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View Full Version : Recommendations for custom stock work


edward
09-26-2008, 12:47 AM
So I have a couple of Mosin Nagants, and for some time I've been wanting to modify the oldest one in my collection; an M38 with a beat up stock but a good barrel/action.

I don't want to just refinish the wood stock, and I don't want to just get it one of the $60 ATI Monte Carlo synthetics from cheaperthandirt.
My idea is slightly more novel (and slightly more plagiarized, from Metal Gear Solid).
I want to have a pistol gripped Mosin stock modeled after the MacMillan M2A

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/eds280/M2Asyntheticstock.jpg

So now I'm looking for custom stock makers (of which there are alot... who work almost entirely with wood) that work with fiberglass/synthetic stocks. I've come across MSI and Brown's precision, who both look good but charge $500+ just to get one of their basic blanks for a standard action like the R700.
I shutter to think what they would charge for a custom job for an unfamiliar action like a Mosin Nagant.

I know it won't be cheap; I'm guessing it will cost at the very least $500, but as far as maximum price I can't justify more than about $700-$750. I'm hoping someone here knows someone who does, or do themselves, work on synthetic stocks and can make a good quality M2A style stock for an M38 Mosin Action.

Suggestions are welcome, thanks.

Clydedog
09-26-2008, 5:43 AM
....I am in the same boat as you are. I've got an old 91/30 and the ATI stock just doesn't do it for me. My pockets aren't deep enough for a custom stock done with just a blast to the plastic card, so I've decided to try something different myself. What I've done is ordered a beat up old used Mosin stock (so I can save the original in case the project goes south on me or just doesn't turn out well) and have gotten ready to modify it into an SVD/PSL/Dragonuv style stock. It will be pieced/glued/fiberglassed/bondo'ed together, overlayed in fiberglass and painted a desert digital camo color scheme. The stock was found on-line and ran about $25.00 with shipping. As a rough guide to what I'm planning to try, check the bottom link from rimfirecentral.com. This looks like it can be done with a decent assortment of hand tools I've already got laying around in my garage, and if it doesn't pan out, I'll have under $50.00 or so tied up in the project....:D

www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238931

Flat Broke
09-26-2008, 8:50 AM
If you're going to cut one up and laminate new wood on it, you have a decision to make. Will the structural integrity come from fiberglass, or from the wood itself? If it's from fiberglass and you know what your doing with glasswork, make the "core" of your pattern by adding sheets/blocks of balsa. It will allow you to shape the thing much easier and cut down on weight which you will quickly add back on with enough fiberglass to make the thing strong enough to handle the recoil. You'll have to determine your total lamination thickness before so you can subtract it from the final dimension of your wood core.

Alternatively you could go solid wood and spray with any number of coatings that would create the appearance, feeling, and orther structural attributes of a composite stock. If you go this route, don't use poplar like what is shown in the link above. The stuff dents too easily and isn't stable enough for work like this. The only workaround if you want to use cheap wood would be to laminate 1/8" stock like you see in most of the popular laminate gun stocks. Here the epoxy between each layer helps to stablize less dense woods.

For the $700 budget, I'd look into using the old stock idea, to maintain the inleting for the action and barrel, and then build the rest of it from clay. Then have someone model this and you can send the file to any number of CNC houses. You could get the part cut for under budget, but the trick would be getting your plug modeled at a decent price. Maybe check with your local community college and see if they have a CAD/CAM class where you could pay a student (not through the school obviously) to take on your project for his class project.

You might try talking to the guy who was doing the BWO riffle as I beleive he designed a CAD file for an AR10 receiver. He might be able to point you in the direction of resources to get a clay model turned into a file that can be sent out to a CNC prototyping house.

Chris

edward
09-26-2008, 12:41 PM
Interesting, I was thinking about making a mock up but didn't want to be too invested into something that just illustrates what I really want.

Basically I got the idea by taping an AK style pistol grip behind the trigger guard of my M38, holding it and thinking "hmm, this feels pretty good, I imagine if done correctly, it would feel much better".

I'm thinking I could get an old M38 stock, inlet the bottom of it behind the trigger guard to make it flat, then epoxy in a $5 AK style grip.
As far as the more advanced stuff thats where my expertise ends.

For the $700 budget, I'd look into using the old stock idea, to maintain the inleting for the action and barrel, and then build the rest of it from clay. Then have someone model this and you can send the file to any number of CNC houses. You could get the part cut for under budget, but the trick would be getting your plug modeled at a decent price. Maybe check with your local community college and see if they have a CAD/CAM class where you could pay a student (not through the school obviously) to take on your project for his class project.

You might try talking to the guy who was doing the BWO riffle as I beleive he designed a CAD file for an AR10 receiver. He might be able to point you in the direction of resources to get a clay model turned into a file that can be sent out to a CNC prototyping house.

I could give that a try. Is there a particular kind of clay I should use for the model? Obviously something that sets and dries by itself, I don't have access to a kiln or anything to help cure it.

Flat Broke
09-26-2008, 9:50 PM
For your clay, it depends on how much time you have to work, and how durable you want it afterwards. Most of the clay concept car sculptures etc. that you see are made from industrial styling clay. This stuff never fully cures and is avaialbe in different firmnesses. For a more permanent piece to take measurements off of, you could use something as simple as mexican pottery clay, or most air-dry hobby clays will work. Some of them can be air/kiln dry, so you could fire it if needed.

If you like the idea of clay, but can't figgure out how to get from clay to digital to a finsihed product; fiberglass molds could also be used. You'd have to research what materials you could pour into the mold to give you the desired structural integrity, but making fiberglass molds is pretty straight forward if you have a well made/finished plug (your clay part). Your investment can vary once you start trying to produce a part from your plug, but just modeling the plug out of clay, shooting it with color to fill the porisity and preping it for mold making doesn't cost much. The upside with clay is that while the clay is workable, you can epxeriment with it. If you don't like the way it's going, wet it back down, and start over/make mods.

Chris

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 9:55 PM
If all you want is a McMillan M2A, just call mcMillan and ask them if they will inlet for your action.
They MAY ask you to send them your rifle, but they can certainly do it.

Composite stocks like McMillan are made in molds that take a LOT of effort to build, but the mold does NOT account for what action will get inletted into the stock.
The mold creates a stock with NO action or barrel channel.
The channel gets cut after the stock is all molded and filled with filler.
The channel can be cut for almost any action that will fit within the confines of the stock.

edward
09-26-2008, 11:28 PM
If all you want is a McMillan M2A, just call mcMillan and ask them if they will inlet for your action.
They MAY ask you to send them your rifle, but they can certainly do it.

Ya know I was going to call them today until I saw this on their website under the M2A stock option.

It must be bedded and is not legal for NRA Service Rifle Competition. For M14/M1A rifles only.

I suppose I could give them a call anyway and see what can be done. Macmillan does appear to be a bit cheaper than most of the other mfg's and I really like the M2A.

For your clay, it depends on how much time you have to work, and how durable you want it afterwards. Most of the clay concept car sculptures etc. that you see are made from industrial styling clay. This stuff never fully cures and is avaialbe in different firmnesses. For a more permanent piece to take measurements off of, you could use something as simple as mexican pottery clay, or most air-dry hobby clays will work. Some of them can be air/kiln dry, so you could fire it if needed.

Cool, I'll look around locally and see what I can find for some styling clay.

One further note, a friend of mine suggested that I would be more likely to get somewhere if I was making a large order, in order to make it worth the time of a company like ATI to take up the design in a fairly limited production run of (I would guess) several dozen or a couple hundred units.

Is there any interest in a mass produced pistol grip Mosin stock, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 11:32 PM
Is there any interest in a mass produced pistol grip Mosin stock, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Just remember it's a $70 rifle.
The main selling point is the price.

I would say you are not even in the right forest, let alone near the right tree.

edward
09-27-2008, 12:26 AM
Just remember it's a $70 rifle.
The main selling point is the price.

I would say you are not even in the right forest, let alone near the right tree.

Yeah, I felt pretty much the same about the idea. Though one qualifying factor "Mass Produced".
ATI makes some reasonably sturdy mass produced monte carlo stocks for Mosin actions and they're $60. That was the idea if there are more than a couple takers, which I doubt.
But no I would never expect anyone to pop $500 for a mass produced Mosin stock.

NeoWeird
09-27-2008, 3:02 AM
Yeah, I felt pretty much the same about the idea. Though one qualifying factor "Mass Produced".
ATI makes some reasonably sturdy mass produced monte carlo stocks for Mosin actions and they're $60. That was the idea if there are more than a couple takers, which I doubt.
But no I would never expect anyone to pop $500 for a mass produced Mosin stock.

The general rule of thumb is most people don't want to spend more on an accessory than on the gun itself; that doesn't mean they can't spend the cost of the gun on one item, and then again on another item (Ruger 10/22 are notorious for this), but no one wants to spend $400 on an STI barrel to put on their Rock Island 1911. Now you're talking about putting $500 on a $80 gun and I think you will have VERY few takers.

As for ATI's stocks, from the looks of them I'd imagine they are just injection molded over a core with all the inletting done.

Now if McMillian really does make their stocks the way described above (I have no idea to be honest) I'd imagine if you specifically asked for one mid-production but paid full price they would be willing to send you one. So you pay the full price, get the non-inletted stock, and have someone else inlet it for your stock.

Seems much easier and cheaper than having someone mold a custom one off.

kurac
09-27-2008, 4:55 AM
Go to Tap Plastics, you can be rolls of carbon fiber there and the resin to make it stick. You can then mold it over the cut down original stock or you can make a new core out of foam or balsa wood. Either way, its going to end up costing more than what the gun will ever be worth.