for over a year and they still shoot fine.

webcruzzer
02-04-2017, 9:30 AM
I loaded up some test rounds with the CFE BLK and started to install my 16" blackout barrel. Then found out that I dont have a pistol length gas tube. I thought I did but a I was mistaken. Parts are on order and in the mean time I will make more brass.

bigdawg86
02-04-2017, 10:41 AM
I loaded up some test rounds with the CFE BLK and started to install my 16" blackout barrel. Then found out that I dont have a pistol length gas tube. I thought I did but a I was mistaken. Parts are on order and in the mean time I will make more brass.

I just picked up some CFE BLK to try... it will be here Wednesday since not a single store in the IE seems to have it (or AA1680).

I have a 16" rifle with a carbine gas port and a 8.5" pistol.
I have some palmetto projectiles 203g coated lead and some 220g SMK'sto try.

Would it make most sense to do the load testing for the 16" rifle? Seems as if it stays subsonic and functions the rifle, then the pistol should be fine too?

tonyjr
02-04-2017, 12:58 PM
A lot will depend on pistol .
No knowing the twist , if a revolver or semi auto -
If the bullet spins too fast or leaves gun with too much pressure ,
tne pill / bullet came come apart .
I would contact Hodgdon with make and model of pistol and rifle -
I would do it by email - too easy to forget what they say and a lot
easier to look at email later .

bigdawg86
02-04-2017, 1:06 PM
A lot will depend on pistol .
No knowing the twist , if a revolver or semi auto -
If the bullet spins too fast or leaves gun with too much pressure ,
tne pill / bullet came come apart .
I would contact Hodgdon with make and model of pistol and rifle -
I would do it by email - too easy to forget what they say and a lot
easier to look at email later .

When I say pistol... I am speaking of AR pistol. 1:8 twist. Pistol Gas port.
Considering 220g SMK's are for the 308 which is going to be more than 1000FPS faster than subsonic, I don't anticipate an issue.

FLIGHT762
02-04-2017, 1:31 PM
Someone chime in who has a can of CFE BLK powder. See if it's marked where the powder is manufactured. If it's USA, I'd put money on it's SMP WC 680 with a bit of CFE added.

webcruzzer
02-04-2017, 1:36 PM
the jug says "made in the usa"

bigdawg86
02-04-2017, 1:45 PM
Should have gotten a pistol length barrel, I have a bunch of cheap "match" commercial ammo I bought to get headstamped brass - it was literally cheaper than empty brass - that won't cycle in my carbine length DD upper. I guess that's why it was on sale at a huge discount, probably should just pull the 125 gr SMK's and use them in a Garand load.

Saw your post about the gas tube, I HATE when that happens. I just got a shipment from Midway yesterday with some of those annoying "awwww $h!t I'm missing one thing" items.
My 16" Carbine cycles 150g bullets no problem... I have some 110 supers ready for testing. We'll see if it cycles. My thoughts were supersonic bullets with the 16" rifle, and when I move out of state I will SBR and suppress the pistol for subsonic

brianinca
02-04-2017, 1:50 PM
My 16" Carbine cycles 150g bullets no problem... I have some 110 supers ready for testing. We'll see if it cycles. My thoughts were supersonic bullets with the 16" rifle, and when I move out of state I will SBR and suppress the pistol for subsonic

It's just that particular crummy commercial load, I've not had a problem with a single handload I've worked up. I may know someone who tried pulled M2 AP's from 1942 ammo, at 164 gr or so - they functioned perfectly. albeit supersonically.

tonyjr
02-04-2017, 2:25 PM
I have the new 2017 Hodgdon manual .
Page 117 - Starts the listings for 308s . It does not list CFE BLK onlY CFE 223
Page 127 - lists the 762 russian as using CFE BLK .
It has not been on shelves here - at least when I was there . Has anyone opened to see if the powder is flake , log or ball ?
There is a couple of pages in the new manual on CFE BLK , but no listings
for any of my pistols and probably way to fast for magnums .
From what I gather , it needs a long barrel to build up the pressure .
There are several references to the 300 black out .
It looks like we need a bunch of Guinea pigs .

bigdawg86
02-04-2017, 2:25 PM
It's just that particular crummy commercial load, I've not had a problem with a single handload I've worked up. I may know someone who tried pulled M2 AP's from 1942 ammo, at 164 gr or so - they functioned perfectly. albeit supersonically.
I actually swaged to 308 then loaded 2k pulled 7.62x54r projectiles... That's kinda what's fun about the 300 Blackout, pretty much any bullet will work.

But I will post results once I get my CFE BLK loaded up.

McGuiver
02-04-2017, 9:15 PM
I have the new 2017 Hodgdon manual .
Page 117 - Starts the listings for 308s . It does not list CFE BLK onlY CFE 223
Page 127 - lists the 762 russian as using CFE BLK .
It has not been on shelves here - at least when I was there . Has anyone opened to see if the powder is flake , log or ball ?
There is a couple of pages in the new manual on CFE BLK , but no listings
for any of my pistols and probably way to fast for magnums .
From what I gather , it needs a long barrel to build up the pressure .
There are several references to the 300 black out .
It looks like we need a bunch of Guinea pigs .



I have picked up one pound of CFE BLK for my 7.62x39 loads. Can't wait to load them up and try them. CFE BLK is supposed to be a ball powder. It should meter very well.

There are listing for pistol rounds. I have seen some for 460 and 500 S&W magnums...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/d5662b6ea6e763e3a2b1a673c6f0dd4c.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/38da1b78e42d7761e46b3a5a4f6644f6.jpg

I'm hoping Hodgdon releases load data for 45-70 for CFE-BLK...it is right next to Reloader 7.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/ad0753bf75cbe809bc119b84699248d4.jpg

The CFE BLK looks like Hodgdon's answer to Alliant's Reloader 7.

I have been using Reloader 7 in my 7.62x39 loads, 40gr 223 projectiles in 5.56 loads, and my 45-70 loads.

So far CFE BLK looks like it overlaps 7.62x39 and more. I have high hopes for this powder. I also like the other CFE powder "CFE 223" in my 5.56 loads except when I use 80gr projectiles.



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tonyjr
02-05-2017, 7:31 AM
McGuiver -
Where did you find your info ?
What I found was they developed it for the 223 . Yes they said
It is spiral / ball .
Right now , I am happy with CFE , CFE pistol , CFE rifle and
CFE 223 . [ right now I have hs 6 , hp 38 , H 110 , Varigant
and CFE , CFE pistol , CFE rifle and CFE 223 .
I would like to find a hodgdon ball that works in the 308 . Not happy with the way Varigant meters .

H3nchman
02-05-2017, 8:19 AM
I don't shoot 300 blk, but check out Jonny's reloading bench on YouTube. He has extensive videos on this powder.

McGuiver
02-05-2017, 10:40 AM
McGuiver -
Where did you find your info ?
What I found was they developed it for the 223 . Yes they said
It is spiral / ball .
Right now , I am happy with CFE , CFE pistol , CFE rifle and
CFE 223 . [ right now I have hs 6 , hp 38 , H 110 , Varigant
and CFE , CFE pistol , CFE rifle and CFE 223 .
I would like to find a hodgdon ball that works in the 308 . Not happy with the way Varigant meters .



Here is where I go to for my initial load data...

Pistol...
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Rifle...
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Shotgun...
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

I also picked up the new Hodgdon magazine that has a whole bunch of CFE BLK data. I know online is cool, but if the SHTF, you may want a hard copy...


Hodgdon list CFE 223 for use in 308. Have you tried it?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/ba7aac437d83587a6dc7bfecabf324bc.jpg







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dwalker
02-05-2017, 10:49 AM
McGuiver -
Where did you find your info ?
What I found was they developed it for the 223 . Yes they said
It is spiral / ball .
Right now , I am happy with CFE , CFE pistol , CFE rifle and
CFE 223 . [ right now I have hs 6 , hp 38 , H 110 , Varigant
and CFE , CFE pistol , CFE rifle and CFE 223 .
I would like to find a hodgdon ball that works in the 308 . Not happy with the way Varigant meters .

There are only 3 CFE powders- CFE Pistol, CFE223, and CFEBLK, so not sure what others your referring too?

CFEBLK was developed specifically for the 300BLK although it will work with some pistol and other loads, it was not in any way developed for the .223, and there are no loads listed anywhere for CFEBLK for a .223 that I can find. So not sure what your talking about?

CFE223- which is a totally different powder- was developed specifically for use in the 223 loads and does work well for it, but again is does NOT work for the 300BLK at all.

tonyjr
02-05-2017, 1:51 PM
Sorry about that
My memory is bad - I thought it said 223 - instead it said 300 B O .
I don't have either one [ gun ] - I copied this -
Hodgdon CFE BLK is a spherical powder that was originally developed for subsonic 300 Blackout loads. This excellent rifle propellant utilizes the Hodgdon CFE formula, Copper Fouling Eraser, virtually eliminating copper fouling, clean burning and minimal muzzle flash. For competitive shooters and hand loaders seeking the perfect powder for target or self-defense loads, CFE BLK provides optimum performance in cartridges like the 300 AAC Blackout, 17 Hornet, 221 Fireball, 6.8 Remington SPC and 7.62x39mm .
---
As for CFE rifle and CFE - I checked - I don't have either .
I did find I am down to 1 lb of CFE pistol .
So Thanks . That goes on list for next weekend at gun show in San Jose .
I just checked my notes
I used the CFE 223 in the 270 and for the 308 [ I have varget for both but it is a really dirty powder ]
While looking at notes , I saw I have been using H110 for the carbine as
well as the magnums . My memory said I was using HS 6 or HP 38 - wrong again .
Thanks again - I really don't mind being wrong as long as I find out before doing something stupid . I do mark my powders with masking tape --
for - H110 = magnums and carbine

McGuiver
02-11-2017, 11:33 PM
I just loaded up my first ladder load set for this powder. This is really fine ball powder.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/352364c0a129b34b639c4325612fb94f.jpg

You can see a few balls have jumped out of the pan on the scale.

So I loaded up using this data...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/8b426edddb171d271d0cd69f7123f12f.jpg

Brass - PPU 7.62x39

Primer - CCI #34 (NATO Spec)

Powder - CFE BLK

Bullet - Hornady 123gr 7.62x39 FMJ (.310 dia)

OAL - 2.150"

***

Loaded 5 rounds at each powder charge. Loaded starting with the min. Bumped up the charge 0.2 grains every time.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/54ae1ae09cb9e33d1c42faec26859547.jpg





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bigdawg86
02-11-2017, 11:51 PM
I need a digital scale.

McGuiver
02-12-2017, 6:25 AM
I need a digital scale.



I verify with a beam scale every powder drop while loading the ladder load. I want to eliminate most variables. The auto trickler and digital scale I used are new to me. I purchased them from another member of CALGUNS. They are made by PACT.

http://pact.com/products/digital-precision-powder-scale-and-dispenser/


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McGuiver
02-26-2017, 5:29 AM
I verify with a beam scale every powder drop while loading the ladder load. I want to eliminate most variables. The auto trickler and digital scale I used are new to me. I purchased them from another member of CALGUNS. They are made by PACT.

http://pact.com/products/digital-precision-powder-scale-and-dispenser/


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I had a chance to try these ladder loads of 7.62x39 with CFE BLK powder. I have to say that I found a really good load for my gun (PSA AR-47 upper - 16" barrel). Very accurate, and drops the brass at your feet. I have seen this similar load from Reloader 7, but not near as accurate. I like when the brass falls at your feet. No need to chase it.

Cases eject at 3-4 o'clock and basically drop at your feet after hitting the brass deflector. Very minimal case damage from deflector. I will post a pic of how clean the case is and minimal brass damage.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/8b426edddb171d271d0cd69f7123f12f.jpg

Brass - PPU 7.62x39

Primer - CCI #34 (NATO Spec)

Powder - CFE BLK

Bullet - Hornady 123gr 7.62x39 FMJ (.310 dia)

OAL - 2.150"

***

Loaded 5 rounds at each powder charge. Loaded starting with the min. Bumped up the charge 0.2 grains every time.

***Most accurate load is 28.9 grains with a 123gr Honady bullet.***

There was also another accurate node at 29.1 grains and at 29.3 grains.

The 28.9 grain load should be a bowling pin hitter at 100 yards with iron sights. I had worked up a load of Reloader 7 for this, bit I like CFE BLK better. Cases look cleaner with the new powder to boot.


Here is a pic of a bowling pin at 100 yards with Reloader 7 powder. This bullet was a 150gr Speer Hot-Cor Soft Point. Blew up the bowling pin. Most often the bowling pins suck up bullets like sponges. This would definitely take a deer or maybe even an elk.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=106


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170226/ed03bfc1b28d5be2d3d22fee6b1c4c1f.jpg

Now that I have a good load for 123gr FMJ bullets, I will work up a load for the 150gr Speer Hot-Cor Soft Point with CFE BLK. This round is amazing. It is made for the 303 British rifle. Great hunting round.


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tonyjr
02-26-2017, 6:18 AM
Thanks -
the idiot I asked if they had any BLK powder said he never heard of it .
2 other places were out of stock .
So far I like all of the CFE powders - they burn cleaner and varget is a dirty powder .

webcruzzer
08-12-2017, 7:27 PM
I ran a subsonic test of CFE BLK on 220 gr. With 11grs I got 1075 fps with great accuracy. I think this powder is a keeper.

McGuiver
08-21-2017, 8:28 AM
I ran a subsonic test of CFE BLK on 220 gr. With 11grs I got 1075 fps with great accuracy. I think this powder is a keeper.



I love this new powder. Can't wait to try it in my bolt action.


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