Pro Gun English website.

[nicki]

http://www.britainneedsguns.co.uk/whatwewant.htm

Here is someone in England who is trying to do things right in England.

Perhaps we can share info and help each other.

One thing he may be able to do is verify how things really are in England.

We get alot of stuff of the internet, but it is nice to get info from ground sources.

Nicki

[5968]

I think he missed the bus...

[5968]

I will say, I am gald they are trying to do something about it, but they should have started before they lost their weapons.

[CCWFacts]

I like his #1 goal, "CCW reform in the UK". For a country that so civilized, big-brothered, and gun-free as the UK is, it has a staggeringly high rate of violent crime.

The UK has its own UK National Rifle Association (http://www.nra.org.uk), which has made the terrible error of focusing only on sporting use, so as to appear respectable and acceptable to British society.

In Europe in general, gun rights are associated only with extreme-right groups, which is also very harmful for having any type of gun rights movement.

They need some help. Gun web forums have been tremendous here in California and other states at bringing people together and getting them active. Maybe this guy can pull something similar there. There are plenty of Brits who are absolutely disgusted with their current crime situation, and feel unsafe in their own house. And their government punishes them when they act in their own defense, even unarmed in their own house. Many of them find that to be awful but they are all isolated. A forum could really help them.

[gazzavc]

Anything is possible, however given the state of Britains affairs, it would seem a hell of an uphill battle.

I wish them luck, but those of us who saw the writing on the walls 20+ years ago did the sensible thing.

We left !!

[tyrist]

It's far to late now. It would take a serious event to cause their political body to change course now.

[God Bless The Mauser]

It's possible they could get their gun rights back. We are getting them back in a lot of the most anti gun places in the US.

[AggregatVier]

I wish him the best but, for God's sake, the poor blokes are about to have their fire extinguishers confiscated because some nanny "safety" lawyer says they're too dangerous for untrained people. Extinguishers give people the false hope they can fight fires when what they need to do is run away.

The Sun has set on the british empire (lower case deliberate).

[battleship]

Britain has a very good propaganda machine in place by the government, when it comes to anti guns, its called the U.S.A.

They always put the blame back on the U.S. when something goes down and guns are involved, they fail to see the real reasons for the violence that occurs there.

And in doing so keep the public in fear on both sides of the fence, the fear of owning guns and the violence that is inflicted upon them by there own society, its a way of keeping control on society without actually helping it to prevent crime.

The brits have been blindsided/ and brainwashed for years, and have been fed the soup of American violence yet the truth is that country has a terrible history of violence without to many shots been fired. so it really has nothing to do with the issues of owning guns, but its the issue of lawless british thug culture. which mock the police and authorities.

[MrBi11]

I don't believe the comments said here,
You complain that the rest of the country has given up on California because of there 'left coast' laws regarding your rights, but then say it's to late for the brits...

I've watched, supported and have seen advancements within your state [many thanks to Trutanich • Michel], giving up on anyones rights isn't an option. standing together can and will make changes.

Something as small as reading this guys website and informing others the truth about what is happening is not a lot to ask.

*Steps off soapbox*

[nicki]

Our country banned alcohol in around 1920. It was a measure to reduce crime and other problems associated with alcohol.

The end result was businessmen like Al Capone saw a market and filled the need. Al Capone's mistake was he should have gotten a better accountant.

The public got tired of the violence caused by alcohol prohibition and support for alcohol prohibition flipped by the 1930's.

The English may eventually realize the lie that prohibitions work and as long as they still can vote, may decide that they are tired of living in a police state and take some action.

Nicki

[Glock22Fan]

In the fifty odd years I lived in Britain, I can say that there never was a gun culture in my lifetime. Firearms certificates were basically only available for vermin control on ground where the owner had given his approval in writing, to members of recognized clubs target shooting at ranges and to a few politicians (and maybe a couple of other categories, but I never heard of any of them).

You could carry an unloaded firearm in a case to or from the gundealer and anywhere you had written permission to shoot, such as a farm or range.

Almost nobody owned a gun and the remainder saw no necessity to own a gun. Towards the latter part of the half century, I was regarded as Rambo by my town-dwelling colleagues because I had a .22LR rifle.

My guess is that the percentage of Brits who would fight the very idea of restoring gun rights is in the high nineties in the towns and cities, and pretty high in the countryside, except for farmers and land owners.

I sincerely doubt that pro-gun Brits have any chance of reversing the situation to any real extent.

[savageevo]

I hope they get there guns back. God know if say russia ever wants to envade, they would not be able to fight back. (I know that thought is way off course, but look what happen to Georgia). At least if any other country would ever invade us, at least 50 million americans would be armed and ready.

[nicki]

I didn't realize you were from England, thank you for sharing info with the rest of us about the culture across the pond.

Did England always have this massive anti gun climate or is this something that just evolved over the years.

You sound like a seasoned citizen, how long have you been over here in the US?

Nicki

[Glock22Fan]

I didn't realize you were from England, thank you for sharing info with the rest of us about the culture across the pond.

Did England always have this massive anti gun climate or is this something that just evolved over the years.

You sound like a seasoned citizen, how long have you been over here in the US?

Nicki

The hatred wasn't there when I was younger, nobody was too upset by my owning a target rifle then -- I think it was a hangover of the war years. However, the neighborhood (indoor) ranges, often shared with the Territorial Army (National Guard equivalent) fell into disuse from lack of interest and the land they sat on was often targetted for redevelopment. That left a small core of target shooters (indoor ranges), the landed gentry after stags and pheasants and grouse, and farmers after rabbits. It got marginalized and faded away from mainstream culture, which was exposed to the Hollywood violence on the one hand and the namby pamby Nanny State mentality, whereby it was not your job to look after yourself, this would be done for you and anyone who had a firearm must have violent tendencies.

I've been a citizen for over seven years, lived here for twelve last June. I'm married to an American, so acculturization was relatively easy.

I sound totally English to Americans, and totally American to Brits.

[bulgron]

Did England always have this massive anti gun climate or is this something that just evolved over the years.

The history of gun control in Britain began in 1903 with the Pistols Act, which made it a crime to sell a handgun to a criminal or a child, and made it a requirement to obtain a license to purchase a handgun. The gun control ball has been rolling in England ever since, but picked up steam during WWI when Parliament enacted "temporary measures" in the name of national security. Needless to say, these temporary measures continue even to this day.

They did have a set back during WWII when Germany was set to invade. The American NRA helped out England in those years by sending them more than 7,000 firearms for use in island defense. Sadly, once the war was over, England simply destroyed as many of these arms as it could lay it's hands on (as well as anything that might be returning from the theater of war amongst it's troops) and proceeded with their grand experiment on gun control.

At the end of the day, the history of gun control in England is the same as it is here: it is an issue driven by fear of some ethnic group, social class, or political organization (the anarchists! the communists!) which the Powers That Be fear will rise up in violent revolution. That is, it's all about the political leadership trying to protect their own sorry butts. Needless to say, the English political establishment has done everything including outright lying in order to advance their agenda of full-on disarmament of the general population.

What happened in England is clearly a cautionary tale for us gun owners here in the United States. You can read about it in all it's gory detail in this guncite article:

http://www.guncite.com/journals/okslip.html

[gazzavc]

I concur with John here, living and growing up over there, guns were just something you saw on television, but nobody ever had.

You looked after yourself with your hands, and were never afraid of getting shot or stabbed. The thug culture sprung up in the early 70's starting at football matches, hooligans and yobs. It has just seemed to spiral out of control since then. Successive governments just seemed to take all the dicipline away from schools, and parents. Teachers couldn't cane or smack unruly pupils, parents can't smack or dicipline their children.
Open immigration policies have made England the most crowded country in Europe. You have that many different people in that small of an area and there is bound to be problems.

Its a shocking mess, and the government know it. They'll never allow people to have firearms again as it would eventually lead to the mother of all race riots.

My view FWIW

Gary

[Glock22Fan]

I concur with John here, living and growing up over there, guns were just something you saw on television, but nobody ever had.

You looked after yourself with your hands, and were never afraid of getting shot or stabbed. The thug culture sprung up in the early 70's starting at football matches, hooligans and yobs. It has just seemed to spiral out of control since then. Successive governments just seemed to take all the dicipline away from schools, and parents. Teachers couldn't cane or smack unruly pupils, parents can't smack or dicipline their children.
Open immigration policies have made England the most crowded country in Europe. You have that many different people in that small of an area and there is bound to be problems.

Its a shocking mess, and the government know it. They'll never allow people to have firearms again as it would eventually lead to the mother of all race riots.

My view FWIW

Gary


I concur back. Football (soccer) is, I think, closely linked with the thug culture. You got gangs of young men heavily drinking, mainly lager (hence "lager louts"), spilling out onto the sidewalks and and looking for trouble. Get hundreds of these drunks in pubs around a soccer stadium, half supporting one team and half the other, and the rioting starts.

There was also, at the same time, an outbreak of skinheads and "Paki bashing." Doc Martins became popular because of the damage you could cause by "putting the boot in."

And yet, most Brits think America is a violent country, and that England is peaceful. Of course, both countries are mostly peaceful in most places, but even in my youth I knew better than to go to some parts of town on a Friday or Saturday night, and other parts, never.

[Satex]

I will say, I am gald they are trying to do something about it, but they should have started before they lost their weapons.

Isn't that similar to what other states say about California?

[Bizcuits]

Ozzy Osbourne used to have a show called meet the Osbournes, in of the episodes he went back to his Mansion in england and his son opened a gun safe in their home. He pulled out an L85 and was showing it off.

[Glock22Fan]

Ozzy Osbourne used to have a show called meet the Osbournes, in of the episodes he went back to his Mansion in england and his son opened a gun safe in their home. He pulled out an L85 and was showing it off.

I never, ever, heard of any private individual getting a Firearms Certificate for a fully automatic assault rifle over there, and it seems very strange. It was pretty difficult to get a certificate for a .22LR rifle. Much like CCW's in California, you needed to provide your Chief Constable with an acceptable Good Cause (and personal protection was a big no-no - leaving competitive target shooting, hunting and varmint/vermin control).

And Ozzy wasn't exactly your guy-next-door.

[gazzavc]

It may also have been a deactivated one.

From the outside its exactly alike, unless he were to rack the slide, you would never know.

Its virtually impossible for someone to get hold of something like that to be kept in a private residence, and as for showing on TV, that would definatly trigger a visit from the Old Bill.

G

[Paladin]

Open immigration policies have made England the most crowded country in Europe. You have that many different people in that small of an area and there is bound to be problems.

Its a shocking mess, and the government know it. They'll never allow people to have firearms again as it would eventually lead to the mother of all race riots.
Who implemented those immigration polices, when, and why?

IMO, unchecked immigration in this country, esp illegal, will destroy us. In CA, something like 25% of our citizens were born in another country! If most native born American's don't understand our Constitution and the way our country is supposed to work (thanks various Teacher's Associations and liberal university professors :rolleyes:), what chance do we have when trying to appeal to people who weren't even raised here?

(Interesting question: What percent of college professors in the 1950s, '60s, or '70s volunteered to serve in either WW II or Korea?)

About 5 yrs ago (last time I looked into the details), there were 4,000,000 illegal aliens in CA alone and >90% of the outstanding murder warrants in LA County were for illegal aliens.

Our government and its policies reflect (albeit, imperfectly) the desires of our people. I remember wondering when I was a kid what would happen if you took all of the people in the US and move them to 3rd world country "X" and took all of their people and moved them to the US. My guess was that within 2 generations (60 yrs), the US would be transformed by "X-ians" to look pretty much like country X and that country X would be transformed by Americans to look like the US. Sadly, we are seeing that slowly happen right now. First demonize ("Eurocentrism" and "intolerance"), then displace ("tolerance," "Multiculturalism," and unchecked immigration), and last destroy our American cultural heritage and then America will destroy itself as it fragments into rival factions (or becomes totalitarian to hold the various factions together).

A people must have a unity of fundamental beliefs & practices before they can come together in a peaceful, stable, and long-lasting voluntary political union. The "progressives" have encouraged "dis-unity" for most of the previous century. In this next century, we will experience either "dis-union" (dissolution), or forced union (totalitarianism).

Freedom's last stand is taking place before our eyes.

www.NumbersUSA.org
www.NumbersUSA.com

I think you can guess my 2nd highest public policy goal after "Shall Issue" reform in CA. ;)

"Deportation Stops Exploitation!"

[Paladin]

I will say, I am gald they are trying to do something about it, but they should have started before they lost their weapons.

You never know, he may not have even been born when their gov't started restricting their "RKBA." (I know, they don't have our 2nd A, but if you believe that all men are given that right by their Creator (harmonizing our Declaration w/our BoR), then all men have a RKBA, 2nd A or not.)

I'd guess most of the OC people in the US who are trying to reclaim that right weren't alive when it fell out of disuse.

[Mulay El Raisuli]

And Ozzy wasn't exactly your guy-next-door.

True, but he's rich. Maybe that explains it?

The Raisuli

[Glock22Fan]

True, but he's rich. Maybe that explains it?

The Raisuli

Any special police treatment for rich people is much less blatent than it is over here. British police try very hard to avoid the appearance of favoritism, even though it undoubtedly happens.

And, as elections don't enter into it (Chief Constables are appointed, not elected) then there's no campaign donation issues.

Firearms are a particularly touchy subject for Brits. I'd very much doubt if anybody in England has a certificate or waiver for a banned weapon because he or she is rich. If there was such a weapon, and it was abused, then heads would roll and careers ruined.