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Kylewolf56
08-20-2016, 4:24 PM
I am sure this has been posted before, but I am new to this site and through the search have not found any recent threads.

My question is:
1. How could I obtain an AR pistol in California legally (or at least legal enough that I don't get weird looks at a range)
2. Is there any legal way to build one from an 80% lower?

If this has been answered before I apologize, if you could post the tread that would be incredibly helpful.

Thanks!

Kylewolf56
08-20-2016, 4:55 PM
https://discountpartsandmore.com/collections/233-complete-pistol/products/ar-15-pistol-kit-complete-with-10-5-barrel-80-lower?variant=18615050310 < this was the exact kit I was looking at

superspartan02
08-20-2016, 5:15 PM
These are my attempts at answering your questions:

Build a pistol AR using an 80% receiver. You will need to build it originally as a single shot (bullet sled w BB and no gas block should suffice). Once you've achieved the sse configuration it would probably be ideal to document it. You can configure it as a semiauto with bb so long as this gets done prior to 1/1/17.

Another option would be to purchase a completed pistol lower via ftf ppt and building it as mentioned above. The third way is purchasing a completed ar pistol ftf via ppt.

There maybe a fourth way but I need to research it more. Hope this helps.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, what I've written is not legal advice and I make no warranties on the information I've discussed.

Michael777
08-20-2016, 5:18 PM
You can buy one PPT or go through the whole 80% lower song and dance.

Kylewolf56
08-20-2016, 5:20 PM
These are my attempts at answering your questions:

Build a pistol AR using an 80% receiver. You will need to build it originally as a single shot (bullet sled w BB and no gas block should suffice). Once you've achieved the sse configuration it would probably be ideal to document it. You can configure it as a semiauto with bb so long as this gets done prior to 1/1/17.

Another option would be to purchase a completed pistol lower via ftf ppt and building it as mentioned above. The third way is purchasing a completed ar pistol ftf via ppt.

There maybe a fourth way but I need to research it more. Hope this helps.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, what I've written is not legal advice and I make no warranties on the information I've discussed.

So If I got that 80% kit, milled it out and installed a single shot sled, documented and photographed it, I should be in the clear?

Kylewolf56
08-20-2016, 5:22 PM
You can buy one PPT or go through the whole 80% lower song and dance.

Super new to this, how would I go about finding one for sale? Is this where I would meet up with an authorized 3rd party to transfer? I assume these require a background check? (no issue just wanna be ready)

Michael777
08-20-2016, 5:26 PM
This forum has a handgun section where people are selling them. Also armslist.com has ppt. You will need a firearms safety card that can be obtained at the gunshop and then you meet the person at the gunshop as well to do the transfer.

Kylewolf56
08-20-2016, 5:28 PM
This forum has a handgun section where people are selling them. Also armslist.com has ppt. You will need a firearms safety card that can be obtained at the gunshop and then you meet the person at the gunshop as well to do the transfer.

Thank you so much for the info. Will be checking both of those out!

NorCalGlock9
08-20-2016, 5:36 PM
So If I got that 80% kit, milled it out and installed a single shot sled, documented and photographed it, I should be in the clear?

You have to manufacture the pistol as a single shot, bolt or break action to be exempt from the handgun roster requirements. So in addition to a single shot sled and BB, it would either need to be bolt or break action. After it has been manufactured in that configuration it is currently legal to convert it to semi-automatic.

Quiet
08-21-2016, 5:42 AM
1. How could I obtain an AR pistol in California legally (or at least legal enough that I don't get weird looks at a range)
Ways to legally obtain an AR style pistol:
A. Buy a SSE2 AR style pistol from a CA FFL dealer.
B. PPT an AR style pistol.
C. Receive an AR style pistol via intra-familial gift.
D. Make an AR style pistol from an "80% receiver". (see answer to question #2 below)

2. Is there any legal way to build one from an 80% lower?

First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a non-detachable 0 round mag/sled*, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.

*non-detachable 0 round mag/sled...
^Until 12-31-2016, a "bullet button" style maglock + 0 round mag/sled will comply with this requirement.
^Starting 01-01-2017, a 0 round mag/sled that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or a solid magazine well will be needed to comply with this requirement.


Second issue... (keeping an AR style pistol CA legal under the new assault weapons laws)

Starting 01-01-2017, in order for it to be considered a fixed magazine, the magazine can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action.

If a AR style pistol is semi-auto and utilizes a "bullet button" style maglock, then it will be considered an assault weapon.

In order to make it legal, one of the following options must be done before 01-01-2018:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Make it so that the pistol's fixed magazine can not be removed without disassembling the pistol's action.
C. Take it out-of-state for storage or to be transferred through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
D. Surrendered to law enforcement for destruction.


Third issue... (required markings)

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]

In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]

Jimi Jah
08-21-2016, 10:19 AM
So If I got that 80% kit, milled it out and installed a single shot sled, documented and photographed it, I should be in the clear?

Yes, until the first of the year. After that, who knows? From what I've read the pistol cannot be registered as a RAW. Then what?

Blade Gunner
08-21-2016, 10:37 AM
I am sure this has been posted before, but I am new to this site and through the search have not found any recent threads.

My question is:
1. How could I obtain an AR pistol in California legally (or at least legal enough that I don't get weird looks at a range)
2. Is there any legal way to build one from an 80% lower?

If this has been answered before I apologize, if you could post the tread that would be incredibly helpful.

Thanks!
Private party to private party sale at an FFL. Legal until 12/21/2016.
80% lower, unless you own a CNC lathe, best of luck with a drill press you have to buy with all the jigs and bits. Expect two mess up your first and second attempts.
Funny looks at the range? Yes you'll look funny trying to consistently hit any thing.
OR
You could buy mine. Completely legal SSE 2014 with all paper work.

Kylewolf56
08-24-2016, 7:15 AM
Private party to private party sale at an FFL. Legal until 12/21/2016.
80% lower, unless you own a CNC lathe, best of luck with a drill press you have to buy with all the jigs and bits. Expect two mess up your first and second attempts.
Funny looks at the range? Yes you'll look funny trying to consistently hit any thing.
OR
You could buy mine. Completely legal SSE 2014 with all paper work.

I have full access to CNC machines, how much are you looking for yours?

Kylewolf56
08-24-2016, 7:16 AM
Ways to legally obtain an AR style pistol:
A. Buy a SSE2 AR style pistol from a CA FFL dealer.
B. PPT an AR style pistol.
C. Receive an AR style pistol via intra-familial gift.
D. Make an AR style pistol from an "80% receiver". (see answer to question #2 below)



First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a non-detachable 0 round mag/sled*, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.

*non-detachable 0 round mag/sled...
^Until 12-31-2016, a "bullet button" style maglock + 0 round mag/sled will comply with this requirement.
^Starting 01-01-2017, a 0 round mag/sled that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or a solid magazine well will be needed to comply with this requirement.


Second issue... (keeping an AR style pistol CA legal under the new assault weapons laws)

Starting 01-01-2017, in order for it to be considered a fixed magazine, the magazine can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action.

If a AR style pistol is semi-auto and utilizes a "bullet button" style maglock, then it will be considered an assault weapon.

In order to make it legal, one of the following options must be done before 01-01-2018:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Make it so that the pistol's fixed magazine can not be removed without disassembling the pistol's action.
C. Take it out-of-state for storage or to be transferred through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
D. Surrendered to law enforcement for destruction.


Third issue... (required markings)

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]

In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]

do I legally need to reg it?

scoobydo
08-25-2016, 6:17 AM
do I legally need to reg it?

Only if you plan on leaving the Bullet Button on it.
Otherwise, it needs to be a break open action or a tubeless single shot in order to not require registration.
However, it does need to REMAIN compliant to be legal.

skyscraper
08-25-2016, 6:20 AM
Yes, until the first of the year. After that, who knows? From what I've read the pistol cannot be registered as a RAW. Then what?

Why is that?

scoobydo
08-25-2016, 6:26 AM
Question of my own:

"Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it"

Can I use a made up business name?
If my name is John Doe and I decide to engrave it "JD Arms" (or some other made up Company name ) does the company name need to have a license or have a DBA registered?

skyscraper
08-25-2016, 7:01 AM
Question of my own:

"Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it"

Can I use a made up business name?
If my name is John Doe and I decide to engrave it "JD Arms" (or some other made up Company name ) does the company name need to have a license or have a DBA registered?

You need a specific FFL license and DBA to do that. Otherwise, your legal name.