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nmikmik
12-11-2016, 10:31 PM
I am not just new to reloading, I am very new.

Ordered my RCBS turret press, Lee Precision Pro Auto Disk powder measure, RCBS 3-DIE CARBIDE TAPER CRIMP SET, 9M, couple of shell holders and a tumbler for brass.
Reading the 49th edition of Lyman’s and in the very first few pages running across the following statement; “Never load cartridges from unknown source, i.e. cases picked up at the range or sold as once-fired brass”
Granted I also watched all bunch of youtube videos about reloading and saw how people are bragging that it costs them close to “nothing” to reload their ammunition by doing just that “picking up the range brass”
I realize that Lyman has to CYA and recommend reloading only your own brass as a known source, but it got me thinking that maybe my initial plans of reloading the “pickups” were possibly not a correct way of doing it, at least not as a beginner.
So let me outline what I am planning on doing and how and then hopefully someone with more experience can stop me/correct my plans so I have less chances of screwing it up :)


I am thinking of starting with 9mm luger. Will probably order 100-200 new brass or nickel plated cases from a reputable supplier. Order correct for my application per Lyman - bullets, primers and powder.
Install my press on the bench with the dies and the powder measure. I am still yet to order the Lyman Neck Expanding "M-Inchdie (380 Auto/38 Super Auto/9Mm Luger/9X23 )
Lee Precision EXP 9-mm Powder Through Die
Lee Precision Auto Disk Riser


I am not sure if I have the patience to pick a hundred primers with a primer feed tube that came with my RCBS but at this point I doubt I have a choice. May end up handpriming or using a ram priming.
When everything is delivered and installed I should be able to start with my first reload.
Since I will have new cases it should eliminate the need for a big part of reloading process of cleaning the cases and swaging the primer holes etc. not sure about lubricating the cases though because I bought carbide dies and the supposed big advantage of those is that you shouldn’t have to lubricate them. When I have my own recycled brass to reload I am planing on using walnut media with a bit of NuFinish wax/polish to clean them up and not lubricating them.
My plan is to go through the process of reloading at first in batch, just like one would on a single stage reloading press.
Am I on the right track or missing anything of importance?
Thank you in advance.

kcheung2
12-11-2016, 11:01 PM
I want to start off by saying that although you are new, at least you read the books & have legit specific questions. Most others are just "I'm new to reloading, how do I do it?" so you're further ahead than most.

New brass vs range pick up is a Coke-Pepsi type of debate & the answer for you can only come after you've reloaded for a while. A compromise for now would be to buy new commercial ammo, shoot that & collect the brass. That meets the competing demands of "free" range brass but you'll know the source of the brass. Avoid nickel cases. They can be reloaded but they're more brittle so shorter lifespan.

Cleaning cases isn't hard. Dump into tumber, have a long lunch, come back & they're clean. You don't need to swage primer pockets unless they are crimped, and most 9mm pockets aren't. For that matter you don't need to clean dirty primer pockets either, they don't affect function or accuracy.

Using carbide dies, the cases don't need lubrication but I do anyway because they squeak when being resized. Not a lot of lube, I'll resize a few dry cases, then a lubed case, then a few more dry cases. It's not hard to lube cases. I use the old school method of the RCBS lube pad & that lube goop in a tube.

Have you stocked up on powders & primers yet?

stilly
12-11-2016, 11:28 PM
I am not just new to reloading, I am very new.

Ordered my RCBS turret press, Lee Precision Pro Auto Disk powder measure, RCBS 3-DIE CARBIDE TAPER CRIMP SET, 9M, couple of shell holders and a tumbler for brass.
Reading the 49th edition of Lyman’s and in the very first few pages running across the following statement; “Never load cartridges from unknown source, i.e. cases picked up at the range or sold as once-fired brass”
Granted I also watched all bunch of youtube videos about reloading and saw how people are bragging that it costs them close to “nothing” to reload their ammunition by doing just that “picking up the range brass”
I realize that Lyman has to CYA and recommend reloading only your own brass as a known source, but it got me thinking that maybe my initial plans of reloading the “pickups” were possibly not a correct way of doing it, at least not as a beginner.
So let me outline what I am planning on doing and how and then hopefully someone with more experience can stop me/correct my plans so I have less chances of screwing it up :)


I am thinking of starting with 9mm luger. Will probably order 100-200 new brass or nickel plated cases from a reputable supplier. Order correct for my application per Lyman - bullets, primers and powder.
Install my press on the bench with the dies and the powder measure. I am still yet to order the Lyman Neck Expanding "M-Inchdie (380 Auto/38 Super Auto/9Mm Luger/9X23 )
Lee Precision EXP 9-mm Powder Through Die
Lee Precision Auto Disk Riser


I am not sure if I have the patience to pick a hundred primers with a primer feed tube that came with my RCBS but at this point I doubt I have a choice. May end up handpriming or using a ram priming.
When everything is delivered and installed I should be able to start with my first reload.
Since I will have new cases it should eliminate the need for a big part of reloading process of cleaning the cases and swaging the primer holes etc. not sure about lubricating the cases though because I bought carbide dies and the supposed big advantage of those is that you shouldn’t have to lubricate them. When I have my own recycled brass to reload I am planing on using walnut media with a bit of NuFinish wax/polish to clean them up and not lubricating them.
My plan is to go through the process of reloading at first in batch, just like one would on a single stage reloading press.
Am I on the right track or missing anything of importance?
Thank you in advance.

Well...

You paid a pretty penny for a turret that is slower than the faster one half the price... BUT it is RCBS so I am supposed to congratulate you for that I guess...

But then you went and pep-boyed it by getting a Lee powder dropper WHAT?
Okay, I will let that go, you might like it even though it does not fit with your dies.

I am only telling you all of this because as already noted, you have done MORE than the average individual that comes here looking to be spoonfed the answers...

SO, Typically, colors are not nice to be mixed with each other. You can make them play right, but SOME things are meant to work with their own. Example- You need the Lee dies to make the Pro Auto disk work like it was designed. SO, I recommend that you get Lee 9mm dies. (carbide 3 die set). OR at least go to titan reloading or FSreloading and buy the Lee PTX die for your 9mm IF YOU WANT IT TO WORK. Else you will have a powder dropper that has nothing to screw in to. Oh wait, do they make adapters for that yet? Ebay might have someone selling an adapter. Just get a Lee 9mm PTX die for $15 and be done with it...

You have many different choices that you can make now. If you want to prime by hand- good for you. Look for the RCBS universal hand primers. IF you want to spend a little more money, look for the APS universal hand primer + APS strip filler. OR just buy APS stripped primers (CCI only ones made).

You can also buy the Hornady and the Lee hand held primers. I have heard good things about most all of them and only little negative feedback about any of them.

I myself have and love the RCBS Universal APS hand primer because it does not need shell holders and I can prime 25 shells in about 17 seconds. No complaints here.

MrElectric03
12-12-2016, 4:53 AM
First rule...read a book. You are already ahead!

Be sure when you load a "batch", start with 5-10. Don't load all of your cases and find that they won't cycle. Many have been there and done that(myself included).

As for range brass, it's A-OK in my book. I inspect my cases often for splits and you want to be sure not to pick up steel or aluminum cased ammo and run them through your press. To be safe stick to brass. Doesn't take a lot of time to check the cases but start slow and you will get the hang of it. If it's been stepped on, has any burrs that could cause issues in your dies, or has any splits just toss them.

Oh and listen to Stilly about the lee powder dropper. He has a lot of experience with lee stuff. For god sake don't mention the D word or even the color blue around him.

nmikmik
12-12-2016, 5:55 AM
Thank you all!

A lot of valuable information as always, but again that's why people come here often.

I have S&B primers but they are for a rifle, so need to buy more. I also have bullets but they are .356 Berry's, so to be safe I am thinking of ordering .355 bullets and the powder that Lyman recommends for the 9mm.
I also really liked how the operation of the RCBS handprimer looks like on the youtube and prefer to start with that one.
I think I read somewhere that using walnut shell media with NuFinish pretty much eliminates that need for case lubing regardless of the type of dies you use because it leaves a small amount of dust on the casings. Would it make sense to give a 15 minute tumble to the new casings to help with that? I am just thinking that I'd probably need to tumble them anyway if I use the lube because otherwise the powder will not flow down the case throat correctly if it is contaminated with the lube, i did order the lube anyway just in case.

MrElectric03
12-12-2016, 7:11 AM
With carbide dies you won't need any lube. Rcbs hand prime is ok, I use a lee for rifle and works wel.

bazineta
12-12-2016, 7:50 AM
So far as cases from an unknown source, even when you have cases from a known source, you need to inspect them, as there's nothing magic about your own cases; they'll split and separate case heads just like any other.

Thus, rather than the typical advice, I tend to instead recommend inspection, practices that facilitate inspection, and acquiring tools to assist with inspection.

In terms of practices, clean your brass. 12 people will now jump in here and say how manly it is to not bother cleaning your brass, etc., but basically, you're going to keep your dies in great shape by cleaning your brass, and it is much easier to find splits and incipient head separation in clean brass, where you can see the defects. I wet tumble with stainless pins personally, but whatever works for you.

In terms of tools, while splits are easy to find, loose primer pockets and incipient case head separation aren't as easy.

It's annoying to find a loose primer pocket after you've seated the primer. These primer pocket gauges allow you a quick go/no go test. The 'go' is really nice when swaging out military crimps, and the 'no-go' lets you know that the pocket is too large and the brass should be tossed.

https://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket

Case head separation, if you've got clean brass, can often be spotted by examining the outside of the brass. If it's questionable, then dragging a bent paperclip inside the case can often reveal the separation as the paperclip edge snags on it. These techniques are both practically free.

If you want to go to the next level, an otoscope just rocks for this purpose; it's incredibly fast and easy to examine the inside of a rifle case by using one. Pick one up used, or get one of the cheap ones from Amazon. The 'Dr Mom LED PRO Otoscope' is what I use; ordered it from Amazon to see if it'd work, as I had an absolute ton of Lake City brass to go through, and wow, does it make it fast and easy.

Finally, at some point in the game you'll realize that you have more brass accumulated than it's possible to use. Knowing that that point is coming, don't be stingy about tossing stuff that's questionable; if in doubt, throw it out. There's always more brass.

dwalker
12-12-2016, 8:09 AM
Thank you all!

A lot of valuable information as always, but again that's why people come here often.

I have S&B primers but they are for a rifle, so need to buy more. I also have bullets but they are .356 Berry's, so to be safe I am thinking of ordering .355 bullets and the powder that Lyman recommends for the 9mm.
I also really liked how the operation of the RCBS handprimer looks like on the youtube and prefer to start with that one.
I think I read somewhere that using walnut shell media with NuFinish pretty much eliminates that need for case lubing regardless of the type of dies you use because it leaves a small amount of dust on the casings. Would it make sense to give a 15 minute tumble to the new casings to help with that? I am just thinking that I'd probably need to tumble them anyway if I use the lube because otherwise the powder will not flow down the case throat correctly if it is contaminated with the lube, i did order the lube anyway just in case.

No reason to buy new bullets, the .356 Berrys will be fine. Shoot them up and go buy more.

I like CFEPistol powder for 9mm, its very hard to doublecharge a case using it. Starting out I would avoid Titegroup and some others because the potential for a doublecharge is pretty high.

I never lube pistol cases. I do tumble them with a media additive and they feel a little slick, but other than that I dont do anything special.

I like the Lee handprimer, have had several and they just work without any issues for me. I dislike the APS strips because only CCI makes pre-loaded ones.

tonyjr
12-12-2016, 1:16 PM
To me you should hand prime and deprime .
I deprime , tumble , clean primer pocket and flash hole .
Then reprime .
I prime with a lee and deprime with frankford - I do use the Dillon
primer pocket and flash hole cleaner .
No one has said using latex gloves . They keep powder residue off your
hands [ I keep a towel in my lap .] They also catch on nicks and split
cases .
As for lubing - I dip cases in mica dust [ 45 ACP , 357 , 44 and 50 AE . ]
On smaller cases I use corn , on 38 or larger walnut .
You should put in a dryer sheet or 2 [ tear into 3 or 4 strips ] in your
medium .

hotrail
12-12-2016, 7:20 PM
I like CFEPistol powder for 9mm, its very hard to doublecharge a case using it. Starting out I would avoid Titegroup and some others because the potential for a doublecharge is pretty high.


Another newb (to reloading) here. Interested to understand this statement -- what makes it easier to doublecharge a case with one powder vs. another? Is it just that the Titegroup somehow packs down to a smaller volume, and the case does not appear full?

Revoman
12-12-2016, 7:32 PM
If you're going to buy cases, I would recommend buying brass only as nickel plated seems to become brittle sooner and at times the plating can flake off. It can lead to scratches in the rest of your cases from sticking in the sizing die. Brass won't do those things.
And yes, inspect.

Divernhunter
12-12-2016, 7:32 PM
Some powders are less bulky. Others you do not use as much. Those powders will often fit 2 full charges into the case. The results are not nice!
Other powders fill the case more with the suitable charges. If you try putting 2 charges into a case you end up with powder spilling over and making a mess. You will also realize you tried to double charge that piece of brass. Thus you go back and redo that case after cleaning up all the loose powder. Thus doing no damage to the firearm or yourself/bystanders

nmikmik
12-12-2016, 8:14 PM
To me you should hand prime and deprime .
I deprime , tumble , clean primer pocket and flash hole .
Then reprime .
I prime with a lee and deprime with frankford - I do use the Dillon
primer pocket and flash hole cleaner .
No one has said using latex gloves . They keep powder residue off your
hands [ I keep a towel in my lap .] They also catch on nicks and split
cases .
As for lubing - I dip cases in mica dust [ 45 ACP , 357 , 44 and 50 AE . ]
On smaller cases I use corn , on 38 or larger walnut .
You should put in a dryer sheet or 2 [ tear into 3 or 4 strips ] in your
medium .
Thank you for sharing!

Since I am not going to do thousands of rounds any time soon priming and depriming makes perfect sense. I also suspect I'd get a better feel of the effort that's required to prime the case using a hand primer. I was thinking about the gloves just this morning, other than protection from powder it should help with cast bullets i'd assume, not that I don't have my share of led in my body already but it all adds up.

nmikmik
12-12-2016, 9:40 PM
SO, Typically, colors are not nice to be mixed with each other. You can make them play right, but SOME things are meant to work with their own. Example- You need the Lee dies to make the Pro Auto disk work like it was designed. SO, I recommend that you get Lee 9mm dies. (carbide 3 die set). OR at least go to titan reloading or FSreloading and buy the Lee PTX die for your 9mm IF YOU WANT IT TO WORK. Else you will have a powder dropper that has nothing to screw in to. Oh wait, do they make adapters for that yet? Ebay might have someone selling an adapter. Just get a Lee 9mm PTX die for $15 and be done with it...

So Stilly,
would it be the right choice to get these four dies that include the PTX?
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lee-Deluxe-Carbide-Pistol-Four-Die-Set/731861.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3 D734095080%26CQ_search%3Dlee%2Bexpander%2Bdie%2B9m m%26CQ_st%3Db
As I understand even with these dies I'd still need to get the riser like this one http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lee-Auto-Disk-Riser/751814.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3 D734095080%26CQ_search%3Dlee%2Bprecision%2Bauto%2B disk%2Briser%26CQ_st%3Db
Thanks in advance!

dwalker
12-12-2016, 10:08 PM
Thank you for sharing!

Since I am not going to do thousands of rounds any time soon priming and depriming makes perfect sense. I also suspect I'd get a better feel of the effort that's required to prime the case using a hand primer. I was thinking about the gloves just this morning, other than protection from powder it should help with cast bullets i'd assume, not that I don't have my share of led in my body already but it all adds up.

I deprime/size on the press for rifle calibers and use the progressive for pistol calibers. Using a turret press the process I would recommend is:

Tumble until your OK with the cases
SORT- before you do anything with the cases sort them out and inspect them
Deprime/resize- make SURE your sizing die is adjusted properly
Prime- when I started many years ago I cleaned the flash holes on every case. I no longer do that. Just hand prime and make sure all your primers seat correctly
Charge- I hand charge using the Lee perfect Powder Measure on the single stage and use a Lee Auto Drum on the turret and progressive
Seat bullet
crimp- I only crimp pistol rounds and I have gone to a light crimp using the plated bullets
case gauge
Tumble again
box up

Top Cat
12-12-2016, 10:23 PM
Wearing gloves is a good idea but keep in mind that lead contamination comes from ingesting it somehow, like breathing dust in the air as in indoor ranges, or when casting indoors, or if there is lead on your fingers that gets transferred to your food or if you touch your eyes, etc.

stilly
12-13-2016, 12:29 AM
So Stilly,
would it be the right choice to get these four dies that include the PTX?
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lee-Deluxe-Carbide-Pistol-Four-Die-Set/731861.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3 D734095080%26CQ_search%3Dlee%2Bexpander%2Bdie%2B9m m%26CQ_st%3Db
As I understand even with these dies I'd still need to get the riser like this one http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lee-Auto-Disk-Riser/751814.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3 D734095080%26CQ_search%3Dlee%2Bprecision%2Bauto%2B disk%2Briser%26CQ_st%3Db
Thanks in advance!

Oh boy.

You are starting a ford/chevy debate now with the 4 die v. 3 die set. That 4th die is a Factory Crimp Die and not necessarily needed (you can buy it for $16). I think 9 out of 11 people will tell you that that 4th die is NOT needed. You certainly do NOT want it if you are loading lead or maybe even plated or PC pills. SO if you already have a set of RCBS dies enroute, I suggest just buying a Lee PTX die. I have never bought 4 die sets. As much as I love lee and their thriftyness, I only own ONE FCD and that is a 40 cal FCD that I use as a push through resizer. Look at just about everyone else, There has to be a reason why most all other die makers have only 3 dies in their sets. That 4th die is a crutch, once you make decent ammo and have your dies setup, it is not needed...

Now for the riser. Maybe, but I would point to it here: http://www.titanreloading.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=lee%20riser Because when it comes to buying ANYTHING Lee, TITAN or FSR are the BEST places to get it. PERIOD. Maybe if you have a black friday sale with a veteran's discount and a black panther discount PLUS they let you use the HArbor freight 44% off coupon on your order, MAYBE then you should buy from a different place, but Titan and FSR are what I suggest.

Do you need that riser? That riser is meant for the LEE Classic and precision turrets. Since you did not buy one of those turrets (the fastest ones you can buy before going to a progressive) you most likely do NOT have the same setup/navigation on your press and therefore you probably do NOT need it. There is also a swivel http://www.titanreloading.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=lee%20swivel that might be good and you are supposed to use that swivel in conjunction with that riser. That riser AGAIN, is made for the Lee Turrets and the Lee Turrets have a most EXCELLENT way of priming, called the Lee safety prime or something, and if you do NOT have the riser, the powder dropper might hit and scrape your primer holder. The riser allows it to rise and clear that primer container with no issues.
But since you can not put a Lee safety primer or auto prime onto the RCBS turret, then it is not needed.

Another thing nobody has caught on to yet is that Lee tells folks that they designed their powder dropper to work with the 4 and 3 hole turret and the rotational action plus the bumping of the PTX makes the powder settle better for a more consistent charge. Well, on the RCBS turret you will have none of that most likely. You MIGHT have some, but not like they intended, so your powder might drop in variations. No big deal really until it becomes a tiresome and bigger deal. But hey, give it a try, even Dodge Rams are sold with 4 bangers in them...

In all honesty though, that lee powder dropper was designed to work with the Lee 3 hole precision and 4 hole classic turrets as well as the pro-1000 and the Loadmasters. (which contradicts what Lee tells people about the powder needing to be rotated and bumped for consistent action).

Get it, put it on and let's find out. And remember, I am just some guy on the internet.

By the way, I heard the company Dillon died the other day... Now all those guys with the blue presses are out of luck when they break after about 80k rounds... :stuart:

kcheung2
12-13-2016, 9:11 AM
Another newb (to reloading) here. Interested to understand this statement -- what makes it easier to doublecharge a case with one powder vs. another? Is it just that the Titegroup somehow packs down to a smaller volume, and the case does not appear full?

You know how the firearms safety rules are really just a series of redundancies? Same with this. If you are always meticulous & never distracted then a double charge will never happen. However real life isn't like that. A typical situation is a reloader fills up a case, then gets distracted by a screaming kid or a knock on the door or whatever & loses his place. He comes back 30 minutes or 2 weeks later then fills up the case again, thinking it's empty. Double charge.

The less-dense powders fill up the case such that if a 2nd charge were loaded it would overflow. Don't curse the ensuing mess, rather be thankful that a safety redundancy saved you from your initial error.

But they're not all bad, denser powders are more economical because more rounds can be loaded per pound.

nmikmik
12-13-2016, 10:51 AM
Thank you all again!

So Lee PTX die it is, i hate wasting money unnecessary, you may disagree because I bought an "expensive" press, but it's all relative, I paid $219 for it and should be getting $75 back from RCBS. I thought that PTX was the one that was extra in that set, tells you how much I know :rolleyes:
I will order a separate Lee PTX,
http://www.titanreloading.com/special-order-lee-powder-through-expanding-die?search=powder%20through
swage gauge, https://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket
a trimming set if need it, I did not see anyone mention it, assuming because it's mostly for the rifle cartridges trimming, that I am planing on reloading eventually as well.
http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-case-trimmer-cutter-lock-stud?search=Case%20Trimmer%20Cutter
or one of the Lee Quick Trim case trimmers
For now, will I need anything other tools or equipment to start reloading my 9mm? Just trying to avoid unnecessary delivery charges.
I am also still a little confused with powder choices. I see the aforementioned CFE Pistol Powder in the Lyman's manual but I don't see my Berry's bullets i.e. .356, 124gr target hp. So how do I choose correct powder charge if I do end up with the CFE and use my bullets? What about adjusting the OAL if I use the same bullets and my (not ordered yet) new brass cases?

Thanks,

wbunning
12-13-2016, 10:59 AM
With carbide dies you won't need any lube. Rcbs hand prime is ok, I use a lee for rifle and works wel.

You might need to lube the inside of the necks with mica or a spray case lubes (of the type that doesn't contaminate powder or primers) if you use the Lee ptx dies. I use a lee powder measure and it actually works better and more reliably than my Hornady on the progressive press. The Lee PTX dies can be sticky. The expander plugs on the dies I have are tight fitting and a bit rough. I ended up taking them apart and polishing the plugs, which helped a lot.

dwalker
12-13-2016, 12:18 PM
Thank you all again!

So Lee PTX die it is, i hate wasting money unnecessary, you may disagree because I bought an "expensive" press, but it's all relative, I paid $219 for it and should be getting $75 back from RCBS. I thought that PTX was the one that was extra in that set, tells you how much I know :rolleyes:
I will order a separate Lee PTX,
http://www.titanreloading.com/special-order-lee-powder-through-expanding-die?search=powder%20through
swage gauge, https://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket

I only care about rifle primer pockets and do not really ever bother to decrimp 9mm primer pockets. I use the RCBS on-press swager to swage primer pockets for 223 and I have one of the RCBS crimp cutters that goes in a cordless drill that I use for the odd 9mm crimped case or if I only need to decrimp a couple rifle cases.

a trimming set if need it, I did not see anyone mention it, assuming because it's mostly for the rifle cartridges trimming, that I am planing on reloading eventually as well.
http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-case-trimmer-cutter-lock-stud?search=Case%20Trimmer%20Cutter
or one of the Lee Quick Trim case trimmers

I use the RCBS trim-pro or whatever they call it with the three way cutter head for rifle cases only. I never trim pistol cases.

For now, will I need anything other tools or equipment to start reloading my 9mm? Just trying to avoid unnecessary delivery charges.

You need a case gauge, I use a "hundo" gauge and I have a Dillon case gauge around here somewhere. You need an impact bullet puller because mistakes happen. I would swap out the Auto disk for an Auto Drum powder measure and a set of extra drum set. If RCBS offers an on-press primer setup for the turret press get that, its a nice thing to have. Add a set of good calipers, a good powder scale, a few plastic trays for cases, and a bin or two for bullets and brass and you have a decent starter kit.
I am also still a little confused with powder choices. I see the aforementioned CFE Pistol Powder in the Lyman's manual but I don't see my Berry's bullets i.e. .356, 124gr target hp. So how do I choose correct powder charge if I do end up with the CFE and use my bullets? What about adjusting the OAL if I use the same bullets and my (not ordered yet) new brass cases?

Thanks,

My medium load for the 124gr Berrys over CFE is 4.8gr at 1.15. IIWY I would start around 4.6 and work up to see what your gun likes.

tonyjr
12-13-2016, 3:34 PM
I would look at the lee hand loader loader . You can adjust it to check OAL . Primer seating .
Like suggest - a bullet puller
A few plastic bullet / cartridge holders [ different colors - loaded , primed , need depriming - etc ]
Calipers - I would get Digital one - easier to read .
At least one other reloading manual , index tabs to mark what is important to you [ hi lite ]
A couple of lights . I use 2 lamps plus an overhead 4 foot flore.
A kitchen timer - set it for 15 , 20 - whatever minutes and get up and move if only to pee . Seating for a while and your legs can go to sleep .
I keep a towel on my shoulder - unless you know when you are going to sneeze or scratch yourself .
Has anyone mentioned goggles yet ?

stilly
12-14-2016, 10:50 AM
Thank you all again!

So Lee PTX die it is, i hate wasting money unnecessary, you may disagree because I bought an "expensive" press, but it's all relative, I paid $219 for it and should be getting $75 back from RCBS. I thought that PTX was the one that was extra in that set, tells you how much I know :rolleyes:
I will order a separate Lee PTX,
http://www.titanreloading.com/special-order-lee-powder-through-expanding-die?search=powder%20through
swage gauge, https://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket
a trimming set if need it, I did not see anyone mention it, assuming because it's mostly for the rifle cartridges trimming, that I am planing on reloading eventually as well.
http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-case-trimmer-cutter-lock-stud?search=Case%20Trimmer%20Cutter
or one of the Lee Quick Trim case trimmers
For now, will I need anything other tools or equipment to start reloading my 9mm? Just trying to avoid unnecessary delivery charges.
I am also still a little confused with powder choices. I see the aforementioned CFE Pistol Powder in the Lyman's manual but I don't see my Berry's bullets i.e. .356, 124gr target hp. So how do I choose correct powder charge if I do end up with the CFE and use my bullets? What about adjusting the OAL if I use the same bullets and my (not ordered yet) new brass cases?

Thanks,

You might try:
https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-powder-through-expanding-die-9mm-luger-90580.html

As for go/no go, bah. If you got military brass that is one thing, but even then- bah. I would just use a primer pocket swager.

Bullets are bullets. You are only looking at it from one angle. Another angle that you might look at it is a Plated 9mm 124gr, OR better yet, a LEAD 9mm 124gr Lyman has images in their book, match them up, OR just go by other weights.

If I wanted a starting charge for a ladder I would end up selecting 125gr LEAD in the new BoLee and that would give me a 4.4gr to start with and a 1.125 MIN OAL. In all honesty I would make about 5 at 4.5, 5 at 4.6 and 5 at 4.7.

Typically, plated = lead, so plated bullets = lead bullets.

At one point I never really cared all that much so for me plated=lead=j-word. That worked out well, but When possible I do try to be a bit more careful.

Worst case scenario, look for a powder that is more widely used/tested and buy another powder.

CFE pistol is good stuff, but so is 700-X, WSF, WST, Power Pistol, HS-6, BE, AA#5,7,9, PB, ZIP, and more...

Please do not buy a 9mm brass trimmer though... Trimming (common caliber straight-walled) pistol brass is like mowing astroturf...

Die setups- Most all of Lee come with 1 resizer/decapper, 1 ptx/charging, 1 seater/crimper the 4 die sets include a FCD or Factory Crimp Die (carbide in the carbide sets usually IIRC)

Other companies seem to include the following dies: 1 resizer/decapper, 1 expander, 1 seater/crimper, I have also seen I think a seater and a crimper seperately in a Dillon set with no expander, but I would have to doublecheck.

To have an even better setup though, you could have gone with a RCBS QC powder dropper + case activated linkage + powder funnel ptx bushing for about $200 or less prolly. But that would be a far superior dropper, with a baffle, and a HUGE adjustable charge weight range. AND no PTX die needed since it would be in the bushing that sits in the dropper AND the ptx takes care of .25-.50 caliber. (not .22 like I had through of before). But this is also for a more advanced reloader that is looking to make improvements.

nmikmik
12-15-2016, 7:27 PM
Thank you again!

I ordered the Lee PTX and did no go for the trimmer, although I suspect I will need it later for the rifle calibers.
For now I will be happy to be able to reload the 9mm. Still holding off for the primers and powder because of the hazmat fee and pretty much a need to buy more.

philc
12-15-2016, 9:01 PM
Throw you a bone so you can get some practice in. For $6.80 i'll fill up a small flat rate box with (mostly) once fired 9mm brass. Probably be around 400 pieces. All range pickups. I have more than i need. PM me if you need that kind of help.

stilly
12-15-2016, 10:20 PM
Thank you again!

I ordered the Lee PTX and did no go for the trimmer, although I suspect I will need it later for the rifle calibers.
For now I will be happy to be able to reload the 9mm. Still holding off for the primers and powder because of the hazmat fee and pretty much a need to buy more.

Philc has a nice option for you if you need brass...

Seems like things might be coming along for you.

I do not know how large your bankroll is but my suggestion is that you get a Cabelas's Club Visa with a 900+ limit on it and when they have their primers go on sale, buy about 30k of LP/SP/SR/LR and you will be in REAL good shape if the average is around $24 or less per 1k.

Forget buying powder from them. Stick with other places, but really, powder is easy to offset shipping/hazmat, just buy a few 8lb bottles and you are good.

Look for WSF/HS6/Win231/HP38/Autocomp/ZIP/CLAYS/PB or CFE pistol. I tell you though, CFE pistol impressed me. That is some seriously good stuff. Meters nice and really has a bit more pop in your loads.

If I had to only pick one of those, I would pick CFE Pistol, If I had to get two, I would get CFEP and HP-38/Win231 but they are all pretty good. I think we use a 5.0-5.2gr charge of WSF (Winchester Super Field) in the 9mm for practice on a 115gr plated pill. Good stuff no complaints. It works well in the glock, rami, sig and khar.

Just look for someone who is selling powder by the 8lb jug at Wideners, Powdervalleyinc or 3rdgeneration, or even midsouth shooter, if they let you buy multiple 8lb jugs, GO FOR IT. All you need to buy is about 2-4 8LB jugs and your hazmat/shipping is pretty much offset. If you can also add primers into that order for around $25-27 per 1k then you are still doing good. Then when Cabelas has them on sale for 19.99/1k or 16.99/1k buy another 30k+ primers... It is all good. That will keep you shooting for a few years and allow you to rollover to other calibers. ;)

Doing the math, at $160/8lb bottle (that is HIGH) and $33/1k Primers, that means that if you bought 1 8lb bottle, that would give you the following:
$160/8lb= $20/1lb & 1lb = 7000gr =1400 shots @5.0gr SO in an 8lb bottle you will have about 11200 shots of 9mm

Make life easy and round off 11k shots per 8lb bottle. = $160 for 11k shots = .0145 each

11k primers =33 x 11 = $333 for 11k shots = .0302 each

BRass CAN be free, but expect to pay .01-.04 each or go find range pickups or hell, go to gunbroker.com and buy once fired brass if you want to jumpstart. Hell, even I or others could assist you in that. LET'S supposed you buy 9mm at .03 each (expensive, cause that is the price of .40) that means if you bought 11k brass you would pay $330, but why? You can prolly get 500-1000 yup- for around $30 (http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=9mm+once+fired)

So just reload them after they are fired... Maybe get 2500 or 5k pieces if you really want to. But supposed you bought brass @ $30/1000 that means your shells cost .03 each.

Then you got bullets. Cast your own? Maybe. Or buy plated to start out. Buy plated at 124gr or 115gr = Xtreme is around $40/500 so $80/1000 or .08 each

Add it all up
.0145 + .0302 + .03 + .08 = $.1547 per shot ($7.73/box of 50) for your FIRST loadings. Then you pick up your brass and reuse it and your NEXT reloadings are $.1247 each ($6.24 per box of 50).

So it will cost you just a hair over $1371 for 11k 9mm rounds that you can shoot.

AND I was talking about EXPENSIVE components. Powder will most likely be about $20 less per 8lb bottle and primers will be around $25 or less per 1k hopefully... Federal primers are posted in another link costing $28.xx/1k which would drop the above numbers down by about a cent a shot. It is all about buying in bulk to really save money reloading.

Go buy lead and learn to cast and PC and you can make some super slick pills that cost about .04 each instead of the .08 that plated cost, AND you can shoot them faster too.

Yawn...

/thread.

Mot Mi
12-16-2016, 10:34 AM
Are you ever at the range and you see those other shooters next to you with brand new ammo. Well, once those cases come out of the guns they now become once fired.

Now, if you aren't sure whether they could be reloads ask them. I've picked up thousands of brass on the ground even ones that have been left there to look like crap and reloaded them. I am not telling you to go against what the manual tells you because it's a precaution to better know the brass but once youvery become skilled at the inspection process you can start picking up brass thus reloading them.

philc
12-16-2016, 10:51 AM
Are you ever at the range and you see those other shooters next to you with brand new ammo. Well, once those cases come out of the guns they now become once fired.

Be sure to ask the shooter if it is ok to pick up their brass. Some people are sensitive about it.

Desertdoc
12-16-2016, 11:00 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=108907

tonyjr
12-16-2016, 4:18 PM
I / we shoot mainly at an indoor range - cement floor .
Mainly the 50 AE and 44 mag- I have to watch - when they hit floor , the base can get bent . I pick them up anyway . I have found from the 25 ACP to the 40 with bent bases .
Another thing to look for is dented cases . Dented cases are a good reason to get a Lee hand loader or if you have a spare die in that caliber - do the drop in test . If it drops in - not bent to bad and you can reload .
If it kind of sticks - not worth my time . [ while brass will not scratch you steel dye - it can scratch bluing in die - or get stuck . ]

dwalker
12-16-2016, 5:26 PM
I / we shoot mainly at an indoor range - cement floor .
Mainly the 50 AE and 44 mag- I have to watch - when they hit floor , the base can get bent . I pick them up anyway . I have found from the 25 ACP to the 40 with bent bases .
Another thing to look for is dented cases . Dented cases are a good reason to get a Lee hand loader or if you have a spare die in that caliber - do the drop in test . If it drops in - not bent to bad and you can reload .
If it kind of sticks - not worth my time . [ while brass will not scratch you steel dye - it can scratch bluing in die - or get stuck . ]

No, thats not how it works.

Dented cases are not an issue unless they are creased. I have brass that has been stepped on, slammed against walls and obstacles, thrown in the gravel, case mouth out of round, lip a little bent, and it forms right back, dents or no dents. Just clean, load, and go.
There is no good reason to use a hand loader if you have another press, and certainly not a good reason to use one as a case gauge. I have a hand loader, and the only thing it is good for is to keep around in case I go on a long road trip and might have to load a few on the fly in a hotel room.

OP buy a case gauge, you use it after you load. It is less important if you are loading on a single stage and are batch processing. On a progressive where you are going fast a case gauge prevents a round from not getting resized quite right and causing an issue.

wbunning
12-16-2016, 5:48 PM
brass will not scratch you steel dye - it can scratch bluing in die - or get stuck . ]

You have blued dies?

Malthusian
12-16-2016, 6:09 PM
Wearing gloves is a good idea but keep in mind that lead contamination comes from ingesting it somehow, like breathing dust in the air as in indoor ranges, or when casting indoors, or if there is lead on your fingers that gets transferred to your food or if you touch your eyes, etc.

I wear a dust mask when depriming and wash my hands often

I have a Cat, so I am extra careful to keep all surfaces clean

I only wear latex gloves for lubing brass, I tried the latex gloves for awhile, reading this I think I may go back

Also as a sidelight, I wash my hands and face whenever I shoot

I have been tested for lead levels and they are elevated

YMMV

wbunning
12-16-2016, 6:29 PM
Also as a sidelight, I wash my hands and face whenever I shoot

I use this stuff when I finish shooting at the range, and after reloading. It comes in smaller containers and single-use wipes:

https://www.amazon.com/Hygenall-LeadOff-Foaming-Soap-gallon/dp/B00I80F3KG

dwalker
12-16-2016, 6:40 PM
I used to do a bunch of stuff like wearing masks and stuff, but now I just make sure I'm in a will ventilated area and wash my hands after handling lead stuff. I keep a container of these wet torsos nap type things called grime boss handy to clean my hags without having to run to the sink every few minutes.
I also switched to unique case lube which is non toxic

Top Cat
12-16-2016, 6:46 PM
Minimizing lead contamination is one of the benefits of shooting coated lead bullets. After shooting for many years I like to keep everything as clean as possible.

tonyjr
12-17-2016, 6:40 AM
I don't know what the treatment is for dies [ bluing - anidizing - what ever .
Case gauges are O K - if you can find them .
I use all 5 die holes on the lee master - so I do have spare dies for checking .
It is just easier for me to check with a hand loader [ bent base , high primer , dented , creased case ]

nmikmik
01-07-2017, 3:34 PM
Don't know if I should have opened a new thread or having the history is beneficial.
Admin, please feel free to separate please.

So now I want to make a couple of dummies before I start playing with primers and powder, but;
I am not sure if I am setting up my dies in correct order.
The way I have it on my press in a clockwise direction:
RCBS resizing/decaping die
RCBS expanding die
Lee powder through expanding die
RCBS seating die

The logic under using RCBS expanding die being first in sequence is to avoid expanding with non-carbide Lee die and possibly having to deal with stuck cases. How should I make sure that my PTX die does just that, powder without expanding? When I raise the empty sized case into the die, after adjusting the die towards the case, I see that it pushes the powder measures actuator, just don't know if it's enough to fill the case with powder.
Thank you,

llazyjs
01-08-2017, 5:01 AM
Thank you all!

A lot of valuable information as always, but again that's why people come here often.

I have S&B primers but they are for a rifle, so need to buy more. I also have bullets but they are .356 Berry's, so to be safe I am thinking of ordering .355 bullets and the powder that Lyman recommends for the 9mm.
I also really liked how the operation of the RCBS handprimer looks like on the youtube and prefer to start with that one.
I think I read somewhere that using walnut shell media with NuFinish pretty much eliminates that need for case lubing regardless of the type of dies you use because it leaves a small amount of dust on the casings. Would it make sense to give a 15 minute tumble to the new casings to help with that? I am just thinking that I'd probably need to tumble them anyway if I use the lube because otherwise the powder will not flow down the case throat correctly if it is contaminated with the lube, i did order the lube anyway just in case.

I tumble new brass in corn cob with NuFinish for the slick dusty finish. A couple of years ago I loaded up 1200 rounds of .44 Special using my own used prepped brass then loaded 400 new cases I had bought and I could immediately feel the increased resistance with the new cases so I started tumbling new brass and it's worked well for me. I use Lee carbide dies.

nmikmik
01-08-2017, 5:32 AM
I tumble new brass in corn cob with NuFinish for the slick dusty finish. A couple of years ago I loaded up 1200 rounds of .44 Special using my own used prepped brass then loaded 400 new cases I had bought and I could immediately feel the increased resistance with the new cases so I started tumbling new brass and it's worked well for me. I use Lee carbide dies.
Are you using the dryer sheets in the tumbler? I noticed they take out a lot of fine dust, but if it's actually a benefit, I'll use less of it. I wish I'd have bought my Lee PTX in carbide as well if available, would be less headache I assume, but what do I know, literally :rolleyes: