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View Full Version : P.O.F. handguards?


a1fabweld
09-19-2008, 8:08 PM
Any experience with the P.O.F. railed handguards? Good or bad?

aplinker
09-20-2008, 1:01 PM
they are the suck.

Poor attachment system.

Height above the receiver destroys proper cheek weld.

Can't cowitness with standard optics.

Heavy.

Why would you want one?

a1fabweld
09-20-2008, 2:47 PM
Because I like the idea, as far as strength in concerned, to piggyback the entire length of the upper. If the top rail is one piece from start to finish, how could it not co-witness with rail mounted sights? I've never seen one in person so I'm asking you guys who have. Also, any feedback on complete POF piston uppers? I'm kicking around the idea of another .223/5.56 between a Vector V-93 or a piston AR. I know the Vector mags ar $$$, but I like the platform.

aplinker
09-21-2008, 1:34 PM
I did own a POF.

If you did a complete lo-pro it would cowitness. You couldn't use a gas block sight or non-full length rail if you wanted it. Extra rail = extra weight.

They're fat rails. They're heavy. The connection to the barrel nut, and even the upper, uses set screw tension - a silly design.

POF is a poorly implemented piston, the biggest issue being carrier hammering.

There really are better products to spend your money on.

If you like the idea of extra strength in a rail top that doesn't need it, go for it.

If you must have a piston, the PWS system is probably the best designed retrofit, while the LWRC is still considered top dog. Addax is probably the best source if you want it in a non-forever time frame.

Unless you run tiny carbines (<14.5") and shoot thousands of rounds a week, it's not necessary. It doesn't solve anything in longer rifles and has the potential for causing other issues.

If you want a piston rifle, there's also the SIG556.

Because I like the idea, as far as strength in concerned, to piggyback the entire length of the upper. If the top rail is one piece from start to finish, how could it not co-witness with rail mounted sights? I've never seen one in person so I'm asking you guys who have. Also, any feedback on complete POF piston uppers? I'm kicking around the idea of another .223/5.56 between a Vector V-93 or a piston AR. I know the Vector mags ar $$$, but I like the platform.

a1fabweld
09-21-2008, 2:30 PM
If you like the idea of extra strength in a rail top that doesn't need it, go for it.

My reasoning here is that as much as I like my Troy handguard, I'm a little concerned about the clamp on style rails like the Troy, MI, Samson, etc... staying put. The Troy handguard was factory installed @ CMMG with my upper & from what I can tell, It was installed correctly. After shooting a while it loosened up slightly. As I removed it, the screws were pretty tight with loctite still holding them. I reinstalled it with more loctite but now I have doubts that it'll loosen up again. That's why my interest in the POF rail.

Addax
09-21-2008, 5:02 PM
The POF Rail (aka Preadator Rail) is Big, Bulky, Heavy and Ugly.

You do not gain anything with using this rail.

Almost every POF upper owner I have spoken to complains about the bulky, heavy, tall rail profile the POF/Predator Rail is.

There is a reason POF uses this rail, and it is not because it is a cool rail...

They use a very large barrel nut-heat sink in order to stiffen the barrel due to The POF Gas piston system design.

The POF Gas Piston System exerts so much pressure and energy to drive the large piston, that their system causes excessive piston push on the barrel, which causes all sorts of problems for POF, so in order to help correct this issue, they had to utilize a very large and heavier barrel nut, in order to help keep the barrel stable and stiff, thus helping to address their system design issue.

Vinz
09-21-2008, 6:52 PM
I agree, they are very heavy and cumbersome.

If you like full flowing top rails look at the Daniel Defense lite rail system. Nice piece.
If you are looking for a gas piston design look into the PWS system used in the GPU...link in above post.


vinz

Addax
09-21-2008, 7:56 PM
If you are looking for a gas piston design look into the PWS system used in the GPU...link in above post.

vinz

Thanks Vinz,:)

We have a new Addax GPU webpage up now.

http://www.addaxgpu.com (http://www.addaxgpu.com/)

This Webpage gives more info. about our new uppers we are building.

Thanks,

Chris

Vinz
09-21-2008, 8:17 PM
Thanks Vinz,:)

We have a new Addax GPU webpage up now.

www.addaxgpu.com (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/www.addaxgpu.com)

This Webpage gives more info. about our new uppers we are building.

Thanks,

Chris
so new its still unopened. LOL link no work.

j/k...I noticed some of the new stuff...like the side charger upper?? Would have been nice to know 5 weeks ago. ;)

vinz

a1fabweld
09-21-2008, 8:52 PM
Chris (Addax), do you offer a low profile gas block that fits under a standard type rail? If not now, are there any plans in the future for one if it's possible to even do with your design? Thanks.

Addax
09-21-2008, 9:20 PM
so new its still unopened. LOL link no work.

j/k...I noticed some of the new stuff...like the side charger upper?? Would have been nice to know 5 weeks ago. ;)

vinz

Try it now, I fixed it. :D

Addax
09-21-2008, 10:34 PM
Chris (Addax), do you offer a low profile gas block that fits under a standard type rail? If not now, are there any plans in the future for one if it's possible to even do with your design? Thanks.

Not with the current design from PWS.

The Gas Piston Gas Block we use (PWS System) is already rail height.

The Gas Block and Gas Piston Tube design will not allow it to be mounted under a normal height rail, and we do not want to use that big bulky POF/Predator Rail.

We are using the DD Lite Rails (9.5 FSP for Carbines and 12.0 FSPM for Mid-Lengths) so the Gas Block sits inside the Front Sight Post cut outs and gives extra rail length on the sides and bottom.

This is how the gas block mounts in our uppers using the DD Lite Rail (example given is the Combat Carbine model using the DD Lite 9.5 FSP Rail)

Carbine with DD Lite 9.5 FSP
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0009-2.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0012-2.jpg

aplinker
09-22-2008, 12:27 AM
OP: Keep in mind the traditional handguards do exactly the same thing as the current design of rails - put the flex on the delta ring/barrel nut. There is a small amount of pressure on the forward attachment/barrel, but it's a fraction of the barrel nut.

If the current free-float rail design were really a big issue you'd hear about it across the board. Many tens of thousands of those rails are in current use.


Not with the current design from PWS.

The Gas Piston Gas Block we use (PWS System) is already rail height.

The Gas Block and Gas Piston Tube design will not allow it to be mounted under a normal height rail, and we do not want to use that big bulky POF/Predator Rail.

We are using the DD Lite Rails (9.5 FSP for Carbines and 12.0 FSPM for Mid-Lengths) so the Gas Block sits inside the Front Sight Post cut outs and gives extra rail length on the sides and bottom.

This is how the gas block mounts in our uppers using the DD Lite Rail (example given is the Combat Carbine model using the DD Lite 9.5 FSP Rail)

Carbine with DD Lite 9.5 FSP


In some ways, the sight on the barrel (gas block) is a better design, as any small amount of flex on the rail isn't transitioned to the sight. It's making the best of the design, IMHO - something that PWS and others do right. I don't see any reason, though, that PWS couldn't cut down their gas block in the future to be lo-pro. The DD FSP rails are very nice, and a good way to implement it. :)

Addax
09-22-2008, 10:32 AM
OP: Keep in mind the traditional handguards do exactly the same thing as the current design of rails - put the flex on the delta ring/barrel nut. There is a small amount of pressure on the forward attachment/barrel, but it's a fraction of the barrel nut.

If the current free-float rail design were really a big issue you'd hear about it across the board. Many tens of thousands of those rails are in current use.




In some ways, the sight on the barrel (gas block) is a better design, as any small amount of flex on the rail isn't transitioned to the sight. It's making the best of the design, IMHO - something that PWS and others do right. I don't see any reason, though, that PWS couldn't cut down their gas block in the future to be lo-pro. The DD FSP rails are very nice, and a good way to implement it. :)

I have already explored the ideas with PWS, the shoulder of the Gas Block will not fit under the rail.

I am currently looking at designing a new system... ;)

a1fabweld
09-22-2008, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the insight fellas. I think I'll go with the Daniel defense 12" or 14" lite rail if my Troy handguard doesn't stay put. Thanks again.

Vinz
09-22-2008, 12:03 PM
put that Troy's rail up for sale here....it will go fast.

gimmi a heads up first...;)
vinz

a1fabweld
09-22-2008, 1:50 PM
put that Troy's rail up for sale here....it will go fast.

gimmi a heads up first...;)
vinz

I may sell my DD 9.0 Lite-Rail on my other gun to replace it with a longer one? You interested? It's flawless!

Vinz
09-22-2008, 2:00 PM
Yow, PM sent, Thanks.

Now back to your regular scheduled program.


Vinz