Visiting family in the military..

[leitung]

Here is a situation for you to evaluate for me..
My cousin is in the Navy, he is stationed at the Portsmouth, NH Naval Shipyard. I believe he will be living on base housing (although thats not for certain yet) I have a non-resident CCW from the State of Maine, I want to go visit them, and stay at their house (on base housing) and bring my gun. As I understand it.. it is illegal period for a civilian to bring a handgun onto base housing? Or is there a legal way of being allowed to bring it on? I don't wan't to carry it on base housing, just keep it in a locked container while at their house.
Just wanted to get the facts straight... If not I may stay at a hotel in Maine and just leave the gun locked in the safe while on base housing visiting.

[smokingloon]

Call PMO and ask

[CavTrooper]

Generally, you would have your firearm unloaded and locked up, may have to register it with the PMO. Shouldnt be a big issue, just have your Military family member transport it on to post for you.

[kermit315]

Definately dont carry on base. Unloaded, locked in a case, and if your family member calls security, you **should** be able to keep it at the house till you leave. Whidbey Island was like that. Mugu is more strict, and I have a hard time with my stuff, and I am in the military and live here.

USNCHIEF would probably have a better answer for you, but definately call ahead and ask.

[Nodda Duma]

Definately dont carry on base. Unloaded, locked in a case, and if your family member calls security, you **should** be able to keep it at the house till you leave. Whidbey Island was like that. Mugu is more strict, and I have a hard time with my stuff, and I am in the military and live here.

USNCHIEF would probably have a better answer for you, but definately call ahead and ask.

That sounds about right..China Lake is similar to Mugu in that regard...although is Mugu's firing range still cleared for civilian employee use? We used to have a firing range up here on base, but they closed it down several years ago..in response to 9/11 or what I don't know.

+1 on calling ahead. I don't think they really mind as long as you follow the rules and you're cleared ahead of time. Military's good like that.

-Jason

[Liberty1]

If no state law is broken what is the federal charge for possession on base? I only know of the "federal building" law. I understand that base commanders ability to have persons removed for various reasons but I'm curious as to what if anything a fed. prosecutor could charge for mere possession.

[kermit315]

Dont remember, but at the gate here on Mugu, they cite a a federal statute on the sign. If I remember, I will look it up and post it here.

Also, the range is still here, but they only let people shoot trap out there. The pistol range is only for security to qualify on. Truthfully, I would like to be able to go over to the SeaBee range down the road about a mile and do pistol/rifle, but I dont even know who to begin to talk to about that.

[NiteQwill]

If no state law is broken what is the federal charge for possession on base? I only know of the "federal building" law. I understand that base commanders ability to have persons removed for various reasons but I'm curious as to what if anything a fed. prosecutor could charge for mere possession.

US Code Title 18,930 I believe
More specifically: title 18, part I, ch. 44, § 930

1 year in prison

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Decoligny]

US Code Title 18,930 I believe
More specifically: title 18, part I, ch. 44, § 930

1 year in prison

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Consider yourself corrected. There may be another code that applies but not 930.

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties. (2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

So unless the Military have people who normally work inside the family housing unit where his relative will be residing, then this code doesn't apply. This code is specifically dealing with "Buildings where Federal Employees work".
And unless they can prove you have received notice, or they have notice posted on the entrance of the building, then you can't be prosecuted.

[kermit315]

"part thereof" may very well include the whole base, as it is a secure military installation.

Also, the base commander, region commander (Probably Commander, Navy Region Northeast) and Fleet Commander can impose more restrictions than any federal code that they want, so it also depends on the instructions they are being governed under.

[hitman13]

A LOT OF NAVY HOUSING IN THE AREA IS TECHNICALLY ON NO BASE.

[Decoligny]

"part thereof" may very well include the whole base, as it is a secure military installation.

It says "a building or part thereof". Show me any base that is "a part of a building". Can't do it.

Also, the base commander, region commander (Probably Commander, Navy Region Northeast) and Fleet Commander can impose more restrictions than any federal code that they want, so it also depends on the instructions they are being governed under.

Since my response only dealt with USC 19, 44, 930 and not the entire authority of commanders, this is a moot point. I was just saying that USC 19, 44 930 is not the code that gives the authority. There very well maybe be other parts of the US Code that do apply, just not this one.

[kermit315]

I understand that base commanders ability to have persons removed for various reasons but I'm curious as to what if anything a fed. prosecutor could charge for mere possession.

as far as I know, when you enter a Military Base, you are automatically consenting to abide by all instructions, laws and directives in place. If they say no weapons, and find you carrying, I think you could be charged, but I dont know what it would be. Nobody on base is allowed to keep weapons (This only applies to Mugu, and possibly Whidbey Island if they havent changed anything) except if you live in base housing, which even then, you have to check it into the armory so they know what you have and agree to keep it under lock and key. If somebody visits me on base here and hasnt called ahead to security, they pretty much have to park their car outside the blue line and leave the gun there (local instruction). I know that I would be subject to UCMJ since I am responsible for my guests while they are here ( if they do something, I might as well have done it). However, if a Fed Prosecutor decided to pursue a weapon in unauthorized area charge, I could see it happening. Since the entered, they agreed, etc...

I figured Federal buildings include the land they sit on, and since the whole base is an enclosed area of Federal buildings, they might be able to apply that logic to that statute.

Since my response only dealt with USC 19, 44, 930 and not the entire authority of commanders, this is a moot point. I was just saying that USC 19, 44 930 is not the code that gives the authority. There very well maybe be other parts of the US Code that do apply, just not this one.

The part about NRNE, Fleet CINC's and etc was directed at the OP, so not sure why you brought it up....it is indeed not moot and directly relates to his question, which we are getting too wrapped around the axles about and need to get back to.

[NiteQwill]

Consider yourself corrected. There may be another code that applies but not 930.

Did a little more searching and other forums indeed state 930 covers weapons on military installations. Also, as stated, commanders of bases are at the supreme discretion of such acts (such as ranges available for civilian use: Title 10, Subtitle B, Part III, Ch 401 § 4309) Some bases are obviously more strict than others, like bases that house nuclear powered subs or munitions.

Here is an example: http://www.bragg.army.mil/ProvostMarshal/ProvostMarshalDocs/FB%20Reg%20190-12.pdf

Even more info is USC Title 32: National Defense, Code of Federal Regulations, Subpart G, I, etc.

There's a whole bunch of info above.

[Decoligny]

Did a little more searching and other forums indeed state 930 covers weapons on military installations. Also, as stated, commanders of bases are at the supreme discretion of such acts (such as ranges available for civilian use: Title 10, Subtitle B, Part III, Ch 401 § 4309) Some bases are obviously more strict than others, like bases that house nuclear powered subs or munitions.

Here is an example: http://www.bragg.army.mil/ProvostMarshal/ProvostMarshalDocs/FB%20Reg%20190-12.pdf

Even more info is USC Title 32: National Defense, Code of Federal Regulations, Subpart G, I, etc.

There's a whole bunch of info above.

While 930 is applicable on military installations, it is only applicable in the buildings where Federal Employees/Military work. The areas outside of those buildings are covered by other portions of USC.