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badicedog
10-28-2008, 11:04 PM
I ran across this a few minutes ago... let me know what you guys think.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/mili-s25.shtml

BP88
10-28-2008, 11:05 PM
Why do you find this cool? I think it's crap. The government is the reason behind a lot of civil unrest, and this is how they handle it?

You can't stand them so you drop them.

Bull****.

badicedog
10-28-2008, 11:08 PM
Why do you find this cool? I think it's crap. The government is the reason behind a lot of civil unrest, and this is how they handle it?

"You can't stand 'em so you drop 'em."

Bull****.

Who is saying its cool??? Im the opposite.

BP88
10-28-2008, 11:09 PM
Who is saying its cool??? Im the opposite.

Oh, you had the "Cool" smiley next to the title so I thought you were saying it was a good thing.

BlackReef
10-28-2008, 11:11 PM
wow - everything is falling into place nicely. Things are going to get very ugly here in the next couple years.

rayra
10-28-2008, 11:17 PM
hell I'm more interested in what the OP was doing cruising that communist website and bringing that trash here.

As to an active unit being designated, well I can see how we got there after years of the nanny-staters villifying the government with charges of inadequate post-disaster reponses.

But I'm unimpressed / unconcerned. Various military units / branches often get such training. The nation-building we've been engaged in for the last ~20yrs demands it. Concepts like the 'three block war' and MOUT call for everything from combined arms maneuver warfare all the way down to handing candy to kids and rebuilding town infrastructure.
That the FedGov now formalizes it in the face of the very real threats of major terrorist incidents is of no concern to me.
In fact they are more likely needed to respond to the chaos that anarcho-socialist scum that suckle on the marxist crapola at WSWS are always trying to foment.

rayra
10-28-2008, 11:19 PM
and wth is this doing in the riflemans forum? It belongs in politics / off-topic.

badicedog
10-28-2008, 11:21 PM
hell I'm more interested in what the OP was doing cruising that communist website and bringing that trash here.

As to an active unit being designated, well I can see how we got there after years of the nanny-staters villifying the government with charges of inadequate post-disaster reponses.

But I'm unimpressed / unconcerned. Various military units / branches often get such training. The nation-building we've been engaged in for the last ~20yrs demands it. Concepts like the 'three block war' and MOUT call for everything from combined arms maneuver warfare all the way down to handing candy to kids and rebuilding town infrastructure.
That the FedGov now formalizes it in the face of the very real threats of major terrorist incidents is of no concern to me.
In fact they are more likely needed to respond to the chaos that anarcho-socialist scum that suckle on the marxist crapola at WSWS are always trying to foment.

Hey buddy, Im no leftist... get that straight....

jjperl
10-28-2008, 11:23 PM
Dude, "The World Socialist Website"? That's kind of scary

badicedog
10-28-2008, 11:27 PM
Dude, "The World Socialist Website"? That's kind of scary

Like I said, I ran across it on google. Given the climate of things around here, it bothered me, so I posted it to get feedback. Im not a conspiracy theorist either.

badicedog
10-28-2008, 11:30 PM
please move to general discussions . thanks

Doheny
10-28-2008, 11:31 PM
Everybody calm down...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124452&highlight=civil+unrest


:dupe::dupe::dupe::dupe:

randy
10-28-2008, 11:56 PM
I found the article on the internet it must be true. How does anybody know if there is any truth to this article? Maybe it's just put out there to get everybody revved up.

badicedog
10-29-2008, 12:01 AM
I found the article on the internet it must be true. How does anybody know if there is any truth to this article? Maybe it's just put out there to get everybody revved up.

Please show me where I claim its true... There's always 3 sides to everything. The point of these forums are to share ideas, information and opinions...

chsk9
10-29-2008, 12:10 AM
world socialist website... errrr... go Obama?

bornproud
10-29-2008, 12:13 AM
You guys are harsh on badicedog, I find crap like this all the time. There is a saying "know your enemy" Also with saying that this shouldn't be under the riflemans forum.

But since its here I would like to say that this is probably whats going on. I feel something like this might be attended for a good purpose but will end up getting corrupt. We do have the National Guard which already can do stuff like this and that should be sufficiant. We don't need the active units for this.

BlackReef
10-29-2008, 12:19 AM
Here's the same story on CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/03/army.unit/index.html

JimmyD
10-29-2008, 12:22 AM
Singapore has a similar unit (their Gurkha contingent) that was designed as a non-racial unit made up of Nepalese recruits to respond to civil unrest especially in relation to race-related unrest. its like having a unit made up of non black-white-asian people that is responsible for securing LA during the riots.

sb_pete
10-29-2008, 12:54 AM
Wow, shocking. They neuter the Posse Comitatus act multiple times since the Patriot act and then after a few years they create a military unit designated to carry out operations against US citizens on US soil.

Man that is friggin' scary. I mean, Congress could always suspend Posse Comitatus and the National Guard units were the traditional resevoir of this kind of capacity within the US military (think Provincial Reconstruction Teams and the 19th and 20th Special Forces Groups)


Singapore has a similar unit (their Gurkha contingent) that was designed as a non-racial unit made up of Nepalese recruits to respond to civil unrest especially in relation to race-related unrest. its like having a unit made up of non black-white-asian people that is responsible for securing LA during the riots.

ummm, no. The Ghurka Contingent of the Singapore Police Force is a holdover from the British Empire. It replaced the Sikh Contingent in 1949. It's purpose is to that of outsider guardian of law and order whose primary motivator is honor instead of money or patriotism. Being Ghurkas, they are supposed to be above petty corruption and not have a stake in the political game. Thus they cannot be corrupted or used by political forces to foment rebellion or effectuate a coup. They are not supposed to be susceptible to political ideologues because they are outside of politics.

Moreover, they are a dedicated police force.

There are multiple reasons this is a really bad idea. The biggest one though is that it injects the military into civil disturbances. The military is supposed to exist outside of that fray. This is why the military is consistently the most highly respected political institution in this country. Bring it into domestic affairs and you open a whole friggin pandora's box of problems because the military now has to take sides in domestic disputes.

trinydex
10-29-2008, 1:28 AM
i wonder if that really works in practice.

JimmyD
10-29-2008, 1:41 AM
Singapore is not like the US. its a tin-foil hat wearer's nightmare come true :TFH:

you're right that the GC are a leftover from the British Empire but when Singapore gained independence, the GC was transferred to their control. Historically they have been used in racial disturbances usually when the government cannot trust the race of the normal police force. True they have no stake in the political game but they ARE loyal to the political leaders who tightly control their power. Why should a military unit comprised of non-citizens of a certain race that is loyal to a pseudo-democratic government police the people? :TFH:

There are a lot of things the Singapore government does that warrants wearing tin foil hats. However they do take good care of the sheep and are an excellent example of a nanny-state.

Like Rayra said, its just nanny-staters getting what they want. Maybe an active duty unit just happens to be the most practical or cost effective way to set it up.

cyphr02
10-29-2008, 8:35 AM
Here's the write up on the unit from the Army Times:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/


Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1
3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army
By Gina Cavallaro - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Sep 30, 2008 16:16:12 EDT

The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle rattle, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys.

Now they’re training for the same mission — with a twist — at home.

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas.

But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.

After 1st BCT finishes its dwell-time mission, expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one.

“Right now, the response force requirement will be an enduring mission. How the [Defense Department] chooses to source that and whether or not they continue to assign them to NorthCom, that could change in the future,” said Army Col. Louis Vogler, chief of NorthCom future operations. “Now, the plan is to assign a force every year.”

The command is at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colo., but the soldiers with 1st BCT, who returned in April after 15 months in Iraq, will operate out of their home post at Fort Stewart, Ga., where they’ll be able to go to school, spend time with their families and train for their new homeland mission as well as the counterinsurgency mission in the war zones.

Stop-loss will not be in effect, so soldiers will be able to leave the Army or move to new assignments during the mission, and the operational tempo will be variable.

Don’t look for any extra time off, though. The at-home mission does not take the place of scheduled combat-zone deployments and will take place during the so-called dwell time a unit gets to reset and regenerate after a deployment.

The 1st of the 3rd is still scheduled to deploy to either Iraq or Afghanistan in early 2010, which means the soldiers will have been home a minimum of 20 months by the time they ship out.

In the meantime, they’ll learn new skills, use some of the ones they acquired in the war zone and more than likely will not be shot at while doing any of it.

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.

Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area.

The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

The package is for use only in war-zone operations, not for any domestic purpose.

“It’s a new modular package of nonlethal capabilities that they’re fielding. They’ve been using pieces of it in Iraq, but this is the first time that these modules were consolidated and this package fielded, and because of this mission we’re undertaking we were the first to get it.”

The package includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets.

“I was the first guy in the brigade to get Tasered,” said Cloutier, describing the experience as “your worst muscle cramp ever — times 10 throughout your whole body.

“I’m not a small guy, I weigh 230 pounds ... it put me on my knees in seconds.”

The brigade will not change its name, but the force will be known for the next year as a CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force, or CCMRF (pronounced “sea-smurf”).

“I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Cloutier, who took command in July. “We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home ... and depending on where an event occurred, you’re going home to take care of your home town, your loved ones.”

While soldiers’ combat training is applicable, he said, some nuances don’t apply.

“If we go in, we’re going in to help American citizens on American soil, to save lives, provide critical life support, help clear debris, restore normalcy and support whatever local agencies need us to do, so it’s kind of a different role,” said Cloutier, who, as the division operations officer on the last rotation, learned of the homeland mission a few months ago while they were still in Iraq.

Some brigade elements will be on call around the clock, during which time they’ll do their regular marksmanship, gunnery and other deployment training. That’s because the unit will continue to train and reset for the next deployment, even as it serves in its CCMRF mission.

Should personnel be needed at an earthquake in California, for example, all or part of the brigade could be scrambled there, depending on the extent of the need and the specialties involved.
Other branches included

The active Army’s new dwell-time mission is part of a NorthCom and DOD response package.

Active-duty soldiers will be part of a force that includes elements from other military branches and dedicated National Guard Weapons of Mass Destruction-Civil Support Teams.

A final mission rehearsal exercise is scheduled for mid-September at Fort Stewart and will be run by Joint Task Force Civil Support, a unit based out of Fort Monroe, Va., that will coordinate and evaluate the interservice event.

In addition to 1st BCT, other Army units will take part in the two-week training exercise, including elements of the 1st Medical Brigade out of Fort Hood, Texas, and the 82nd Combat Aviation Brigade from Fort Bragg, N.C.

There also will be Air Force engineer and medical units, the Marine Corps Chemical, Biological Initial Reaction Force, a Navy weather team and members of the Defense Logistics Agency and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency.

One of the things Vogler said they’ll be looking at is communications capabilities between the services.

“It is a concern, and we’re trying to check that and one of the ways we do that is by having these sorts of exercises. Leading up to this, we are going to rehearse and set up some of the communications systems to make sure we have interoperability,” he said.

“I don’t know what America’s overall plan is — I just know that 24 hours a day, seven days a week, there are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines that are standing by to come and help if they’re called,” Cloutier said. “It makes me feel good as an American to know that my country has dedicated a force to come in and help the people at home.”

———
Correction:

A non-lethal crowd control package fielded to 1st Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division, described in the original version of this story, is intended for use on deployments to the war zone, not in the U.S., as previously stated.