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Rabidmonkey777
09-24-2008, 1:35 PM
So im doing a build right now with a stag lower etc, and was wondering about the muzzle device. If i have a prince 50 button installed and a 10-20/30 p mag installed can I put on a YHM phatom flash suppressor? I am not sure. If i can will i be able to order it and have it shipped to CA? As of now i have no device on my del-ton upper, and bare threads. Thanks in advance.

aplinker
09-24-2008, 1:51 PM
I can answer your question with a simple, "Yes and yes," but you should really understand why.

(also, why are you using a P50 instead of a BB or B15?)

Read through this (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf)

and then this is my "shortish" layout of legality...

By not falling under these classifications by features we're able to build our guns to be legally compliant and not considered an AW. This goes for any rifle.

Here's the 1st section:
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276,
"assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the
capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of
the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously
beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

What this says is that, assuming the gun is not an AW by 12276 (i.e., listed by make and model) it can still be an AW if it has any features and is built adhering to the definition given.

The 1st sentence contains 3 conditions: the rifle is semi-automatic, centerfire and with a detachable magazine. The 4th condition is having any (or all) of the features listed. To build an assault weapon by features the rifle must contain all conditions from the first sentence (semi-auto, centerfire and detachable mags) along with at least one of the features listed.

This gives us 4 ways to avoid having an assault weapon, as avoiding any one of these 4 conditions prevents meeting this definition of type-3 assault weapon.

Thus, most of the guns you see here are built either:
S1.) Having no features listed above (MMG, U-15, M1A, Saiga)
S2.) Using a bullet button (or Prince50, JumboPandaLock, Raddlock, JJPerl) to lock the magazine in place, thus allowing the rifle to have those features.
S3.) Building the rifle for .22lr (notice the definition says centerfire)
S4.) A gas system that doesn't operate (bolt-action repeater instead of semi-auto)

Lastly, there are conditions that must be met for the above types of rifles:
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276,
"assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic..... (snip)
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a
fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an
overall length of less than 30 inches.

Now it's important to match these two additional conditions where they have relevance.

12276.1(a)-2 only applies to a fixed magazine rifle (S2 types from above - bullet button, SKS, etc) types. It requires that the magazine used only be 10rds or less. Thus, it only applies to our non-detachable magazine varieties. All other types can have any capacity available to them* (see below) Styles S1, S3 and S4 would not fall under this requirement and would be allowed to use those magazines.

12276.1(a)-3 only applies to semi-auto centerfire rifles. This includes both featureless and fixed-magazine rifles (S1 and S2 from above). That means they would need to be over 30" OAL (when measured with the stock collapsed or folded by CA court case law). Both styles of rifles that are non-semi-auto repeater (S4) or rimfire (S3) would only fall under california's definition for needing all long guns over 26" (with stock folded or collapsed).

That concludes ALL possible ways to make an assault weapon rifle (not pistol or shotgun) in California.

Rabidmonkey777
09-24-2008, 2:23 PM
Thanks for the reply uclaplinker, im excited to get my AR compliant so i can finish the build and take it to the range. So is a BB better than the p50?

aplinker
09-24-2008, 2:36 PM
Thanks for the reply uclaplinker, im excited to get my AR compliant so i can finish the build and take it to the range. So is a BB better than the p50?

Yes

> Lastest way for "Fixed mag" Rifle, what is Bullet-Tip-Mag-Lock aka Bullet-Button: (1) original BB design (w/ gfx) (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45322) (2) Gene/Hoffmang original explanation (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45321) (3) 1st commerical implementation by Prince50 (w/ pic) (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=46802)


Most everything you're asking is available in this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56818)

nobs11
09-24-2008, 2:54 PM
Thanks for the reply uclaplinker, im excited to get my AR compliant so i can finish the build and take it to the range. So is a BB better than the p50?

Depends on your purpose. If you have property in Nevada say and travel there every weekend, removing the BB can be a real pain if you want to have a tool free mag release. If you plan to stay in CA, the BB is a better option.

aplinker
09-24-2008, 2:55 PM
Depends on your purpose. If you have property in Nevada say and travel there every weekend, removing the BB can be a real pain if you want to have a tool free mag release. If you plan to stay in CA, the BB is a better option.

BB includes the B15 BB... which would be just as easy.

5968
09-24-2008, 3:44 PM
I have both the Prine 50 and the BB. I prefer the BB, it makes loading so much easier!