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View Full Version : Aimpoint vs. Eotech


BlackRifle313
09-21-2008, 9:58 PM
Im trying to decide on the optic setup for my new AR that I will be using in 3 gun, so my question to you is Aimpoint comp M4 or the Eotech 512. Not so much a question of price but just the overall quality and your preference. Thanks!

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
09-21-2008, 10:03 PM
I think aimpoint has been around longer,
For me personally, eotech's are better for fast target acquisition, and easier to use with two eyes, not that the aimpoint isnt easy, my personal opinion is the eotech is easier.
A lot of people prefer the aimpoint, due to a history of durability, and reliability.

My brother just came back from the sandbox, he said he met and worked with on a few occasions the "cool guys" and they all had eotechs, with magnifiers as needed, I think that is the ultimate testimony for reliability..... but as you arent going to be in battle so i think its up to preference.

stphnman20
09-21-2008, 10:07 PM
I had both Aimpoint and EOtech when I was in the sand box.. lets just say I would bet my life with an Aimpoint.....

Juicymeat
09-21-2008, 10:08 PM
The only downside I've seen with EOTech's is battery life. Some say it's easier to pick up the dot for an EOTech, some say it's easier for an Aimpoint. Test both out for yourself at a shop and go with whichever you feel most comfortable with.

As for me, I went with an Aimpoint after shopping around. Simplicity and longevity of batteries was the selling point as I picked up both dots equally fast.

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
09-21-2008, 10:10 PM
btw
stphnman20 , thank you for serving! I am forever grateful

also im not doubting the aimpoint for one minute, as I know it is a extremely popular optice, on account of its reliability.
Im just saying what he had told me, the guys that rolled up with one syllable names like "mike" "john" "bob", who had hk416's and computers integrated in their gear, rocking beards, rollin in bmw's white vans, and on occasion little birds, all seemed to use the eotech, not saying its the best, not saying its better than aimpoint, just relayin a story :)

Saigon1965
09-21-2008, 10:13 PM
Aimpoint - In certain condition Eotech washes out.

stphnman20
09-21-2008, 10:14 PM
btw
stphnman20 , thank you for serving! I am forever grateful
No problem.. :D

NiteQwill
09-21-2008, 10:15 PM
Aimpoint all the way. I've seen moderate to severe abuse break EOtechs in real life.

BlackRifle313
09-21-2008, 10:16 PM
Aimpoint - In certain condition Eotech washes out.

do you mean the reticle or just in general? and how so?

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
09-21-2008, 10:16 PM
also im not doubting the aimpoint for one minute, as I know it is a extremely popular optice, on account of its reliability.
Im just saying what he had told me, the guys that rolled up with one syllable names like "mike" "john" "bob", who had hk416's and computers integrated in their gear, rocking beards, rollin in bmw's white vans, and on occasion little birds, all seemed to use the eotech, not saying its the best, not saying its better than aimpoint, just relayin a story :)

wtf... sorry double post wierdness.....

NiteQwill
09-21-2008, 10:21 PM
also im not doubting the aimpoint for one minute, as I know it is a extremely popular optice, on account of its reliability.
Im just saying what he had told me, the guys that rolled up with one syllable names like "mike" "john" "bob", who had hk416's and computers integrated in their gear, rocking beards, rollin in bmw's white vans, and on occasion little birds, all seemed to use the eotech, not saying its the best, not saying its better than aimpoint, just relayin a story :)

wtf... sorry double post wierdness.....
edit: Sounds like Blackwater or Sphynx. 'Cuz we all know, no bearded guys rolled in bimmers, they were uparmored Toyota land cruisers ;) Even the special community can't roll THAT good. :D

All the 'cool guys' I worked with personally had ACOGs. My rifle had an Aimpoint (yea, so I'm biased ;) ) I only saw a handful of EOtechs during my time and 3 of them were broken.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x182/trainerKEN/acu.jpg

stphnman20
09-21-2008, 10:22 PM
also im not doubting the aimpoint for one minute, as I know it is a extremely popular optice, on account of its reliability.
Im just saying what he had told me, the guys that rolled up with one syllable names like "mike" "john" "bob", who had hk416's and computers integrated in their gear, rocking beards, rollin in bmw's white vans, and on occasion little birds, all seemed to use the eotech, not saying its the best, not saying its better than aimpoint, just relayin a story :)

wtf... sorry double post wierdness.....

I know exactly who he is talking about.. Those "guys" are giving certain things on that contract.. Thats why they all have the 416 top with an EOtech..

stockplayer
09-21-2008, 10:27 PM
edit: Sounds like Blackwater or Sphynx. 'Cuz we all know, no bearded guys rolled in bimmers, they were uparmored Toyota land cruisers ;) Even the special community can't roll THAT good. :D

All the 'cool guys' I worked with personally had ACOGs. My rifle had an Aimpoint (yea, so I'm biased ;) ) I only saw a handful of EOtechs during my time and 3 of them were broken.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x182/trainerKEN/acu.jpg


I think that soldier (or sailor), is the Navy seal that jumped on a grenade to save his buddies. Wow what an American!

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
09-21-2008, 10:29 PM
that looks like army acu to me.......

stphnman20
09-21-2008, 10:35 PM
Yes they are Army..

NiteQwill
09-21-2008, 10:41 PM
that looks like army acu to me.......

Yup. But just FWIW, since our mission was joint task force, we had navy and air force docs assigned to us wear ACUs since it was an Army op. The only way to tell was looking at the left name tape.

The guys pictured are a combo of some Ranger, Airforce (CTTs), and SF folk in case anyone is wondering.

Pryde
09-21-2008, 11:30 PM
As of earlier this year, the EOtech have been pulled from SOCOM inventory due to reliability problems. Those "cool dudes" are probably all rockin' aimpoints or acogs now.

localguy
09-21-2008, 11:46 PM
I think that soldier (or sailor), is the Navy seal that jumped on a grenade to save his buddies. Wow what an American!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Monsoor

R.I.P.

redcliff
09-21-2008, 11:57 PM
For range shooting at less than 100 yards I prefer Eotechs. If I had to bet my life on one I'd use an Aimpoint. Anything over 100yards I prefer ACOGS.

aplinker
09-22-2008, 12:50 AM
I once said EOTech to this question, but I can't anymore. I've had issues with EOTechs and have talked with others that have had the same. I wouldn't put my trust in an EOTech.

If you're thinking 3-gun, I wouldn't do either. I'd get something like the Accupoint, K-Dot, etc. Few people run dot optics.

I'm really disappointed with what's been happening with EOTechs. I actually prefer the reticle (as do many), but if it can't be trusted, it's got to go. :(

5968
09-22-2008, 1:21 AM
I have used both, but I still own my Aimpoint.

sb_pete
09-22-2008, 1:50 AM
Well, if money's not the issue, how 'bout a Doctor optic on top of an ACOG?:chris:

nikonuser
09-22-2008, 6:42 AM
You have more brightness control on Eotech and 1 MOA dot. I own a ML2 Aimpoint with 2 MOA and I prefer smaller dot so I like my Eotech better for longer distance.

aplinker
09-22-2008, 7:04 AM
You have more brightness control on Eotech and 1 MOA dot. I own a ML2 Aimpoint with 2 MOA and I prefer smaller dot so I like my Eotech better for longer distance.

New Aimpoints have more brightness control. 2MOA vs. 1 is really a moot argument unless you're using a magnifier. 6" vs. 12" dot at 600yds still looks like a teeny tiny dot. It's near impossible to tell the difference - and you have to hold over anyways.

aplinker
09-22-2008, 7:04 AM
Well, if money's not the issue, how 'bout a Doctor optic on top of an ACOG?:chris:

Two optics = open class for 3-gun

sb_pete
09-22-2008, 12:22 PM
Two optics = open class for 3-gun

Ah, forgot about that factor...

CRTguns
09-22-2008, 1:27 PM
Aimpioint- even if it's dead, can still offer a "tube" to aim thru, making hits possible. The EO does not let you line up a shot w/o a reticule turned on.

BUT,

Eotech has a larger, less ocluded picture and brighter reticule, makes your eye work less.

maxicon
09-22-2008, 2:12 PM
I prefer the Eotech reticle, and my 552 Rev F has been good. I've never had the reticle wash out in any conditions, including very bright sunlight. It's fast and intuitive, with a great FOV, and has been very reliable.

That said, the quality control on recent Eotechs has been declining, and there have been a disturbing number of problem reports on them. It would be hard to recommend one for important use.

Beside the battery life, the Eotech controls are trickier to use in difficult or hurried situations, especially with gloves. There's a lot to be said for an simple optic with a simple control that you can just leave on for years.

If I were buying new optics for a SHTF gun, I'd probably opt for an Aimpoint T1 Micro. I'd put a BUIS on it too, since anything can fail.

brando
09-22-2008, 3:05 PM
We need to sticky this topic at some point as it is about the most common optic debate by far. For the record, here's my take:

I used the old Aimpoint 1000 back in the day, mounted on top of the carry handle of my CAR-15. Great tool at the time. Later around 2000 I used the CompML, which was a nice update on a proven optic. For close-in work, red dot sights just own, especially if you train specifically with them.

The first sign of trouble was engaging 200-400m targets. The 4MOA dot was just too large and often obscured the target which equated to a wider pattern. I did tests where I went back to iron sights and the same engagements resulted in much better performance, however I was much slower acquiring my sights up close and therefore slower engaging. That's the beauty of an RDS - fast acquisition of the sight at close range.

At one point around 2001 I tried an EOTech on recommendation from a buddy who shoots 50,000+ rounds a year. Not only was my sight acquisition as fast, if not faster, but I found that for those 200-400m engagements I could be VERY precise. As a test, I taped a cigarette vertically to a target stand. Starting at 10m I tried hitting it with the Aimpoint CompML and then the EOTech, moving out to 35m each time the cigarette was hit. The only hits I got were using the EOTech. So I was sold on it.

While in Iraq I found the EOTech excellent for a variety of roles, but was particularly fond of its holographic nature which didn't require a consistent or proper cheeck/stockweld. I was able to shoot from some weird position and make hits as long as I could see the reticle. However, the biggest problem I was having with it was the battery life. Switching to the AA model was a big help, but still it didn't have the battery life I had hoped for, so I couldn't just leave it on. On top of that, since I had to constantly turn it on and off I found it awkward where the buttons were placed, the sequence required to turn them off as well as the lack of a "memory" for the brightness setting. Rolling out of the wire it took a few seconds to get my EOTech up while an Aimpoint would have taken about a second at most.

Later, another problem started showing up in my EOTechs: a few times they shut-off during mid-recoil. Very VERY bad, though it made for good BUIS training ;)

Last year I picked up an Aimpoint Micro T-1 and everything changed for me. I still LOVE my EOTechs, but I have lost faith in them (which really sucks). The T-1 is lighter and more compact than the EOTech and it has a much smaller dot. I did the cigarette drill again and the Micro did just fine but it has the added benefit of incredible battery life. I just leave it on, that's all.

Now if I could have a T-1 with an EOTech 65/1 reticle I'd be a happy, happy man.

tenbrook
09-22-2008, 6:04 PM
New Aimpoints have more brightness control.

I am getting ready to order an aimpoint ML3 2 MOA. How can I tell if its the older or newer version? Are there different Model #'s?

Thanks

I was going to order from these guys......here is the link......Is this the newer or older version?

http://www.manventureoutpost.com/outdoor/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8125

edittman1
09-22-2008, 6:04 PM
We need to sticky this topic at some point as it is about the most common optic debate by far. For the record, here's my take:

I used the old Aimpoint 1000 back in the day, mounted on top of the carry handle of my CAR-15. Great tool at the time. Later around 2000 I used the CompML, which was a nice update on a proven optic. For close-in work, red dot sights just own, especially if you train specifically with them.

The first sign of trouble was engaging 200-400m targets. The 4MOA dot was just too large and often obscured the target which equated to a wider pattern. I did tests where I went back to iron sights and the same engagements resulted in much better performance, however I was much slower acquiring my sights up close and therefore slower engaging. That's the beauty of an RDS - fast acquisition of the sight at close range.

At one point around 2001 I tried an EOTech on recommendation from a buddy who shoots 50,000+ rounds a year. Not only was my sight acquisition as fast, if not faster, but I found that for those 200-400m engagements I could be VERY precise. As a test, I taped a cigarette vertically to a target stand. Starting at 10m I tried hitting it with the Aimpoint CompML and then the EOTech, moving out to 35m each time the cigarette was hit. The only hits I got were using the EOTech. So I was sold on it.

While in Iraq I found the EOTech excellent for a variety of roles, but was particularly fond of its holographic nature which didn't require a consistent or proper cheeck/stockweld. I was able to shoot from some weird position and make hits as long as I could see the reticle. However, the biggest problem I was having with it was the battery life. Switching to the AA model was a big help, but still it didn't have the battery life I had hoped for, so I couldn't just leave it on. On top of that, since I had to constantly turn it on and off I found it awkward where the buttons were placed, the sequence required to turn them off as well as the lack of a "memory" for the brightness setting. Rolling out of the wire it took a few seconds to get my EOTech up while an Aimpoint would have taken about a second at most.

Later, another problem started showing up in my EOTechs: a few times they shut-off during mid-recoil. Very VERY bad, though it made for good BUIS training ;)

Last year I picked up an Aimpoint Micro T-1 and everything changed for me. I still LOVE my EOTechs, but I have lost faith in them (which really sucks). The T-1 is lighter and more compact than the EOTech and it has a much smaller dot. I did the cigarette drill again and the Micro did just fine but it has the added benefit of incredible battery life. I just leave it on, that's all.

Now if I could have a T-1 with an EOTech 65/1 reticle I'd be a happy, happy man.

You've got to be kidding me? You're criteria is hitting a cigarette at 35m? I'd like to see video of this with EITHER optic.

My undestanding is that the idea of the Aimpoint is to acquire and engage an object quickly and within reasonable accuracy. I don't know how big your target at 200-400 meters was, but if it was at least 1'x1' I'd feel very confident with an Aimpoint. In fact, I hit my 4"x4" shoot n C every time at 100 yards. All I do is cover the black circle with the dot and it's a given.

The Comp M4 also has the ability to adjust the size of the red-dot, so I can make it smaller if I want to improve precision of shots.

The one thing I don't understand about the EOTech, is if it can be shot from any eye angle and still produce the same result. From what I can tell on my Aimpoint, wherever the dot is, is where the rifle is shooting. I like that flexibility to be honest.

BlackRifle313
09-22-2008, 7:17 PM
does anyone know a gun store that has aimpoint comp m4s that I could take a look at? never actually seen one in person. I'm in the El Cerrito/bay area.

NiteQwill
09-22-2008, 11:12 PM
I am getting ready to order an aimpoint ML3 2 MOA. How can I tell if its the older or newer version? Are there different Model #'s?

Thanks

I was going to order from these guys......here is the link......Is this the newer or older version?

http://www.manventureoutpost.com/outdoor/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8125

The new ML3 should have the longer battery life and black rubber covering standard.

You've got to be kidding me? You're criteria is hitting a cigarette at 35m? I'd like to see video of this with EITHER optic.

My undestanding is that the idea of the Aimpoint is to acquire and engage an object quickly and within reasonable accuracy. I don't know how big your target at 200-400 meters was, but if it was at least 1'x1' I'd feel very confident with an Aimpoint. In fact, I hit my 4"x4" shoot n C every time at 100 yards. All I do is cover the black circle with the dot and it's a given.

The Comp M4 also has the ability to adjust the size of the red-dot, so I can make it smaller if I want to improve precision of shots.

The one thing I don't understand about the EOTech, is if it can be shot from any eye angle and still produce the same result. From what I can tell on my Aimpoint, wherever the dot is, is where the rifle is shooting. I like that flexibility to be honest.
I think what brando was getting at was that each optic has different criteria for use. Overall, the Aimpoint is recommended for durability and reliability, the two most important criteria for a battle rifle.

In choosing, if you're life depends on it, it's better to select a 4 MOA optic that is 99.9% reliable than a 1 MOA optic that is give-or-take-maybe-on-a-full-moon-when-the-wolves-are-hiding. ;)

StraightShooter
09-22-2008, 11:16 PM
Just curious, why do you want the m4? Th m2 or ml2 is an excellent optic with outstanding battery life. If you arent going to be killing people or using nightvision i would say you could save a heck of a lot of money by going with an m2/ml2.

my .02 FWIW

Not to mention that for 3 gun, neither the aimpoint nor the eotech would be my first choice.

Pryde
09-22-2008, 11:40 PM
The one thing I don't understand about the EOTech, is if it can be shot from any eye angle and still produce the same result. From what I can tell on my Aimpoint, wherever the dot is, is where the rifle is shooting. I like that flexibility to be honest.

I think you have Brando confused.

You're talking about parallax, Brando is talking about the fact that the EOtech allows you to see the dot at a wider angle due to the shorter length of the tube. You can have a really crappy stockweld and still see the dot in the window on the EOtech, you need to pretty close to inline of the bore to see the aimpoint dot. Your head can not even be on the stock and you will still be likely to see the reticle due to the wider field of view and shallower tube.

This really only matters if you are shooting from positions like rollover prone or shooting under a vehicle where it may be difficult to acquire a decent stockweld. If you are shooting from traditional positions, none of this should matter.

Some people feel the M4 is better because it can take AAs.

Rich776
09-23-2008, 12:05 AM
I have the M4s and it is very accurate and reliable. Haven't had a Eotech to compare it to yet.

Toolbox X
09-23-2008, 9:13 AM
IMHO, the answer to this question is simple. It comes down to personal preference. Both optics are fantastic. Personally I like the look and controls of the Aimpoint a lot more than the EOTech.

Also, I really do NOT like the look of the Aimpoint M4. There is something about it that just doesn't flow. The features are cool, but the look just bothers me and the cost is way to high.

My favorite Aimpoint is the ML3 with 2MOA dot, and LaRue mount. Make sure you figure out the correct height of the mount. For instance, a SOPMOD stock lowers my line of sight a 1/4" or so compared to a normal telescoping stock. I need a higher mount for my Aimpoint if I use a normal stock and I need a lower mount if I use my SOPMOD. The A.R.M.S. mount has risers you can put in to adjust height. Also, the Aimpoint M4 does come with a mount which is a huge plus, and I believe it is height adjustable as well.

The battery life of the Aimpoint ML3 series is amazing. You can literally never turn it off and at 80% brightness power it should run for almost 6 years. That being said, getting extra Aimpoint batteries has always been an expensive pain the *** for me. Until I found them on Ebay super cheap. Just search for "Duracell DL1/3N" and you can get them for less than $2 each. I bought 10 and they are the real deal. Much better than $5-8 each like you pay at a tactical store.

dilligaffrn
09-23-2008, 10:24 AM
Aimpoint!

Nuff said.

brando
09-23-2008, 10:45 AM
You're talking about parallax, Brando is talking about the fact that the EOtech allows you to see the dot at a wider angle due to the shorter length of the tube.

It's more than just the wider FOV, it's also the nature of a holographic reticle. In the Aimpoint it's a reflection, but a hologram has the advantage of maintaining position regardless of your viewing angle of incidence. It's a minor thing in comparison, but I'm telling you, you'd be surprised out useful it was.

On the Comp M4, that's good you can adjust the dot. My post was telling a story from my experience over a roughly 15 year period and at the time the most advanced Aimpoint I was using was a CompML and later the T-1.

edittman1
09-23-2008, 10:55 AM
Fair enough. I haven't really shot the EOTech enough to be super knowledgable on the differences between the two. But the Aimpoint does everything I need it to and works well out to around 400 yards. Granted it is ideal from 1-200 yards. Acog takes over bragging rights for 200-600 yard targets. I'd really like to try one of the ACOG 4x's with the Dr Optic on top. I wonder if that combo is a nice hybrid setup for 1-600 yards. The Dr Optic sure is mounted high up there..

I am going to try shooting a cig though. That sounds fun. :D

Also, if you look on AR15.com deals are easy to find for the Comp M4. My friend just picked one up for $500 shipped NIB with mount.

brando
09-23-2008, 11:03 AM
I've got a T-1, which I mentioned in my initial post is my current favorite. I just prefer the EOTech reticle. Not trying to have a competition here, but I've got a lot of years behind both sights and wanted to offer my take on it. FWIW, the ACOG from my perspective (the issue NSN model) is really best used in a fixed defensive position where you're almost exclusively engaging at distance and can make good use of the BDC reticle. The Doctor or JPoint combo is neat, but delicate. Bang up against a wall or an 1114 door and it's busted. LaRue, however, makes a version that is shielded.

whatever
09-23-2008, 11:57 AM
I like the Aimpoint. The EO tech is too bulky.

aileron
09-23-2008, 12:06 PM
The guys pictured are a combo of some Ranger, Airforce (CTTs), and SF folk in case anyone is wondering.

Can you tell me what kind of rifle the second guy is using?

huck
09-23-2008, 12:08 PM
What about the Zeiss Z-point? Where does it fit in this conversation?

brando
09-23-2008, 12:11 PM
The guy in front has a Mk46 and the guy on the right has an EBR M14.

technique
09-23-2008, 1:25 PM
Aimpoint!

dwa
09-23-2008, 5:04 PM
What about the Zeiss Z-point? Where does it fit in this conversation?

i am curious about this z point you speak of.