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View Full Version : Check out the ultimate battle rifle


ricknadine1111
09-29-2008, 7:56 AM
http://images.military.com/NL_WK/1,14845,6256,00.html

PatriotnMore
09-29-2008, 8:00 AM
Whats up with the chubby guy, even his shooting stance looks bad?
http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=172738&ESRC=dod.nl

savasyn
09-29-2008, 9:29 AM
Thanks for the link, there were some interesting stories on that page. I used to love the G11 when I was a kid. Don't know why, it just seemed cool.

gunshack
09-29-2008, 10:18 AM
Any article about the FAL will inevitably fail to mention the main reason the M14 was chosen by the US. The FAL was designed as a 300 to 600 yard infantry weapon, the M14 as a 400 to 800 yard infantry weapon. The M14 has also seen action as a 1000 yard DMR rifle and has had confirmed kills further than that.

Give an armorer a FAL to set up as a 1000 yard DMR rifle and he'll shoot himself with it out of frustration.

I love the FAL, but really, ultimate battle rifle? Ok, I'll agree, if you can't afford an M14.

Cypriss32
09-29-2008, 11:10 AM
Any article about the FAL will inevitably fail to mention the main reason the M14 was chosen by the US. The FAL was designed as a 300 to 600 yard infantry weapon, the M14 as a 400 to 800 yard infantry weapon. The M14 has also seen action as a 1000 yard DMR rifle and has had confirmed kills further than that.

Give an armorer a FAL to set up as a 1000 yard DMR rifle and he'll shoot himself with it out of frustration.

I love the FAL, but really, ultimate battle rifle? Ok, I'll agree, if you can't afford an M14.

LOL ive owned 3 M1as, 1 standered, one Loaded, and one work over scout I jsut picked up. Id take a FAL any day over a M1A as a battle rifle....

gunshack
09-29-2008, 11:22 AM
If the only M14 clone you've experienced is a sproingfeld armory M1A then you don't know what your missing.

In that case I don't blame you for picking the FAL. ;)

50 Freak
10-04-2008, 7:01 PM
I've owned a M-14 before (no not a M1A) and if STHF I'd pick up the FAL in a heartbeat.

P.S. got rid of the M-14...I now own multiple FALS.

And lets get this straight...The M-14s were adopted as the MBR only in the US, the FALs were adopted as MBR's by pretty much all the other countries out there.

But lets just keep saying the M-14s are a better rifle because we chose them.

50 Freak
10-04-2008, 7:02 PM
:D:D:D

bobfried
10-04-2008, 8:55 PM
M-14 is the rifle everyone loves to love.

Once you get drag through a few hell hole you'll gravitate towards the FAL real quick. I will say that I think the M-14 is a superior rifle, but when we're talking about survivability and all out toughness necessary in a MBR the FAL just about trounces an M-14.

The litmus test here is very simple: How long was the M-14 in used as a Main Battle rifle? How long was the FAL been in use as a Main Battle Rifle?

We can argue this and that, but in the end, the FAL outlived the M-14 by decades, if that doesn't prove it's better than it at least proves that the US chose the WRONG weapon to adopt.

bobfried
10-04-2008, 8:56 PM
M-14 is the rifle everyone loves to love.

Once you get drag through a few hell hole you'll gravitate towards the FAL real quick. I will say that I think the M-14 is a superior rifle, but when we're talking about survivability and all out toughness necessary in a MBR the FAL just about trounces an M-14.

The litmus test here is very simple: How long was the M-14 in used as a Main Battle rifle? How long was the FAL been in use as a Main Battle Rifle?

We can argue this and that, but in the end, the FAL outlived the M-14 by decades, if that doesn't prove it's better than it at least proves that the US chose the WRONG weapon to adopt.

ricknadine1111
10-04-2008, 9:42 PM
I love mine-
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint004-1.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint005-1.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint001-1.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint002-1.jpg

xibunkrlilkidsx
10-04-2008, 10:42 PM
See this hole argument is not helping my desire to build a .308 battle rifle. FN Fal, Hk91 and ar 10 are all making me extremely angry trying to decide.


Fal deffinently has the win in the service length catagory. But at the same time M14 is making a comeback in the sniper platform. Wrong choice at the time, not sure about that. That time everyone was weary of the "space age materials" They didnt know any better, and had good reason to worry look at the issues of the M16 when it first saw service.

In the end it is all a bias opinion.

DedEye
10-04-2008, 10:48 PM
I love mine-
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint004-1.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint005-1.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint001-1.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint002-1.jpg

Hahaha, I was expecting this to be the first post :p.

yellowfin
10-04-2008, 11:33 PM
If the M14 had come out the first time around shortened and lightened as is the modern configuration, it would have stuck around a lot longer. Exactly why they didn't think of that up front I have no idea.

bobfried
10-05-2008, 1:23 AM
I love mine-
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/m14paint004-1.jpg


Here's mine:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7602/img0022un4.jpg

They're great rifles no doubt.

But here's the competition:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6572/img0018dg0.jpg

I've put thousands of rounds through each one, they both have they're plus and minuses. The thing is, if I was throwing one out of the back of a plane I don't expect my M1A to survive, yours would just about come apart too. I'll bet a few beers my Para-FAL actually would survive.

This is all about combat effectiveness and being bullet proof. The FAL is light years ahead of the M1A when it comes to ergonomics, the basic controls make sense and is easy to use. The M-14 is great, but so was the Garand. Once you start doing modern drills both show it's age but the M-14 is a grandfather where the FAL would only be an older uncle.

..........But at the same time M14 is making a comeback in the sniper platform............

They're NOT. They are only DMR's and not good ones at that. The reports coming out of the big Army and Marines are pretty sad. They just happened to be the only semi-automatic (converted from FA) rifles that used an intermediate rifle round that the military uses for support level machine guns. The military is currently trying to replace them as fast as they can with the new SASS(MK11 for the Marines), this is due very much to the fact that these M-14's do not do well in this role. To keep an M14 sub-MOA you have to do a few tricks that few can actually do. Not to mention that it needs to be re-bed every few hundred rounds to stay MOA, whereas almost any quality AR style rifle made in the past few years will be sub-MOA out of the box and stay sub-MOA for far far longer. I've owned a few M1A's now and everyone that have been through a few will agree with me that it takes alot of skill and money to make an M1A/M14 shoot well. I would go so far as say that an FAL and M14 are equally ill suited for anything but MBR's.

And as an MBR the FAL wins in my book. Ignore the "it's more accurate" argument, if that's the case we'd all be shooting a Mauser based bolt action rifle. The FAL is cheaper, more robust, more ergonomic, easier to use, easier to build, easier to maintain and much easier to configure in various models. This is coming from an M-14 fan, I like the M-14 more, but as an MBR the FAL win.

If you truly wanted an M14 developed as a long range weapon this is what the Estonians did with the M14 that Bill Clinton graciously donated to them:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8565/attachmentjs5.jpg

Max-the-Silent
10-05-2008, 11:02 AM
When it comes to battle rifles, love the caliber and terminal effect, hate to carry and feed the thing.

Even being in good shape, try carrying a FAL, 14 or HK, 220 rounds, 11 mags, web gear, cleaning kit, etc. around all day in the desert or mountains, fire it, clean it, repeat.

It gets old fast.

If you're going to be in an urban area, try using one to clean a house (unless you've got a Lafrance 14K, or an HK51, or a custom chopped FAL)

No joy.

If you're going to sit on a mountain top and never leave, with a endless supply of ammo, a battle rifle is just the ticket. Otherwise, it's a drag.

Having said all that, I'll take a FAL over the 14 for any general use, the 14 over the FAL for accuracy, and I'll leave the HK recoil operated battle rifles at home.

I won't even go into SIG rifles, built like Rolexes, and they are in the same price range. Long before any bans were being talked about, I got a twelve pack of mags for my AMT from Nate at the SF Gun Exchange - iirc it was around $500.00 bucks including tax, and I was happy to get them - nobody had or could get spare SIG mags in the early '80's.

Max-the-Silent
10-05-2008, 11:19 AM
If we're going to post pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/Max-the-Silent/Gun%20Collection/GseriesFAL2.jpg

G series FAL, unfired. This was the display gun at Ellingson's in San Mateo, CA. Purchased when they closed up shop, just prior to the RR law.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/Max-the-Silent/Gun%20Collection/M1A1903match-1.jpg

My two old highpower rifles. Devine Texas M1A, National Match. Springfield NM star-gauged barrel.

M1Atdk
10-07-2008, 1:28 AM
The M14 rifles that Ron Smith builds for the ARMY are way under 1 MOA rifles, there is no bedding at all and have chrome lined barrels. The ARMY wants new technology as does the Marine Corps bottom line. Im a former active duty Marine and i know the military dont always make the right choice.

As far as the weight is concerened about any weapon system is you just have to carry it. Even 12 mags and 3 bandoleers of 5.56 gets heavy i know i had to hump it. When i was a boot i was the biggest guy in my platoon 6'2 235 and i was a SAW gunner when we went to the CAX we went full battle dress and i carried 6 saw drums plus one in the weapon, 2 field phones with wire and three 60mm morters everybody else carried the morters and 2 belts of 7.62 for the M240's. Oh and we humped out to the 400 series ranges out there, any Marine grunts on these forums will know what im talking about.

thedrickel
10-07-2008, 8:09 AM
If we're going to post pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/Max-the-Silent/Gun%20Collection/GseriesFAL2.jpg

G series FAL, unfired. This was the display gun at Ellingson's in San Mateo, CA. Purchased when they closed up shop, just prior to the RR law.

:King:

Please bring that thing to a ShootnQ some time!

gunshack
10-07-2008, 8:56 AM
And lets get this straight...The M-14s were adopted as the MBR only in the US, the FALs were adopted as MBR's by pretty much all the other countries out there.

But lets just keep saying the M-14s are a better rifle because we chose them.

We chose the better rifle irrespective of cost, they chose the more economic alternative.

Like I said; I love the FAL, and still own 3 and doubt I'll ever part with any of them. I know for a fact I'll never part with any of the M14s I own (I lost count.) :D

gunshack
10-07-2008, 9:00 AM
:D:D:D

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/gunshack/My_Guns/DSC02256.jpg

Hoop
10-07-2008, 2:03 PM
See this hole argument is not helping my desire to build a .308 battle rifle. FN Fal, Hk91 and ar 10 are all making me extremely angry trying to decide.


The AR10 is the most livable out of all of them.

dwa
10-07-2008, 2:43 PM
If the M14 had come out the first time around shortened and lightened as is the modern configuration, it would have stuck around a lot longer. Exactly why they didn't think of that up front I have no idea.

id go as far as to say that if the garand had been chambered in the intended .276 peterson leading the m14 to be that would have made a bigger difference. the m 14 is outdated, it can still be made to be useful but then again so can my mosin. the fal is the superior platform for a battlerifle, the m14 is a better designated marksman platform. as a battle rifle because of the lack of pistol grip and inconvient safety the m14 has been exclipsed.