Cops Can CCW Anywhere In The US?

[GlocksNBagels]

Someone recently told me cops can CCW anywhere in the country when they're off duty? Is this correct? Is this priviledge only reserved for cops or other city officials as well? Peace officers?

[Doheny]

Someone recently told me cops can CCW anywhere in the country when they're off duty? Is this correct? Is this priviledge only reserved for cops or other city officials as well? Peace officers?

Yes, "qualified law enforcement officers" can carry under HR218. Full time peace officers other than police officers also qualify (arson investigators etc.). If you're listed in the penal code as a peace officer and your duties require you to carry a gun you should be covered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Officers_Safety_Act

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/leosasummary.pdf



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[Waingro]

I want to hear more about this.

[Gshock]

Apparently they can't always carry.

http://sdblacksheep.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/hells-angels-and-iron-pigs-sturgis-shooting/

Members of the Hells Angels appear to have started a bar fight that ended when an off-duty Seattle police detective shot and wounded a biker during the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, the Meade County state’s attorney in South Dakota said Friday.

“The investigation certainly appears to corroborate that version of events,” State’s Attorney Jesse Sondreal said in an e-mail to the Seattle P-I.

A grand jury on Thursday indicted Detective Ron Smith, 43, and Joseph McGuire, 33, a Hells Angel member from California, on aggravated assault charges after hearing from 35 witnesses about the Aug. 9 shooting at the Loud American Roadhouse.

Four others were charged with weapons violations, including a second Seattle police officer and two U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents from Washington.

Smith, who was vacationing with the Iron Pigs, a law enforcement-oriented motorcycle club, also was charged with perjury for his testimony to the grand jury and carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, according to court documents.

[leelaw]

If they are defined as a peace officer by statute, then they may CCW off duty, throughout the 50 states (though I'd recommend to never do it in NYC and a couple other places), according to federal law. They will generally be free from criminal prosecution for CCWing, though the federal law does allow for Department orders to trump it. IE: an officer carries legally, but against Department orders = disciplined, suspended, or fired officer.

[tyrist]

The carry concealed weapon without a permit I think has an alternative reading according to the article. He is probably in trouble for bringing a firearm into a bar. He did'nt abide by permit regulations in the state; which is the issue, not the possession of the weapon in and of itself.

[CowboyShooter]

I guess it works in Utah....


Off-Duty Chicago Officer Stops Attack

Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Updated: September 18th, 2008 10:43 AM GMT-05:00


By Steve Schmadeke, TRIBUNE REPORTER
Chicago Tribune

An off-duty Chicago police officer who had just finished eating breakfast Saturday morning at a pancake restaurant near Provo, Utah, may have saved the life of a man who was attacked in the parking lot by a mentally ill man wielding fabric scissors, police said.

Police in Orem, about 5 miles north of Provo, said a 28-year-old man from Boise, Idaho, and his girlfriend, who is from Provo, had finished breakfast at about 8 a.m. and were saying goodbye when Sergio W. Weffer, 33, of Salt Lake City approached them and said, "I'm sorry."

Weffer then began stabbing the man, slashing him in the face, neck and arm, police said. The man tumbled to the ground with Weffer on top of him.

The Chicago officer, a firearms instructor at the Chicago Police Academy who had been in Utah assisting at a law enforcement conference, was standing outside the restaurant waiting for his partner and planned to catch a flight back to Chicago after breakfast, police said.

The officer, whose identity Chicago and Orem police did not release, went to break up the fight and saw Weffer had what looked like a knife, police said. He pulled his firearm and ordered the man to stop, police said.

Instead, Weffer moved to stab the man again and the Chicago officer shot him. When Weffer tried to run away, the officer grabbed him and held him until Orem police arrived.

"We're glad he was there. We're glad he was prepared," Orem Police Sgt. Gordon Smith said. "Him stepping in meant the life of this other individual. I'm sure he never thought ... this would happen here. But we're very grateful he was there."

The Boise man was taken to Timpanogas Regional Hospital in Orem, where a hospital spokesman said he was treated and released later Saturday. Weffer was taken to Utah Valley Regional Medical Center in Provo, where a spokeswoman said he was in fair condition.

Charges have not yet been filed against Weffer, a Utah County attorney's office employee said.

Two days before the attack, Weffer's mother requested a well-being check, telling police Weffer was mentally ill and off his medications, said Lara Jones, a Salt Lake City police spokeswoman.

sschmadeke@tribune.com

[lrdchivalry]

though the federal law does allow for Department orders to trump it. IE: an officer carries legally, but against Department orders = disciplined, suspended, or fired officer.

Where does hr218 state this?

`Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers
`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

A police agency is a political subdivision because it derives it's authority from the state and according to the CA AG's Q&A:

HR 218 - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS SAFETY ACT (LEOSA) OF 2000 - - ISSUES

1. Does this Act trump state law, local ordinances, and local policy restricting carrying off-duty?
Yes, as it relates to an officer’s ability to carry a concealed weapon off-duty. However, an officer is still subject to his/her employing agency’s policies and conditions of employment.

The agency can develop a policy to dictate what the standards are for employees of that agency to carry firearms - such as qualification standards and frequency. An agency, it appears, is not free to develop a policy about how it will implement the provisions of this Act relative to other law enforcement officers.

Per the author’s website, peace officer ID is sufficient evidence that the officer qualifies to carry under this Act

On-duty restrictions placed by the department appear to be permissible. Off-duty restrictions appear to be superceded by this Act.

If that officer is disciplined or fired for carrying under hr218 that officer would have good legal recourse to go after the agency. Having said that, if the officer did carry under hr218 the officer is responsible for any legal fees if the officer is sued (no qualified immunity).

[lrdchivalry]

The carry concealed weapon without a permit I think has an alternative reading according to the article. He is probably in trouble for bringing a firearm into a bar. He did'nt abide by permit regulations in the state; which is the issue, not the possession of the weapon in and of itself.

The permit regulations of the state would not apply if he was carrying under hr218, since it trumps state laws, however, if he was drinking then he would not be covered under hr218 which states:

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance;

I am not sure if this was what you were trying to say.

[lrdchivalry]

Apparently they can't always carry.

http://sdblacksheep.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/hells-angels-and-iron-pigs-sturgis-shooting/

The only way that carrying without a permit will stick is if the officer was drinking. If that were the case the officer cannot carry under hr218. If the officer wasn't drinking then hr218 comes into play and trumps state law in regards to the officer carrying concealed.

[CSDGuy]

Yes, "qualified law enforcement officers" can carry under HR218. Full time peace officers other than police officers also qualify (arson investigators etc.). If you're listed in the penal code as a peace officer and your duties require you to carry a gun you should be covered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Officers_Safety_Act

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/leosasummary.pdf



.
The LEOSA does not distinguish between Full-Time, Part-Time, Sworn or Un-Sworn. If you meet all the criteria, you're a QLEO as far as the LEOSA is concerned.
If they are defined as a peace officer by statute, then they may CCW off duty, throughout the 50 states (though I'd recommend to never do it in NYC and a couple other places), according to federal law. They will generally be free from criminal prosecution for CCWing, though the federal law does allow for Department orders to trump it. IE: an officer carries legally, but against Department orders = disciplined, suspended, or fired officer.
The discipline would occur after the event. If the officer is currently under some form of discipline by his/her employer, then the LEOSA wouldn't apply.

Here is the text of the LEOSA's criteria...

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

`(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

[tyrist]

The permit regulations of the state would not apply if he was carrying under hr218, since it trumps state laws, however, if he was drinking then he would not be covered under hr218 which states:

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance;

I am not sure if this was what you were trying to say.

It is exactly what I was saying...the alcohol issue is what is causing the charge.

[CSDGuy]

If he was "under the influence" the LEOSA would certainly not apply and he'd be toast. Exactly what is considered "under the influence" for purposes of the LEOSA is also one of those things that needs to be set by case law. This might just be a test case for this part of the LEOSA.

[Moonclip]

So HR218 does not apply to retired LEO? I never supported HR218 because it did not have a provision for "civilians" to do so as well. IIRC Massad Ayoob would try to get non LEOs to back it before it passed, it took awhile, saying it would eventually pass for "civilians" as well if the LEO version passed 1st. Yeah, right.

So before HR218 I assume only Federal LEO could legally CCW everywhere in USA?

[9mmdude]

It covers retired LEO's with 15 or more years of service who left the agency in good standing.