SAC PD "UOC MEMO" is circulating

[Ironchef]

I was in a meeting last night at the Contra Costa County Sheriff's ARC Team (which I'm a part of) and among the first announcements before getting to business (after reading the official events surrounding the death of MPD's Sgt Starzyk last week), our Lt. started saying, "It turns out that in Sacramento, there's a group who are out to get the cops by wearing guns in restaurants, then calling the cops, video taping them, and trying to get them to make false arrests so they can sue the city for lots of money." What's more is he said it angrily and with a tone much more aggressive than the memo itself.

As I heard him start mentioning it and passing around a copy of the memo, I realized he was talking about one of the open carry groups in Sacramento and the SAC PD cheif's memo that we saw here a couple months ago. As nervous as I was to speak up, I interrupted the ordeal by saying something along the lines of, "Actually sir, I'm in association with that group and I'm aware of their true objectives and trapping cops is definitely not one of them. They are somewhat of an activist group who just have get togethers once in a while exercising their rights to be armed..even if unloaded. They bring the cameras for their own protection because they fear unjust handling by not-so-well-versed LEOs. This is why they contacted the SAC PD chief with all the pertinent code and case law citations and their intention to UOC..."

Then the discussion turned towards the actual codes because my Lt and another member of our group were confused about "the proximity law" regarding where loaded mags can be if you're carrying. And without skipping a beat, I let them know there's no code whatsoever regarding proximity..but explained there was an enhancement law regarding carrying a loaded mag, with or without a gun, for gang members that might be considered carrying a loaded gun.

I then, without reading any citations, was able to inform the group by citing 12025 (f), then using Clark with 12031 to discuss what loaded is, explained the school zone and gov't building restrictions, and then shared the OC pamphlet I happened to have in my bag.

While stressful, it was exhilerating to hopefully educate this group who would have otherwise been left hating on some "gun nuts" in Sacramento trying to entrap cops.

So yeah, anyway....CCC SO is definitely circulating the memo. And even though I discussed UOC in Antioch with one of the PD Chief's staff there, and he was cool with it, I can guess they already got a copy since a) the staff member was completely savvy on the citations I gave him right out of the pamphlet, and b) I haven't received an official letter back from the Chief after I had asked him for his written acknowledgment of the lawfulness of UOC and his department's procedures handling "MWG" calls.

[saigon1965]

Nice work Ironchef -

[bwiese]

There is another memo with similar content circulating now as well.

This is from the California Anti-Terrorism Training Center; the memo seems to be pretty close to the orig Sac PD UOC memo but I don't think there is wording surrounding "attempting to entrap cops in video" in this new memo.

We'll try to find out more, it's being distributed statewide under a "Confidential /LE only" banner. May just have to PRAR it.

[6172crew]

I was in a meeting last night at the Contra Costa County Sheriff's ARC Team (which I'm a part of) and among the first announcements before getting to business (after reading the official events surrounding the death of MPD's Sgt Starzyk last week), our Lt. started saying, "It turns out that in Sacramento, there's a group who are out to get the cops by wearing guns in restaurants, then calling the cops, video taping them, and trying to get them to make false arrests so they can sue the city for lots of money." What's more is he said it angrily and with a tone much more aggressive than the memo itself.

As I heard him start mentioning it and passing around a copy of the memo, I realized he was talking about one of the open carry groups in Sacramento and the SAC PD cheif's memo that we saw here a couple months ago. As nervous as I was to speak up, I interrupted the ordeal by saying something along the lines of, "Actually sir, I'm in association with that group and I'm aware of their true objectives and trapping cops is definitely not one of them. They are somewhat of an activist group who just have get togethers once in a while exercising their rights to be armed..even if unloaded. They bring the cameras for their own protection because they fear unjust handling by not-so-well-versed LEOs. This is why they contacted the SAC PD chief with all the pertinent code and case law citations and their intention to UOC..."

Then the discussion turned towards the actual codes because my Lt and another member of our group were confused about "the proximity law" regarding where loaded mags can be if you're carrying. And without skipping a beat, I let them know there's no code whatsoever regarding proximity..but explained there was an enhancement law regarding carrying a loaded mag, with or without a gun, for gang members that might be considered carrying a loaded gun.

I then, without reading any citations, was able to inform the group by citing 12025 (f), then using Clark with 12031 to discuss what loaded is, explained the school zone and gov't building restrictions, and then shared the OC pamphlet I happened to have in my bag.

While stressful, it was exhilerating to hopefully educate this group who would have otherwise been left hating on some "gun nuts" in Sacramento trying to entrap cops.

So yeah, anyway....CCC SO is definitely circulating the memo. And even though I discussed UOC in Antioch with one of the PD Chief's staff there, and he was cool with it, I can guess they already got a copy since a) the staff member was completely savvy on the citations I gave him right out of the pamphlet, and b) I haven't received an official letter back from the Chief after I had asked him for his written acknowledgment of the lawfulness of UOC and his department's procedures handling "MWG" calls.

Nice!:)

[MudCamper]

WTG Ironchef.

For those that don't know what SPD Memo Ironchef is refering to, see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=111324

And here's a new version of it that's now circulating: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=1536915

[Fate]

Nice work. Dispelling misinformation is not an easy task!

[PatriotnMore]

Wow, first, I know that must have taken some balls to step up like that in front of everyone, so thank you! Second, glad the topic of legality came up, so everyone would benefit from the facts.

I commend you for standing out among your peers.

[Ironchef]

lol, yeah, we'll see if I"m still on the team after a few more days. The good Lt was a little flustered it seems. We toured the dispatch center after that meeting for our "training" (which was awesome)..just wish I had slipped some UOC pamphlets into their workstations as we walked and asked questions! lol An upcoming "training" will be a tour of the coroner which can include an autopsy...not sure where to put the pamphlets there...

[PatriotnMore]

lol, yeah, we'll see if I"m still on the team after a few more days. The good Lt was a little flustered it seems. We toured the dispatch center after that meeting for our "training" (which was awesome)..just wish I had slipped some UOC pamphlets into their workstations as we walked and asked questions! lol An upcoming "training" will be a tour of the coroner which can include an autopsy...not sure where to put the pamphlets there...

Well, if its worth anything, your stock as a Patriot, stand up guy, and the type of LEO I want to see wearing uniform, just shot up in value.
Again, thank you!

[Hopi]

Well Done!

[JDoe]

Wow, thank you Ironchef for shedding some light on the open carry movement for LE.

[Massafeff]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii316/imuman/12170979126uquaVl.jpg
HIGH FIVE :)

[Ironchef]

Well, if its worth anything, your stock as a Patriot, stand up guy, and the type of LEO I want to see wearing uniform, just shot up in value.
Again, thank you!

I appreciate it, but your praise may be misdirected as I'm no LEO (physically unable to try out), just a volunteer radio man..but I do have a uniform! (I'll also keep my presidential candidate selection quiet too...)

[PatriotnMore]

I appreciate it, but your praise may be misdirected as I'm no LEO (physically unable to try out), just a volunteer radio man..but I do have a uniform! (I'll also keep my presidential candidate selection quiet too...)

Sorry about your physicall inability to try out, and its too bad also, independent thinking, freedom loving, defenders of the Constitution are the types of LEO's we should be employing. In any event, keep fighting the good fight.

[aileron]

Good Job!!! BTW, whats ARC?

[Ironchef]

Amateur Radio Communication (http://www.co.contra-costa.ca.us/index.asp?NID=263)s (team).

In this county, if you're in ARC, you're also in RACES which is a similar group that coordinates more with FEMA's outline for emergency communications. We do things like SAR communications, statewide and even national call ups for disasters and such. Fun stuff. This weekend we're supervising a south county CERT group's radio test and we'll be activating the sheriff's OES system to coordinate with it. I'm not sure what that all entails, but it should be fun! lol

[Liberty1]

Amateur Radio Communication (http://www.co.contra-costa.ca.us/index.asp?NID=263)s (team).


Thanks for standing up for the truth!!! I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall watching the Lt.'s face during your presentation! Well at least they can't demote you for talking about the briefing. And you work for free so I doubt they'll fire you.

Tell them to come here and check things out.

What's funny is that the internal "memos" and "alerts" are months late and dollars short as the one and only (so far) Sac. unloaded open carry dinner was completed successfully April 12th (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/9588-1.html).

[tombinghamthegreat]

Good job.

[bwiese]

Good one, Ironchef.

Thanks for standing up.

[Ironchef]

Good one, Ironchef.

Thanks for standing up.

Thanks to you for posting that first memo (and this new one is good to see also!)! Without it, and the efforts of mudcamper and many others tantalizing me with their tales of UOC, I'd never known any better. I'd be a master of FUD without this site and the activist efforts of you all.

And while waiting for incorporation and favorable legislation changes to carry (like removal of 12031), I'm weary of even mentioning things so as to avoid too much attention or "the wrong" attention it could have causing a negative effect on the movement. SO let's hope these memos are not stirring the wrong pots of 2A destruction, eh?

[CA_Libertarian]

Thank you, sir, for your courage. It's not easy to stand up like that. You did a lot of good for the open carry movement by dispelling the rumors that are circulating. At least one department is now a bit wiser.

[Liberty1]

At least one department is now a bit wiser.

hay you're famous! can i have your autograph?

[journeyman]

Well, if its worth anything, your stock as a Patriot, stand up guy, and the type of LEO I want to see wearing uniform, just shot up in value.
Again, thank you!

++1:)

[rayra]

Excellent. Well done sir. For bonus points you should approach the Lt's supervisor and command staff to ensure that they too are aware of the misinformation being circulated. And to prevent the almost certain retributional action the Lt will take against you.

[Ironchef]

Excellent. Well done sir. For bonus points you should approach the Lt's supervisor and command staff to ensure that they too are aware of the misinformation being circulated. And to prevent the almost certain retributional action the Lt will take against you.

I think I'm good where I'm at. I'm too yella to hit the whole office. I can imagine Sheriff Rupf sending a memo to the whole SD explaining how they don't tolerate gun-nuts wearing their uniforms..especially in volunteer capacity! lol

I'm sure I'll have more opportunity to discuss this with my Lt..and probably some of the Sergeants. There is one of us ARC guys who is also a calgunner, though he doesn't post here (lurker), who sadly wasn't there last night. Would have been cool if he was and chimed in saying "I too am a UOCer! ALL HAIL UOCers!"

I do have a SO ride-along coming up. We'll see how that goes! If I get a chatty deputy who is somewhat aligned with our beliefs, I will certainly hit him up to spread our propaganda throughout the department. It's better to infiltrate via a friendship or favorable acquaintance, rather than just cold calling or mailing a document they'll laugh at and toss. Also, if I get written back by the Antioch PD chief, and if it's positive, I'll use that as a supportive precedent when doing the smooth talking! haha

[CA_Libertarian]

hay you're famous! can i have your autograph?

You know... I just do it for the attention!

[ProlificARProspect]

Way to GO Brother,

:hurray:
I was in a meeting last night at the Contra Costa County Sheriff's ARC Team (which I'm a part of) and among the first announcements before getting to business (after reading the official events surrounding the death of MPD's Sgt Starzyk last week), our Lt. started saying, "It turns out that in Sacramento, there's a group who are out to get the cops by wearing guns in restaurants, then calling the cops, video taping them, and trying to get them to make false arrests so they can sue the city for lots of money." What's more is he said it angrily and with a tone much more aggressive than the memo itself.

As I heard him start mentioning it and passing around a copy of the memo, I realized he was talking about one of the open carry groups in Sacramento and the SAC PD cheif's memo that we saw here a couple months ago. As nervous as I was to speak up, I interrupted the ordeal by saying something along the lines of, "Actually sir, I'm in association with that group and I'm aware of their true objectives and trapping cops is definitely not one of them. They are somewhat of an activist group who just have get togethers once in a while exercising their rights to be armed..even if unloaded. They bring the cameras for their own protection because they fear unjust handling by not-so-well-versed LEOs. This is why they contacted the SAC PD chief with all the pertinent code and case law citations and their intention to UOC..."

Then the discussion turned towards the actual codes because my Lt and another member of our group were confused about "the proximity law" regarding where loaded mags can be if you're carrying. And without skipping a beat, I let them know there's no code whatsoever regarding proximity..but explained there was an enhancement law regarding carrying a loaded mag, with or without a gun, for gang members that might be considered carrying a loaded gun.

I then, without reading any citations, was able to inform the group by citing 12025 (f), then using Clark with 12031 to discuss what loaded is, explained the school zone and gov't building restrictions, and then shared the OC pamphlet I happened to have in my bag.

While stressful, it was exhilerating to hopefully educate this group who would have otherwise been left hating on some "gun nuts" in Sacramento trying to entrap cops.

So yeah, anyway....CCC SO is definitely circulating the memo. And even though I discussed UOC in Antioch with one of the PD Chief's staff there, and he was cool with it, I can guess they already got a copy since a) the staff member was completely savvy on the citations I gave him right out of the pamphlet, and b) I haven't received an official letter back from the Chief after I had asked him for his written acknowledgment of the lawfulness of UOC and his department's procedures handling "MWG" calls.

[WokMaster1]

Nice Ironchef..... :D

[Bad Voodoo]

Now that's making an impact! Nice job, IC! :cheers2:

[joeyriv]

<Another echo from the gallery> Nicely done, Ironchef!
It takes some serious gumption to speak out in a meeting like that. Thank you for standing up for us.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I call BS. I think he made the whole thing up as a way to get attention around here because that is what people do on Calguns. They make up crazy stories so we can all talk about how we think it is BS unless we see some video proof of this actual meeting. :rolleyes:

Good job and now some moderator ban me for a couple weeks for being such a tool.

[savageevo]

10% you are too funny, I know where that came from. I wish I could get the whole story from Stan. Hey Stan, I believe you even though I did not see the vid. As for Ironchef, I stand up and applaud you for making your stand. Thanks. Now try to get your whole department to become a member here. They will see that we are NOT some radical terrorist nut jobs.

[rkt88edmo]

Ironchef is teh antiFUD!

[leelaw]

I call BS. I think he made the whole thing up as a way to get attention around here because that is what people do on Calguns. They make up crazy stories so we can all talk about how we think it is BS unless we see some video proof of this actual meeting. :rolleyes:

Good job and now some moderator ban me for a couple weeks for being such a tool.

He didn't mention nailing an uuber hot female Sergeant, or greater rank, behind the station, so I say this one is a bit more believable than most of the stuff here ;)

I've met Ironchef and this story sounds like something I'd expect him to do. He's a stand-up guy.

[N6ATF]

He didn't mention nailing an uuber hot female Sergeant, or greater rank, behind the station, so I say this one is a bit more believable than most of the stuff here ;)

I've met Ironchef and this story sounds like something I'd expect him to do. He's a stand-up guy.

LMFAO @ 10%, and uuber hot female Sergeant? Those really exist? Now are you going to tell me unicorns are real too?

[leelaw]

uuber hot female Sergeant? Those really exist?

I've seen em, and one in particular could kick most all guys' butts. :p

[N6ATF]

:useless:

[Ironchef]

You know....I did forget to mention one piece of the story... You see, there was this one sergeant, and she was hangin' on every word, and well, I hate to kiss and tell, but...

lol (I'm happily married with a lovely wife who I'd never cheat on in a million years..same for my little kiddos..who I'd never betray)

Folks, I appreciate the praise and such, but my real intention was to possibly inpsire others to find opportunities like I had and make the best of them. I've read gobs of way more courageous stories on this forum (ca_lib comes to mind; the guy nabbed coming out of the target; the marine down south, etc) than my piddly story. And it was only a small group...of volunteer radio operators (and some SAR folks).

And 10%! Funny you should say that because I was half tempted to take a picture of the memo in my hand with my LT in the background staring at me but I had just put BBOS4.5 on this new blackberry I got..and well, it was puking on me and not allowing my little 2gb microsd card to work as mass storage...which the camera relies on...etc, etc...and I knew someone would ask for a copy of the memo here (so i was close). Sorry pal, wish I had the proof! :)

[HK fan]

Amateur Radio Communication (http://www.co.contra-costa.ca.us/index.asp?NID=263)s (team).

In this county, if you're in ARC, you're also in RACES which is a similar group that coordinates more with FEMA's outline for emergency communications. We do things like SAR communications, statewide and even national call ups for disasters and such. Fun stuff. This weekend we're supervising a south county CERT group's radio test and we'll be activating the sheriff's OES system to coordinate with it. I'm not sure what that all entails, but it should be fun! lol

Sorry to hear that, I would going to suggest you go over to BOF! You did more in that one briefing in explaining the laws then they have in 7 years!!