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Blacky
09-27-2008, 12:46 AM
First Look at the XM25, the Most Lethal Army Gun Ever...

Here's the first look at the final version of the deadly XM25. We learnt this morning about the weapon's destructive power, but now we have all the details, starting with the key for its destruction power, a built-in fire-control system that can program each of the weapon's 25 millimeter rounds wirelessly, in real time, so soldiers can take down enemies around obstacles:LINK (http://gizmodo.com/5055602/first-look-at-the-xm25-the-most-lethal-army-gun-ever)
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7880/xm2511403921ht6.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6500/firecontrolright0114435du9.jpg
As you can see in the schematics, the fire-control system uses thermal optic, day-sight, laser range finder, compass and IR light to exactly measure the distance to the target, programming each of the rounds' fuses so it explodes next to the target using a wireless connection. According to the US Army, this gives maximum destruction power and minimum collateral damage, while allowing to save barriers that previously didn't allow to reach the target.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2904/firecontrol011493742rf9.jpg
The capability to program the rounds is what allows this weapon to go "around objects". If, for example, there's a sniper hidden behind a trench, the soldier can program each round so they explodes just above the target. The bullets will explode at that exact range, taking down the target thanks to their air bursting power.

The XM25 is capable of firing an air-bursting round out to 600 meters with a 360-degree explosive radius, all with extreme precision according to testers. However, each round doesn't have to be lethal: There will be two kind of non-lethal rounds (blunt and airburst) to neutralize enemies without killing them.

The new system is also user friendly. Apparently, each type of bullet—high explosive air bursting, armor piercing, door breaching, anti-personnel, non-lethal—is color-coded:
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3682/bullets1533230pw5.jpg
All this technology comes at a price, however. The US Army will have to pay $25,000 for each weapon, plus $25 for each programmable 25mm round. The rounds, however, will be absolutely free of charge for terrorists or anyone at the other side of the battlefield, bad guy or passerby.

SJgunguy24
09-27-2008, 12:51 AM
Which round will have the streets running red with the blood of puppy's and kitten's?????:p

Knight
09-27-2008, 12:56 AM
Which round will have the streets running red with the blood of puppy's and kitten's?????:p

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6500/firecontrolright0114435du9.jpg

See the "APIL" tag on the right? That's the "Automatic Puppy Identification Laser." Guides those rounds right into em.' I've heard rumors that an AKIL module is currently in the testing phase and will be implemented on production models in a few months.

ar15barrels
09-27-2008, 1:13 AM
Which round will have the streets running red with the blood of puppy's and kitten's?????:p

Anti Personnel.

gn3hz3ku1*
09-27-2008, 1:24 AM
if it doesnt max out at 10 rds its not LETHAL enough for a Californian like myself

MrLogan
09-27-2008, 2:43 AM
Oooh. Nice.

SJgunguy24
09-27-2008, 7:06 AM
Anti Personnel.

WHAT NO ANTI PUPPY!!!!:eek:

BP88
09-27-2008, 7:36 AM
Seeing as how it's fairly complexed, how reliable do you think this thing would be under harsh conditions?

Suvorov
09-27-2008, 8:34 AM
Army's Most Lethal GUN Ever? Not by a long shot, I give you the M256 120mm Smooth Bore Cannon:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/M1-A1_Abrams_Fire.jpg

Although I'm sure some of my "Cannon Cocker" buddies would beg to argue... ;)

onenevertoconform
09-27-2008, 9:07 AM
I WANT ONE!!!!!!!! or two :rolleyes:
Will it come with a BB????????????:eek:

bohoki
09-27-2008, 9:54 AM
wow how long till we see the baby skull seeking bullet?sVlfP_lH_2k

savasyn
09-27-2008, 10:28 AM
First Look at the XM25, the Most Lethal Army Gun Ever...

LINK (http://gizmodo.com/5055602/first-look-at-the-xm25-the-most-lethal-army-gun-ever)
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7880/xm2511403921ht6.jpg


Geez, how much does that thing weigh?



Hey, wait a minute, it kinda, sorta looks like this:

http://nerdwithswag.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/pulserifle_videojugcom_thestand_nicole-castrale_frank-serpico_lutrine.jpg

savasyn
09-27-2008, 10:32 AM
At $25 a round, seems like you'd only use it on extremely high value targets or special situations. It's like that Chris Rock bit on over pricing ammo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJGcrUk2eE

jandmtv
09-27-2008, 10:36 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9pxjnl1yuXk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9pxjnl1yuXk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

blackberg
09-27-2008, 11:05 AM
Has anyone noticed how the High Explosive and the Non Lethal are somewhat the same color? :D

-bb
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3682/bullets1533230pw5.jpg

dwa
09-27-2008, 11:45 AM
so theyre actually going to field it, that things been around for a while, i kinda like the concept always thought the m203 was a joke if it works out this would be a big step up.

Fate
09-27-2008, 11:48 AM
The jungles of VietNam and the Silica sand of Iraq would kill that rifle in a matter of hours. Guess it must be designed to use on US. :TFH:;)

Bongos
09-27-2008, 11:56 AM
This looks like a modify tommy gun

http://nerdwithswag.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/pulserifle_videojugcom_thestand_nicole-castrale_frank-serpico_lutrine.jpg[/QUOTE]

the one in the original post looks like it's something out of an Appleseed Animate movie :43:

ar15barrels
09-27-2008, 12:32 PM
wow how long till we see the baby skull seeking bullet?

:rofl2:

Wrong turn...

Shtgnr
09-27-2008, 6:13 PM
First Look at the XM25, the Most Lethal Army Gun Ever...

Give one of them to my 3 boys (15, 12, 7) and I can guarantee you that within 1 hour and 3 sodas later, it will be the most lethal, sticky, slag of parts sitting in a box, ever....

N6ATF
09-27-2008, 11:19 PM
I swear I saw that on FutureWeapons.

Beatone
09-27-2008, 11:52 PM
I want one. Group buy? :D

motorhead
09-28-2008, 12:16 AM
where are the rails?
the first prototype of this was piggybacked to a smaller caliber, selective fire weapom ala 203. they also have plans to integrate this into the landwarrior computer system.

Quiet
09-28-2008, 12:47 AM
The Alliant Techsystems/H&K XM-29 SABR was canceled in 2005 because it weighted too much.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/oicw.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/assault/oicw2.jpg

Knight
09-28-2008, 2:11 AM
The Alliant Techsystems/H&K XM-29 SABR was canceled in 2005 because it weighted too much.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/oicw.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/assault/oicw2.jpg

. . . . Hence the development of the two-off-shoot programs, the XM8 assault rifle and the XM25 grenade launcher, the latter program's result being the subject of this topic.

motorhead
09-28-2008, 9:04 AM
probably a good idea. it did look cumbersome.

Max-the-Silent
09-28-2008, 9:46 AM
Somebody spent too much time reading Starship Troopers.

I'll stick with conventional rifles, conventional ammo, artillery support & TacAir.

smle-man
09-28-2008, 11:42 AM
Army's Most Lethal GUN Ever? Not by a long shot, I give you the M256 120mm Smooth Bore Cannon:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/M1-A1_Abrams_Fire.jpg

Although I'm sure some of my "Cannon Cocker" buddies would beg to argue... ;)


http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/smle-man/atomcannon2.jpg

Sorry, this is the most lethal gun ever!

Blacky
09-28-2008, 12:14 PM
Somebody spent too much time reading Starship Troopers.

I'll stick with conventional rifles, conventional ammo, artillery support & TacAir.

I remember that movie...

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/413/scan29203240za2.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan29203240za2.jpg)http://img512.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Blacky
09-28-2008, 12:31 PM
Maybe not as lethal but one of if not the biggest.

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/99/tbgunlg41c24efdpo1.jpg

jumbopanda
09-28-2008, 12:45 PM
The XM25 isn't a "gun", it's a grenade launcher. It will only be issued to a few soldiers and won't replace the rifle.

Blacky
09-28-2008, 1:07 PM
DEFENSE TECH (http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004440.html)
For once it seems the Army is actually turning fiction into science.

After nearly a decade in the shadows -- with billions spent on earlier versions long since abandoned -- the Army is moving quickly to field a revolutionary new weapon to Joes a lot sooner than anyone had ever imagined.

It's a weapon that can take out a bad guy behind a wall, beyond a hill or below a trench, and do it more accurately and with less collateral damage than anything on the battlefield today, officials say. It's called the XM25 Individual Air Burst Weapon, and by next month the service will have three prototypes of the precision-guided 25mm rifle ready for testing.

"We've done a lot of testing with this, and what we're seeing is the estimated increase in effectiveness is six times what we'd be getting with a 5.56mm carbine or a grenade launcher," said Rich Audette, Army Deputy Project Manager for Soldier weapons.

"What we're talking about is a true 'leap ahead' in lethality, here. This is a huge step," Audette added during a phone interview with Military.com from his office at Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey.

Born of the much-maligned and highly-controversial Objective Individual Combat Weapon -- a 1990s program that sought a "leap ahead" battle rifle that combined a counter-defilade weapon with a carbine -- the XM25 only recently gained new momentum after the Army formalized a requirement and released a contract in June for a series of test weapons.

Current infantry weapons can shoot at or through an obstacle concealing enemy threats, but the Army has been trying for years to come up with a weapon for engaging targets behind barriers without resorting to mortars, rockets or grenades -- all of which risk greater collateral damage. After fits and starts using a 20mm rifle housed in a bulky, overweight, complicated shell, technology finally caught up to shave the XM25 from 21 pounds to a little more than 12 pounds.

If the XM25 does what its developers hope, it will be able to fire an air-bursting round at a target from 16 meters away out to 600 meters with a highly accurate, 360-degree explosive radius.

The XM25 is about as long as a collapsed M4, weighs about as much as an M16 with an M203 grenade launcher attached and has about as much kick as a 12-gauge shotgun, said Barb Muldowney, Army deputy program manager for infantry combat weapons.

The semi-auto XM25 comes with a four-round magazine, though testers are looking at whether to increase the capacity to as much as 10 rounds.

Brains are what really makes this Buck Rogers gun work -- it has them. The weapon combines a thermal optic, day-sight, laser range finder, compass and IR illuminator with a fire-control system that wirelessly transmits the exact range of the target into the 25mm round's fuse before firing.

A Soldier can aim the XM25 at a wall concealing a sniper, for example, but "dial in" or adjust the distance by an additional meter above the target. When fired, the Alliant Teksystems-built round will explode above the enemy's position, essentially going around the obstruction, Muldowney said.

"It's so accurate, that when I laze to that target I'm going to be able to explode that round close enough that I'm going to get it," Audette added.

The service hopes to field several types of 25mm rounds for the XM25 -- for breaching doors, piercing armor, even non-lethal air burst and impact rounds, and an anti-personnel round.

Testers at Picatinny plan to put the XM25 through its paces over the next several months, certifying it as safe for a Soldier to operate and tinkering with the weapon's effectiveness and durability.

The weapon costs about $25,000 each, but experts were quick to point out that a fully-loaded M4 for optics and pointers costs pretty close to $30,000. Each ATK-made 25mm round costs about $25.

As Heckler and Koch, makers of the weapon itself, and L3 Communications -- which makes the fire control system -- crank out more weapons, the Army plans to push them out to the field for testing beginning in March 2009. That could include the first use of such a weapon in combat, Cline said.

If all goes according to plan, Soldiers might have their first XM25s in hand by 2014, far sooner than the Army's small arms community had predicted even last year.

The program "came very close to ending," Audette explained. "But the Army took a look at all the work that was done -- and the testing that projected the kind of lethality increase that we could get -- and they said 'we've got to do this.' "

dwa
09-28-2008, 1:21 PM
theres no way an m-4 with all the goodies costs 30k.

jumbopanda
09-28-2008, 2:05 PM
$30k with all of these maybe? :p
http://www.downloadmunkey.net/images/sopmod_02.jpg

Mssr. Eleganté
09-28-2008, 2:50 PM
...The weapon combines a thermal optic, day-sight, laser range finder, compass and IR illuminator...

Well it's got a compass at least, but what about a thing that tells time? :)

BroncoBob
09-28-2008, 2:56 PM
Oh crap my son is in the army and is in fire control repair. What next????

Blacky
09-28-2008, 3:00 PM
Just to clarify, I am not making this **** up. All of this info. is linked to the original article and author. Personally, I am all for anything that will give me the edge in a fight. Some people are so stuck and locked into their routine that they fear change... which makes no difference to me just as long as they don't get in my way. :43:

Max-the-Silent
09-28-2008, 5:15 PM
I remember that movie...

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/413/scan29203240za2.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan29203240za2.jpg)http://img512.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Read the book. As usual, Hollywood completely ruined a great story.

dwa
09-28-2008, 7:13 PM
$30k with all of these maybe? :p
http://www.downloadmunkey.net/images/sopmod_02.jpg

they dont come with all that, m-4 itself probly in the 1500 range, whichever optic which is purchased seperate from weapon can be up to another 1500 fire control i guessing would also be in the 1500 range but i really dont know.:)

sb_pete
09-29-2008, 5:34 AM
$30k with all of these maybe? :p
http://www.downloadmunkey.net/images/sopmod_02.jpg

LOL, even an M4A1 with dual optic 6x ACOG topped w/ Doctor Optic. with clip on night sights, Thermal imaging, Surefire scout light, Surefire IR illuminator, one of those new HK grenade launchers, a friggin parker hale bipod, an expensive suppressor, BUIS, SOPMOD stock, Match trigger, free-float forearm to replace the KAC one, an AN/PEQ-2 and some other detachable crap for shi^s and giggles...

Even that would be overpriced at 30K, not too mention a handful...

Maybe they meant $3k:rolleyes:

N6ATF
09-30-2008, 12:30 AM
Don't forget how the government has a pathological need to overpay with our tax dollars.

Here's just one example:
http://www.ocweekly.com/2008-08-14/news/moxley-confidential-senator-dick-ackerman-does-the-right-thing-in-the-case-of-james-ochoa/2

In June, the Costa Mesa City Council, supposedly run by tight-fisted conservatives, voted without a word of discussion to bypass competitive bidding and spend $127,212 for just eight Panasonic Toughbook laptop computers.

That's $15,901 per computer.

Or $12,000 more than the highest, non-discounted price I could find for the same computer by shopping online.

Or, even better, a whopping $13,402 more than the suggested retail price offered by Costa Mesa's vendor, Accela Government Solutions.

Army
09-30-2008, 10:56 AM
I still hold that the most lethal Army gun, was the 8" Howitzer.

Screw collateral damage.

offrdmania
09-30-2008, 11:39 AM
That thing sort of reminds me of the gun from beverly hills cop 3. All that it needs now is a microwave oven. lol
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c305/offrdmania/beverlyhillscopgun.jpg

Army
09-30-2008, 11:43 AM
The weapon costs about $25,000 each, but experts were quick to point out that a fully-loaded M4 for optics and pointers costs pretty close to $30,000. Each ATK-made 25mm round costs about $25.


Well, according to this expert...and the current FED-LOG listing that I'm staring at... an M4 carbine will run taxpayers UNDER $600, with the M16A4 at the same price. The Army does NOT buy complete "optics and pointers" packages with the weapon. Hell, even the SCAR is only $1300+.

Regardless of how the thing works, it WON'T if it is not fired into the target. Which makes it no more effective than the current m203. Far too much Buck Rogers crap is coming out of this conflict, for missions that conventional weapons have not been out-dated on.

Ironchef
09-30-2008, 11:53 AM
The jungles of VietNam and the Silica sand of Iraq would kill that rifle in a matter of hours. Guess it must be designed to use on US. :TFH:;)

I'm of the opinion that money is best spent training riflemen to be expert marksmen with what they have...instead of blowing even MORE on new toys that'll have it's share of problems and missed expectations. Our military budget could use a little focus on the actual humans flying/driving/detonating all the latest toys...counter intelligence, espionage, infiltration, etc..rather than metal storm and them fancy guns that shoot around corners (see military channel). Sure I dig 'em and think they're fun to see...but seriously, when SHTF between two opposing forces, one with an AK and one with this new toy...is that money well spent?

I personally like the idea of drone warfare and UAVs. lol Let our high school aged gamers fight the next war.

Blacky
09-30-2008, 12:59 PM
That thing sort of reminds me of the gun from beverly hills cop 3. All that it needs now is a microwave oven. lol
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c305/offrdmania/beverlyhillscopgun.jpg

Got Viagra?
Well, according to this expert...and the current FED-LOG listing that I'm staring at... an M4 carbine will run taxpayers UNDER $600, with the M16A4 at the same price. The Army does NOT buy complete "optics and pointers" packages with the weapon. Hell, even the SCAR is only $1300+.

Regardless of how the thing works, it WON'T if it is not fired into the target. Which makes it no more effective than the current m203. Far too much Buck Rogers crap is coming out of this conflict, for missions that conventional weapons have not been out-dated on.
Hey Army, you must have missed this (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1567853&postcount=37). If you have some facts that you would like to share it might be more productive if you posted a link. "Far too much Buck Rogers crap is coming out of this conflict" and the worst part is, most of it won't even make it to the field.

dilligaffrn
09-30-2008, 2:45 PM
Glock = KISS
AK47 = KISS

XM25 = call to tech support, on hold for 2 hours, then you get to talk to a guy in India, that you can't understand, over a crappy connection, while he reads from a script.......

LOL

But if it work and is Grunt Proof (ya right)...COOL!

drclark
09-30-2008, 3:07 PM
With all that electronics, I wonder how long the batteries will last? When the batteries do go dead will it still shoot manually?

dwa
09-30-2008, 3:41 PM
i heard the jarheads started using thishttp://conspiracyx0.tripod.com/weapons2/MGL2.jpg http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=749
its an updated design of platform thats been aaround for a while, im assumeing its seen action in south africa. they also developed some higher power rounds for it AND it fires all current 40mm rounds. better choice imo

Blacky
09-30-2008, 4:33 PM
A brave new world requires bold new research approaches, we're not riding into battle on horses throwing spears anymore! Ill bet that within the next couple of decades we will see most of the weapons we all see in popular video games become a reality. Future Weapons, its not just a TV show on the Discovery Channel.

Army
10-02-2008, 8:55 AM
Hey Army, you must have missed this (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1567853&postcount=37). If you have some facts that you would like to share it might be more productive if you posted a link. "Far too much Buck Rogers crap is coming out of this conflict" and the worst part is, most of it won't even make it to the field.
I just gave you fact. FED-LOG is the parts ordering system for the military, that not only lists who makes the item, but at what cost to the US taxpayer.

It lists every single item in the US military (not just the Army) that has a stock number, and many tens of thousands of items that are long obsolete (I can order parts for M4 Sherman tanks). FED-LOG also lists complete systems. Among these systems are thousands of weapons types, current and obsolete, and their price tag.

I gave you the current price of the M4 and M16A4. No, I cannot post any link, because FED-LOG is only available on secured disc to Federal and qualified state installations.

And yes, buck Rogers crap. Every backwoods inventor is pushing his latest greatest man killer or flying machine on the military or electronic wonder, much of which is being procurred and fielded......much of which simply isn't needed because we already have capable systems doing the job now. Case in point, the M16 family.

Not one of the many super-duper rifles pushed by HK, FN, Steyr, or Bob's gun factory, does anything so revolutionary over the M16. Granted, I have advocated a piston system for the M16 for over 20 years, and believe that it should be integrated. I do not believe we need a complete....and expensive....replacement rifle just so we can have that piston. In bulk, piston assemblies should cost no more than $200, and can be easily mounted by the thousands of 45B's and 2111's in the various services, which will still keep the cost of a new M16 at around $750-$800. A far cry from the $1300 for a SCAR, or $2300 for a HK 416.

Blacky
10-02-2008, 11:24 AM
Way back in time, before the Internet, when I was about 12, I was assigned to do a report on an Atlatl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlatl). I ended up making one and demonstrated how it was used. I could put an spear through a hula-hoop from about 40 yards and I got an A. I think I mastered the boomerang that summer too. ;)

mooster
10-02-2008, 12:19 PM
At $25 a round, seems like you'd only use it on extremely high value targets or special situations.

That's actually a very good deal for fuzed munitions. The "real" 25mm we have on Bradley is in that ballpark.

This system (if it gets out of LRIP) will be an interesting addition. Unfortunately, the 25mm (high and low velocity) isn't as effective as one would think. Once you get into the 40mm size (grenade or Super 40) the warheads designs become more efficient and interesting.

grammaton76
10-02-2008, 3:20 PM
Only $25/rd? I'm skeptical that the ammo is really that cheap, if it's using wireless and a bunch of other complicated cruft.

bornproud
10-02-2008, 11:21 PM
+1 with Army, not really anything has came up to make the M16 outdated. All the army is going to do is make modifications to it like making it piston driven.

I remember when the 6.8spc came out everybody thought the army was going to change over to that round...................not!!! The us forces have a stock pile in 5.56 rounds and M4/M16 battle rifles that it would be uneconomical for them to switch firearmes or even ammo.

I forget who said it in the begining of this topic but he is correct when saying that some of these Future arms will only be given to the selective few.

PS, there is no link to Fed-Log.

mooster
10-03-2008, 7:34 AM
FED-LOG is FOUO. Only government or gov contractors can buy licenses.

Normal civilians can get access to a very stripped down version at http://www.dlis.dla.mil/WebFlis/pub/pub_search.aspx

We use an application called Haystack Gold by IHS. It's like FED-LOG but with improved search capabilities.

Blacky
10-03-2008, 12:36 PM
People of earth... its just "current event" news, its not the end of the world or even the M4. Thanks for straightening me out, I thought a FED-LOG was what all the backwoods inventors used to make their man killer flying machines... but I might need to hear it a few more times.

Mute
10-03-2008, 1:21 PM
Hmmm, kinda reminds me of an Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space ModulaTOR.

supersonic
10-03-2008, 1:45 PM
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Gary Oldman needs to edumacate himself a little more before talking about weapons: "............a titanium 3000-round CLIP.":rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: