To anyone in Apple Valley re: open carry

[avdrummerboy]

Hey all, first post.

I was told that this forum is the "BIG TENT" of California gunnery from another member of open carry dot org.

Anyway, a little about me. I am about a year and a half away from being able to buy a handgun (thinking Glock-- opinions welcome :) .) Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on here is in San Bernardino county, and if anyone is in the Apple Valley/ Victorville area as I am. I plan on being an avid open carrier once eligible and was just curious to see if anyone on here was in my area.

[Liberty1]

Welcome! Stick around, explore the board, and discuss some other things too. It takes some people a little while to become comfortable with opening up with nubs.

I'm not sure if anyone here has posted about OC in SB yet. Be sure to study the OC brochures (http://californiaopencarry.org/) (read the actual codes too) and keep your powder dry. Get a digital recorder (audio or visual). Interesting things will happen after incorporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_%28Bill_of_Rights%29) and your support and activism will then be key!

Glocks are fine guns. I've never shot well with them however. I like 1911s.

[ohsmily]

Hey all, first post.

I was told that this forum is the "BIG TENT" of California gunnery from another member of open carry dot org.

Anyway, a little about me. I am about a year and a half away from being able to buy a handgun (thinking Glock-- opinions welcome :) .) Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on here is in San Bernardino county, and if anyone is in the Apple Valley/ Victorville area as I am. I plan on being an avid open carrier once eligible and was just curious to see if anyone on here was in my area.

Ask in 1.5 years. Things change. Go buy some long guns in the meantime.

[Glock22Fan]

Glocks are fine guns. I've never shot well with them however. I like 1911s.

Glocks are good and reliable. I can, and usually do, carry a (full-sized) Glock22 all day, outside my pants but concealed by a shirt tail.

I prefer shooting my 1911, the trigger action is much more suitable for acurate shooting, but I find that a full-sized 1911 is just too big to conceal. One day I might try one of the smaller framed 1911's.


There are a whole host of other handguns too, and you will find admirers and detractors for all of them. Get plenty of experience before choosing one, you have about 18 months to do that in.

[bdsmchs]

(thinking Glock-- opinions welcome :)

Just make sure you get a chance to hold and fire a Glock before getting one.

They have very strange ergonomics and a funky balance. I can't handle them at all. With that said, they are extremely reliable, well-built guns. But the above reason is why I recommend at least firing and/or holding one before you commit to buy.

If you're looking at polymer guns in general, I would also highly recommend you take a look at the Springfield XD's and the S&W M&P's.

Try to get a chance to fire anything you want to buy, before you settle on it. You can find out a lot by the feel of a gun in your hands in the gun store, but you'll never TRULY know how it's going to feel until you get a chance to put a mag through it.

[Adonlude]

Definately rent a bunch of pistols at a range before you buy. That's what I did and it gave me a much better idea of what I wanted. I think one of the guns even hurt to fire as the trigger guard shape didn't agree with my finger shape and caused pinching. It would have ben a bummer to have blindly purchased that one. In the end I purchased my original blind desire, a Sig P229R, and I couldn't be happier.

[Liberty1]

I am about a year and a half away from being able to buy a handgun (from an FFL).

I'm assuming your 19 1/2? You can receive a handgun as a gift from a parent today (FTF), mail in the DOJ transfer paperwork and fee, and be OCing as soon as you have a holster.

(not sure if I should have told you that - don't make me regret it:p)

[Glock22Fan]

(not sure if I should have told you that - don't make me regret it)

Whether AVDrummerBoy is 18.5 or 19.5, he should be aware that anyone that young carrying openly, however legally, is likely to receive far more than his fair share of attention from Law Enforcement.

[avdrummerboy]

Whether AVDrummerBoy is 18.5 or 19.5, he should be aware that anyone that young carrying openly, however legally, is likely to receive far more than his fair share of attention from Law Enforcement.

Hence the reason I am in no hurry, like I said not anyone up here who open carries that I know about, so I may be the first and thus get the most attention for it.

Anyways, thanks for all the replies, I believe thats its time for CA to get used to the fact that armed law-abiding citizens is a VERY good thing. If all of us do our part them maybe someday!!!!!

I don't know any local ranges that rent guns to try out, so I might be a little out of luck there, and I am the oddball gun person in my family so getting my parents to help wont happen either, but in the meantime I support however I can.

[tombinghamthegreat]

don't know any local ranges that rent guns to try out, so I might be a little out of luck there, and I am the oddball gun person in my family so getting my parents to help wont happen either, but in the meantime I support however I can.

Make sure you search the forum to avoid any FUD and look into "guitar parties" ;). Look into concealing unloaded long guns(gym bags, trunk guns, ect.) with the ammo right next to it both in your car and on foot. It is legal (just avoid 1000 feet of the k-12 schools, govt buildings, ect) since there is no law on concealing non-concealable long guns. I would recommend a compact shotgun or a RAA saiga. You could also UOC long guns, just might a lot more attention then a handgun.

[tetris]

Drummerboy, if you lived in the 1930s, would you also campaign for the right of moonshiners to distribute empty beer bottles??

Do you also plan to go to school with a crack pipe stuffed with baking soda? Do you plan to stand on the street corner and sell little bags of tea leaves?

What good is open carry if the gun must be unloaded? You should apply your energy toward something constructive, and not some harebrained movement started by a bunch of crackpots. In other words, why don't you lobby for loaded carry or shall issue concealed carry?

[Liberty1]

why don't you lobby for loaded carry or shall issue concealed carry?

UOC is one of the means to an end. Not the end. :rolleyes:

[avdrummerboy]

Because most people are lazy, I'm only one person, I can't change the law on my own. There needs to be more unification of us in order for ANYTHING to happen. I would love to see the laws changed.

Also, what do illegal substances and paraphernalia have to do with LEGAL Unloaded Open Carry??

[CitaDeL]

What good is open carry if the gun must be unloaded? You should apply your energy toward something constructive, and not some harebrained movement started by a bunch of crackpots. In other words, why don't you lobby for loaded carry or shall issue concealed carry?

I'm guessing that since you are posting on a gun forum, that you actually own a gun. Right?

Now imagine yourself pinned down in a restaurant by an active shooter while your gun is safely locked in your vehicle or in your home as perscribed by law. What good is owning a gun, when it must be locked up? You should apply your energy towards something constructive, and not some harebrained movement started by a bunch of crackpots.

Oops- Crackpot here.

I own guns and I think that I should be free to carry them for my personal protection- and as a demonstration of my first amendment rights. I believe that lawfully carrying a weapon, even unloaded is better than leaving it at home locked inside a safe, where it is ineffective as a defense tool.

Gunowners like you, Tetris, are the most dangerous thing to our 2nd amendment rights. You villify those who would exersize their rights and support compromise measures like shall issue 'ccw'. I would further hypothosize that you are afraid of offending anyone with the mere presense of a firearm.

Many here dont like to hear it, but licensing anyone to carry a firearm is just more gun control. And while some think that open carry is just grandstanding, they neglect to recognize the peripheral effects on the conduct of the people around them. Think about it- are people really offended or afraid if they come up to you to complain? Even so- the mere exposure to reasonable people lawfully carrying firearms will bring tolerance with repetition.

[tetris]

I'm guessing that since you are posting on a gun forum, that you actually own a gun. Right?


Sorry, you got me. I'm a Brady Center Secret Agent. Your right, carrying an unloaded gun is a useful endeavor.

[avdrummerboy]

How is it not. If I'm in trouble I'd rather have a gun on one hip, unloaded, and ammo on the other, which is legal, than have no gun at all, or worse to know that my gun is safely locked in my car, while the criminal coming at me safely has his weapon. Plus with a little practice, and especially under pressure of a "bad guy" coming at someone, one can learn to load FAST.

Are you a Law Enforcement Officer Tetris? Because your posts sound a lot like the usual speech that LEO's give OC'ers when they see them. "I know it's your right but we'ed rather you not do that," the socialist States of America fears an armed public.

[Glock22Fan]

I have to say to all the "What use is an unloaded gun?" people that it is a damn sight faster to load an unloaded gun in extremis than to go home and unlock your gunsafe.

Jerry Miculek can fire twelve rounds, including reload, in 2.7 seconds.

Sure, the extra couple of seconds may cost you your life over a loaded gun, but so what? Without the gun you would be screwed completely - at least an unloaded gun gives you that extra chance.

And there's the political statement. You might well ask "What's the point in parading in public carrying a sign?" You are making your views known and visible.

And no, I don't uoc myself. Such people are braver than me.

[avdrummerboy]

And no, I don't uoc myself. Such people are braver than me.

Since when did it become brave to exercise your rights. Are you being brave when you exercise you rights to free speech or religion? If I can get a CCW, I will carry concealed as well as open, it's my choice either way. Why do people seem to fear the law, let me quote Alexander Hamilton for a minute. "Here, sir, the people govern." Way too many Americans (my best educated guess is around 90%) have forgotten that we, the people, the citizens, run this country and have nothing to loose by doing what is right and legal.

Call me brave, but I do plan on UOC'ing. California needs a whole lot of unification and soon, to get things to change. Yes, I would love to see laws changed in favor of people being able to protect themselves, but as I stated earlier, I am only one person, I need many people to back me up in getting things changed.

If anyone else on here is truly serious about this then maybe we can make things happen, but until then pissing and moaning won't do anything.

[-hanko]

Drummerboy, if you lived in the 1930s, would you also campaign for the right of moonshiners to distribute empty beer bottles??

Do you also plan to go to school with a crack pipe stuffed with baking soda? Do you plan to stand on the street corner and sell little bags of tea leaves?

What good is open carry if the gun must be unloaded? You should apply your energy toward something constructive, and not some harebrained movement started by a bunch of crackpots. In other words, why don't you lobby for loaded carry or shall issue concealed carry?
Otoh, if you lived in the '30's would you have confiscated the (illegal) guns from the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto.;)

Your comparison is illogical...open carry is legal. The bottle/pipe/tea anologies simulate illegal activities.

-hanko

[avdrummerboy]

I know what he was getting at in his false analogy, trying to say that exercising my legal rights is not worth the time. But it only feels like a time waster because no one is willing to do it, I am. I would like to see more OC, but until we can get a BBQ or something like they have been doing in NH, then, well, all I can do in the meantime is try to encourage people to fight for a good cause.

[Glock22Fan]

Call me brave, but I do plan on UOC'ing.

Ah! the impetuosity of youth!

Still, at nineteen, or whatever it is, you are in much better shape than me to go kissing dirt with your arms twisted behind your back while they first check to see if your gun is unloaded and second ask the sergeant whether they can trump up anything that might change your mind in future.

Sure, it might not happen; some areas are getting a bit wiser about these things, but I still rate it as possible.

It would for sure spoil my day.

And, as you would probably know had you been around for a while, I do my bit for the 2nd.

[avdrummerboy]

How is it impetuosity if I am planning on how to carry now, years before I can carry? Learning the applicable laws and knowing what I am getting into. The big point is that if no one open carries then no one will ever learn that it is legal and safe.And, as you would probably know had you been around for a while, I do my bit for the 2nd. I never pointed fingers. I was just merely saying that in order for things to change people need to actually do something about it.

[retired]

Avdrummerboy, welcome to the forum. If you haven't already done so, I would advise you to read some of the stickys on the forum that have been established by some of the more learned members here. Not just those pertaining to OC, but also to OLLs (in case you are interested in eventually obtaining the latter).

There is plenty of excellent info provided in the stickys and memos; the latter being on the "cover" page of the site.

Anything by bweise, for one, makes for an excellent read. There are others also, but I can't recall their names off hand.

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. I, fortunately, do not have to make the decision whether to OC, since I have a ccw. I'm not sure what it would be if I didn't.

I do agree tho, an unloaded gun on your hip, with a mag in your pocket gives you a much better chance than your loaded gun in your safe. Just practice, practice if you intend to eventually carry and make sure there is no ammo around to have a tragic ND.

As far as what gun choice: I tried all of the Glock subcompacts in the various calibers for ccw use when I retired from le. I hadn't even heard of a XD at that time. I agree the Glock is a very good gun, just not for me. The grip was uncomfortable, it didn't have an ambi mag release (I'm lefty), and I limp wristed with all of them.

I hadn't even heard of that word until I asked the RM at the range why the guns weren't locking open. I tried a 4" XD and liked the feel of it. I bought a XD subcompact 9mm 5yrs. ago and carry it on a daily basis. Never had a problem with it, tho some had some rust problems with some of the earlier models. The newer ones have the same finish as the Glocks; albeit a different name, so nothing to worry about in that regard.

Since I depend on my XD to save me if necessary, I can, in good conscience, highly recommend them. If you have any questions, you can pm me. Good luck.

[avdrummerboy]

Thanks for the response, I guess I need to try a glock, but as I said no ranges up here that rent them out. As you said if I do get a CCW, I will definitely carry concealed. Although carrying open you don't have to worry about having a subcompact. Also nice to meet another lefty shooter :)

[Glock22Fan]

Thanks for the response, I guess I need to try a glock, but as I said no ranges up here that rent them out. As you said if I do get a CCW, I will definitely carry concealed. Although carrying open you don't have to worry about having a subcompact. Also nice to meet another lefty shooter :)


I have no idea what ranges there are in your neck of the woods, but if you could make an outing along Pearblossom Highway to the Oaktree Gunclub in Newhall (near where the I5 and the 14 merge) they have oodles of firearms. You just pay the range fee ($18?) one rental fee ($10?), and buy all your ammo from them (reloads) and you can shoot dozens of firearms all day long.

[RickD6023]

Thanks for the response, I guess I need to try a glock, but as I said no ranges up here that rent them out. As you said if I do get a CCW, I will definitely carry concealed. Although carrying open you don't have to worry about having a subcompact. Also nice to meet another lefty shooter :)


The closest range to you is in San Bernardino - Dave's on Lugo and Central by the Orange Show Fairgrounds. None of the gun clubs in the High Desert has rentals. There is a wide variety of handguns at Dave's for rent including Glocks but you have to use his ammo.