Dedicated 22 rimfire Build Question

[dvader]

If I were to build a dedicated 22 rimfire AR using a Spikes Tactical lower marked "22LR", and a Spikes Tactical dedicated 22LR upper, would it be legal to have a pistol grip, folding stock and flashider on it?

[SigShooter]

Absolutely. Rimfire rifles are exempt from AW laws.

In fact you could make it with whatever lower you wanted, as long as the upper is rimfire you are good to go.

[Bill_in_SD]

Is it time for a larger caliber rimfire round?????

Or is it not practical / feasible.....

[DedEye]

Is it time for a larger caliber rimfire round?????

Or is it not practical / feasible.....

It has been discussed quite a bit before a search should turn up lots of information.

as others said, any lower with any caliber markings is legal for use with a dedicated .22 upper.

[eltee]

So, a Spike's lower (marked .22LR) and a .22 upper and anything goes except for 10+ round mags? It gets more tempting every day, esp. since that Walther barrel is available on the Spike's upper.

[AngelDecoys]

In fact you could make it with whatever lower you wanted, .....

...... any lower with any caliber markings is legal for use with a dedicated .22 upper.

Just for clarity sake. I'm sure the above users meant to also include that the lower can not be a lower listed by name (such as bushmaster).

[Bill_in_SD]

It has been discussed quite a bit before a search should turn up lots of information.

as others said, any lower with any caliber markings is legal for use with a dedicated .22 upper.

Sorry, I was 'shooting from the hip'..... :)

I will search...... and learn..... God bless Calguns!

[ohsmily]

So, a Spike's lower (marked .22LR) and a .22 upper and anything goes except for 10+ round mags? It gets more tempting every day, esp. since that Walther barrel is available on the Spike's upper.

You can use high caps. Why don't you articulate why it is that you believe that you cannot???

If you have 'em, use 'em. However, it is illegal to import, sell, give, transfer, lend, etc high capacity magazines beginning 1/1/2000. So, hopefully you had some of the mags before the ban.

[CCWFacts]

as others said, any lower with any caliber markings is legal for use with a dedicated .22 upper.

Just to clarify, because it's an important point: a listed lower is not legal no matter what configuration it's in, unless it is registered? Is that correct?

[AngelDecoys]

Just to clarify, because it's an important point: a listed lower is not legal no matter what configuration it's in, unless it is registered? Is that correct?

That is correct. Using a listed lower, no matter the upper would be very bad. (unless its registered of course ;))

[CCWFacts]

Is it time for a larger caliber rimfire round?????

Or is it not practical / feasible.....

There were much larger rimfires in the past. I think they had rimfires up to about 50 cal or so. These wouldn't be practical today. One obvious limitation is that the case in the rim area must be soft enough to crush, which puts quite a limit on the amount of pressure the case can take. I guess that doesn't matter in tiny calibers like 22lr, but makes the whole thing into a very low-pressure round at larger calibers. There must be other problems with this too otherwise some of these cartridges would have survived.

A quick search turns up the 41 Rimfire Short (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.41_Rimfire_Cartridge), which gave all of a whopping 425 fps. No one would accept such a cartridge today.

[BroncoBob]

If I were to build a dedicated 22 rimfire AR using a Spikes Tactical lower marked "22LR", and a Spikes Tactical dedicated 22LR upper, would it be legal to have a pistol grip, folding stock and flashider on it?


The nice thing about rimfires they are exempt from AW laws. You can do what your pocket book can stand. Case in point here is my dedicated Spikes 22lr. No flash hider on it as I took that off for a fake can.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-012F-2.jpg

[eltee]

You can use high caps. Why do you articulate why it is that you believe that you cannon???

If you have 'em, use 'em. However, it is illegal to import, sell, give, transfer, lend, etc high capacity magazines beginning 1/1/2000. So, hopefully you had some of the mags before the ban.

Because I thought the mags that fit the Spike's .22's (Black Dog?) were designed and made post-ban and therefore there could not be pre-ban mags for that specific gun that are sitting in my gunsafe (i.e., Butler Creeks, etc.)

[Meplat]

A larger caliber at the same pressure can be much more potent.




There were much larger rimfires in the past. I think they had rimfires up to about 50 cal or so. These wouldn't be practical today. One obvious limitation is that the case in the rim area must be soft enough to crush, which puts quite a limit on the amount of pressure the case can take. I guess that doesn't matter in tiny calibers like 22lr, but makes the whole thing into a very low-pressure round at larger calibers. There must be other problems with this too otherwise some of these cartridges would have survived.

A quick search turns up the 41 Rimfire Short (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.41_Rimfire_Cartridge), which gave all of a whopping 425 fps. No one would accept such a cartridge today.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Because I thought the mags that fit the Spike's .22's (Black Dog?) were designed and made post-ban and therefore there could not be pre-ban mags for that specific gun that are sitting in my gunsafe (i.e., Butler Creeks, etc.)

Spike's .22LR uppers are based on the same system as the Ciener conversion units, so if you had any Ciener 30 round mags before the ban then you can use them with your new Spike's upper.

http://www.22lrconversions.com/m16ar15.gif

[DedEye]

Spike's .22LR uppers are based on the same system as the Ciener conversion units, so if you had any Ciener 30 round mags before the ban then you can use them with your new Spike's upper.

http://www.22lrconversions.com/m16ar15.gif

Not only that, Ciener 30 round mags are compatible with Spike's 27 round magazines, so you can rebuild the Cieners into Spike's mags.

[eltee]

Better and better news all the time. I have Ceiners from a conversion kit I sold. Also have some Colt 22 mags from their conversion kit. These will fit in a Spike's lower...great! THANK YOU for the education. I guess I was confused looking at the "full bodied" mags vs. the long established Ceiner type mags with the narrower bodies.

[DedEye]

Better and better news all the time. I have Ceiners from a conversion kit I sold. Also have some Colt 22 mags from their conversion kit. These will fit in a Spike's lower...great! THANK YOU for the education. I guess I was confused looking at the "full bodied" mags vs. the long established Ceiner type mags with the narrower bodies.

If you live in the Bay Area, come to Bullseye and we can help you get your Spike's dedicated .22 rifle and upper ;).

Black Dog Machine actually started out producing the skinny magazines like Ciener, but switched to the more aesthetically pleasing full body design a while ago.

[fonionrings]

Absolutely. Rimfire rifles are exempt from AW laws.

In fact you could make it with whatever lower you wanted, as long as the upper is rimfire you are good to go.

Sorry for diggin up old posts, but just to be perfectly clear: this includes a removable magazine?

[rudedude916]

Spikes needs to make a 17hmr upper.

[ohsmily]

Sorry for diggin up old posts, but just to be perfectly clear: this includes a removable magazine?

If you ask that question, then you don't understand WHY it is OK to have a detachable magazine and evil features on a rimfire ar-type rifle.

So, me telling you "yes" doesn't really help you out much b/c you won't be able to explain to a cop, your friends, or anyone else why it is legal when they ask you about it. Do some reading.

[Gator Monroe]

WASR 22's are the AKM's that can have PG & detachable mags in PRK !

[DedEye]

If you ask that question, then you don't understand WHY it is OK to have a detachable magazine and evil features on a rimfire ar-type rifle.

So, me telling you "yes" doesn't really help you out much b/c you won't be able to explain to a cop, your friends, or anyone else why it is legal when they ask you about it. Do some reading.

Definitely.

The flowchart doesn't help because it's for semi-automatic, centerfire rifles.

Think of it like this: Is the firearm a rifle?

If no, then go to the appropriate laws regarding AW pistols and/or shotguns.

If yes, is it semi-automatic?

If no, then it's not covered by AW laws.

If yes, is it centerfire?

If yes, go here (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf).

If it isn't centerfire, which a rimfire, by definition, is NOT, then AW laws don't apply to it.

[bwiese]

That is correct. Using a listed lower, no matter the upper would be very bad. (unless its registered of course ;))

Correct.

Possession of a listed bare lower (not operational firearm) is a defendable case, however. (It is not recommended conduct, though, to retain it. It's a transitory transitory emergency step for someone finding himself with an illegal unregistere dCategory 1 or 2 AW in CA. )

After immediate disassembly, a lawyer is contacted to arrange surrender of the receiver to LEO with concomitant arrangement of no charges.

[JDay]

Absolutely. Rimfire rifles are exempt from AW laws.

In fact you could make it with whatever lower you wanted, as long as the upper is rimfire you are good to go.

Lowers on the list are banned by name so you cannot use those unless you registered one before the deadline.