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View Full Version : WOW! I didn't realize it til' now...


ElevenBravO
09-29-2008, 7:56 PM
So I picked up my AR15 last week Tuesday and I found out that I don't have a forward assist. I have Bushmaster C15. I guess that's how they come... Anyone have this issue? Or is this even an issue?

Blue
09-29-2008, 7:59 PM
It's not an issue.

Rabidmonkey777
09-29-2008, 8:00 PM
Useless feature, just adds some weight....

stphnman20
09-29-2008, 8:02 PM
Useless feature, just adds some weight....
HUH?? the foward assist??? are you crazy!! (no offense :))

Rabidmonkey777
09-29-2008, 8:03 PM
never used mine....better to just re-rack.

ElevenBravO
09-29-2008, 8:04 PM
Oh ok... Fo sho

Linus
09-29-2008, 8:04 PM
I wouldn't say "Useless" since it can come in handy when in a pickle.

stphnman20
09-29-2008, 8:05 PM
never used mine....better to just re-rack.
and what if it doesn't battery again??

ElevenBravO
09-29-2008, 8:06 PM
Well... When I went to Basic training in Ft. Benning, I never used mine. Well... I guess I cleaned my rifle all the time when I was in basic

Rabidmonkey777
09-29-2008, 8:08 PM
Then your not lubing it good enough...i dunno, never happened to me like I said, normally a good strong re-rack will slam battery shut? Correct? I guess that philosophy comes from gunsite and what they teach about similar situations with pistols, and that is dont jack with anything and just re-rack.

hawk84
09-29-2008, 9:27 PM
my bushmaster has a forward assist, haven't used it once

shark92651
09-29-2008, 9:39 PM
and what if it doesn't battery again??

Then it's probably time to do some cleaning or otherwise find out what the real problem is. I have the assist on all 3 of my ARs but I honestly have never had to use it even once on any of them. I keep my guns pretty clean, though and use tried and true mags.

ElevenBravO
09-29-2008, 9:42 PM
But I got a Caron 15. Cause I got it through IA (not that I'm blaming them for it), I just think it was originally a top loading and they got rid of that BS and installed a BB and OLL and the C15 just came without the FA. Why would Bushmaster not have a FA on an AR anyways? Oh well... The world will never know

Josh3239
09-29-2008, 10:08 PM
I would guess because the Carbon 15 is sold as a lightweight rifle. Considering the forward assist is near useless it is just extra weight that they figured they could trim.

NeoWeird
09-29-2008, 10:18 PM
The forward assisst was a quick solution to a problem experienced in Vietnam. Original M16s did not have forward assisst nor did they have chrome lined barrels and the hot humid jungle enviornment of Vietnam caused surface rust to form in the barrels. This led to jamming of the weapon so prevalent that it was common place to see soldiers with cleaning rods tapped to the sides of their guns so in the middle of fire fights they could rip the cleaning rod off, ram it down the muzzle, and clear out stuck brass. This also lead to chambers and throats so tight that they would NEVER close under spring tension, so no matter how many times you re-racked it would never close. The solution was to add a forward assisst that could be used to force the carrier closed so it could be fired again. Later they added flash chrome lining to the barrel to prevent rust and the problem has since dissapeared. It has however been left on subsequent models because it's better to have something and not need it than to need it and not have it. I am sure there are some cases, such as if you dropped the gun in mud or a sand storm that forced sand in where it could be potentially useful, but under normal conditions if properly cleaned you should NEVER need it.

As for Bushmaster not making it, it's because the carbon fiber receiver is a strong yet relateively brittle material. The receivers have as little removed as possible to maintain it's strength. This is why Bushmaster made the trigger guard an intergal part of the lower. They also removed the forward assist and replaced the picatinny rail with an aluminum sleeve because the carbon fiber would be too prone to breaking if the rail were made of it.

You do NOT need it, and it's a GOOD thing that it's not on there.

ElevenBravO
09-29-2008, 10:24 PM
Oh ok. Cool! Thanks for that info. Good looking out everyone

stphnman20
09-29-2008, 10:56 PM
I guess I'm speaking from experience. During my time in Iraq, (all 3 tours especially in 03) we didn't have time to clean our rifles. Maybe a quick rub down was all we get. Also, since resupply was never there, every round counted.. I tell this to everyone I meet or training with. Use only what you have on you and us it wisely when SHTF! Yes I know that in basic they tell you to TAP, RACK, BANG. But things have changed.

M. Sage
09-29-2008, 10:57 PM
HUH?? the foward assist??? are you crazy!! (no offense :))

Unless you're in the crap, or unless you want to chamber a round really quietly in your AR, a forward assist is pretty useless.

If your life may depend on forcing the rifle into battery, despite the fact that you'll probably have to stomp on the charging handle to get it open again, or if your life might depend on closing the chamber quietly and slowly, then you need a forward assist.

At least... that's the way I understand it. :p

Bowser
09-29-2008, 11:00 PM
Slick side upper for the win man!!! :chris:

odysseus
09-29-2008, 11:00 PM
The forward assisst was a quick solution to a problem experienced in Vietnam. Original M16s did not have forward assisst nor did they have chrome lined barrels and the hot humid jungle enviornment of Vietnam caused surface rust to form in the barrels. This led to jamming of the weapon so prevalent that it was common place to see soldiers with cleaning rods tapped to the sides of their guns so in the middle of fire fights they could rip the cleaning rod off, ram it down the muzzle, and clear out stuck brass. This also lead to chambers and throats so tight that they would NEVER close under spring tension, so no matter how many times you re-racked it would never close. The solution was to add a forward assisst that could be used to force the carrier closed so it could be fired again. Later they added flash chrome lining to the barrel to prevent rust and the problem has since dissapeared. It has however been left on subsequent models because it's better to have something and not need it than to need it and not have it. I am sure there are some cases, such as if you dropped the gun in mud or a sand storm that forced sand in where it could be potentially useful, but under normal conditions if properly cleaned you should NEVER need it.

As for Bushmaster not making it, it's because the carbon fiber receiver is a strong yet relateively brittle material. The receivers have as little removed as possible to maintain it's strength. This is why Bushmaster made the trigger guard an intergal part of the lower. They also removed the forward assist and replaced the picatinny rail with an aluminum sleeve because the carbon fiber would be too prone to breaking if the rail were made of it.

You do NOT need it, and it's a GOOD thing that it's not on there.

As usual NeoWeird, a concise, well written, and thorough explanation.

.

stphnman20
09-29-2008, 11:04 PM
Unless you're in the crap, or unless you want to chamber a round really quietly in your AR, a forward assist is pretty useless.

If your life may depend on forcing the rifle into battery, despite the fact that you'll probably have to stomp on the charging handle to get it open again, or if your life might depend on closing the chamber quietly and slowly, then you need a forward assist.

At least... that's the way I understand it. :p

Read the post above yours!

anyways, like you said "Unless your in the crap" well everyone here keeps talking about "SHTF" Well i've been there!!! and I want to share me experience you all of you. So when SHTF (whenever that happens) you know what to do.

ElevenBravO
09-30-2008, 2:41 AM
Read the post above yours!

anyways, like you said "Unless your in the crap" well everyone here keeps talking about "SHTF" Well i've been there!!! and I want to share me experience you all of you. So when SHTF (whenever that happens) you know what to do.

What's SHTF???

stphnman20
09-30-2008, 6:59 AM
What's SHTF???
S*** Hits The Fan.

Solidsnake87
09-30-2008, 9:15 AM
The forward assist is meant as an aid in the event that dirt or grime attaches to the BCG and locks up the action during cycling/loading. You'll notice that the C-15 can flex easily under pressure. Aluminum does not. Since the carbon fiber is more elastic then the receiver should be able to "flex" around grime--in theory. lol. Thats what bushmaster told me when I asked them--makes sense. I have a feeling that they also left it out because carbon fiber is much weaker in shear force resistance than aluminum. I'm sure it would also make the molding process more complicated.

Sniper3142
09-30-2008, 9:46 AM
I won't own an AR15 without a Forward Assist because of my experience.

When my M16A2 failed to fully close due to the fine dirt found in Somalia Africa, the Forward Assist enabled me to get my rifle back into action.

Nuff said.

double_action
09-30-2008, 9:59 AM
I always heard that the problems with the M16 in Vietnam jamming was a result of too much fouling caused by using ball propellants instead of IMR propellants,the tight tolerances, and not enough cleaning, not by rust.

Olav
09-30-2008, 10:19 AM
So I picked up my AR15 last week Tuesday and I found out that I don't have a forward assist. I have Bushmaster C15. I guess that's how they come... Anyone have this issue? Or is this even an issue?

I have that issue too.

http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/olava1/Sundevil%20AR/th_IMG_1094.jpg (http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/olava1/Sundevil%20AR/IMG_1094.jpg)

ElevenBravO
09-30-2008, 11:27 AM
I have that issue too.



Where did you get the dust cover? Mine didn't even come with one. WTF?!?!?! I'm missing all these parts. Ahahaha....

Army
09-30-2008, 12:29 PM
I always heard that the problems with the M16 in Vietnam jamming was a result of too much fouling caused by using ball propellants instead of IMR propellants,the tight tolerances, and not enough cleaning, not by rust.
Yes. Winchester changed the powder type without consulting the Ordnance Corp. The resulting heavy fouling caused the jams so infamous with the M16. The ammo was quickly changed back to original specs, and case lots of the bad ammo were evacuated from Vietnam.

In 1966, the A1 (chrome chamber and bore--forward assist--cleaning gear issued with new buttstock) was implimented and fielded by 1967, negating any problem with bad ammo that may have stayed in-country. The A2 added a 3 round burst clutch, brass deflector for lefties, more sophisticated sights, new barrel contour, longer buttstock, and new pistol grip.

A4 added removeable carry handle (A3 for Navy retained full auto switch. Some models can be found with a 4 position switch that includes burst)

Latest modification is to replace all handguards with railed system.

M. Sage
09-30-2008, 1:48 PM
Read the post above yours!

anyways, like you said "Unless your in the crap" well everyone here keeps talking about "SHTF" Well i've been there!!! and I want to share me experience you all of you. So when SHTF (whenever that happens) you know what to do.

I read it, not everybody is into SHTF planning. Some people just have target, competition or plinking rifles. :p A forward assist is pretty useless on a rifle that's going to be used for three-gun or high power.

Personally, I'd take the forward assist, but I have an AK clone, and don't have to worry about dirt for the most part. :sleeping:

Just a note: don't space words out to get around the word filter, kay? It makes Kestryll unhappy. ;)

Josh3239
09-30-2008, 2:25 PM
Where did you get the dust cover? Mine didn't even come with one. WTF?!?!?! I'm missing all these parts. Ahahaha....

Dust covers were never put on Carbon 15s, just like the forward assist was never put on them.