PDA

View Full Version : 9mm AR


tyrist
09-26-2008, 11:47 AM
Since I cannot have an MP5 I want to make one of my lowers a pistol caliber carbine. Who makes the high grade 9mm uppers. The magazine issue is irrelevant since I can buy whatever mags I want.

savasyn
09-26-2008, 12:19 PM
Read through this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=122470&) as it lists a number of the various 9mm uppers.

I have the RRA one and am very happy with it. I use the Hytech magblock with UZI mags.

technique
09-26-2008, 12:40 PM
Read through this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=122470&) as it lists a number of the various 9mm uppers.

I have the RRA one and am very happy with it. I use the Hytech magblock with UZI mags.

+100 kit for UZI mags!!!!!!

CHS
09-26-2008, 2:27 PM
Since I cannot have an MP5 I want to make one of my lowers a pistol caliber carbine. Who makes the high grade 9mm uppers. The magazine issue is irrelevant since I can buy whatever mags I want.

The overwhelming consensus on 9mm conversions is to go with Colt style, which you can't get from Colt anymore, so buy RRA which is a Colt clone and very high quality.

Obviously, you can use any AR lower but make sure you get the proper buffer/tube/spring.

DPMS lower parts kits are fully 9mm BCG-compatible, so you can save some money if you get that parts kit for your lower initially, rather than buying another LPK and then buying the proper hammer seperate. If you already have an assembled lower, then you'll want to make sure you have or purchase the proper hammer.

Then just get yourself a mag block for whatever style mags you want to go with, and blast away cheaply!

grammaton76
09-26-2008, 4:38 PM
DPMS lower parts kits are fully 9mm BCG-compatible, so you can save some money if you get that parts kit for your lower initially, rather than buying another LPK and then buying the proper hammer seperate. If you already have an assembled lower, then you'll want to make sure you have or purchase the proper hammer.

Interesting. The DPMS 223 hammer/etc will work fine with the RRA kit?

THE 0NE
09-26-2008, 4:40 PM
build one they are fun!!!

savasyn
09-26-2008, 5:16 PM
From my experience, now that I have one that is safely functioning, the newish CMMG 2 stage works with the RRA 9mm upper just fine, too.

CWatson
09-26-2008, 6:39 PM
Interesting. The DPMS 223 hammer/etc will work fine with the RRA kit?


I went with the ramped bolt from ADCO for my 9mm build. That way I can use the upper on any of my 223 lowers without having to worry about the hammer. My understanding is it will work with any 223 hammer but NOT a dedicated 9mm hammer.


CW

apbrian112
09-26-2008, 6:40 PM
Interesting. The DPMS 223 hammer/etc will work fine with the RRA kit?

here you go... http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=108261

it'll work and you don't have to ramp your bolt... it may or may not lead to trigger slap but it will not lock your bolt up. it will allow you to swap out uppers *9mm to 223/5.56 without the trouble of swapping out different hammers and without having to ramp your 9mm bolt.

tyrist
09-26-2008, 7:49 PM
I already have 2 lowers with RRA parts kits installed and the ability to switch between uppers is a definate plus. So if I get the RRA 9mm upper I can use it with a single/two stage hammer?

If I have to buy a seperate hammer I will but flexibility is always a plus. Although I don't know how many 5.56 rifles I need.

What is so great about UZI mags?

technique
09-26-2008, 7:51 PM
I already have 2 lowers with RRA parts kits installed and the ability to switch between uppers is a definate plus. So if I get the RRA 9mm upper I can use it with a single/two stage hammer?

If I have to buy a seperate hammer I will but flexibility is always a plus. Although I don't know how many 5.56 rifles I need.

What is so great about UZI mags?

Thats what the ramped 9mm bolt is for, so you don't have to worry about changing out the hammer.:)

tyrist
09-26-2008, 7:54 PM
So a rock river 9mm upper with a ramped bolt and I can use it on both my lowers?

What magazines does it use?

technique
09-26-2008, 7:55 PM
You pick a mag block that in most cases, excepts Uzi mags

technique
09-26-2008, 7:57 PM
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/9mm001.jpg

Kits look like this

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/9mm002.jpg

Ramped bolt looks like this.

technique
09-26-2008, 7:59 PM
end up like this:43:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/Picture113.jpg

Riodog
09-26-2008, 8:07 PM
So a rock river 9mm upper with a ramped bolt and I can use it on both my lowers?

What magazines does it use?

Tyrist, there's nothing so great about Uzi mags. At one time they were the cheapest, easiest alternative to Colt mags. Since you don't have a problem getting Colt high caps just go with the Colts. I use genuine Colt mags in my "oll's" and my Colt receivers.
Rio

tyrist
09-26-2008, 8:13 PM
So to run colt hi cap magazines I need a RRA upper and what?

jamesob
09-26-2008, 9:01 PM
whats wrong with a mp5 clone?

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 9:20 PM
So to run colt hi cap magazines I need a RRA upper and what?

Mag block.
9mm buffer if this is going on a carbine stocked lower.
My 9mm buffer spacer if you plan to run mags that activate a bolt catch.

The bolt will have to be sent out to be ramped unless you get an un-notched hammer.

savasyn
09-26-2008, 9:24 PM
whats wrong with a mp5 clone?

Nothing wrong with an MP5-clone, it's simply economics. Clones are much harder to find these days. Many people have ARs already built and it costs less an half one of the MP5-clones to buy a new AR upper and all the parts required to make it work. You get to stick with a manual of arms that you are already familiar with and you can switch back to .223 whenever you want.

Btw, I would LOVE to have one of the Vector MP5s, I'm just not willing to pay for it.

apbrian112
09-26-2008, 9:31 PM
So a rock river 9mm upper with a ramped bolt and I can use it on both my lowers?

What magazines does it use?

you can use the c-products mags, they have 10 rounders available. or if you have preban uzi or colt mags, use those.

tyrist
09-26-2008, 9:37 PM
you can use the c-products mags, they have 10 rounders available. or if you have preban uzi or colt mags, use those.

I can legally get whatever mags I want of any capacity.

tyrist
09-26-2008, 9:38 PM
Mag block.
9mm buffer if this is going on a carbine stocked lower.
My 9mm buffer spacer if you plan to run mags that activate a bolt catch.

The bolt will have to be sent out to be ramped unless you get an un-notched hammer.

Well I wanted to use it with a fixed A2 stock and a monster man grip.

apbrian112
09-26-2008, 9:41 PM
I can legally get whatever mags I want of any capacity.

well crap... in that case, here you go: http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CP9

brand new c products 32 rounders for $17. you can't beat that!!

apbrian112
09-26-2008, 9:42 PM
Well I wanted to use it with a fixed A2 stock and a monster man grip.

well then there's no need for a 9mm buffer... you should be good to go!

REDHORSE
09-26-2008, 9:50 PM
I have the RRA one and am very happy with it. I use the Hytech magblock with UZI mags.

Same setup as I. I have an RRA upper using the VM Hy-Tech UZI mag adapter. Perfect solutions for my scenario (I have plenty of hi-cap UZI mags for my reg AW UZI). Super reliable & fun shooting carbine.

I also have the RRA 9mm & DPMS 5.56 hammers on a couple of my AR15 lowers. So, I can freely swap out the 9mm upper on different lowers.

DPMS hammer will work with any 5.56 bolt carrier & the 9mm bolt.

The RRA 9mm hammer will work with the standard 9mm bolt (un-ramped!). The RRA 9mm hammer will work with SOME 5.56 bolt carriers. The 5.56 bolt carrier needs to have a shrouded firing pin for the 9mm hammer to NOT jam up.

If you have a 5.56 bolt carrier with an exposed firing pin, DO NOT use a RRA 9mm hammer with it OR you will seriously jam up your rifle. You will not be able to separate the uppers to clear the jam. You will have to completely remove the stock assembly to clear up the jam through the stock oriface of the lower receiver.

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 9:51 PM
Well I wanted to use it with a fixed A2 stock and a monster man grip.

Good choice.
The bolt still over-runs the bolt catch though.
If your mag block and mags activate the bolt catch, get my 9mm spacer.
Also consider adding weight to the A2 buffer.
There's room for two more steel weights if you remove the aluminum spacer.

tyrist
09-26-2008, 9:59 PM
Give me a shopping list guys.

So far I need a 9mm RRA upper
a ramped bolt carrier (which I cannot buy but must have made)
A magazine block which works with colt style magazines (C Products work too?)
Replace my RRA 2 stage trigger/hammer with a single stage
Add weight to my rifle buffer?

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 10:26 PM
Give me a shopping list guys.

So far I need a 9mm RRA upper
a ramped bolt carrier (which I cannot buy but must have made)
A magazine block which works with colt style magazines (C Products work too?)
Replace my RRA 2 stage trigger/hammer with a single stage
Add weight to my rifle buffer?

C products mags are a direct interchange for colt mags.
If the bolt is ramped, you can keep your two stage trigger.
If you don't get the bolt ramped, you would need a single stage trigger with an un-notched hammer.

tyrist
09-26-2008, 10:35 PM
where do you get a bolt ramped?

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 10:39 PM
where do you get a bolt ramped?

Eventually, at my shop... :D

tyrist
09-26-2008, 10:41 PM
not equipped for it yet?

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 10:45 PM
not equipped for it yet?

Fully equipped.
Just been putting off making a little fixture to make the setup more easily repeatable.

CWatson
09-26-2008, 10:48 PM
Give me a shopping list guys.

So far I need a 9mm RRA upper
a ramped bolt carrier (which I cannot buy but must have made)I went A2 stock and MM grip also. I bought my RRA 9mm mid length A4 upper and had the bolt ramped by the dealer before it was shipped to me, $461 ramped and shipped from ADCO.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/rra_pricelist.cfm?auth_code=12206038
Just today I just mounted the rear sights bought from another calgunner.
A magazine block which works with colt style magazines (C Products work too?)
Replace my RRA 2 stage trigger/hammer with a single stage
Add weight to my rifle buffer? Right now Cproducts is running a special, mag block and five mags for $180. CProduct blocks are their own and new on the market, only been out a couple days. If you use a RRA block CProducts recommends you lower the block some to work reliably with their mags.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh217/CWatsonjr_90041/FILE0016.jpg

You will also need a ambi safety.
Since you are going with the MM grip and detachable mags you have to remove the flash hider, I put on a thread protector.


CW

tyrist
09-26-2008, 10:55 PM
Fully equipped.
Just been putting off making a little fixture to make the setup more easily repeatable.

Do you have everything to put one together?

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 10:57 PM
Do you have everything to put one together?

Probably.
I don't carry the mag adapters or mags though.

tyrist
09-26-2008, 11:47 PM
Is the 9mm rock river arms rifle a listed rifle?

ar15barrels
09-27-2008, 12:02 AM
Is the 9mm rock river arms rifle a listed rifle?

No.

Bowser
09-27-2008, 1:25 AM
build one they are fun!!!

I got dibs on your magwell conversion and magazine. Should be able to get them next week. If your stock has a milspec tube, I'll take that too if you're willing to part with it.

Riodog
09-28-2008, 3:38 PM
Tyrist, or ar15barrels, I have a set of genuine Colt mag blocks if you wanna go that route. Be advised that they should be installed by a pro-gunsmith as they are pinned in place and to drill the holes in the correct location is critical. If you want them, give me a pm and I'll drop them in the mail.
Rio

redcliff
09-28-2008, 7:18 PM
I used Adco for my bolt ramping.. 1 week turnaround. $45 plus shipping.

http://www.adcofirearms.com/shoppingcartmap.cfm?orderno=8836185

yallknowho
09-28-2008, 7:53 PM
a timney single stage trigger would work in a 9mm application, right?
.
http://mooneysfirearms.com/ProductImages/pof/Timney.jpg

shark92651
09-28-2008, 9:52 PM
We have the RRA 9mm uppers and other parts in stock now.

http://riflegear.com/c-52-9mm-uppers.aspx

savasyn
09-28-2008, 11:47 PM
Do those RRA mag blocks use the normal mag release to hold the magazine in? In other words, will you still get a "fixed" mag with a bullet button? The Hy-Tech block I use does not.

ar15barrels
09-28-2008, 11:49 PM
Do those RRA mag blocks use the normal mag release to hold the magazine in?

Yes.

tyrist
09-30-2008, 11:31 PM
Well I ordered all the parts and put together a 9mm ar. I cycled it with snap caps and as long as I did it firmly there were no problems with ejecting or feeding. Just incase you care to look this is what I now have. I bought a couple of 9mm colt ar 15 magazines (very expensive) and used the rock river arms magazine block.

13688

I am now done for a good long time I think.....can't imagine what else I would need. Also I have a spikes fake can pending delivery for the 9mm rifle.

Bowser
09-30-2008, 11:32 PM
Did you block the mags yourself? If you ordered 10/32 mags tell me where!

tyrist
09-30-2008, 11:38 PM
The magazines are brand new colt 32 round 9mm magazines.

ar15barrels
09-30-2008, 11:41 PM
Did you block the mags yourself? If you ordered 10/32 mags tell me where!

He's law enforcement and therefore exempt of the silly magazine capacity law.

I'm pretty sure the reason that LEO is exempt is because they need to fire more rounds to hit their target. ;)

tyrist
09-30-2008, 11:54 PM
He's law enforcement and therefore exempt of the silly magazine capacity law.

I'm pretty sure the reason that LEO is exempt is because they need to fire more rounds to hit their target. ;)

Perhaps next time I go to the range I will post a photo here....believe it or not some of us are expert shots. I wonder If the DOJ would let me get an AW permit so I could unneuter my rifles.

ar15barrels
09-30-2008, 11:59 PM
believe it or not some of us are expert shots.

I believe it.
I shoot with a few that are master class competitors.
That's not the norm though.

tyrist
10-01-2008, 12:04 AM
It is not the norm my partner is plain awful no matter how much I try to instruct her. She just cannot stop her bad habit of looking at the target instead of the front sight.

I ended up installing the 9mm hammer....and it actually improved the feel of the RRA single stage trigger.

sigsauer887
10-01-2008, 12:08 AM
Perhaps next time I go to the range I will post a photo here....believe it or not some of us are expert shots. I wonder If the DOJ would let me get an AW permit so I could unneuter my rifles.

Which agency are you with? If your with SPD, you would be off to a good start lol/

CWatson
10-01-2008, 7:31 AM
Well I ordered all the parts and put together a 9mm ar. I cycled it with snap caps and as long as I did it firmly there were no problems with ejecting or feeding. Just incase you care to look this is what I now have. I bought a couple of 9mm colt ar 15 magazines (very expensive) and used the rock river arms magazine block.

Since you are LE and can buy standard capacity mags check this thread.[http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=396752]
It appears Metalform was the previous maker of Colt mags, CProducts makes them now. You can buy the Metalforms at $33 from the manufacturer.

CW

tyrist
10-01-2008, 8:51 AM
Well after doing a few more test on the 9mm rifle I have found a few problems. A couple of times the magazine became slightly unseated and failed to feed after a few rounds. This of course is easy enough to solve simple by tapping the bottom of the magazine and racking it but I don't understand why this is happening.

Second I had a couple of instances where it would eject two rounds simultaneously....I have never seen this malfunction. The round in the camber would eject and so would the first one in the magazine.

Last it seems to jam on the very last round in the magazine occasionally.


any ideas for solutions?

tommyid1
12-25-2008, 11:08 AM
not to dig this one up but jsut trying to figure something out. tyrist did you ever fix your problem. and also what mag well block and mags work with the bolt hold open.

tyrist
02-26-2009, 9:56 PM
not to dig this one up but jsut trying to figure something out. tyrist did you ever fix your problem. and also what mag well block and mags work with the bolt hold open.

Yes I fixed it...the mag block while working was slightly out of alignment and was not tight enough inside the well. It works 100% now.

Seesm
02-26-2009, 11:32 PM
So the dpms lower parts kit will allow a easy switch from .223/5.56 back to 9mm easy?

tyrist
02-28-2009, 1:37 AM
So the dpms lower parts kit will allow a easy switch from .223/5.56 back to 9mm easy?

Apparently since it's hammer does not have the notch. I got a 9mm hammer though since I had the RRA kit

vf111
03-01-2009, 2:46 AM
Apparently since it's hammer does not have the notch. I got a 9mm hammer though since I had the RRA kit


BTW, I'm going the A2 stock/ MMG grip route as well for my 9mm AR build. What did you use for a buffer, spring and did you use the spacer block inside the tube? I already have the RRA 9mm buffer and am thinking I can use a standard A2 spring and skip the spacer block. TIA.

ar15barrels
03-01-2009, 8:41 AM
BTW, I'm going the A2 stock/ MMG grip route as well for my 9mm AR build. What did you use for a buffer, spring and did you use the spacer block inside the tube? I already have the RRA 9mm buffer and am thinking I can use a standard A2 spring and skip the spacer block. TIA.

Use a standard A2 buffer/spring if you have the option.

http://ar15barrels.com/tech/buffer-construction.jpg

Note how similar the reciprocal weights are between 9mm and A2.
You can make a heavier A2 buffer by taking it apart, removing the aluminum spacer and installing 2 more steel weights and another rubber washer.

tyrist
03-01-2009, 11:05 AM
I agree with ar15 barrels as far as using the normal a2 buffer and spring.