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hawk81
10-02-2008, 2:54 PM
I tried ordering some .308 ammo from them, and they said they won't ship to California. They will only ship to ffl's. This is a bunch of BS. Well, they just lost all of my future business. Good job Century.

bigthaiboy
10-02-2008, 2:58 PM
As far as I know Century Arms does ship ammo to CA, but only if you have a FFL01 or FFL03 on file with them. After all the are a major importer and distributer, and not a retailer like J&G Sales.

hawk81
10-02-2008, 3:04 PM
They ship to people in other states, other than California, without FFL'S.

-hanko
10-02-2008, 3:05 PM
I tried ordering some .308 ammo from them, and they said they won't ship to California. They will only ship to ffl's. This is a bunch of BS. Well, they just lost all of my future business. Good job Century.
CAI started this at least a couple of months ago. Get your C&R license & order direct.;)

-hanko

bigthaiboy
10-02-2008, 3:28 PM
They ship to people in other states, other than California, without FFL'S.


I have ordered ammo from CAI on many occasions and as recently as 3 months ago, but then they have my C&R license on file.

I assume you were trying to buy their German 7.62 NATO October special of 200rds for $85. Perhaps you can find someone with a C&R to order it for you.

CAI ammo policy on their website:

Ammunition Sales Policy - FFL (01) dealers are exempt:

Sales of ammunition in CA to FFL dealers only.
Sales of ammunition in IL to any resident.

No direct sales of ammunition to Montgomery County and Annapolis, MD., residents.

No direct sales of ammunition to MA or NJ residents.

No direct sales of ammunition to New York City residents (all boroughs), Yonkers, NY residents.

No direct sales of ammunition to Cincinnati, OH residents.

A “license to sell ammunition” from the State of WA is required to purchase ammunition for non FFL dealers.

Sales of ammunition to NV residents. No sales of metal penetrating bullets capable of being fired from a handgun.

X-NewYawker
10-02-2008, 3:48 PM
I have been hearing this from every manufacturer. No ammo sales direct into LA.

dribbler
10-02-2008, 4:07 PM
I have been hearing this from every manufacturer. No ammo sales direct into LA.

taken from samco global
No sales of Ammunition Delivered to Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, all of Orange County or San Francisco, and Counties including Napa, Ventura, and Yolo..
http://www.samcoglobal.com/FAQ.html

...and, since when do you have to be 21 to buy certain ammo? must be 21 to buy 762x39 from them.

shark92651
10-02-2008, 5:18 PM
Did I miss some recent or pending legislation that restricts ammo shipments to Orange County? Both of the companies referenced above say no ammo to OC. Is there some DOJ FUD being spread to these retailers or something else going on?

FEDUPWBS
10-02-2008, 5:23 PM
old news. They are simply scared of future litigation from our very capable politicians, cheers.

apbrian112
10-02-2008, 5:25 PM
taken from samco global
No sales of Ammunition Delivered to Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, all of Orange County or San Francisco, and Counties including Napa, Ventura, and Yolo..
http://www.samcoglobal.com/FAQ.html

...and, since when do you have to be 21 to buy certain ammo? must be 21 to buy 762x39 from them.

21 is the age to buy handgun ammo... most if not all places will not sell you pistol caliber ammo if you're under 21.

reminds me of a story of some guy purchasing a pistol caliber rifle and wanting to buy some ammo. the store he bought the rifle from wouldn't let him purchase the ammo. crazy huh?

shark92651
10-02-2008, 5:55 PM
old news. They are simply scared of future litigation from our very capable politicians, cheers.

This doesn't make sense to me - why single out Orange County and a couple others?

from Century Internaltion Arms website:
CALIFORNIA CUSTOMERS: Handguns must be on the California approved list for sales to FFL licensees. No C&R licenses can purchase handguns. No High Capacity magazine sales over 10 rds. No sales of Ammunition delivered to Los Angeles, all of Orange County or San Francisco. Check for other Local & State laws before ordering.

LA, SF, and Orange County specifically singled out.


From Samco Global website:
CALIFORNIA CUSTOMERS: No sales of M59/66 and M59/66A1 SKS and High Capacity magazines. C & R holders may purchase C & R rifles only if made prior to 1957 regardless if the rifle appears on the federal C & R list. All CA dealers are required to provide their CFD# before ordering. No sales of Ammunition Delivered to Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, all of Orange County or San Francisco, and Counties including Napa, Ventura, and Yolo..

Again, why these specific counties? I would understand if they just said "no sales to California", I'd just chalk that up to a refusal to deal with our State but when they single out individual counties I have to believe they are getting some specific pressure put on them from these counties officials.

bigthaiboy
10-02-2008, 5:59 PM
7.62x39mm is often classified as pistol ammo, so you will need to be 21.

At the 1994 SHOT Show, Olympic Arms introduced the OA-93 AK pistol, which was blamed for driving the BATF to reclassify 7.62x39mm as a pistol round. This was because at the time, the US market was flooded with cheap chinese steel core 7.62mm ammo, which BATF had decided that if used in an OA-93 would qualify as armor piercing pistol ammunition, which was banned. This is one of the main reasons that led to a ban on the importation of cheap ammo from China.

Many vendors still abide to this classification.

bigthaiboy
10-02-2008, 6:07 PM
taken from samco global
No sales of Ammunition Delivered to Los Angeles, Oakland, Sacramento, all of Orange County or San Francisco, and Counties including Napa, Ventura, and Yolo..
http://www.samcoglobal.com/FAQ.html


Many ammo suppliers seem to go by that list. It's mainly due to local ordinances which require ammo sales to be logged, but I have yet met anyone who can explain to me why Orange County is in that list.

A60P
10-02-2008, 7:16 PM
:beatdeadhorse5:

hawk81
10-02-2008, 7:32 PM
I am 27 years old and live in Riverside County. No excuses. This is bull ****.

NeoWeird
10-02-2008, 9:30 PM
This was talked about on arf a while back.

Most places, like CIA, that have handguns and sell ammo will sell the ammo as handgun ammo. Since they sell AK pistols they will consider 7.62x39 as pistol ammo and you will need to be 21 to order it. This is a federal regulation. Now the federal regulation states that if they feel that the ammo will be used in a rifle they can still sell it, but some places just have a flat out 'no' policy. Big 5 was that way. I bought a Ruger 10/22; they wouldn't let me buy .22 ammo for it on the day of pick up. I had to go across the street to K-mart and get it.

As for the local ordnances, they are correct in most regards. There are local ordnances that restrict the shipping of ammo directly to residential addresses in certain areas. It's like shipping magazines of any size to New York city or ammo of any kind to Washington D.C. It's just local ordnances.

Now the kicker with Orange County is that they have the WRONG Orange County. Paul, one of the two hometown forum staff members on arf found a while back that the Orange County that restricts ammo shipments is actually back east, in Florida if I remember right. Somehow someone along the lines figured it HAD to be the Orange County in coomie California and everyone has followed in suit ever since. Several people tried to correct the mistake but most places are too pretentious or closed minded to listen. Shipping ammo to Orange County California is legal, but they just don't get it. It's like SG and CTD not shipping surplus M16 furniture here but they over look things like tracers. It's just ignorance.

ANd last I head CIA would NOT honor 03FFLs in California for ammo. Now this was a LONG while ago and I just never bothered to look their way again once I heard that, but that WAS the way it was going to be. They may have smartened up and changed it though. I rmember they had a great deal on that 5.45 WASP ammo that came in a while back and they rejected several 03FFLs and it caused a stink. Like I said, they may have changed policy, but last I heard (again a LONG time ago) 03s weren't going to be allowed any more either.

shark92651
10-02-2008, 9:42 PM
Not to beat the dead horse (apparently I am boring some forum members), but I am going to try to get a letter from the Orange County government that says ammo shipments to Orange County are not prohibited and send to some of these companies to see if they are willing to change their policy. Does anybody know which department would be best to answer this kind of inquiry? Or did someone actually take it to this level in their attempts to clear up the misinformation?

SJgunguy24
10-02-2008, 10:02 PM
Many ammo suppliers seem to go by that list. It's mainly due to local ordinances which require ammo sales to be logged, but I have yet met anyone who can explain to me why Orange County is in that list.

Anaheim and Santa Ana are in O.C.? I just thumbed through my book and it doesn't say anything. These 2 city's do have special provisions but they are for "dealers".

L.A. muni code says ammo sales require I.D., date and time of ammo purchase, type of ammo (brand and caliber), and thumb print if needed. Ammo sales can only be done through a dealer or vendor.

There is a backdoor, for L.A. if you look really hard you just might find it;)

nick
10-02-2008, 10:04 PM
Or you can just buy from other suppliers who have no such issues.

bigthaiboy
10-03-2008, 12:05 AM
ANd last I head CIA would NOT honor 03FFLs in California for ammo. Now this was a LONG while ago and I just never bothered to look their way again once I heard that, but that WAS the way it was going to be. They may have smartened up and changed it though. I rmember they had a great deal on that 5.45 WASP ammo that came in a while back and they rejected several 03FFLs and it caused a stink. Like I said, they may have changed policy, but last I heard (again a LONG time ago) 03s weren't going to be allowed any more either.

CAI announced towards the end of last year, they would not sell ammo to FFL03 account holders in CA, but reversed the decision. about 5 months later in about April this year. The sales rep at CAI, I deal with told me about the turnaround, so I took the opportunity to order some FNH 5.56mm ammo from them. I've ordered ammo a couple of times since. So currently Century do sell ammo to C&R license holders on file with them.

bigthaiboy
10-03-2008, 12:16 AM
I am 27 years old and live in Riverside County. No excuses. This is bull ****.

It's not excuses. Like previously stated. It's nothing to do with your location or your age. Century clearly states in their policy that they don't sell ammo to the public in CA, but only to FFL licensees on file with them. Perhaps you should have checked their terms and conditions before attempting to place an order.

NeoWeird
10-03-2008, 5:07 PM
CAI announced towards the end of last year, they would not sell ammo to FFL03 account holders in CA, but reversed the decision. about 5 months later in about April this year. The sales rep at CAI, I deal with told me about the turnaround, so I took the opportunity to order some FNH 5.56mm ammo from them. I've ordered ammo a couple of times since. So currently Century do sell ammo to C&R license holders on file with them.

That's very good to know. I missed a couple good deals because I just didn't bother to check. I'll have to keep my eye open from now on.

Thanks.

hawk81
10-04-2008, 10:05 PM
Perhaps they should not make up their own laws and piss off customers. I own 5 CIA rifles (FAL,Golani,3 mosin nagants, Fn 1949 egyptian), and will not ever buy any more of their rifles, due to this.

It's not excuses. Like previously stated. It's nothing to do with your location or your age. Century clearly states in their policy that they don't sell ammo to the public in CA, but only to FFL licensees on file with them. Perhaps you should have checked their terms and conditions before attempting to place an order.

5hundo
10-04-2008, 10:18 PM
Perhaps they should not make up their own laws and piss off customers. I own 5 CIA rifles (FAL,Golani,3 mosin nagants, Fn 1949 egyptian), and will not ever buy any more of their rifles, due to this.

Well, if it's any help to you, Midway shipped to me and they even run specials from time-to-time.

When I ordered my Krag ammo last week, they had a special on .308... ;)

EDIT:

Linky: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=741441&utm_source=hdblackhillsammo_img&utm_medium=homepage100108

Peragro
10-16-2008, 6:43 PM
Please forgive me if this bores some or is old news. I didn't know until last week when I placed an order with CAI that they don't ship ammo to CA. I live in Kern Country and am almost 40, it never occurred to me that there would be a problem as I've ordered from several different places successfully before.

I wanted some old Bulgarian 7.62x54r ammo. I ordered over the internet and clearly showed my address as CA. I'd read through their policies with regard to providing identification and so on. I didn't see anything about ammunition in CA readily apparent. Several days went by after the order and I'd heard nothing from CAI. I called and spoke to Michelle Mesa. She was very nice and professional and saw my order. She sent me an electronic form to fill out with an ammo declaration and a request for a copy of my ID. She didn't mention anything to me about living in CA - which should have been quite visible on my order, so perhaps this CAI policy isn't as widely known as suggested even to the CAI employees.

I spent some time filling out the paperwork and sent it back to CAI. Michelle sent me the following:

Hi Matt :) Got it & we are getting that order in today :) Have a great weekend!!!!!!

A few minutes later I got an email from Keith Hendrickson:

Hey Matt,

I just spoke to Michelle about this order. Online order#xxxx. I noticed that you live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia. Under Century's Policies we are unable to ship Ammunition to Non- FFL or C&R licensee. So we will have to wait for your C&R to reach us before we can ship this order. So please mail one out so we can get you set-up. Thanks.



Keith Hendrickson

To which I replied:

Hi Keith,

I don't have a C&R or an FFL. I live in Kern county which is one of the more conservative parts of California. As such there are no restrictions on Ammo buying online as there are in San Francisco or parts of LA. I'm able to buy pretty much what anyone else in the country can buy with regards to ammo. Even Sportsman's Guide and Ammo Connection ship to me. I just ordered a tin of 7.62x39 from Ammo Connection in August (shipped very fast BTW).

Please let me know if this is still a problem with your policies and I'll cancel the order and post that info over at Calguns.net so that others here in CA. won't run into the same problem. BTW, Calguns.net forums is an excellent resource for vendors such as yourself who are confused about what's legal in CA and what's not. We've had several out of state dealers change their policies when they find pertinent information on Calguns.net. It opens a very large market for you since 20% of national gun sales go to CA.

Please let me know if you have any questions. I do hope that you all are willing to do business with us here in CA., it does no good for National Gun Rights in general when a whole state is excluded for no legal reason. It pretty much plays into the hands of anti-gun groups who feel they can divide and conquer.

Regards,

I realize that this is on the Rifle Forum. Is there a place on Calguns that this type of vendor information can be posted? I remember reading similar kinds of threads but I can't recall on which sub-forum and I'm pretty much fried after work today, so maybe I'll try and dig up where to cross post tomorrow if no one chimes in before then. I'd like to support businesses that will sell to us in California and likewise avoid those that won't sell to us based on their own policies and not on any CA law.

Again, sorry if this is old news to some, I didn't know about it and I assume there are others that don't or won't as well. Too much information is a good thing, IMO.

CHS
10-16-2008, 7:02 PM
Peragro: BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!

GREAT response.

I do notice that Century states that it's due to their own internal policies, and they don't try to BS you into believing that it's somehow illegal.

I look forward to you posting their response to this issue.

Peragro
10-16-2008, 7:31 PM
The only response I got was:

Customer Peragro

Your order id xxxx from Tuesday, October 07, 2008 02:35

From Century International Arms has a status update in which the status has changed from

Payment Received
to

Order Cancelled

on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:32

The order status update message is: CANCELLED

Please do not reply to this email as it is unmonitored. If you have any questions, please contact us via our online helpdesk or call us at 1-800-527-1252 during normal business hours. If you would like a reprint of your order or to check the status of your order at any time then please visit www.centuryarms.biz and click on View Order Status from the main menu.

Forgot to put that in the last post.

I replied back to Keith since the automated message above does not take replies.

Hi Keith,

I noticed that my order was canceled yesterday. I'm sorry that your company policies restrict you from doing business with me. I mentioned in an earlier email to you that I'd pass along that info to other California gun enthusiasts via the Calguns.org website. I did, however it appears there were others ahead of me that have tried to order ammo from you. The thread can be located at http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=1617930.

I don't know if you have any input into CAI policy or not. If not, please pass this along to someone who might. If you do, I still wish that you would reconsider and legally sell to those of us in CA. I've reordered that ammo I wanted through another company who does ship to CA. As it turns out I own a few CAI rifles according to the inscription on the weapons. I won't be purchasing any more from you until your policies change. I'm sure you'll understand that I wish to support the vendors that will sell to California in accordance with all pertinent laws. It's bad enough already that we have to fight our myopic politicians here in CA with regard to gun rights (and I'm active in that fight), lack of support from other gun enthusiasts outside CA only hurts our common cause.

Regards,

Perhaps they'll swing by here and let us know why they have the policy they have. I'm not doing business with them again until they change the policy.

If I get a reply I'll post it. Still think that a sub-forum on sales or no-sales to CA would be a great idea.