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X-NewYawker
09-14-2008, 12:24 PM
Don't tell me to check the flow chart I'm posting from my iphone -- CA legal if FIXEd ten round mag plus pistol grip AND is folder or telescoping stock allowed? Important/

Thanks

DedEye
09-14-2008, 12:28 PM
Fixed 10 round mag plus any number of evil features is legal.

Frijolito1988
09-14-2008, 12:30 PM
as long as it meets 30 OAL when in the smallest possition

ohsmily
09-14-2008, 6:40 PM
:banghead:

I swear, no matter how many times people have provided you with the information, you refuse to read it and learn it. It isn't that complex: Fixed mag allows you to have evil features; featureless builds allow you to use detachable mags (including high caps if you have them).

NiteQwill
09-14-2008, 6:58 PM
:banghead:

I swear, no matter how many times people have provided you with the information, you refuse to read it and learn it. It isn't that complex: Fixed mag allows you to have evil features; featureless builds allow you to use detachable mags (including high caps if you have them).

Yea, honestly, I don't understand the constant repeats by the same people.

technique
09-14-2008, 7:00 PM
:kest::xeno::banghead::toetap05::dots::owned:

X-NewYawker
09-14-2008, 7:15 PM
:banghead:

I swear, no matter how many times people have provided you with the information, you refuse to read it and learn it. It isn't that complex: Fixed mag allows you to have evil features; featureless builds allow you to use detachable mags (including high caps if you have them).

I searched.. I read. Maybe you don't get that you all live on the razor's edge of INTERPRETATION.

I was out, on my ip[hone, at a range. Someone questioned my DS arms. I wanted to make sure. Can't read the flow chart on my iphone screen.

The interactive flow chart was very helpful.

technique
09-14-2008, 7:17 PM
I searched.. I read. Maybe you don't get that you all live on the razor's edge of INTERPRETATION.


not this crap again!:rolleyes:

technique
09-14-2008, 7:18 PM
:TFH:....

X-NewYawker
09-14-2008, 7:22 PM
Yea, honestly, I don't understand the constant repeats by the same people.

Really? Some of us are still not convinced all the time we're not breaking the law.
Sorry.
Those of you with Lawyers on staff can feel a little freer to take risks. I mean, maybe you don't comprehend it -- years of believing we couldn't own a particular kind of gun -- then discovering a band of miscreants who formed a website to tout their OLLs -- and you can't cut us slack? "Hit the search button?"

People want to feel like part of this rifle loving community. This isn't wikipedia, it is a forum. How many times have I seen the same questions asked by newbs here? Thousands. I smile and if I know the answer I post, if I don;t I read the other posts.

If you don't like responding, don't.

You're not going to stop people form askin "silly questions" as long as they are people.

And if you are out at the gunstore or range, and someone (not a range geek but a gun company owner - so I doubted what I already knew) takes you to task on something that is a gray area, you will want affirmation. You don't seem to have a problem with people asking where they can buy Saigas or cheap ammo --Why don't you bark at them and say "search the posts!"

technique
09-14-2008, 7:28 PM
Really? Some of us are still not convinced all the time we're not breaking the law.
Sorry.
Those of you with Lawyers on staff can feel a little freer to take risks. I mean, maybe you don't comprehend it -- years of believing we couldn't own a particular kind of gun -- then discovering a band of miscreants who formed a website to tout their OLLs -- and you can't cut us slack? "Hit the search button?"


You're not going to stop people form askin "silly questions" as long as they are people.

And if you are out at the gunstore or range, and someone takes you to task on something that is a gray area, you will want affirmation. You don't seem to havbe a problem with people asking where they can buy Saigas/ Why don't you bark at them and say "search the posts!"


People want to feel like part of this rifle loving community. This isn't wikipedia, it is a forum. How many times have I seen the same questions asked by newbs here? Thousands. I smile and if I know the answer I post, if I don;t I read the other posts.

If you don't like responding, don't.



DON'T BUY OLLs THEN!!!!!! You have over 1000 posts...you are not a noob!
If you don't know the law, don't own "questionable firearms", and if you don't know the law, please don't attempt to explain them to anyone else.

Thank you

eaglemike
09-14-2008, 7:29 PM
I searched.. I read. Maybe you don't get that you all live on the razor's edge of INTERPRETATION.

I was out, on my ip[hone, at a range. Someone questioned my DS arms. I wanted to make sure. Can't read the flow chart on my iphone screen.

The interactive flow chart was very helpful.
The lower cannot be on the banned list under any circumstances - unless it's registered to you as an assault weapon. The rifle must meet the overall length requirements, etc.

JagerTroop
09-14-2008, 7:42 PM
...Some of us are still not convinced all the time we're not breaking the law...DON'T BUY OLLs THEN!!!!!! You have over 1000 posts...you are not a noob!
If you don't know the law, don't own "questionable firearms", and if you don't know the law, please don't attempt to explain them to anyone else.

Thank you

:hurray: my thoughts exactly :yes:

stockplayer
09-14-2008, 7:43 PM
Hey guys, simple solution, do not respond to his post if you do not like his questions, let someone else help him. I agree every OLL owner has the duty to know the law inside and out. I have personaly built seven OLL for friends, but I will not assemble them until them prove to me that they know what they are talking about....

Xyankee...I also agree with the guys it is time for you to do some research, but instead of ripping on you, I am going to give you a link.

http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

If you know this stuff you are good to go.

Put it buy the toilet "I did"

Erik

Young Version
09-14-2008, 8:14 PM
Really? Some of us are still not convinced all the time we're not breaking the law.
Sorry.
Those of you with Lawyers on staff can feel a little freer to take risks. I mean, maybe you don't comprehend it -- years of believing we couldn't own a particular kind of gun -- then discovering a band of miscreants who formed a website to tout their OLLs -- and you can't cut us slack? "Hit the search button?"

People want to feel like part of this rifle loving community. This isn't wikipedia, it is a forum. How many times have I seen the same questions asked by newbs here? Thousands. I smile and if I know the answer I post, if I don;t I read the other posts.

If you don't like responding, don't.

You're not going to stop people form askin "silly questions" as long as they are people.

And if you are out at the gunstore or range, and someone (not a range geek but a gun company owner - so I doubted what I already knew) takes you to task on something that is a gray area, you will want affirmation. You don't seem to have a problem with people asking where they can buy Saigas or cheap ammo --Why don't you bark at them and say "search the posts!"

You seem like a good guy, so I'm going to be friendly.

You have nothing to worry about if you read through the laws carefully. Nothing we're doing is illegal, nor is it even a gray area. We are taking advantage of the ways the laws are written and buying guns we never thought we could.

Do I have thousands of dollars to pay for a lawyer? Nope. I follow firearm laws 100%, and if some uninformed LEO wants to arrest me, that's up to him. The only thing I find ridiculous is that I could actually go to court over a completely black and white matter; anyone with half a brain could read the laws and find out I'm well within them.

In summation, don't worry. There are thousands of people who take advantage of CA gun laws and don't have any trouble. If you happen to be unlucky enough to get in trouble, you have our support, regardless of how much people may tease you for asking silly questions :p

X-NewYawker
09-14-2008, 8:25 PM
THAT's the kind of answer I needed. Thanks.

elSquid
09-14-2008, 10:15 PM
Really? Some of us are still not convinced all the time we're not breaking the law.
Sorry.
Those of you with Lawyers on staff can feel a little freer to take risks. I mean, maybe you don't comprehend it -- years of believing we couldn't own a particular kind of gun -- then discovering a band of miscreants who formed a website to tout their OLLs -- and you can't cut us slack? "Hit the search button?"

The problem is that you've already bought the gun and have taken it to the range - it's a little late for second thoughts at that point.


And if you are out at the gunstore or range, and someone (not a range geek but a gun company owner - so I doubted what I already knew) takes you to task on something that is a gray area, you will want affirmation.

You need to be comfortable explaining why your gun is legal before you go the range.

Another option is to get a 3 ring binder and store all the appropriate docs in there ( 12276.x, Harrott, flowchart, etc ) and use that as an aid if you would like something else to back you up when challenged.

-- Michael

Dragon
09-14-2008, 10:26 PM
Who cares if a question been asked a million time .If u dont like the question dont answer it ,some one nice enough will come along an answer at some point, There is never a dumb question to ask ,if u dont know the answer.

Vinz
09-15-2008, 12:08 AM
Who cares if a question been asked a million time .If u dont like the question dont answer it ,some one nice enough will come along an answer at some point, There is never a dumb question to ask ,if u dont know the answer.
You gotta understand what us noob's don't. After a million times and 2 years of this same ole stuff...it gets old. Being a veteran on a few other sites (ie: corner carvers, p-t.com LS1tech) I can understand the OG's points but they can be harsh. Internet scolding = thick skinned. Ignore the fiber lacking impatient and welcome the wise.

I have run into the same EBR haters at the ranges, you gotta get used to it, understand, know and keep what is letter of the law legal. Recently Im asked, what happens is this so-called GREY area becomes law? I answered "well then I would own a pre ban wouldn't I".

What I find most amusing is these questions will never end as long as we/others spread the EBR disease. New guys, do your homework and read the stickies And enjoy the show.


vinz=thick skinned wise asss LOL

saxman
09-15-2008, 12:18 PM
why don't you have the flow chart printed up and in your rifle case?

aplinker
09-15-2008, 1:13 PM
Who cares if a question been asked a million time .If u dont like the question dont answer it ,some one nice enough will come along an answer at some point, There is never a dumb question to ask ,if u dont know the answer.

I think you're missing the point. The OP either refuses to put any effort into understanding or is incapable of understanding a few simple logical steps. The resources are here to make it clear for anyone. Instead he continues to rant about this or that political position or why it's so different in CA, essentially deflecting his inability to understand and articulate our position.

I've personally, and have seen numerous others that have gone above and beyond trying to explain AW law to him. Yet he continues to ask the same questions and brush it off as it's so difficult to understand, rather than take the time to hash it through. Odds are he doesn't read those posts and seemingly doesn't care to actually understand it.

What's frustrating is he's in a position that it matters. If he did take the time to understand it and discuss it with outsiders from an informed and resolved position it could potentially have a huge impact on how our movement is viewed. Instead, he continues to treat it as though it's "fuzzy," "gray," or "convoluted."

It's a shame, since the potential for advocating and lobbying on behalf of CA gun owners is there. :shrug:

I've often felt I "owe" Calguns, the people who have laid the groundwork for the OLL movement, a deep debt. By far the best way to repay that debt is by advocating, sharing and championing BRD. I would hope others that have benefit from Calguns would feel and do the same.

We are a community. Each person that buys an OLL is a benefit to all the others.

However, with that purchase comes a responsibility - to know and understand how to properly configure one's rifle and how to articulate its legality. The inability to do both of those is at the detriment to us all.

technique
09-15-2008, 1:17 PM
I think you're missing the point. The OP either refuses to put any effort into understanding or is incapable of understanding a few simple logical steps. The resources are here to make it clear for anyone. Instead he continues to rant about this or that political position or why it's so different in CA, essentially deflecting his inability to understand and articulate our position.

I've personally, and have seen numerous others that have gone above and beyond trying to explain AW law to him. Yet he continues to ask the same questions and brush it off as it's so difficult to understand, rather than take the time to hash it through. Odds are he doesn't read those posts and seemingly doesn't care to actually understand it.

What's frustrating is he's in a position that it matters. If he did take the time to understand it and discuss it with outsiders from an informed and resolved position it could potentially have a huge impact on how our movement is viewed. Instead, he continues to treat it as though it's "fuzzy," "gray," or "convoluted."

It's a shame, since the potential for advocating and lobbying on behalf of CA gun owners is there. :shrug:

I've often felt I "owe" Calguns, the people who have laid the groundwork for the OLL movement, a deep debt. By far the best way to repay that debt is by advocating, sharing and championing BRD. I would hope others that have benefit from Calguns would feel and do the same.

+1, well put!

dribbler
09-15-2008, 1:29 PM
why don't you have the flow chart printed up and in your rifle case?

im planning on doing something like that, but would it would matter that the flow chart from this site isnt from the ca doj site or another "official" site?

Hopi
09-15-2008, 1:35 PM
I've often felt I "owe" Calguns, the people who have laid the groundwork for the OLL movement, a deep debt.



+1
There are those of us that feel this way. Most people know who they are. :chris:

Apparently there are others among us that feel that the Calguns.net community owes them.



Some people just don't understand how much work it was to get the OLL ball rolling. To make calls to convince FFLs, both in and out of state, that this was legal was a challenge to say the least. And that was after the lengthy and heated debates re: the matter on this forum. Many of us didn't even buy into the interpretations, despite letters from Allison.

All of you noobs (anyone that started mid '06 and later) that think Gunbroker's wide-spread examples of anti-CA sentiments is bad today, try to imagine how it was 3 years ago.....


Read, think, understand, contribute, thrive.

aplinker
09-15-2008, 1:38 PM
im planning on doing something like that, but would it would matter that the flow chart from this site isnt from the ca doj site or another "official" site?

The purpose of printing the flow chart is for your reference - think of it as cliff's notes.

You need to be able to articulate why your rifle is legal and cite the penal codes, court cases, etc., all of which are in the flow-chart. From that perspective it's very useful.

I would sincerely doubt that anyone would have any reaction to having a piece of paper shoved in their face and saying, "here." You need to explain, step-by-step, what makes a rifle legal and what doesn't.

Keep in mind 99.99% of the interactions where it's useful are of the friendly to light ribbing variety. Take even seemingly negative reactions to your rifle to be an opportunity to inform people and you'll find things can go really well.

I've had a good number of people who started with a statement between, "your rifle is illegal" to "I didn't think we could get those," that ended with new converts.

Again, it's your responsibility to be able to articulate and understand how and why it's legal. We're here to help. If you get caught on any particular point, check the newbie thread for references and read the penal code yourself, then feel free to ask questions. :)

dribbler
09-15-2008, 2:01 PM
The purpose of printing the flow chart is for your reference - think of it as cliff's notes.

You need to be able to articulate why your rifle is legal and cite the penal codes, court cases, etc., all of which are in the flow-chart. From that perspective it's very useful.

I would sincerely doubt that anyone would have any reaction to having a piece of paper shoved in their face and saying, "here." You need to explain, step-by-step, what makes a rifle legal and what doesn't.

Keep in mind 99.99% of the interactions where it's useful are of the friendly to light ribbing variety. Take even seemingly negative reactions to your rifle to be an opportunity to inform people and you'll find things can go really well.

I've had a good number of people who started with a statement between, "your rifle is illegal" to "I didn't think we could get those," that ended with new converts.

Again, it's your responsibility to be able to articulate and understand how and why it's legal. We're here to help. If you get caught on any particular point, check the newbie thread for references and read the penal code yourself, then feel free to ask questions. :)

thank you:cool:

elSquid
09-15-2008, 2:14 PM
What's frustrating is he's in a position that it matters. If he did take the time to understand it and discuss it with outsiders from an informed and resolved position it could potentially have a huge impact on how our movement is viewed. Instead, he continues to treat it as though it's "fuzzy," "gray," or "convoluted."

It's a shame, since the potential for advocating and lobbying on behalf of CA gun owners is there. :shrug:

I used to think the same; I figured that an article in "Guns", etc would be the next big step in pushing the OLL movement further.

Now, post-Heller, I'm less concerned. I figure that the AW registry will be tossed/modified in the not-too-distant future, and that neutered rifles will become a memory.

I've often felt I "owe" Calguns, the people who have laid the groundwork for the OLL movement, a deep debt. By far the best way to repay that debt is by advocating, sharing and championing BRD. I would hope others that have benefit from Calguns would feel and do the same.

I agree with the debt owed. I came to OLLs relatively late, so I am riding on the coattails of those who didn't shy away from challenging the DOJ.

I'd disagree on how to repay the debt, though. It is valuable to bring others into the OLL fold, but it's also important to come together and donate to the Calguns Foundation. Once we get incorporation it'll be time to go on the offensive, and that takes money. Thanks to the planning of other members of this forum, we have an AW challenge case just waiting to go. The only thing that the "rank and file" calguns members - like myself - need to do is help cover the legal costs.

So for anyone who hasn't already done so, please consider giving to CGF (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=108030).

-- Michael

NiteQwill
09-15-2008, 4:15 PM
Very well put uclaplinker, bravo.