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Mark One
09-23-2008, 7:10 PM
Hello everyone,

Well I have decided to build a AR-15 style rifle rather than buying a M1A. I figured it would be a little easier and allow for more fun down the road.

Anyways I am completely new at this and would appreciate some help. right now the only think I know I am getting is the B15 bullet button. Other than that I do not know what lower or what upper I want.

So my first question:

Where should I look to pick up a good Lower? I am not looking to go cheap but not willing to blow the bank. I have a $1200 limit on this project for right now but am also planning to spread it out over a couple months so I may be willing to go higher if need be.

Second, what lowers would you recommend? I have done a quick search throughout the forums but cant find anything that suggest lowers or uppers or even a topic that took someone step by step. (I am sure it is out there, I just cant find it).

Third, besides a Lower, Upper, and Lower Parts what else do I need to have a accurate and functioning AR-15?

Thank you guys and if you know if any older post please post them here. I am like a sponge right now.

USN CHIEF
09-23-2008, 7:16 PM
Talk to Addax Tactical or Ten Percent Firearms. They have everything you need and they will ensure that you only get the parts that you need.

http://www.calguns.net/OLL/assembly.html

jksupplyco
09-23-2008, 7:21 PM
Where are you located? You'll have to find a local shop to either transfer a lower you buy online, or purchase one from a stocking dealer. Your location will aid subsequent responses in directing you to the right place.

Josh3239
09-23-2008, 7:21 PM
Mark,

Firstly, just about any lower will do. They are all built to the same specs, in my opinon, go with the cheapest one or one that has the coolest company logo. You really can't screw up this choice, the only receivers that most people agree are no good are Hesse/Vulcan. I have had great experiences with Spike's Tactical personally, though Stag seems to be the most popular here. Take a look at Anvil Arms, $100 lowers with free laser engraving :D. Keep in mind this is the only part that requires an FFL.

I have never had a problem with either of Bushmaster or DPMS's LPKs. If your interested JSE Surplus has DPMS LPKs for $49. So far I haven't seen a better deal.

Secondly, the upper is another part that is hard to screw up. Again most people would suggest to stay away from Vulcan/Hesse and Blackthorne seems to have very mixed reviews.

The AR15 itself is an accurate rifle. If your looking for something very accurate I would suggest free float handguards, a more expensive barrel, good scope, full stock, and either a 2 stage trigger or a lighter trigger.

For functioning, again the AR15 is a great rifle. For added reliability, M4 feed ramps appear to feed rounds better. There are some that even prefer a gas piston system and some that dislike the carbine DI system. I have only been using the stock system (DI) with a carbine barrel and never had problems.

Mark One
09-23-2008, 7:44 PM
First off I would like to thank everyone for taking their time to respond to my questions. I am sure you have answered countless others like it.

Where are you located? You'll have to find a local shop to either transfer a lower you buy online, or purchase one from a stocking dealer. Your location will aid subsequent responses in directing you to the right place.

I live in Southern California in Aliso Viejo. But I would not mind driving if need be.

I am going to go look though that link tomorrow, right now I need to get to bed for another early day.

Thanks again

Vinz
09-23-2008, 8:01 PM
Welcome to the site.

Lowers, get one on a deal if you can. Here's a great opportunity.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=119324

The way I see it, its like a hot rod engine...put your money in the top end. Thats where the power is.

Addax tactical can help you in that area.


vinz

Josh3239
09-23-2008, 8:44 PM
Eh, Addax is far from Aliso Viejo. Ade's in Orange would be closer.

aplinker
09-23-2008, 9:36 PM
$1200 will build you a very nice rifle.

Call the shops around you and see what their prices are. Support Calguns sponsors with your purchase.

Barrel, BCG, trigger, stock, free-float... that's where to spend your "extra" money over a cheaper build. ;)

Addax
09-24-2008, 12:08 AM
Eh, Addax is far from Aliso Viejo. Ade's in Orange would be closer.

True, but for any orders over $750.00 we offer free ground shipping.. :D

Any orders below $750.00 ground shipping is only a flat rate of $6.95

Mark One
09-24-2008, 3:09 PM
I do not mind driving far to get a good set-up.

Where is Addax located?

Josh3239
09-24-2008, 3:15 PM
He is in Chatsworth but he doesn't carry lowers. Which is why I suggested Ade's in Orange. For everything else, if you don't mind driving to him, Addax is the guy to talk to.

Mark One
09-24-2008, 3:34 PM
Sounds like a plan

Quick question, does LRB make good receivers for AR-15's? I know they make one of the best M1A receivers.

http://www.lrbarms.com/m15sareceivers.html

Theres a link to there website. I am thinking I would buy the one with the lower parts included.

Fjold
09-24-2008, 3:37 PM
I would recommend the RRA lower parts kit with the match trigger. It's a very good trigger for the money.

5968
09-24-2008, 3:39 PM
Welcome to the forum and congrats on your decision to build an AR. With a budget of $1200, I would get a CMMG/Stag ect.. lower, a RRA 2 stage lower parts kit and a gas piston upper. Sights and stock of your choice.

nobs11
09-24-2008, 3:44 PM
Welcome to the forum and congrats on your decision to build an AR. With a budget of $1200, I would get a CMMG/Stag ect.. lower, a RRA 2 stage lower parts kit and a gas piston upper. Sights and stock of your choice.

Everything above except ask yourself if you really need a gas piston upper. It is only beneficial if you shoot a lot and don't take care of your guns. Some claim you lose accuracy with a GP system. I'd instead get a high end barrel and free floating handguards.

Josh3239
09-24-2008, 3:54 PM
Sounds like a plan

Quick question, does LRB make good receivers for AR-15's? I know they make one of the best M1A receivers.

http://www.lrbarms.com/m15sareceivers.html

Theres a link to there website. I am thinking I would buy the one with the lower parts included.

They are built to the same spec as is just about any other lower.

Mark One
09-24-2008, 4:35 PM
Thank you everyone,

One thing I forgot to mention, and I do not know if this makes a difference, but I am building this weapon as my SHTF personal defense. It will also be my main shooting rifle but I would like it to be reliable first and accurate shooter second.

Also, what is a gas piston upper and what does it do?

Mark One
09-24-2008, 4:39 PM
I also meant to ask:

What is the difference between a AR-15 and a M4?

And...

Is there anyway I can use more than a 10 round magazine with a B15? As in I go and find a pre-ban one or buy them as "Part Kits"?

Mark One
09-24-2008, 4:56 PM
I also found this great post:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=1165997#post1165997

I am going to read it later tonight after some work.

I cannot wait to get started

c good
09-24-2008, 5:36 PM
I also meant to ask:

What is the difference between a AR-15 and a M4?

And...

Is there anyway I can use more than a 10 round magazine with a B15? As in I go and find a pre-ban one or buy them as "Part Kits"?

No can do! If you didn't own it before Jan 1, 2000 any mag over 10 rounds is illegal for you to own. Also, even if you did own an over 10 round mag before Jan. 1, 2000 you cannot affix it to a B15 (fixed mag) configuration. Know the AW/SB23 laws inside and out before you step into the OLL world. You're doing the right thing by inquiring here. These Calguns guys are you best source of info. $1200 will get you a very SWEET set up. Congrats and keep us posted on it's progress. HTH c good

shark92651
09-24-2008, 6:08 PM
Mark,

All the vendors that posted are great to do business with and I don't want to steer you away from any of them. However our shop is in Costa Mesa just up the 405 a bit from you if you want to stop by and look at any of the items we carry. Also, J&J Armory is in Santa Ana and they stock AR-15 lower receivers so would probably be your best bet if looking for a local lower receiver. Also, I'm in the shop every Saturday if you want any help assembling your lower receiver.

Mark One
09-24-2008, 7:59 PM
Mark,

All the vendors that posted are great to do business with and I don't want to steer you away from any of them. However our shop is in Costa Mesa just up the 405 a bit from you if you want to stop by and look at any of the items we carry. Also, J&J Armory is in Santa Ana and they stock AR-15 lower receivers so would probably be your best bet if looking for a local lower receiver. Also, I'm in the shop every Saturday if you want any help assembling your lower receiver.

Thank you very much for the offer. Will you guys be open tomorrow? I would love to stop by and take a look around.

Josh3239
09-24-2008, 10:30 PM
Thank you everyone,

One thing I forgot to mention, and I do not know if this makes a difference, but I am building this weapon as my SHTF personal defense. It will also be my main shooting rifle but I would like it to be reliable first and accurate shooter second.

Also, what is a gas piston upper and what does it do?

AR15s are inherently very accurate and inherently very reliable. It isn't like you can build one that shoots innacurately or unreliably.

The gas piston upper is exactly what it sounds like, a gas piston. The AR15 uses a direct impingment system. Many people knock it but it is really a good system and unless you are planning really roughing up your gun, putting lots of rounds threw it, and getting it real dirty the gas piston really isn't necessary. The gas piston does add reliability but it also adds weight and can potentially lower the accuracy a bit.

IMO, if you use good quality mags, good quality ammo, and get an upper with M4 feedramps it will be reliable enough. The military has used the DI system for years, many enemies in many wars are dead because of what it did.

nobs11
09-24-2008, 11:05 PM
The gas piston does add reliability but it also adds weight and can potentially lower the accuracy a bit.


I don't want to make this into a GP/DI argument, but I think "potentially" should be changed to "likely." I have never seen a GP system that shoots sub-MOA. I have 3 DI uppers that regularly do that. It is great for a "combat" or SHTF rifle though. I do acknowledge that it runs a lot cleaner. For his first build, the OP might want to stick to a DI.

Addax
09-24-2008, 11:24 PM
I don't want to make this into a GP/DI argument, but I think "potentially" should be changed to "likely." I have never seen a GP system that shoots sub-MOA. I have 3 DI uppers that regularly do that. It is great for a "combat" or SHTF rifle though. I do acknowledge that it runs a lot cleaner. For his first build, the OP might want to stick to a DI.

I just took this new Addax GPU to the range and plinked around with it at ASR shooting at 100 yards.

I did not have a spotting scope with me, so it took me a few more rounds to get the scope dialed in.

Once I got the scope dialed in on this upper, I was hitting around the bullseye.

The max power on this scope is 3x, and it has a dot reticle.

I was using XM193 55 grain rounds.

The barrel is a Lothar-Walther 1/8 Twist 16" Stainless (parkerized) Mid-Length Barrel.

My last group, 7 out of 10 shots are within the bullseye ring. Accurate Enough using a 3x scope?

Today, I just received my Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5x-16X 50mm Obj. Mil. Dot Reticle rifle scope and I am waiting for my GG&G AR rings, and some Federal Match ammo I ordered.

When I get that set up, I will take some real accuracy shots, and I am sure I will have even tighter groups. :D

Some people I have spoken to, have had poor accuracy issues with POF Gas Piston Uppers, but our Gas Piston Uppers utilizes a much better system from PWS, and throughout my testing, I have yet to experience any adverse accuracy issues. That is why we can market the Addax GPU's with confidence that you will get AK reliability while retaining General AR Accuracy.


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0016.jpg

aplinker
09-25-2008, 12:10 AM
Stick with a standard DI AR and use the "extra" money you have in your budget to build a good system.

Don't worry about brand of lower - they're all the same, except Hesse/Vulcan.

Once you understand the fundamentals of building an AR, you'll be able to pick your upper brand. If you want a matched upper/lower you can select a lower to match your upper choice - but it won't necessarily make any difference in fit or finish, just logo.

At $1200 if you're looking for a 16" build, I'd recommend Bravo Company's mid-length barreled upper. You can add a bolt carrier group (also from BCM), charging handle and handguard to make a complete upper - all drop-in parts and very easy to do. I would also agree a RRA NM 2-stage LPK is the way to go, since you have some additional fund built in. You'll need a rear sight or carry handle (your choice, folding rear sight allows unobstructed use of an optic). Add on a good, solid stock (VLTOR, LMT SOPMOD, Magpul) and probably a grip (ERGO, Magpul MIAD) and you'll have a rifle under budget that real pros would be glad to field. If you can't wait for a BCM upper, or want to save a couple dollars (not much of a difference, really) the CMMG mid-length medcon or lightweight is a nice alternative.

Any of the known companies (RRA, Stag, LMT, BCM, Colt, Armalite) will make an upper that will run well. Little differences and improvements that can have large effects in reliability can be had for marginal price differences - your money is well spent on these. Things like 4150 steel for the barrel, chrome lining, an MPI barrel and bolt, M4 feedramps, etc.

Enjoy the process - it's tinker toys for adults :)

Eagle87Tango
09-25-2008, 12:36 AM
I'm putting together an AR-15 as well. Double Star lower with Armalite M15A4 20" upper. I am currently in the process of purchasing the upper here on the forums.

shark92651
09-25-2008, 1:53 PM
Thank you very much for the offer. Will you guys be open tomorrow? I would love to stop by and take a look around.

We are open Mon-Sat, 10am - 6pm.

f4ipowered
09-25-2008, 2:11 PM
Once you get the Lower and take care of your DOJ obligations you can get all of the other items online and build it at home. No offence to the shops that will take care of all of this for you, but I think it kind of takes away the fun of watching the build come together. Especially if you consider yourself at least somewhat mechanically inclined. If what you really want is a rifle to go to the range right now, then by all means go to one of these shops and get all set up. If you have a decent set of tools and are of the opinion that the trip is as good as the destination, the buy the pieces and build it yourself. You will probably get a nicer end product for your 1200 dollars too.
I built my rifle along with some friends who were also working on builds, and it would not have been near as much fun to just get the fully assembled gun right away. Additionally you will know your rifle so much better when you have problems down the line.

Mark One
09-25-2008, 2:15 PM
You guys are the most helpful bunch around! I could never thank you enough for all of this help.

We are open Mon-Sat, 10am - 6pm.

I am unable to make it today but I will be there tomorrow. I hope to be leaving with a few things to get me started.

CHS
09-25-2008, 2:35 PM
You guys are the most helpful bunch around! I could never thank you enough for all of this help.



I am unable to make it today but I will be there tomorrow. I hope to be leaving with a few things to get me started.

Don't do it!!! They are friendly, and helpful, and smile the whole time they keep taking your money!! :)

Don't forget to say hi to the ferocious dachshunds that roam freely around the place too. Scary little beasts :)

Mark One
09-25-2008, 3:41 PM
How does everyone like these parts? Also, what is a LMT bolt carrier group?

Stag-15 lower receiver
LMT M4 upper w/LMT bolt carrier group
Samson MRFS-C free float rail system
RRA parts kit
RRA National Match 2-stage trigger
RRA M4 6-position stock
A.R.M.S. flip up rear iron sight
Tango Down front pistol grip

knucklehead 61
09-25-2008, 3:54 PM
not to thread jack, but what is wrong with vulcan lowers? i have one & all i can tell apart from my stag & spikes is the coloring. are they weaker castings or crappy tolerances? :confused:

Addax
09-25-2008, 4:25 PM
How does everyone like these parts? Also, what is a LMT bolt carrier group?

Stag-15 lower receiver
LMT M4 upper w/LMT bolt carrier group
Samson MRFS-C free float rail system
RRA parts kit
RRA National Match 2-stage trigger
RRA M4 6-position stock
A.R.M.S. flip up rear iron sight
Tango Down front pistol grip

Looks good, but I would suggest the DD Omega Rail and a Magpul CTR stock vs. the RRA M4 stock. I like DD rails vs. the Samson Rail, and the Omega is a drop in rail. If you want to go free float, then I would suggest the DD Lite 7.0 or 9.5 FSP, or the DD M4 Rail (7.0 or 9.5 fsp).

Btw, the folks at Riflegear are really great and friendly.

I am sure they can help you out with everything you, and they are much closer to you than we are.

Hope my input helps.

Thanks,
Chris

5968
09-25-2008, 5:03 PM
Everything above except ask yourself if you really need a gas piston upper. It is only beneficial if you shoot a lot and don't take care of your guns. Some claim you lose accuracy with a GP system. I'd instead get a high end barrel and free floating handguards.

I was just telling him what I would get.;)

Mark One
09-25-2008, 5:05 PM
Addax your information has been invaluable

I plan on buying a couple things from your website and having them shipped to me. I just want to get my starter gear from the closer shop.

Here is another question:

Why qualifies a Lower to be on the Off List? Why are some On list and others Off?

Josh3239
09-25-2008, 5:14 PM
The DOJ made a list of all the receivers that are banned, it is mostly ARs and AKs but it includes other things such as certain CETMEs. Anything not on the ban list is legal. The reason why there are still receivers off the list is unknown and new companies continue to rise up and the DOJ no longer has the power to add more receivers to the list.

This is one of the ban lists called Kasler: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf#xml=http://search.doj.ca.gov:8004/AGSearch/isysquery/94f36fc6-7c19-466e-ae50-13e13de4a2cd/6/hilite/. There is also Roberti-Roos plus the features ban which is called SB23.

X-NewYawker
09-25-2008, 6:12 PM
I just took this new Addax GPU to the range and plinked around with it at ASR shooting at 100 yards.

I did not have a spotting scope with me, so it took me a few more rounds to get the scope dialed in.

Once I got the scope dialed in on this upper, I was hitting around the bullseye.

The max power on this scope is 3x, and it has a dot reticle.

I was using XM193 55 grain rounds.

The barrel is a Lothar-Walther 1/8 Twist 16" Stainless (parkerized) Mid-Length Barrel.

My last group, 7 out of 10 shots are within the bullseye ring. Accurate Enough using a 3x scope?

Today, I just received my Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5x-16X 50mm Obj. Mil. Dot Reticle rifle scope and I am waiting for my GG&G AR rings, and some Federal Match ammo I ordered.

When I get that set up, I will take some real accuracy shots, and I am sure I will have even tighter groups. :D

Some people I have spoken to, have had poor accuracy issues with POF Gas Piston Uppers, but our Gas Piston Uppers utilizes a much better system from PWS, and throughout my testing, I have yet to experience any adverse accuracy issues. That is why we can market the Addax GPU's with confidence that you will get AK reliability while retaining General AR Accuracy.


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0016.jpg

A tip for everyone -- when you are sighting in, and finally have the shots in the black -- Walk out 100 yards
CHANGE TO A FRESH TARGET.
THEN shoot some groups.
Then take the pictures.

Then they look like this:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/kimber-AT-100-yard-group.jpg

And NOT Shotgun pattern boards.

I'm not trying to flame anyone, I just don't have all the variations of guns you guys have and I want to know what barrel/ammo combos shoot the best groups. I know it's a pain. I have avoided clean groups for years, but now my job requires it.

I'm John McCain and I approve this message.

aplinker
09-25-2008, 7:23 PM
Get a DD Lite or m4 rail and skip the Samson or Omega. Riflegear can install so Omega is a bad choice comparatively.

LMT makes the nicest easy to get carbine. I would still rather see you go mid length and think you would prefer it.

Mark One
09-25-2008, 7:58 PM
Get a DD Lite or m4 rail and skip the Samson or Omega. Riflegear can install so Omega is a bad choice comparatively.

LMT makes the nicest easy to get carbine. I would still rather see you go mid length and think you would prefer it.

Whats the difference in barrel length?

BlackDrop50
09-25-2008, 8:06 PM
For around $1200 I built

CMMG Lower - 200 after fees and tax
CMMG Upper 16" Govt Mid-Length- 500
CMMG LPK- 60
RRA 2 Stage NM Trigger - 120
Stag Mil-Spec Stock - 80
1 10 Round Mag - 16
B15 - 35
Troy BUIS - 140

= 1151 + tax


Very accurate and reliable. I added/changed a bunch of stuff now so I recommend you save up and buy what you want.

aplinker
09-25-2008, 8:31 PM
For around $1200 I built

CMMG Lower - 200 after fees and tax
CMMG Upper 16" Govt Mid-Length- 500
CMMG LPK- 60
RRA 2 Stage NM Trigger - 120
Stag Mil-Spec Stock - 80
1 10 Round Mag - 16
B15 - 35
Troy BUIS - 140

= 1151 + tax


Very accurate and reliable. I added/changed a bunch of stuff now so I recommend you save up and buy what you want.

Just a suggestion, but LegalTransfers, LanWorld and others have the RRA NM 2-stage LPK for about $130 or so.

Also, you might consider a little heavier profile on the barrel, but it's your call (weight vs stiffness)

Use the extra $ to upgrade the stock to a CTR, VLTOR or SOPMOD. :)

ChrisXD45T
09-25-2008, 8:37 PM
Whats the difference in barrel length?

Barrel length is the same (16"), but the gas system is longer.
This extra length reduces heat and pressure in the system, alleviating some stress on parts and making the rifle more reliable.

What uclaplinker recommended to you in an earlier post is something very similar to one of my AR set-ups, and you will do well by listening to his advice on ARs.
Anyway, on to my set-up:
BCM 16" mid-length upper - $450
BCM BCG - $130
Standard plastic handguards - $20
Charging handle - $17
P.O.F. lower w/G&R tactical LPK - $350 (this could have been done cheaper w/other brands. e.g. a Stag w/RRA LPK - $230+/-)
Magpul UBR stock - $250

Mark One
09-26-2008, 11:54 AM
Then a Mid Length upper it is. I am heading down to the riflegear shop right now.

I will let you all know what I come back with.

aplinker
09-26-2008, 2:28 PM
Then a Mid Length upper it is. I am heading down to the riflegear shop right now.

I will let you all know what I come back with.



You should read through Randall's AR-15 operation guide - it will give you some good info and understanding. It will also help you with why a mid-length gas system is a better choice than carbine.

Carbine pressure and short lock/dwell times make things hard on the rifle. Mid-length helps smooth this out.

Mark One
09-26-2008, 6:43 PM
So I went to RifleGear today but unfortunately came back empty handed. However the lady behind the counter was very nice and helpful and directed me to a place that sells lowers and others parts I am looking to grab in person. The place is called J&J Armory. I am going to head back there tomorrow after work and grab a lower, I am thinking Stag.

Anyways I have a couple questions about some parts I am looking to order online.

Here are some links:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=49&idproduct=318
Or
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=49&idproduct=317

So is the NM trigger worth the extra $80 to put on a defense weapon? This will probably be my main shooting rifle too but I do not plan on entering tournaments with it (I am saving that for the day I get a M1A).

stphnman20
09-26-2008, 6:47 PM
J&J is a great place to do business with..Very nice peeps! I was there last week and they have Stag and CMMG lowers available..

aplinker
09-26-2008, 10:26 PM
J&J probably has a 2-stage and stock trigger you can try. Yes, it's worth it.

Again LanWorld and Legal Transfers have deals on the 2-stage kit which puts it less than that.

J&J is very nice people. They can help you with the lower. Spread the love and shop around during your 10 days.

So I went to RifleGear today but unfortunately came back empty handed. However the lady behind the counter was very nice and helpful and directed me to a place that sells lowers and others parts I am looking to grab in person. The place is called J&J Armory. I am going to head back there tomorrow after work and grab a lower, I am thinking Stag.

Anyways I have a couple questions about some parts I am looking to order online.

Here are some links:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=49&idproduct=318
Or
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=49&idproduct=317

So is the NM trigger worth the extra $80 to put on a defense weapon? This will probably be my main shooting rifle too but I do not plan on entering tournaments with it (I am saving that for the day I get a M1A).

Addax
09-27-2008, 12:10 AM
Don't forget that we offer Calguns.net members a Forum Member discount, so with that discount, we are in the same ball park as Lanworld.

Plus we only charge $6.95 shipping for all orders up to $750.00, and Free Shipping over $750.00

J&J probably has a 2-stage and stock trigger you can try. Yes, it's worth it.

Again LanWorld and Legal Transfers have deals on the 2-stage kit which puts it less than that.

J&J is very nice people. They can help you with the lower. Spread the love and shop around during your 10 days.

aplinker
09-27-2008, 12:19 AM
Don't forget that we offer Calguns.net members a Forum Member discount, so with that discount, we are in the same ball park as Lanworld.

Plus we only charge $6.95 shipping for all orders up to $750.00, and Free Shipping over $750.00


Sounds good to me!

Shop & compare - don't forget to include shipping and tax in all purchase totals when doing so.

I'm a big buy from sponsors guy, but the sponsors have to do their part, too. :) A couple bucks difference - go with a sponsor. Remember, buying more from a single source (unless they're local) cuts on shipping fees, too.

Mark One
09-27-2008, 4:05 PM
Well I just got back from J&J Armory. What a great bunch of guys to deal with! All very helpful and even answered all of my questions without killing me. They were a little low on Lower receivers to choose from but I got want I wanted, a nice Stag. Now the 10 day waiting period and I will be set to go. I am going to order a lower parts NM 2 stag trigger from Addax tonight and a nice butt stock next week so I can have the lower assembly complete.

Thanks again to everyone for the immense help you have given me. You are all top notch guys here.

Once I get the parts in front of me I am sure I will have a couple more questions so I'll bump this thread then.

Thanks again everyone

stphnman20
09-27-2008, 6:26 PM
Congrats on the new lower.. J&J is awsome. I bought my Stag lower from them not to long ago.. Any questions you have, just feel free to post them.

Crusader
09-27-2008, 6:47 PM
Haha, that's funny. I purchased a Stag lower from J&J this morning. Good guys, answered all my questions with no hassle.

bandogg
09-29-2008, 3:58 PM
Where is this J&J. I'm in Riverside, is it close to me.:auto:

aplinker
09-29-2008, 4:01 PM
Where is this J&J. I'm in Riverside, is it close to me.:auto:

You're right next to two of the best...

Bright Spot Pawn in Riverside and Cold War Shooters in Highland.

J&J is in OC.

bandogg
09-29-2008, 4:17 PM
Sweet i know where bright spot is , thx:73:

aplinker
09-29-2008, 4:25 PM
You owe yourself a trip to CWS, as well.

bandogg
09-29-2008, 4:50 PM
You owe yourself a trip to CWS, as well.
Do they do transfers there too. Selling my USP to my cousin this weeked. Maybe we can do it at CWS.:13:

aplinker
09-29-2008, 6:28 PM
all FFLs are legally obligated to do ppts

Pick up a lower while you're there and gawk at the selection

Mark One
09-29-2008, 6:50 PM
I have another question. Today I bought that RRA NM 2 Stage Lower Parts Kit from Addax. However, I decided to wait buy the butt stock for another time a little ways down the road.

Right now I cant decided between a Magpul UBR Stock:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=683

Or

a CTR:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=297

A question I have is do I have to buy the entire stock set? IE: Buffer, Spring, End Plate and anything else I might have missed?

Also, I am guessing the UBR is heavier, but I cannot find any specs on it. Does anyone know how much it weighs?

Addax
09-29-2008, 9:54 PM
Hi Mark One,

I personally love the UBR, but they are still on back order, and many of us dealers have been waiting months for our back orders to be filled.

I also use the CTR and it is an Excellent Stock.

The CTR stock is an excellent collapsible stock, it is lighter that the UBR, and it has a nice lock up feature so the stock won't wiggle when engaged.

The CTR is also allot more cost effective vs. the UBR.

Another alternative stock is the LMT Sopmod stock, which is another one of my favorites.

Yes, you will need to also pick up buffer tube, buffer spring, buffer, back plate, and castle nut.

We can put together the stock parts kit for you.

I would also recommend picking up the low cost spanner wrench for the castle nut.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Chris

I have another question. Today I bought that RRA NM 2 Stage Lower Parts Kit from Addax. However, I decided to wait buy the butt stock for another time a little ways down the road.

Right now I cant decided between a Magpul UBR Stock:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=683

Or

a CTR:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=297

A question I have is do I have to buy the entire stock set? IE: Buffer, Spring, End Plate and anything else I might have missed?

Also, I am guessing the UBR is heavier, but I cannot find any specs on it. Does anyone know how much it weighs?

aplinker
09-30-2008, 12:24 AM
Good info below.

The CTR is nice, but I prefer the SOPMOD. Unless you're building a longer rifle (I'd say SPR or more) go with a CTR or SOPMOD.

The UBR is just too heavy for me to want to carry. It weighs about 1.5# with its tube. A CTR alone is about 0.5#. Its tube adds a few more ounces. I'd say it's about 1/2.

Hi Mark One,

I personally love the UBR, but they are still on back order, and many of us dealers have been waiting months for our back orders to be filled.

I also use the CTR and it is an Excellent Stock.

The CTR stock is an excellent collapsible stock, it is lighter that the UBR, and it has a nice lock up feature so the stock won't wiggle when engaged.

The CTR is also allot more cost effective vs. the UBR.

Another alternative stock is the LMT Sopmod stock, which is another one of my favorites.

Yes, you will need to also pick up buffer tube, buffer spring, buffer, back plate, and castle nut.

We can put together the stock parts kit for you.

I would also recommend picking up the low cost spanner wrench for the castle nut.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Chris

Mark One
09-30-2008, 4:00 PM
Thanks guys!

Again you have given my invaluable information.

I now have yet another question.

Would it be better if I built my own upper rather than buying a complete? Or is it better to just buy a complete upper? Also, what are all the parts that make up a complete upper?

Thanks

Josh3239
09-30-2008, 4:51 PM
Would it be better if I built my own upper rather than buying a complete? Or is it better to just buy a complete upper? Also, what are all the parts that make up a complete upper?

Thanks

I think most people buy complete uppers.

I just built my first. It is essentially:
-stripper upper
-forward assist
-ejection port cover assembly
-barrel
-barrel nut
-gas tube
-gas block
-BCG

You WILL need the appropriate tools to tighten the barrel nut. The rest is pretty simple, well the barrel nut is actually simple but it is a big pain in the a**

aplinker
09-30-2008, 5:01 PM
Thanks guys!

Again you have given my invaluable information.

I now have yet another question.

Would it be better if I built my own upper rather than buying a complete? Or is it better to just buy a complete upper? Also, what are all the parts that make up a complete upper?

Thanks

Buy or have it built for you. The tools required cost more than it would be to pay someone to do it. It's also not as simple as building a lower, and more is at stake.

The only reason to have it built for you, over buying complete, is if you want a specific configuration that's not readily available.

Randall (ar15barrels) is very capable and can do anything you want, with any parts you need.

Many of the vendors here can configure an upper as you'd like it (rails, gas blocks, etc).

stphnman20
09-30-2008, 5:07 PM
What they said above..

If your new to the game I suggest you get a complete upper..

Mark One
09-30-2008, 5:39 PM
Then a completed upper it is.

I know I want a mid-length upper with M4 feed ramps. I am not to picky about having a 16" barrel but the pro's say its the best option so I am leaning towards a 16" barrel with a 1/7 twist.

So my next question, what company makes a mid-length upper with M4 feed ramps and a 16" barrel?

I see a lot of mid lengths but no M4 feed ramps and I see a lot of Carbine Uppers with M4 feed ramps but of course they are not mid length.

I would like to keep the upper below $700 but if I need to raise it higher to get a better one then I guess I will have to.

Juicymeat
09-30-2008, 6:12 PM
I went with this upper and a LMT bolt:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm

Get it while they're still in stock, the usually run out FAST. Get a BCG, hand guards, and some rear sight of your choosing and you'll have an awesome upper for around 700 depending what you get.

Another (cheaper) route is get a CMMG upper from AIM, 525 plus the cost of a rear sight if needed.

ChrisXD45T
09-30-2008, 6:13 PM
Then a completed upper it is.

I know I want a mid-length upper with M4 feed ramps. I am not to picky about having a 16" barrel but the pro's say its the best option so I am leaning towards a 16" barrel with a 1/7 twist.

So my next question, what company makes a mid-length upper with M4 feed ramps and a 16" barrel?

I see a lot of mid lengths but no M4 feed ramps and I see a lot of Carbine Uppers with M4 feed ramps but of course they are not mid length.

I would like to keep the upper below $700 but if I need to raise it higher to get a better one then I guess I will have to.
Bravo Company makes an excellent mid-length upper with all the specs. you've listed.
You need to buy the handguards, bolt carrier group (get one by BCM or LMT), and charging handle separately but the total cost with plastic handguards comes to just under $650.
Their uppers can be found at:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/
http://global-tactical.com/
http://www.gandrtactical.com/

You might save $100 going with CMMG but the BCMs have better barrels and QC, and in my experience the standard CMMG bolt carrier groups are not properly staked or MPI; though if you order from CMMG directly (possibly a long wait) you can upgrade to an LMT BCG.



edit: someone else beat me to it. +1 for BCM.

aplinker
09-30-2008, 7:16 PM
BCM upper, BCM BCG, LMT Charging handle, and plastic handguards.

Order those up and take 2 minutes to assemble, and you have just about the best fighting gun you can get.

16" is the shortest you can go without a permanently attached muzzle device - longer doesn't really help you and becomes heavier and more unwieldy to handle.

Mark One
10-01-2008, 4:07 PM
Thank you guys. I now know what Upper I will be getting.

I was planning on waiting to get a upper until a couple weeks but I am thinking about ordering that BMC now and then waiting on the other parts until next month.

I do not want to break the entire gun fund all in one run. I still need money for ammo and extra magazines.

aplinker
10-01-2008, 8:55 PM
If you have to order one part now, get the upper - you can almost always order either an LMT or BCM BCG and the CH.

The uppers come and go quickly.

Mark One
10-02-2008, 2:09 PM
Just to let everyone know my LPK came in today from Addax. I ordered it three days ago if I remember correctly. Those guys over at Addax know what they are doing! I will be doing business with you guys again very soon.

I will also be recommending Addax to all of my friends who are also thinking about building their own AR-15.

You can but me on you long list of happy customers!

Addax
10-02-2008, 9:25 PM
Just to let everyone know my LPK came in today from Addax. I ordered it three days ago if I remember correctly. Those guys over at Addax know what they are doing! I will be doing business with you guys again very soon.

I will also be recommending Addax to all of my friends who are also thinking about building their own AR-15.

You can but me on you long list of happy customers!

Thank you for the business, and we look forward to working with you again and with your friends very soon.:D

Mark One
10-08-2008, 5:37 PM
Guess who just finished building his first Lower? <--- This guy that's who!

It took me about 1 hour and I came pretty damn close to chucking the thing out the window a few times. But I stuck it threw and have a beautiful Lower sitting in front of me. I am going back to J&J Armory tomorrow to have a expert check it out and make sure I did it right.

The bolt stop and trigger feel a little weird to me. The bolt stop doesn't move forward to far, but maybe that is how its suppose to be.

Once I get the okay from they guys over at J&J I will post pics of the lower.

I'll also be ordering the upper once I get the okay. Then a little break in the part buying.

Vinz
10-08-2008, 5:42 PM
Great, remember not to dry fire it with no upper....use your hand to put pressure on the hammer a bit and pull the trigger. Never let it fly free.

BTW...Congradulations!

vinz

Mark One
10-08-2008, 6:38 PM
Great, remember not to dry fire it with no upper....use your hand to put pressure on the hammer a bit and pull the trigger. Never let it fly free.

BTW...Congradulations!

vinz

I am glad you told me that! I only dried fired it about 5 times to ensure it was functioning properly.

dlouie87
10-09-2008, 12:02 AM
what happens if you dry fire with no upper?

I did that a couple times just to check function.

Mark One
10-09-2008, 4:44 PM
what happens if you dry fire with no upper?

I did that a couple times just to check function.

I noticed wearing already on my hammer and receiver from them smacking together with such force. I am guessing that after so many times the hammer could break and the receiver could be dented in near the bolt stop.

edittman1
10-09-2008, 5:58 PM
Get a noveske N4 light and call it a day. 16".

I've finally decided that the LMT MRP is just too heavy. :(

Vinz
10-09-2008, 6:34 PM
I noticed wearing already on my hammer and receiver from them smacking together with such force. I am guessing that after so many times the hammer could break and the receiver could be dented in near the bolt stop.

You will end up with a 2 piece bolt release lever or a 3 piece lower reciever.

If you must put your hand in front of it to keep it from smacking the hard parts.

vinz

Mark One
10-09-2008, 8:21 PM
Another update:

Just ordered my BCM Upper. The pocket is hurting but I am happy.

All I need now is the BCG (BCM), Charging Handle (LMT), Cheap Handguard for now, Rear site (Any recommendations?), and a Butt stock (I am thinking of getting a A2 (Does anyone have one? Pluses? Minuses?