Would this be loaning a “high cap”? **New Twist**

[RANGER295]

I have been living with my parents for a little while and will be moving to SLO to get a masters degree later this week. I do not have room for all of my firearms, accessories, tools, and other junk so my dad agreed to let me store it at their place. I have made their house my permanent address and will be in SLO for less than a year. I look at it like an extended business trip. All of the firearms (except for the two I am taking) will be in my safes, but I have boxes of regular capacity magazines that will not fit in the safes and I can’t practically take with me. Would this be considered loaning “high caps” to leave them there while I am “out of town”? Should we make a “storage agreement”? Just wanted to your thoughts. Also, aren’t you only allowed to loan handguns for 30 days? Would I run afoul of that? I will probably be leaving 6 or 7 handguns in one of my safes. And for the record, my dad has the combo to both of the safes.

[sorensen440]

doenst sound like a loan to me

[spsellars]

I personally would make a landlord/tenant agreement with him, and place a lock on your bedroom door. As a landlord he would obviously be allowed a key, and access to your room (with your consent), but the contents of your room would clearly be yours.

[StukaJr]

You could have more than one residence - this is not Soviet China...

Your property, your residence = end of story (for storage purposes).

[domokun]

Loan = you physically present nearby at all times while the legally obtained "high capacity" magazine is lent out to someone.

[sorensen440]

just out of curiosity do you have reason to believe there going to raid the house to see if any preban magazines were loaned to your parents?

[Army]

Your legal address, your legal property.

No law says you cannot own, or store, your personal property at your resident address.

The law specifies what you cannot do with normal magazines. Owning and using....and storing.... them are NOT on the list.

[drdanno84]

This should be a "no brainer", are we really that paranoid about these frivolous
gun laws? sometimes we need to exercise common sense.

[nicki]

Why not put mags in a container with a lock on it, if they have no key, it is your address, they have no access. But have a rental agreement made, you can even store it in the locked case:D

Nicki

[mrjones98]

Loan = you physically present nearby at all times while the legally obtained "high capacity" magazine is lent out to someone.

Not in the legal sense. Loaning is prohibited with a few exceptions. For most of us, the one exception is you can let someone use your mags while you're with them; any other definition of "loan" is prohibited.

12020(a):
Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(2)Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.

12020(b):
Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(22)The loan of a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine
between two individuals if all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person being loaned the large-capacity magazine is not
prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or
Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from
possessing firearms or ammunition.
(B) The loan of the large-capacity magazine occurs at a place or
location where the possession of the large-capacity magazine is not
otherwise prohibited and the person who lends the large-capacity
magazine remains in the accessible vicinity of the person to whom the
large-capacity magazine is loaned.

[RANGER295]

Ok I am glad that everyone pretty much agrees with me. We do have a rental agreement for other reasons. These items are not specifically mentioned.
This should be a "no brainer", are we really that paranoid about these frivolous
gun laws? sometimes we need to exercise common sense.
You are right, it should be a no-brainer. But in this state, there are things that are not no-brainers that should be. I am probably a little paranoid when it comes to gun laws and so forth, but I don’t want to end up being a test case. Sometimes it is good to bounce ideas off of others to make sure that you are thinking straight.
Why not put mags in a container with a lock on it, if they have no key, it is your address, they have no access. But have a rental agreement made, you can even store it in the locked case:D

Nicki
How about multiple cardboard boxes with duct tape?:p
just out of curiosity do you have reason to believe there going to raid the house to see if any preban magazines were loaned to your parents?
In reality no. But then again, stranger things have happened. They could come into the house for some other reason, go out to the shop, see the multiple safes, cases of ammo, 5 gallon buckets of reloading components, mil-surp gear, survival equipment, boxes of mags, and say holy crap… and want the answers to a lot of questions. Everything we have is legal, we have done nothing to warrant a search, but who knows… there could be a call from a disgruntled neighbor or some other thing that triggers a LEO visit. I always believe that you should live you life like you are expecting a LEO or DOJ to come kick in your door at any minute.:TFH: That way they will hopefully go away empty handed.

[Fjold]

Just put them in a box with your name on them. They are your property at your residence, no problem.

[RANGER295]

Ok so here is a new twist. I left all of them except a couple of my standard capacity mags for the Sig that I took. Now I am thinking that I want a .22 down here but I didn’t bring one. My parents are visiting me in a week and I was thinking of having them bring one for me. I would kind of like to have my 10/22 which I have almost all 25 round mags for. There is no way to have them bring those mags and strictly follow the law is there? If someone can’t give me some good argument as to why that would be ok, I will just have them bring me one of my other .22’s that has 10 rounders or is tube fed. I have around a dozen .22’s to pick from.:D

[AJAX22]

Wait untill you can go and get them yourself. It places both you and your parents in an awkward situation.

I would really not even discuss this stuff in hypotheticals, especially on a forum where the CA DOJ regularly trolls for info.

Get a 10 round mag for your ruger and wait untill you can drive home to get your full cap mags.

Also... for you guys who are worried about storing magazines while you are away.... why not dissasemble them for storage? you can re-assemble them legally and at no time is anyone in posession of large capacity magazines outside of your control?

obviously that won't work for some magazine types, but it should be ok for most of them. and the rest should be able to fit in a locking container clearly designated as your property.

[RANGER295]

Wait untill you can go and get them yourself. It places both you and your parents in an awkward situation. ….
Get a 10 round mag for your ruger and wait untill you can drive home to get your full cap mags….

That is pretty much was I figured. I just wanted some second opinions. I guess it is kind of ironic that was concerned enough to ask about the first question and then even considered this one. Oh well. I think I decided on my AK-22 that I have 8 or 9 10 round mags for.

I would really not even discuss this stuff in hypotheticals, especially on a forum where the CA DOJ regularly trolls for info.
Why? No one had advocated doing anything illegal. All I did was ask if there was a legal way to do XYZ with property that I legally own.

Also... for you guys who are worried about storing magazines while you are away.... why not dissasemble them for storage? you can re-assemble them legally and at no time is anyone in posession of large capacity magazines outside of your control?

obviously that won't work for some magazine types, but it should be ok for most of them. and the rest should be able to fit in a locking container clearly designated as your property.

I do not want to give away the details of how my property is stored, but I came up with a clearly labeled secure way or storing it so that it is clearly separate from their stuff and they do not have immediate access to it without calling me and asking where the keys are.

[Riodog]

I hate to say this but You, sir, are one of the most paranoid individuals around. You say you're going for your 'masters' and you are under the illusion that this is nazi Germany. Something is very wrong here if you're in that much fear.
Rio

[RANGER295]

I hate to say this but You, sir, are one of the most paranoid individuals around. You say you're going for your 'masters' and you are under the illusion that this is nazi Germany. Something is very wrong here if you're in that much fear.
Rio

I would not say that I am afraid, just perhaps overly cautious. I am going for my masters in ag education and if I were to get popped for something like this I could pretty much kiss my teaching career goodbye before it even started. Having to defend myself would also be a serious setback and jeopardized resource wise some stuff that I have worked very hard for. I do exercise my rights I am just careful. I legally own standard capacity mags and I have no problem taking them out and using them. I own an OLL. I just want to make sure I am following the law. If there is something that I think may be in the grey area, I bounce it off the others here. The first question, I was pretty sure was ok, the second question I was pretty sure was not, and people confirmed that. I got some great ideas in response to question one and took some of them. I also did not go as far as at least one person suggested and disassemble them. That same person suggested not even talking about the subject.

[AJAX22]

Why? No one had advocated doing anything illegal. All I did was ask if there was a legal way to do XYZ with property that I legally own.




Its not that what is being discussed is illigal, or that anyone is advocating illegal activity.

The problem is that someone could very easily misread what is being asked and use it to gain probable cause to search your parents and your homes.

When firearms are involved, almost anything can be twisted into P.C. for a search warrent.

Anytime magazine storage or offsite firearm storage is discussed, it is best to keep the discussions just about the law and not about particular scenarios specific to an individual or a particular set of circumstances.

I'm usually not super parinoid about this stuff, but college students look like easy targets to law enforcement (no jobs, already streatched finances, unlikley to have lawyers on retainer, etc. etc.)

If they decide that you could be a juicy target and they can articulate some sort of firearm related reason for probable cause, you could find yourself under scruiteny and possibly dealing with trying to pay for a 40k legal bill for things that are compleatly legal.

I'm not tryin to be a jerk or anything by stating this stuff, I'm just trying to watch your six for you.

I grew up in SLO, its my town. I know how easy it is to get into trouble ;)

Low key IS key, and minimize all encounters with LEO if possible. if they get to the point where they 'reccognize' you (even if its just from working at the motorcycle shop next to the morrobay PD like I did) you can find yourself getting an extra level of scruiteny.

SLO is a great place, but it is a very small town, and you really don't want to get a reputation as a troublemaker or a 'gun nut'.