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View Full Version : Is my lower out of spec?


moulton
09-25-2008, 5:59 PM
I was just trying to attach my m-16a1 upper onto my new Stag lower and it wont fit. I can get one of the pins in but the other will not fit. The upper is usually on another Stag Lower which fits perfect :confused:.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/moulton/IMG_0529.jpg
Regular upper and lower = fits

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/moulton/IMG_0530.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/moulton/IMG_0531.jpg
Front pin inserted, back part of upper wont pivot back.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/moulton/IMG_0533.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/moulton/IMG_0532.jpg
Back pin inserted, front part of the upper wont pivot forward.

apbrian112
09-25-2008, 6:01 PM
dang i'm dumb... once again, i dont' pay attention to the whole post and just end up being wrong and looking/being dumb...:p

ar15barrels
09-25-2008, 6:07 PM
how far is your buffer tube screwed in?

It's an A2 buffer tube and stock... ;)

jacques
09-25-2008, 7:19 PM
It is probably OOS. But I do have a CMMG upper that will not close on a stag with the hammer uncocked unless I push the firing pin forward a little. Try making sure your hammer is cocked and see.

bohoki
09-25-2008, 7:21 PM
It's an A2 buffer tube and stock... ;)

so all the way then?

hmm ive run into a similar problem and solved it with a round file on the upper receiver rear hole just take enough till it fits

it should only be filed on the front or back of the hole not the top or bottom

sometimes "acceptable tolerances" catch up with each other

m24armorer
09-25-2008, 9:47 PM
Remove the receiver extension, install the upper with the front pin. If it lines up up it's the extension, if not it's the receiver.

DON'T file anything!

ar15barrels
09-25-2008, 10:16 PM
so all the way then?

A PROPER A2 receiver extension will not thread in far enough to cause this problem.
That's not to say that a bad one did not slip through QC.
However, if the reciever extension were that long, it would also seem to cause a problem with the buffer detent.

NeoWeird
09-25-2008, 10:53 PM
You make sure there is enough relief in the take down pin pocket? Some receivers have wider radii that mil-spec stuff and the upper binds as it comes down into these radii.

Sometimes 10 seconds with a file on the rear take down lug on the upper is all it takes.

m24armorer
09-25-2008, 11:08 PM
OMG, mess with the lower, not the upper! It's a mil spec upper, why mod it to fit a substandard lower.


There is never time to do it right but always time to do it again.

moulton
09-26-2008, 12:32 AM
OMG, mess with the lower, not the upper! It's a mil spec upper, why mod it to fit a substandard lower.


There is never time to do it right but always time to do it again.

I removed the receiver extinction, (which was not interfering at all) and tried to put the upper on. It is still the same. When the front pin is inserted then the back pin hole is off center and vise versa. This is with me pushing down on the back of the carry handle.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/moulton/IMG_4418.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/moulton/IMG_4422.jpg

m24armorer
09-26-2008, 8:11 AM
Out of spec lower, from the pics it looks like the radius on the receiver was not cut properly.

moulton
09-26-2008, 10:21 AM
Out of spec lower, from the pics it looks like the radius on the receiver was not cut properly.

So I should contact Stag Arms about this? :(

jandmtv
09-26-2008, 10:25 AM
Do you have any other uppers that mate with that lower?

moulton
09-26-2008, 10:39 AM
Do you have any other uppers that mate with that lower?

no :( I dont see how the Upper is the problem as it fits perfectly on another Stag Lower. I just sent an e-mail to Stag about this.

hybridatsun350
09-26-2008, 10:54 AM
Out of spec lower, from the pics it looks like the radius on the receiver was not cut properly.

+1 That's what I was thinking. I guess we'll see what Stag has to say.

moulton
09-26-2008, 11:05 AM
+1 That's what I was thinking. I guess we'll see what Stag has to say.

Thank you Name withheld, we will certainly fix this lower for you.

The hole may be slightly out of spec for some reason, especially if the upper fits fine on the other lower half you have.



I will email you a return label today and you can send back the lower to us to be re-manufactured with the same serial number for you.



Thank you



Sales

Stag Arms LLC

515 John Downey Drive

New Britain, CT 06051

860-229-9994

860-229-3738 fax

sales@stagarms.com
WOW, a reply in 20 minutes:eek:;).
So does this mean I will get a completely new Lower with the same S/N?

darkest2000
09-26-2008, 11:05 AM
honestly I wouldn't be surprised since this wouldn't be the first time I've seen an out of spec Stag lower.

I had a Stag lower that's got the pistol grip screw hole drilled in the wrong spot so when the grip is put on there's a noticeable gap between the grip and the trigger guard.

Seeing this I don't think I would buy another stag lower anymore, at least not sight unseen.

darkest2000
09-26-2008, 11:09 AM
WOW, a reply in 20 minutes:eek:;).
So does this mean I will get a completely new Lower with the same S/N?

I've had two colt firearms that had problems which Colt replaced, the guns came back with completly different s/n.

JPB
09-26-2008, 11:21 AM
Is there a receiver block in the lower (like Colt)? If so the FA BCG (M16A1) my be interfeering. Had the same issue when I tried to throw a Noveske upper w/ FA BCG on one of my Colt lowers. Looked exactly like what you pictured.

moulton
09-26-2008, 11:25 AM
Is there a receiver block in the lower (like Colt)? If so the FA BCG (M16A1) my be interfeering. Had the same issue when I tried to throw a Noveske upper w/ FA BCG on one of my Colt lowers. Looked exactly like what you pictured.

Receiver block? What does that look like? :confused:

CHS
09-26-2008, 11:41 AM
WOW, a reply in 20 minutes:eek:;).
So does this mean I will get a completely new Lower with the same S/N?

Exactly.

There's no point in "fixing" the lower if it's out of spec. They'll just take a brand new one off the line that's in spec, and before they do the markings, they'll reprogram the machine to do one with your serial number. Then you'll get "the same" gun back in the mail.

Otherwise, if they put a new serial number on it, they would have to send it to an FFL and it would need to be DROS'ed back to you, because it's not technically the same gun and that would be an illegal transfer.

moulton
09-26-2008, 12:05 PM
Sweet, the customer service rep said they would replace the DPMS LPK I already had installed with a Stag Arms LPK. :D

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 12:06 PM
WOW, a reply in 20 minutes:eek:;).
So does this mean I will get a completely new Lower with the same S/N?

It does not matter.
There's no registration of non-aw long guns in CA.

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 12:09 PM
There's no point in "fixing" the lower if it's out of spec. They'll just take a brand new one off the line that's in spec, and before they do the markings, they'll reprogram the machine to do one with your serial number. Then you'll get "the same" gun back in the mail.

Otherwise, if they put a new serial number on it, they would have to send it to an FFL and it would need to be DROS'ed back to you, because it's not technically the same gun and that would be an illegal transfer.

If he gets a new lower, it will have a different number.
Big manufacturer's don't like to go through the paperwork to "de-mil" and re-create the same SN.
That's two different forms that have to be submitted.
They just grab another one off the shelf.

ke6guj
09-26-2008, 12:19 PM
If he gets a new lower, it will have a different number.
Big manufacturer's don't like to go through the paperwork to "de-mil" and re-create the same SN.
That's two different forms that have to be submitted.
They just grab another one off the shelf.

read the Stag Arms email, they state that they will remanufacture a lower with the same SN.

CHS
09-26-2008, 12:19 PM
Big manufacturer's don't like to go through the paperwork to "de-mil" and re-create the same SN.


Well, that's exactly what stag said they would do. If you read their email back to him ;)

ar15barrels
09-26-2008, 12:38 PM
Well, that's exactly what stag said they would do. If you read their email back to him ;)

It's good of them to do that.
I never said they would not do it, I said they don't like to do it. ;)
Bushmaster and Olympic charge $100+ to do it, but it's worth it if you have a registered gun...

E Pluribus Unum
09-26-2008, 12:39 PM
Well, that's exactly what stag said they would do. If you read their email back to him ;)

oopsie.. :)


That is awesome. A 20 minute reply from EMAIL?? And without a fight they offer to send him a box (free of charge) to return the lower and have it replaced.

I don't expect a company to get everything right to earn my business. I expect a company to MAKE it right when there is a mistake. It looks like Stag is willing to do this and in my book, that is the earmark of a good company to do business with.

RECCE556
09-26-2008, 12:44 PM
I don't expect a company to get everything right to earn my business. I expect a company to MAKE it right when there is a mistake. It looks like Stag is willing to do this and in my book, that is the earmark of a good company to do business with.
While this is true, when a company consistenly outputs bad product, this is a sign for me to avoid them. They way I look at it, if they can't get something like this right (among many other problems I've seen with STAG), what else are they getting WRONG? Think of things that may not show up immediately or things that might subtly be off but affect some other aspect of the gun (like accuracy) where it's hard to pinpoint what's wrong...not worth it especially considering you can buy top notch, top quality AR products...

Also, read my sig... :)

moulton
09-26-2008, 12:51 PM
oopsie.. :)


That is awesome. A 20 minute reply from EMAIL?? And without a fight they offer to send him a box (free of charge) to return the lower, have it replaced and install a new LPK to replace a 3rd party one.

I don't expect a company to get everything right to earn my business. I expect a company to MAKE it right when there is a mistake. It looks like Stag is willing to do this and in my book, that is the earmark of a good company to do business with.

added that for you :D

jandmtv
09-26-2008, 12:57 PM
While this is true, when a company consistenly outputs bad product, this is a sign for me to avoid them. They way I look at it, if they can't get something like this right (among many other problems I've seen with STAG), what else are they getting WRONG? Think of things that may not show up immediately or things that might subtly be off but affect some other aspect of the gun (like accuracy) where it's hard to pinpoint what's wrong...not worth it especially considering you can buy top notch, top quality AR products...

Also, read my sig... :)

I think everyone here knows how I feel about Stag products, so Im just going to say you nailed it with the above statement! :D

smogcity
09-26-2008, 12:58 PM
oopsie.. :)


That is awesome. A 20 minute reply from EMAIL?? And without a fight they offer to send him a box (free of charge) to return the lower and have it replaced.

I don't expect a company to get everything right to earn my business. I expect a company to MAKE it right when there is a mistake. It looks like Stag is willing to do this and in my book, that is the earmark of a good company to do business with.

+1
I've got 6 stag uppers and a few stag lowers. They have been 100% reliable. Two weeks ago I called them and let them know I lost the sling loop on one of the uppers. No questions asked but what my address was to send me the lost part. I hear a lot of stag bashing (mostly on afr.com, less so on calguns) but I got to tell you they have the secret to success:

Make a great product
Sell it at a fair price
Answer the phone/email
Fix the customer's problem without complaint

They have my business loyalty because they earned it.

I have told other companies (dell for example) that if you wont stand behind your product/customer I won't buy your product again. Some have lost a lifetime income stream from me over a trivial issue, And then spend $$$ over and over on direct mailers, etc to try to get me to buy their product again. Stag seems to get that it is cheaper and easier to keep current customers happy then look for new ones.

RECCE556
09-26-2008, 1:10 PM
+1
I've got 6 stag uppers and a few stag lowers. They have been 100% reliable.
You should go buy a lottery ticket... :)

edit: Get me one too while you're there.... :)

moulton
11-03-2008, 9:58 AM
Update, I got a shipping tracking number today, shipped out on Friday:gunsmilie:

moulton
11-12-2008, 8:02 PM
Update, I got a shipping tracking number today, shipped out on Friday:gunsmilie:

Got back from a trip today and just opened the box....and I am disappointed.... the lower receiver was the same S/N but definitely a new one that is in spec when I did a test fit. The disappointment came from the fact that they neglected to include;

-rear take-down pin
-rear take-down spring
-rear take-down detent
-ambidextrous selector
-selector spring
-selector detent
-pistol grip screw
-pistol grip washer

another e-mail sent :(

BroncoBob
11-12-2008, 8:06 PM
Krap that's not cool.....

jandmtv
11-12-2008, 9:16 PM
Stag strikes again!

shark92651
11-12-2008, 9:34 PM
Got back from a trip today and just opened the box....and I am disappointed.... the lower receiver was the same S/N but definitely a new one that is in spec when I did a test fit. The disappointment came from the fact that they neglected to include;

-rear take-down pin
-rear take-down spring
-rear take-down detent
-ambidextrous selector
-selector spring
-selector detent
-pistol grip screw
-pistol grip washer

another e-mail sent :(

Are you missing the stock and pistol grip too? Without those most of the parts you mention would just fall out anyway.

moulton
11-13-2008, 2:04 AM
Are you missing the stock and pistol grip too? Without those most of the parts you mention would just fall out anyway.

No pistol grip or stock, I checked the box but no extra parts. When I sent mine in I placed the loose parts in a mini-ziplock bag and taped it to the lower.... :(

moulton
11-24-2008, 4:30 PM
Well, got the parts I asked for... Started assembling the lower and realized I didnt tell them to send a buffer retainer and buffer retainer spring, my fault so I went on Numrich/Bronwells and found they wanted $10 for both of them.....good old trusty Midwayusa had both for $2 and some change. I bought the parts just now and they tacked on a $3 minimum charge fee but I was able to get 1st class mail for under $3 instead of UPS ground for $10.....so in all I spent $8 for two parts costing less than $3 lol.

wildcard
11-24-2008, 4:51 PM
Since you're working with a new lower.. please do a better job of coloring in the stamp markings or just leave them alone :)

ar15barrels
11-24-2008, 5:07 PM
Since you're working with a new lower.. please do a better job of coloring in the stamp markings or just leave them alone :)

Damn, and I thought I was a perfectionist... :rofl2:

moulton
11-24-2008, 5:17 PM
Since you're working with a new lower.. please do a better job of coloring in the stamp markings or just leave them alone :)

lol,I tried the Crayon method.....not impressed, I'm going to do the testors paint method with this ;)

Paratus et Vigilans
11-24-2008, 5:42 PM
Also, read my sig... :)

Read mine! :)

I've got a whole lot of Stag, and not a single complaint. They all function flawlessly. They're all accurate as hell. Should I get a Lotto ticket too?

I have to wonder whether all the Stag bashers even have personal experience with the product. I think Hector from CWS summed it up pretty well a while back, which was (paraphrasing here) that Stag sells so much that the percentage of QC problems, while small, still adds up to more in actual numbers than some of the other vendors who sell a lot less units.

BTW, I love my two Bushmasters, too. Guess I'm either lucky, easy, or both! :D

6172crew
11-24-2008, 5:47 PM
I have the same issue with my Frankfort Arsenal XM177 with is a NFA firearm, I called the new FA guy and he doesnt have a SOT and the original lower from Oly arms cant be touched by them because they didnt make it full auto. My spike tactical upper is so tight I cant push the pin all the way through.:rolleyes:

Spikes wont warranty the upper if its modified and the lower is worth $10k so Im stuck with a semi-auto 22lr pistol upper.:mad:

BigBamBoo
11-24-2008, 5:53 PM
..............

shark92651
11-24-2008, 7:49 PM
Well, got the parts I asked for... Started assembling the lower and realized I didnt tell them to send a buffer retainer and buffer retainer spring, my fault so I went on Numrich/Bronwells and found they wanted $10 for both of them.....good old trusty Midwayusa had both for $2 and some change. I bought the parts just now and they tacked on a $3 minimum charge fee but I was able to get 1st class mail for under $3 instead of UPS ground for $10.....so in all I spent $8 for two parts costing less than $3 lol.

Not bad, but I have those two parts for $1.72 and $4.80 for shipping so I could have gotten them to you for $6.52. Next time don't send "loose parts" back to the mfg - just keep those so they can't lose them :D

moulton
11-24-2008, 8:02 PM
Not bad, but I have those two parts for $1.72 and $4.80 for shipping so I could have gotten them to you for $6.52. Next time don't send "loose parts" back to the mfg - just keep those so they can't lose them :D

Well shoot, I didn't even think of looking at your store, I didnt expect anyone else to carry the small stuff, just LPK's:rolleyes: