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Dragon
09-26-2008, 6:06 PM
Whats the average price on a GSG-5 ,Ammo bros. sells them for $550+tax+dros ,but they have none in stock ,and not sure when they will get them in.I also think Ammo Bros. are a littil high priced on some things,so I would like to check around first before I buy from them. It seams to me I have heard of peaple talking about them being $500 or slightly less.

Are there any dealers in orange county that carry them.


thanks.

Saigon1965
09-26-2008, 6:07 PM
CWS have/had some - Everyone is selling them at a premium.

gn3hz3ku1*
09-26-2008, 6:08 PM
500 at ddsranch

Dragon
09-26-2008, 6:14 PM
Are these places local ,because if they have to ship them to a ffl that would raise the price .right ?

DedEye
09-26-2008, 6:15 PM
No one in California has them for $500. They're selling like CRAZY and above retail.

Are these places local ,because if they have to ship them to a ffl that would raise the price .right ?

DD's Ranch is in New York and yes, shipping increases the price as your transfer dealer will charge you as well.

Saigon1965
09-26-2008, 6:16 PM
There was/is one in the FS for 625 IIRC - Not bad with some extras. I paid a lot more for mine.


No one in California has them for $500. They're selling like CRAZY and above retail.

Dragon
09-26-2008, 6:27 PM
thanks guys .

Just trying to watch the out going cash flow.

5150Marcelo
09-26-2008, 6:29 PM
thanks guys .

Just trying to watch the out going cash flow.

arent we all!

We shoudnt even be in the FS thread, but its got me addicted!:eek::TFH:

apbrian112
09-26-2008, 6:29 PM
rettings in west LA (culver city) has them IN STOCK at $495 ($560ish otd). i just picked one up on wednesday (well drosed it). give them a call... 2 of my other friends are drosing their today but they can't have many left.

Saigon1965
09-26-2008, 6:34 PM
There you go - Ride over soon or they'll be gone.


rettings in west LA (culver city) has them IN STOCK at $495 ($560ish otd). i just picked one up on wednesday (well drosed it). give them a call... 2 of my other friends are drosing their today but they can't have many left.

Mr10
09-26-2008, 6:45 PM
DDS Ranch has free shipping on its GSG. Give them a call.

apbrian112
09-26-2008, 6:47 PM
yeah but rettings has them at the same price without the high transfer fees or mark-ups that most (if not all) of the other local FFL's are charging.

Dragon
09-26-2008, 6:55 PM
Thanks

I have a hard time spending over $550 for a 22cal rifle,but it is cool looking

X-NewYawker
09-26-2008, 6:57 PM
No one in California has them for $500. They're selling like CRAZY and above retail.



DD's Ranch is in New York and yes, shipping increases the price as your transfer dealer will charge you as well.

$495 at Rettings in Culver City yesterday

Saigon1965
09-26-2008, 6:57 PM
Think of the money you're saving with ammo -

And we should hurry up with this thread before Gator comes around - LOL.


Thanks

I have a hard time spending over $550 for a 22cal rifle,but it is cool looking

Dragon
09-26-2008, 6:59 PM
Ya! saving on ammo is a big plus

pottymouth310
09-26-2008, 7:00 PM
$495 at Rettings in Culver City yesterday

Don't tell everyone.... I'm still thinking of picking one up from them. but they'll sell out:(:(:(

a1fabweld
09-26-2008, 7:02 PM
No one in California has them for $500. They're selling like CRAZY and above retail.
I picked mine up yesterday from River City Guns for $500 + tax + $25 DROS.

DedEye
09-26-2008, 7:03 PM
I stand corrected :o!

gn3hz3ku1*
09-26-2008, 7:16 PM
if you buy out of state then you save on taxes for a 500 dollar rifle.

i have no prob with supporting local stores, but it is the ones that charge above msrp then asks for support that really bugs me..

apbrian112
09-26-2008, 7:18 PM
if you buy out of state then you save on taxes for a 500 dollar rifle.

i have no prob with supporting local stores, but it is the ones that charge above msrp then asks for support that really bugs me..

+1... too bad on a $500 rifle tax is only $40ish (in LA county) while most transfers will cost more than that. and that also only applies to those FFL's who don't collect "use tax".

DedEye
09-26-2008, 7:19 PM
if you buy out of state then you save on taxes for a 500 dollar rifle.

i have no prob with supporting local stores, but it is the ones that charge above msrp then asks for support that really bugs me..

Don't be. Supply and demand is a big factor, not to mention the multitude of fees and expenses that go along with being an FFL in California.

X-NewYawker
09-26-2008, 7:21 PM
8.5% x 495 = 42.00
Out of state transfer fees = 50

I'd rather handle the actual gun I'm buying and get it local (and save eight bucks)

X-NewYawker
09-26-2008, 7:25 PM
if you buy out of state then you save on taxes for a 500 dollar rifle.

i have no prob with supporting local stores, but it is the ones that charge above msrp then asks for support that really bugs me..

I'm sorry but in LA I've seen Honda odyssey's selling for five thousand dollars over list when they were just out and desirable. I've seen Walther G-22s sold for two hundred dollars over list when they just came out.

I don't remember Rettings ever charging a premium on a desirable gun -- they usually sell at list (or if they got a good deal from the distributer, below list)

Small gun stores have always charged MORE than chain stores. They pay MORE because they can't sell as much volume. We go to the local store to create relationships, and if at some future point, they get a deal, they remember their good customers (unless they are Gretas) and give us a break.

DedEye
09-26-2008, 7:26 PM
I'm sorry but in LA I've seen Honda odyssey's selling for five thousand dollars over list when they were just out and desirable. I've seen Walther G-22s sold for two hundred dollars over list when they just came out.

I don't remember Rettings ever charging a premium on a desirable gun -- they usually sell at list (or if they got a good deal from the distributer, below list)

Small gun stores have always charged MORE than chain stores. They pay MORE because they can't sell as much volume. We go to the local store to create relationships, and if at some future point, they get a deal, they remember their good customers (unless they are Gretas) and give us a break.

:iagree: EXACTLY!

Dragon
09-26-2008, 7:56 PM
Ya . I would rather buy local ,but saving a few bucks is nice .I also like to look at the item that i am going to buy first hand.

I am now thinking of buying in Arizona on my next shooting trip ,a month or two from now .not in a big hurry to get one , so i can wait for a little while, do to the fact that I'm waiting on my Lancaster Arms AK to come in ,so i will be content for the time being.That will not last long ,though.

blackfalcon
09-26-2008, 8:26 PM
Gunrunners in Duarte has two and has them listed for $549.00.

Is it proper to haggle gun prices at stores as you would an Odyssey at a car dealer?

daerror12
09-26-2008, 8:42 PM
I am picking my GSG up at rettings on Saturday. They also have extra 10 rd mags and scope mounts.

hkuspc40
09-26-2008, 8:55 PM
I can't stand business's that charge over MSRP, or even at MSRP while most out of state FFLs sell for less. The best reason I can think of is maybe the cost of leasing a storefront in CA is higher than those out-of-state since land is somewhat a premium out here in S CA. But then again, its not like the business's are in Beverly Hills, Palos Verdes, or other premium locations. For the GSG, I'll buy locally from a retailer at MSRP since like most already stated, the difference in savings from purchasing from an out-of-state FFL is not significant (> $80, yes that's my threshold).

DedEye
09-26-2008, 9:03 PM
I can't stand business's that charge over MSRP, or even at MSRP while most out of state FFLs sell for less. The best reason I can think of is maybe the cost of leasing a storefront in CA is higher than those out-of-state since land is somewhat a premium out here in S CA. But then again, its not like the business's are in Beverly Hills, Palos Verdes, or other premium locations. For the GSG, I'll buy locally from a retailer at MSRP since like most already stated, the difference in savings from purchasing from an out-of-state FFL is not significant (> $80, yes that's my threshold).

Buddy, you should really spend some time working in a gun shop. Just half a day behind the counter will help you understand why prices are sometimes so much higher than out of state dealers.

Excluding the massive warehouse style FFLs that ship huge volumes of guns around the country through Gunbroker and other sites, a simple apples to apples comparison to brick and mortar shops in other states doesn't take into account the sheer amount of paperwork that CA FFLs have to deal with compared to other states.

Trust me, the extra cost isn't extra profit.

jandmtv
09-26-2008, 9:38 PM
Oak Tree Gun Club in Newhall has a new GSG5, with 3 10 round mags for $540 plus tax and DROS!

I was there last week and it was on the counter.

apbrian112
09-26-2008, 9:44 PM
Oak Tree Gun Club in Newhall has a new GSG5, with 3 10 round mags for $540 plus tax and DROS!

I was there last week and it was on the counter.

dang, that's a good price considering extra mags cost $35-45 a piece.

X-NewYawker
09-26-2008, 10:00 PM
dang, that's a good price considering extra mags cost $35-45 a piece.

How many did they have?

gn3hz3ku1*
09-27-2008, 1:25 AM
Buddy, you should really spend some time working in a gun shop. Just half a day behind the counter will help you understand why prices are sometimes so much higher than out of state dealers.

Excluding the massive warehouse style FFLs that ship huge volumes of guns around the country through Gunbroker and other sites, a simple apples to apples comparison to brick and mortar shops in other states doesn't take into account the sheer amount of paperwork that CA FFLs have to deal with compared to other states.

Trust me, the extra cost isn't extra profit.

then how come some shops in CA just charge MSRP? and these shops arent exactly"large"

DedEye
09-27-2008, 2:12 AM
then how come some shops in CA just charge MSRP? and these shops arent exactly"large"

Every business is different. Some have a lower overhead, or they've got a higher volume, you name it.

It's not just the shops either. Some of the guns in the store may go for MSRP (or even below) while others go for much more. Supply and demand.

jandmtv
09-27-2008, 9:25 AM
How many did they have?

Just that one I think.

Shane916
09-27-2008, 9:33 AM
No one in California has them for $500. They're selling like CRAZY and above retail.


RCGE in Sac has them for $500 :)

jksupplyco
09-27-2008, 10:17 AM
Every business is different. Some have a lower overhead, or they've got a higher volume, you name it.

It's not just the shops either. Some of the guns in the store may go for MSRP (or even below) while others go for much more. Supply and demand.

And it really depands on where a shop gets them.. If you can get them Factory direct, you can usually keep the prices low. If you deal with Distributors as middle men, they take their cut, then you mark up the product to get your profit. If you have to deal with other Dealers, then the factory, distributor, and dealer have all taken their cut before it gets to your shop. Factor in shipping costs, and you've blown your profit. Thats just the way it is sometimes. Online retailers often buy in volume that small shops cant. They also deal in volume, so making $20 or $30 dollars on each of 100 weapons adds up quickly. I do what I can to keep my prices low, but on some stuff, with my buying power, it just can't be done, without taking a hit. I wont be around long if I do that..

BroncoBob
09-27-2008, 11:38 AM
[QUOTE=jksupplyco;1564923]And it really depands on where a shop gets them.. If you can get them Factory direct, you can usually keep the prices low. If you deal with Distributors as middle men, they take their cut, then you mark up the product to get your profit. If you have to deal with other Dealers, then the factory, distributor, and dealer have all taken their cut before it gets to your shop. Factor in shipping costs, and you've blown your profit. Thats just the way it is sometimes. Online retailers often buy in volume that small shops cant. They also deal in volume, so making $20 or $30 dollars on each of 100 weapons adds up quickly. I do what I can to keep my prices low, but on some stuff, with my buying power, it just can't be done, without taking a hit. I wont be around long if I do that..[/QUOTE

I agree with Ryan, you have to make a profit to keep in business. Understanding that sometimes prices are higher depending where you can obtain what you are shopping for. With that understanding this allows for points of distribution which benifits all. Not all have the buying power of Wally World. Just my 2 cents.

Saigon1965
09-27-2008, 11:46 AM
It's simple economics - A shop say in central CA, has lower rent, lower labor cost - A shop in say San Jose, higher rent, labor is thru the roof if you can find them.

This question comes up all the time - If you don't want to support your local shop fine - Save 25-50 dollars by buying elsewhere, and please don't say crap like where have all the shops gone.

Dragon
09-27-2008, 1:40 PM
In todays economy saving money is a big concern for many people.It determines weather your going to buy a toy ,or a part for your toy ,or you don't get to buy a toy at all.

X-NewYawker
09-27-2008, 1:45 PM
Point again is, IF you can get it for the same price -- or real close -- you should get it from a local store because if they go out of business, some day in the future you'll need a box of ammo or can of Breakfree and the store won't be there.

If the price is out of line, I ask for the store manager. If he understands he will lose the sale, sometimes he will make a deal -- thrown in the dros fee, some ammo, a bag, whatever -- because he knows that keeping you at the store is more important.

If he says (ala Greta's) "That's what it costs, Go somewhere else."

Then go somewhere else.

I will just remind EVERYONE here that the MARGIN -- the profit in some of these guns to a local store -- is way smaller than you'd think. They don't make 400 bucks on a $1000 gun. Sometimes more like 50 bucks.

Dragon
09-27-2008, 2:18 PM
Point again is, IF you can get it for the same price -- or real close -- you should get it from a local store because if they go out of business, some day in the future you'll need a box of ammo or can of Breakfree and the store won't be there.

If the price is out of line, I ask for the store manager. If he understands he will lose the sale, sometimes he will make a deal -- thrown in the dros fee, some ammo, a bag, whatever -- because he knows that keeping you at the store is more important.

If he says (ala Greta's) "That's what it costs, Go somewhere else."

Then go somewhere else.

I will just remind EVERYONE here that the MARGIN -- the profit in some of these guns to a local store -- is way smaller than you'd think. They don't make 400 bucks on a $1000 gun. Sometimes more like 50 bucks.





Sometimes talking to the manager does help , because most really don't want to lose a sale, so they may work with you. The average markup is usaully 20% ,but in firearms I'm not sure.

gn3hz3ku1*
09-27-2008, 4:18 PM
Point again is, IF you can get it for the same price -- or real close -- you should get it from a local store because if they go out of business, some day in the future you'll need a box of ammo or can of Breakfree and the store won't be there.

If the price is out of line, I ask for the store manager. If he understands he will lose the sale, sometimes he will make a deal -- thrown in the dros fee, some ammo, a bag, whatever -- because he knows that keeping you at the store is more important.

If he says (ala Greta's) "That's what it costs, Go somewhere else."

Then go somewhere else.

I will just remind EVERYONE here that the MARGIN -- the profit in some of these guns to a local store -- is way smaller than you'd think. They don't make 400 bucks on a $1000 gun. Sometimes more like 50 bucks.
i agree if it is close go local.. its the ones that ask for lots above msrp that really bug me...

DedEye
09-27-2008, 5:39 PM
i agree if it is close go local.. its the ones that ask for lots above msrp that really bug me...

Read what I've posted twice now, and what others have repeated as well.

gn3hz3ku1*
09-27-2008, 6:48 PM
Read what I've posted twice now, and what others have repeated as well.

i have read it.. i cant help it if it bugs me... trust me i spent more than enough on local stores...

pottymouth310
09-27-2008, 8:56 PM
Point again is, IF you can get it for the same price -- or real close -- you should get it from a local store because if they go out of business, some day in the future you'll need a box of ammo or can of Breakfree and the store won't be there.

If the price is out of line, I ask for the store manager. If he understands he will lose the sale, sometimes he will make a deal -- thrown in the dros fee, some ammo, a bag, whatever -- because he knows that keeping you at the store is more important.

If he says (ala Greta's) "That's what it costs, Go somewhere else."

Then go somewhere else.

I will just remind EVERYONE here that the MARGIN -- the profit in some of these guns to a local store -- is way smaller than you'd think. They don't make 400 bucks on a $1000 gun. Sometimes more like 50 bucks.

Hey X-NewYawker!!!!
Taran Butler told me to call you "Monster Man".....;)

DedEye
09-27-2008, 10:00 PM
i have read it.. i cant help it if it bugs me... trust me i spent more than enough on local stores...

Fair enough, just don't complain when the FFLs and gun shops with knowledgeable and friendly sales staff go out of business :(.

X-NewYawker
09-27-2008, 10:23 PM
Hey X-NewYawker!!!!
Taran Butler told me to call you "Monster Man".....;)

As long as you call him "Bumble Bee"

before the guy who makes MMG complains -- me in my youth:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/ZombieJOhn1.jpg

and back to the thread topic -- stores don't sell over MSRP because they WANT to -- sometimes they have to pay MORE than dealer price to get a desirable gun -- because they want to have one in stock -- and as a million guys here have posted, the "savings" of going through internet dealers is sometimes non-existent. Randall KILLED on his DBm M700 -- that's great -- but MOST of the time after gunbroker and shipping and transfer fee and sometimes tax (and don't forget opening the box and finding a nice scratch that was on the side of the gun they didn't show a photo of -- I'd rather use my personality and charm to get the best deal I can locally.

Sometimes turners runs an ad with a killer price on a gun I know Rettings has for slightly more. Turners salesmen are mostly tools, so I go to Rettings and see if they can come close.

I GIVE THEM THE CHANCE TO MATCH IT.
Sometimes they can. Sometimes they say, "turners got a great deal from their distrib -- get it there."

Imagine you run a store. Some TOOL walks in and tells you he just bought a gun on the internet that the store stocks -- and he wants you to do the paperwork (and that's MORE than DROS there's time involved, unpacking the gun, logging it in -- being legally responsible for your gun til you pick it up, etc.,) and you have to eat it because the guy didn't do a little research first. I remember a post here once where a guy was doing his with a $150 gun -- how much could he have saved to make it worth pissing off his store?

I'll tell you one of my little secrets -- I transfer a LOT of guns, for my articles. My local gunstores spend a LOT of time on guns that they transfer for me that they makes dollar zip of profit on. So every two months I go in and buy a gun off their shelves at full price -- and immediately sell it at a loss to a calguns member.
Why?

because I NEED that store to stay in business.

When I moved to LA 29 years ago there was Pony Express, B&B sales, two gunstores (red star and another) across the street from Rettings, That old guy in Santa MOnica off broadway, Art Bright selling Perazzis over a tile store on Wilshire, Pachmayr's in Pasadena and dozens of PRIVATE FFLs held by my friends.

THEY IS ALL GONE.

When they are ALL gone what the gun laws are here will be moot. There won';t BE a place to get your OLL shipped to. The State is trying to crush the stores with tons of regulations, threats, new hoops to jump through, and guys on this site will actually SAY: "If they don't sell OLL screw 'em. If they won't do my transfer cheap, screw em."
That's your perogative, just these numbers are dwindling. If I had a wad of cash, I wouldn't invest in a new gun store in California.

I think a good analogy is what the inner city folks did to the Korean owned convenience stores in the LA Riots -- they burned them down -- because they resented that the stores charged so much for stuff -- completely lacking any understanding that these stores were paying a premium for insurance, and high % loans, because no one else WANTED To build a store there.

We "burn down" our local gunstores and we'll be shiite out of luck.


Oh Kings Gunworks just went out of business too.

gn3hz3ku1*
09-28-2008, 2:10 AM
i agree its okay to pay a bit more sometimes for great service... thats why i drive wayyyy out of my way to go do ades and bright spot, and trust me i have a vehicle that gets 15 mpg and its more than 100 mile round trip for me... i am just complaining about those stores that give crap service, tell me im a felon and still try to charge me an arm and a leg...

i dont want to mention any names...

X-NewYawker
09-28-2008, 9:59 AM
i agree its okay to pay a bit more sometimes for great service... thats why i drive wayyyy out of my way to go do ades and bright spot, and trust me i have a vehicle that gets 15 mpg and its more than 100 mile round trip for me... i am just complaining about those stores that give crap service, tell me im a felon and still try to charge me an arm and a leg...

i dont want to mention any names...

THOSE stores you just don't go to. We were all trying to explain the good guys that sometimes seem to have bad prices. But accusing you of being a felon trumps t he price. Stay away.

fusionstar
10-10-2008, 1:44 AM
I picked mine up yesterday from River City Guns for $500 + tax + $25 DROS.

I saw one hanging on the wall but was too busy getting ammo and forgot to check it out. Do you still think its $500? Its very popular.

mike22ca
10-10-2008, 12:22 PM
I saw one hanging on the wall but was too busy getting ammo and forgot to check it out. Do you still think its $500? Its very popular.

I just called RCGE and they quoted $550.00... they said the price went up doing to importation fees.

Saigon1965
10-10-2008, 12:35 PM
Dollars are worth less too -

I just called RCGE and they quoted $550.00... they said the price went up doing to importation fees.

GW
10-20-2008, 11:48 PM
I got mine at Sportsmens Supply in Campbell
$499.99 plus tax & DROS
Taking it out Saturday:D

Cyclepath
10-21-2008, 1:01 AM
I got mine in City Arms in Pacifica. $489 plus DROS and tax about a couple of weeks ago. They had a few when I was there.

Went to another store in the Bay Area. They had it for almost $250 more. Guy asked me what I was willing to pay and I asked I said dont these retail for $500? He said good luck. Well, some stores just charge more as this was the 2nd sale they lost from me. First was a Kimber that was $200 more for the same model.

DedEye
10-21-2008, 7:34 AM
I got mine in City Arms in Pacifica. $489 plus DROS and tax about a couple of weeks ago. They had a few when I was there.

Went to another store in the Bay Area. They had it for almost $250 more. Guy asked me what I was willing to pay and I asked I said dont these retail for $500? He said good luck. Well, some stores just charge more as this was the 2nd sale they lost from me. First was a Kimber that was $200 more for the same model.

Mind if I ask what store? PM me if need be.