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palakaboy
09-13-2008, 7:59 AM
being on a college budget needs me to built my guns piece by piece...

can someone pls pm me info regarding building an m1a.

i just want a simple M1a, no forward rails- just a scope mount with an eotech and a fiberglass body.

saki302
09-13-2008, 8:22 AM
you will save a LOT of money by buying a built one.

If you build it piece by piece, you may end up with a better built rifle if you pick the right parts, but you will pay a LOT more.

-Dave

palakaboy
09-13-2008, 8:27 AM
if a better outcome can be expected by building piece by piece i think it's a better value as i'll learn as much as possible about my rifle.

i built my AR with the same thought process and it came about pretty well.

it's not really the lack of money that has me buiding piece by piece- it's the lack of a stable monthly income- if i can buy a reciever now then a barrel next paycheck then the body along with some other parts the next and so on...

OCArmory
09-13-2008, 8:34 AM
PM me with what info you are specifically looking for . Also try www.m14tfl.com. very helpful site. I just finished my all Winchester build. And can tell you it cost way more than buying one.

6079Winston
09-13-2008, 9:30 AM
I agree with your logic but not the economics. Maybe there sould be a CALguns GRANT program, or maybe there is someone on this site who can play fast and loose with student loans. If you had a minor in Gunsmithing, wouldn't this qualify as an educational expense?

tlillard23
09-13-2008, 9:30 AM
I recently built a M1A with all G.I. parts (a springfield receiver from a CG'er). total cost about $900, but I got all of my parts from a friend that gave me a good deal. he also barreled and headspaced it for me. You MIGHT be able to build one for about the same price if you hurry up and look for parts. The prices of parts are going up QUICK. especially the GI parts.

Otherwise, just keep an eye out for a used M1A. Try glock talk or something. I didn't find anything good on warrifles.com, firingline, m14.com etc. Just a bunch of overpriced plastic-tacticool-crap or really pricey "match" guns. You probably are not going to win anything with a M1A anymore, the AR's are taking over. (unless it's a M1A specific match)

as for building, It's not really that much. After the barreling, you just slide everything together. If you can't figure it out, you need to sell all of your guns and sharp objects..... :kest:

1911_Mitch
09-13-2008, 12:45 PM
Check out chestnutridge.com for a diagram of all the parts that you need.

leelaw
09-13-2008, 1:01 PM
if a better outcome can be expected by building piece by piece i think it's a better value as i'll learn as much as possible about my rifle.

i built my AR with the same thought process and it came about pretty well.

it's not really the lack of money that has me buiding piece by piece- it's the lack of a stable monthly income- if i can buy a reciever now then a barrel next paycheck then the body along with some other parts the next and so on...

You will build a better, but incredibly higher priced M1A is you purchase piece by piece.

Building an M1A isn't like building an AR15 in regards to building by pieces. For an AR, you can save a little money by purchasing part by part, but it just doesn't happen with an M1A (barring a steal of a deal somewhere).

It'd be like building a car part-by-part - you'll get close to the same thing, but you'll spend one heck of a lot more money (I'm remembering back to a Consumer Reports from years back, where they priced out what a Range Rover would cost, bought part-by-part, and it came out at an incredibly inflated number from the sticker price)

It might be more worth your while to invest in a credit card, purchase the rifle, and make payments to get it over and done with over the course of 6 months, or however long you need.

Mssr. Eleganté
09-13-2008, 3:20 PM
If you have a few years to scour the internet and gunshows for parts, you could probably build a basic M1A for $1800.

BlackReef
09-13-2008, 3:42 PM
wow, the OP wasn't looking for financial advice.

I asked this same question last year, and I got the same responses 'it would be cheaper to buy a completed rifle!' I ended up giving up on the project because I couldn't get any real information on where to get parts, etc. Alot of times people like to build their own stuff because it is an experience, not necessarily because it's cheaper...

Mikeb
09-13-2008, 3:56 PM
CMP?

6079Winston
09-13-2008, 5:01 PM
Since the M-14 has been rediscovered in the sandbox, parts have been getting scarce. Stocks are plentiful, some trigger group parts interchange with the M-1 and there are several receivers available but certain parts like operating rods and chrome lined GI barrels are rare. I think I know where a parts kit is, and am almost ready to pay or trade what the guy wants for it. This is one case where it is probably best to get critical parts first and the receiver near the end.

Astig Boy
09-13-2008, 5:16 PM
Saying just buy a complete rifle is stupid IMO. You dont know what you get when you just buy a complete rifle. A base model SAI M1A is cheaper because nothing on that rifle is USGI anymore...in other words, a complete rifle is cheaper because you get Taiwan parts. Buy a SAI receiver with all USGI parts and it is the same price buying it piece by piece. Or get lucky and find some bastard selling an older SAI rifle(which would typically have mostly USGI parts also). Piece by piece is better IMO, you get what you want...no mix-master parts kit, or some NM heavy barrel that you aren't looking for. Same with an AR...I can get a AR for $700....but you know dam well it doesnt have all the parts you like.

You can find all the parts you need on www.m14tfl.com. Just have to be patient for them to pop up and jump on them when you can. USGI parts are getting expensive but they are still reasonably priced on the m14 forum.

Critical parts list:
Op Rod
Gas system
Trigger group
Bolt
Barrel
Sights
Receiver

The above list is what you should be looking out for. Everything else is easy to find and plentiful.

palakaboy
09-13-2008, 5:19 PM
i'm looking to start with the reciever of course!

i've been a member on the firing line for over a year and still havent seen an M1a receiver....

thanks for the input fellas (if any, ladies)

Prc329
09-13-2008, 7:51 PM
You will be better off looking for a used Polytech or something along those lines. You are gonna pay threw the nose to build a USGI rifle. Worth the money but expensive.

aplinker
09-13-2008, 8:23 PM
building an M14 is nothing like an AR from a parts availability standpoint.

Dozens of companies compete to make AR parts and there are huge USGI contracts.

Springfield is the only large scale manuf of M14 style rifles. They don't sell parts and you wouldn't want them vs USGI. A non-Springfield (and non-chinese) receiver from LRB or Fulton will cost you nearly as much as a basic M1A.

No one is offering easy answers and advice, cause there just isn't any. You'll have to do a lot more searching to find what you need and it definitely won't be cheap.

saki302
09-13-2008, 8:35 PM
Apparently someone has NO IDEA what USGI parts sell for these days. I've seen TRW bolts sell for >$300 stripped.
Buying a complete rifle is stupid? Springfield parts made in Taiwan? Oh please. :rolleyes: They are made HERE. The only Chinese made parts will be found on Norinco, Century arms, and Federal Ordnance guns (a whole different story for another post- but if we could still buy Norincos for the $399 they go for in Canada, it would be a deal).

Anyone nowadays who builds a USGI parts rifle without bedding it and buying the better lugged receiver is a fool. Sure way to waste an expensive parts kit with little benefit except bragging rights.
There's also a reason no one builds accurized M1As without using NM barrels. Less desireable heavy barrel? funny. I'll take the Kreiger over USGI any day.

Also- Springfield Armory has a lifetime warranty. You build it? Nothing. Unless you have a friend who knows how to barrel and headspace one, you're paying for that too. And resale value? Need I go on? If you can build a USGI rifle for $900, more power to you. I would bet you can't. Maybe double it?

If you manage to put together a full TRW USGI kit now, I highly sugggest sending it to Fulton or one of the other reputable builders to have it built right. You will get your money back and more, should you ever decide to sell it.

-Dave

saki302
09-13-2008, 8:38 PM
Fulton sells receivers, but they're on back order:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/MAParts.htm

They also sell complete rifles- make sure you sit down first :D
http://www.fulton-armory.com/MARifles.htm

-Dave

Prc329
09-13-2008, 9:38 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/Guns/_MG_0230.jpg

I paid $750 for her and she has been a lot of fun. This is how I got her but she is a little different now. Karsten painted USGI stock is on her now and she runs like a champ.

http://imageseek.com/karsten/ Stock cost me $275 and was worth every penny. I will eventually rebarrel her with a 18" barrel and upgrade the bolt at the same time. I'm not trying to shot sub MOA with her, just MOZ (minute of Zombie).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/Guns/_MG_0760.jpg

She no longer wears an clonepoint. BTW the clone point took 100 rounds as fast as the range would let me fire them and kept going. That hand guard (she wears the USGI painted guard noe) got so hot I could barely touch it. She also wears NM sights. I think total I spend $1125 and I'm happy. She is a FedOrd and the serial dates to Chinese parts.

Tony.
09-13-2008, 9:54 PM
i'm looking to start with the reciever of course!

i've been a member on the firing line for over a year and still havent seen an M1a receiver....

thanks for the input fellas (if any, ladies)

There is a LRB receiver for sale on M14TFL.com right now. It's $930 shipped (not mine) and it's in CA.

CrazyJeep
09-13-2008, 10:45 PM
There is a LRB receiver for sale on M14TFL.com right now. It's $930 shipped (not mine) and it's in CA.

That price is a bit high. You can buy directly through LRB and get the receiver for $819 not including shipping. So maybe it equals to the same. I never seem to remember what dealers are asking for when it comes to a PPT transfer.

saki302
09-13-2008, 10:53 PM
[Karsten painted USGI stock is on her now and she runs like a champ.


I'm liking that stock :D

I had heard the scout mounts got very hot when firing, but never tried one myself.

-Dave

CrazyJeep
09-13-2008, 11:02 PM
Apparently someone has NO IDEA what USGI parts sell for these days. I've seen TRW bolts sell for >$300 stripped.
Yet there are people out there who will pay that price.
Buying a complete rifle is stupid? Springfield parts made in Taiwan? Oh please. :rolleyes: They are made HERE. They have contracted parts that were made overseas, maybe not Taiwan, but certainly overseas. Their receivers from what I have heard/read aren't even made in the United StatesThe only Chinese made parts will be found on Norinco, Century arms, and Federal Ordnance guns (a whole different story for another post- but if we could still buy Norincos for the $399 they go for in Canada, it would be a deal).

Anyone nowadays who builds a USGI parts rifle without bedding it and buying the better lugged receiver is a fool. That statement has no merit. It's just like saying AR owners who don't have a free floating handguard are fools. When they were originally made, none were bedded. I built mine to be a battle rifle, rack grade.Sure way to waste an expensive parts kit with little benefit except bragging rights.
There's also a reason no one builds accurized M1As without using NM barrels. Less desireable heavy barrel? funny. I'll take the Kreiger over USGI any day.

Also- Springfield Armory has a lifetime warranty. You build it? Nothing. Unless you have a friend who knows how to barrel and headspace one, you're paying for that too. And resale value? Need I go on? If you can build a USGI rifle for $900, more power to you. I would bet you can't. Maybe double it?

If you manage to put together a full TRW USGI kit now, I highly sugggest sending it to Fulton or one of the other reputable builders to have it built right. You will get your money back and more, should you ever decide to sell it.

-Dave

Why people get all antcy in their pantsy about a "warranty" is beyond me.:nuts: Also, although Fulton does a nice job on their rifles, there are other options out there who will build a rifle for you quicker and especially with a better price.

Prc329
09-13-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm liking that stock :D

I had heard the scout mounts got very hot when firing, but never tried one myself.

-Dave

The one in that pic (ultimak) is actually IMHO one of the better units out there. It sits very low and under normal shooting it stayed warm to the touch but not burn you hot. The rapid 100 rounds did get it pretty hot that it was hard to touch it for extended time (read more then a couple of seconds).

ar15barrels
09-13-2008, 11:56 PM
Every couple weeks, drop $200 in a coffee can.
When the coffee can has $2000 in it, order up a rifle.

Astig Boy
09-14-2008, 1:05 AM
Apparently someone has NO IDEA what USGI parts sell for these days. I've seen TRW bolts sell for >$300 stripped.
Buying a complete rifle is stupid? Springfield parts made in Taiwan? Oh please. :rolleyes: They are made HERE. The only Chinese made parts will be found on Norinco, Century arms, and Federal Ordnance guns (a whole different story for another post- but if we could still buy Norincos for the $399 they go for in Canada, it would be a deal).

Anyone nowadays who builds a USGI parts rifle without bedding it and buying the better lugged receiver is a fool. Sure way to waste an expensive parts kit with little benefit except bragging rights.
There's also a reason no one builds accurized M1As without using NM barrels. Less desireable heavy barrel? funny. I'll take the Kreiger over USGI any day.

Also- Springfield Armory has a lifetime warranty. You build it? Nothing. Unless you have a friend who knows how to barrel and headspace one, you're paying for that too. And resale value? Need I go on? If you can build a USGI rifle for $900, more power to you. I would bet you can't. Maybe double it?

If you manage to put together a full TRW USGI kit now, I highly sugggest sending it to Fulton or one of the other reputable builders to have it built right. You will get your money back and more, should you ever decide to sell it.

-Dave

Obviously DAVE you dont know what you are talking about and never have built a M14 rifle. Just because "someone" was willing to take it up the rear for a $300 TRW bolt does not mean that is the norm. Theres a TRW bolt on M14tfl.com right now for $165!...goes to show how much you know. Ive seen all M14 rifles with one brand manufacture parts built on a TRW receiver sell for $2000...yes, IMO that is a bargain...much better then a $1800 M1A with 95% Taiwan parts. I guess you missed the memo where Springfield Armory Inc "contracted" Wayne Machine Inc. in manufacturing their M1A parts. http://waynemachine.com.tw/ SAI M1A parts are made in Taiwan!...not the good ol U. S. of A. you would like to believe. Dont you feel like a sucker now knowing SAI con'd you in to believing you were getting an ALL AMERICAN rifle. bwahahah!

Warranties are a joke. Thats like bragging about your car warranty. Who cares. Most true M14 enthusiasts dont care about that...just like muscle cars you build from the ground up...you have an issue, no big surprise there. I'll gladly ship it off to get it fixed. Hell, go to a reputable builder like Warbird or Ted Brown and you wont have to worry about it failing on you...and those guys stand behind their work...so much for lifetime warranties. If you are so worried about your brand new rifle failing on you and you are not willing spend some cash, then you are in the wrong hobby. If you want to go cheap, just get a Polytech...you get a chromelined barrel, the same parts quality you will find on a SAI M1A, hundreds of dollars cheaper then a M1A, and to top it off the Polytech receiver is built more to spec!

Dave, by you recommending "Fulton" goes to show how little you know. Man, what a joke. :rolleyes:

vf111
09-14-2008, 1:31 AM
Ive seen all M14 rifles with one brand manufacture parts built on a TRW receiver sell for $2000...yes, IMO that is a bargain...

This can't be right - an M14 (not M1A) built on a TRW receiver would be a "machine gun" and would cost way more than $2K.

Back to the OP, I collected over the course of two years a complete TRW parts kit and sent it off to LRB to build on one of their standard receivers. Bearing in mind I had the rifle built two years ago, I probably got out the door w/ DROS and shipping back to my FFL at about $2K. That works out to be about $500 less than LRB's rack grade M14SA w/ a commercial barrel. As a bonus, the collectivity of an LRB is much higher than an M1A. Don't bother w/ Fulton - Armscorp makes their receivers and you can save some real scratch just buying an Armscorp (the Firing Line may still have their Group Buy on Armscorp receivers active).

BTW, Taiwan makes good stuff and they were the only country other than the US to manufacture and issue the M14 to their armed forces. While the Wayne Machine parts aren't the same as the best USGI parts, they're also not junk.

Good luck w/ your endeavor - the only other word of advice I can give you is M14/ M1A's have a tendency to mulitply.....:)

Astig Boy
09-14-2008, 10:27 AM
This can't be right - an M14 (not M1A) built on a TRW receiver would be a "machine gun" and would cost way more than $2K.

Opps, my mistake there. I meant to say LRB, not TRW. But there was a company back in the early 80s that took authentic machine gun M14 receivers and built them in to semi-auto only rifles and reregistered then with the ATF as such for civilian use.


BTW, Taiwan makes good stuff and they were the only country other than the US to manufacture and issue the M14 to their armed forces. While the Wayne Machine parts aren't the same as the best USGI parts, they're also not junk.

I never once said parts made in Taiwan were junk. They are good for civilian use. BUT people just like to believe they are "buying American" when they buy a SAI M1A all the while frowning upon Norinco/Polytech M14s as if their rifles were any better. I guess what I am trying to simply say, SAI M1A = NOT ALL AMERICAN.

toolman9000
09-14-2008, 10:59 AM
I have had two M14's built from parts USGI parts by Warbird, the first one built in 2004 ended up costing $900 OTD, and the one I got built last year cost $1300... and that was using a lot of parts I got in 2005-06. I sold off the rest of my major parts that was for a third build for over $900.

The price of parts has gone through the roof and now there are many suspect parts out there - In 2004 you could buy complete TRW trigger groups from Northridge Inc. for $80 and Stripped Bolts for $85; and a case of Aussie 7.62x51 was $120. I got my first TRW OpRod from Elmer Ballance for $100. Oh, and my first compete USGI all NIW parts kit cost only $600, there was one that just sold for $1350 on the CMP forum and none of the parts were in the original wrap.

Right now I would buy a complete rifle and not choose to build another - for $1200-1400 you can find a rifle that was built by Warbird or Ted Brown, You just have to keep your eyes on the forums.

-toolman9000

tlillard23
09-14-2008, 1:42 PM
Right now I would buy a complete rifle and not choose to build another - for $1200-1400 you can find a rifle that was built by Warbird or Ted Brown, You just have to keep your eyes on the forums.

-toolman9000

Unless you have a friend with parts, or you are willing to take a long time to find the parts, this might be the best bet. But, I heard the same thing before I built mine. I started trying to find the receiver in 2003, built the rifle in 2007. I should have done it the other way around. Buy parts WHILE looking for a receiver.

saki302
09-14-2008, 11:37 PM
Astig Boy, now you say send the parts to a reputable builder to build it? What happened to saving money? Sure, he can do that- and end up with a $2000-3000 rifle easy (talking about building one TODAY, not 5 years ago). It will be a nice rifle no doubt, but you are missing the WHOLE point here, which is how to get one cheaper. A warranty is useless until something breaks. Then what are you going to do? Would you buy a new car with no warranty? If a reputable builder is willing to honor his work, that's fine, but you're paying for that too. You can probably score a nice used SA standard rifle for around $1000-1100 now.

Springfield parts made in TW is news to me- do you have a copy of this memo? And again, do you have any evidence of recently made SA parts failing? I bet not. but I would still like to see this memo. As for my own M1As, I just traded one which had a TRW op rod and HRA bolt. As to the ones I'm keeping, lets say I'm not crying over taiwanese parts :D

Fulton is but one of a few builders out there, but an easy example to search on here. I didn't recommend them explicitly so much as post an example. But I surely would rather have them build my rifle than YOU. What evidence do you have that Fulton doesn't make a top notch rifle? Owners' posts say otherwise. They are pricier than some, but well known as a quality outfit.

Also, nothing wrong with Armscorp and Norinco recievers (I did hear Fulton was going to use Armscorp ones, but didn't follow up on it as I had no plans to buy one).

-Dave

PS- I would stay away from 'rewelded' M14 receivers. For those looking into one, read up on it on the net. It can be done well, but you don't know how well yours is done until it fails, or not.

saki302
09-14-2008, 11:43 PM
Ps- crazyjeep-

It's probably a little harsh to say a standard build was wasteful, but that's just one guy's opinion.

And yes, all my AR's do have free floated barrels :D

-Dave

Astig Boy
09-15-2008, 10:40 AM
Astig Boy, now you say send the parts to a reputable builder to build it? What happened to saving money? Sure, he can do that- and end up with a $2000-3000 rifle easy (talking about building one TODAY, not 5 years ago). It will be a nice rifle no doubt, but you are missing the WHOLE point here, which is how to get one cheaper. A warranty is useless until something breaks. Then what are you going to do? Would you buy a new car with no warranty? If a reputable builder is willing to honor his work, that's fine, but you're paying for that too. You can probably score a nice used SA standard rifle for around $1000-1100 now.

Springfield parts made in TW is news to me- do you have a copy of this memo? And again, do you have any evidence of recently made SA parts failing? I bet not. but I would still like to see this memo. As for my own M1As, I just traded one which had a TRW op rod and HRA bolt. As to the ones I'm keeping, lets say I'm not crying over taiwanese parts :D

Fulton is but one of a few builders out there, but an easy example to search on here. I didn't recommend them explicitly so much as post an example. But I surely would rather have them build my rifle than YOU. What evidence do you have that Fulton doesn't make a top notch rifle? Owners' posts say otherwise. They are pricier than some, but well known as a quality outfit.

Also, nothing wrong with Armscorp and Norinco recievers (I did hear Fulton was going to use Armscorp ones, but didn't follow up on it as I had no plans to buy one).

-Dave

PS- I would stay away from 'rewelded' M14 receivers. For those looking into one, read up on it on the net. It can be done well, but you don't know how well yours is done until it fails, or not.

I believe the OP(Palakaboy) has already made his decision to build a rifle "piece by piece" and not a complete rifle being he is on a college budget. He did not state he was looking to buy a cheap complete rifle. The OP also stated he is looking to build the rifle himself as he has his AR in order to learn the in's and out's of the rifle. So why are members here recommending a complete rifle is beyond me. Of course the rifle is going to cost more in the end, but this is the best feasible way for a guy who is on a college budget and wants to learn the rifle.

And here is the memo you missed. For you and for everyone else.
M14 Rifle History and Development
By Lee Emerson
www.imageseek.com/m1a/M14RHD1228public.rtf
As quoted by Lee Emerson
Wayne Machine, Inc. - Since the mid-1980s, Wayne Machine, Inc. of Taipei, Taiwan has made and supplied reproduction M14 parts to Springfield Armory, Inc., Sarco, Inc. and Numrich Gun Parts Corporation. These reproduction parts usually function in a satisfactory manner when fitted and assembled correctly. In 1997, Numrich Gun Parts Corporation received a shipment of cast reproduction operating rods from Taiwan. They had Winchester markings. Apparently, Wayne Machine, Inc. had been sent a Winchester M14 operating rod as a sample.
If you dont believe me and if you dont believe Lee Emerson, go to M14tfl.com and make a post....this is no big secret.

Not once did I say Taiwan parts are junk. Not once did I say SAI parts are junk either. They hold up very well(for civilian use). If you are happy with their parts, more power to you...I sure dont care what parts people like on their rifle. I am just letting others know the news on whats out there.

There are satisfied customers with Fulton as there are with any company. Ever wonder why they are hardly talked about on M14tfl? There have been too many bad instances dealing with Fulton on the M14tfl.com forum(services took way too long, and members had hard times getting their rifles back). When M14tfl first developed the list of reputable M14 smiths and builders, they left Fultons name off the list for sometime. Fulton went so far to make a webpage bad mouthing the Norincos/Polytech M14s and calling them junk, when most members on M14tfl proved they were a bargain and were excellent shooters with Taiwan parts...and because of this issue, most members lost respect for Fulton. I bought one for $675 in 04(right before everything skyrocket'd)...I would say that was a bargain...and I was quite happy with my "Chinese" parts. :D

DB2
09-15-2008, 11:01 AM
As many have said building a rifle from parts would be much cooler then buying one. But even if you score a receiver for 500, a bolt for 200, a trigger group for 150, and so on, you'll save in the long run by buying a rifle. I just found a friend of mine a Springfield M1A all GI parts, NM sights with probably 40 rounds through it. $1300 dollars and it's BEAUTIFUL. Your going to be VERY hard pressed to put a rifle together for that price nowadays.

saki302
09-15-2008, 4:08 PM
When I see the current price of Norinco M14s in Canada, I feel like I want to cry- $399? :(
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-14S.shtm
Stupid ban...

i did some more reading last night on the Taiwan issue- I didn't find the memo (thanks for the link BTW), but I did read that SA originally sold the USGI tooling to Taiwan, who in turn sold it to the Chinese. So TW and Chinese parts should be USGI spec, with the exception of heat treating (not part of the tooling!)

My only complaint on my Springfields (older USGI part guns) was the dreadful stock finish. Fixed with an afternoon of work :D

I will have to check out m14tfl.com tonight :)

-Dave

BDH
09-15-2008, 7:59 PM
Unless Fulton has found a new supplier, you won't see receivers there unless they sell LRB or SA. Armscorp doesn't make receivers anymore for the M14 platform. James River almost got Armscorp's receiver business up and running but they pulled out. Different's site quoted earlier here may have more info. I have and Armscorp already built and a James River still unassembled but with all the parts. Patience is the key. There is only one supplier of Springfield bare receivers to my knowledge and that's Champion's Choice out of Tennessee.

http://www.champchoice.com/shop.php?pline=M1ARIF

They have SA receivers in stock according to their web site and are one of the best suppliers of competition 'stuff.'
The posts about the TFL site PX are dead on. If you are dilligent, you will find what you want, supplemented by other purchases. If you want a 'new' bbl, buy a Criterion. They go for about $225 and work great.
By the way, if I remember, SA's receivers are cast in Canada...but just like a Chevy or Ford, you can buy it here!
Good luck!

Bruce

E Pluribus Unum
09-15-2008, 10:03 PM
If you like the M1A/M14 and are on a shoestring budget, I would buy a CMP M1 Garand. They can be had for about $500 and shoot just as well.

BDH
09-15-2008, 10:41 PM
And with the Garand, ammunition is very reasonable and readily available from the CMP.
http://www.odcmp.com/
Good luck!
Bruce

saki302
09-16-2008, 12:30 AM
I never thought I would see the day .30-06 surplus was cheaper than .308, but it is here....

Astig Boy
09-16-2008, 10:32 AM
I never thought I would see the day .30-06 surplus was cheaper than .308, but it is here....

Cheaper then both 5.56 and 7.62NATO. haha :D
I hear 30.06 surplus is NOT in short supply either unlike 7.62NATO...I heard CMP got about 10million rounds in not to long ago. I dont have a Garand yet, but this sure helps feed my M1941. They did bump the price up a little a couple months ago, but still cheap none-the-less.

Jarhead
09-16-2008, 8:45 PM
buy a complete rifle, take it all apart and put ut back together?

CrazyJeep
09-16-2008, 8:47 PM
buy a complete rifle, take it all apart and put ut back together?

Did they teach you how to be clever in the military?

Jarhead
09-16-2008, 8:54 PM
he wants to learn, what better way - plus he can save some money. Or spend the money sending his store bought M-14 type to an armourer and have it accurized. Anyway most parts for sale at good prices are parts that were replaced with better or not USGI.

Semper Fi

CrazyJeep
09-16-2008, 9:00 PM
he wants to learn, what better way - plus he can save some money. Or spend the money sending his store bought M-14 type to an armourer and have it accurized. Anyway most parts for sale at good prices are parts that were replaced with better or not USGI.

Semper Fi

Maybe I don't see the logic in buying a complete rifle only to tear it down, sell the parts, then send it off to be built again. It's almost like 2 steps back for one step forward. If a person isn't in a hurry to have a complete rifle, it's much more feasible and economical to buy it piece by piece and once all of the parts are collected, send it off to be built. Doing it that way won't hurt the pocket book so much. Yes there will be more money put into the rifle, however the cost has been spread out over a long period of time.

Cato
09-16-2008, 9:08 PM
It's cheaper if you saved your money and bought one. Otherwise it's like buying a car...piece by piece. And by mail for that matter!

palakaboy
09-17-2008, 2:34 AM
It's cheaper if you saved your money and bought one. Otherwise it's like buying a car...piece by piece. And by mail for that matter!

personally i think that's one of the most naive responses i've seen in a while. did you even bother to read my first post?

obviously you've never heard of a project car before. you build those from the ground up, many times piece by piece.

and no jarhead. i'm not just gonna purchase a rifle to take it apart and put it back together.

part of the experience of having a gun for me is putting it together and having it shoot well. i'm a hobbyist and this rifle is NOT gonna be a duty rifle.



i built my ar15 piece by piece and it shoots very well, and i dont have any of those pesky loose parts around my house. * i dont disregard the usefulness of spare parts- but sometimes excess parts take up space and are a pain in the *** to sell*



i can't believe that this thread went on to 5 pages on how i should just buy a complete rifle.

seriously, i asked for info on building my own rifle- not what your opinions are on whether or not to build or to buy complete.

thanks to those who gave useful information about this.

if anyone is offended, sorry for being blunt, but i feel as if alot of the people that posted here never even read my first post.

Jarhead
09-17-2008, 7:43 AM
Maybe I don't see the logic in buying a complete rifle only to tear it down, sell the parts, then send it off to be built again. It's almost like 2 steps back for one step forward. If a person isn't in a hurry to have a complete rifle, it's much more feasible and economical to buy it piece by piece and once all of the parts are collected, send it off to be built. Doing it that way won't hurt the pocket book so much. Yes there will be more money put into the rifle, however the cost has been spread out over a long period of time.

No No jeep, take it apart to last spring and then reassemble it - don't sell off parts use existing parts. He gets his excercise and intimate knowledge of the small parts, maybe even replaces a few non USGI parts and he's happily ever after.

Best place to spend the large amount of cash he saves buying a complete rifle he spends on a Accurizing. Plus another Tip, you should have spare parts for every rifle you own - they won't take up much room.

palakaboy
09-17-2008, 8:53 AM
like i said. i dont mind spare parts but i've seen people with three or four barrels laying around...

multiple plastic handguards...

stuff like that.

i like to keep my gearbox as compact as possible. i've got a few critical moving parts aside like another LPK, bcg, and one barrel...

ar15barrels
09-17-2008, 8:57 AM
i built my ar15 piece by piece and it shoots very well,

I think the fatal flaw in your logic is that AR and M1A's are completely different types of guns.
It's a standard practice to build an AR piece-by-piece as there are so many different options available for any given piece.
It's NOT standard practice to build an M1A that way though and there are really not all that many options for each given piece.
Sure there are some pieces where you have a choice, but not all that many given how many pieces each rifle has.

I still contend that the best option is to put away money as you can and then buy a complete rifle that's already configured how you want it.
Wait for the deal to come up on a big-name builder's rifle and you will have a great gun for less than you could have built it.

Sumo99
09-17-2008, 9:21 AM
If you are set on building your own, may I suggest these books:
The M-14 Owners Guide by Scott Duff & John Miller
M-14 Complete Assembly Guide by Walt Kuleck & Clint McKee

Also check out this website: http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/

Jarhead
09-17-2008, 10:07 AM
The M14-M1 Garand Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen

CrazyJeep
09-17-2008, 11:16 AM
like i said. i dont mind spare parts but i've seen people with three or four barrels laying around...

multiple plastic handguards...

stuff like that.

i like to keep my gearbox as compact as possible. i've got a few critical moving parts aside like another LPK, bcg, and one barrel...

Buying spare parts has become addicting and I'm guilty of stockpiling them. Eventually, I know all of my parts are going to turn into another rifle. :chris:
Here's a pic of the stocks I have for one rifle not including the a like new synthetic stock I just recently bought (not shown in picture).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/crazyjeeper/LRB%20M14/LRBandStocks.jpg

Astig Boy
09-17-2008, 11:16 AM
It's cheaper if you saved your money and bought one. Otherwise it's like buying a car...piece by piece. And by mail for that matter!

i built my ar15 piece by piece and it shoots very well,






I think the fatal flaw in your logic is that AR and M1A's are completely different types of guns.
It's a standard practice to build an AR piece-by-piece as there are so many different options available for any given piece.
It's NOT standard practice to build an M1A that way though and there are really not all that many options for each given piece.
Sure there are some pieces where you have a choice, but not all that many given how many pieces each rifle has.

I still contend that the best option is to put away money as you can and then buy a complete rifle that's already configured how you want it.
Wait for the deal to come up on a big-name builder's rifle and you will have a great gun for less than you could have built it.

A lot of you people dont know what you are talking about. BUILDING A M14 IS NOT DIFFICULT! It IS just like building an AR15. If you havent built an M14 then you really need not post. The hardest part is installing the barrel and headspacing bolt. Everything else is just as easy as putting together an AR15...there are no special tricks to it.

Building your own rifle is going to cost ~$2000. Buying a SAI M14 that will come close to what you want is going to be around ~$1800...and it still 98% filled with non-USGI commercial cast parts from Taiwan(something most people new to M1As dont know about until they do some research). You spend $300-400 more building it yourself, BUT you get the barrel you specifically want, the stock you specifically want, you can unitize and accurize during the process, and the whole entire rifle is ALL USGI FORGED parts...and to top it off you get the satisfaction of knowing you built it yourself...to me that is worth the extra money. If you take a $1800 SAI M14 and replace them all with USGI parts, it essentially equals out. If you are in to muscle cars then you probably have seen Barrett Jackson auction and you know how much these project cars can cost complete!(they cost more then building it yourself). These are not cars. So stop with the analogy of "it is just like building a car piece by piece so dont do it", because it not.

Jarhead
09-17-2008, 1:24 PM
receiver $400.00 ( 800.00 for LRB ); stock $150.00 ( 400.00 for McMillan ), trigger group; 250.00; bolt 300.00; compensator 150.00; gas cylinder 150.00; op rod 250.00; rear site 150.00; trigger group 250.00...........that is probably 2K so far plus a **** load of small parts costing 15-30.00 each???? Not even considering that USGI parts are hard to find or they are counterfit, then the tools unless you are paying someone another 200.00 to install and hed space the barrel, an this is with out a match barrel and with regular stock. You are probably looking at 2500.00 - 2700.00 for the basicly same rifle Turners sells for $1600.00.

no sweat off my brows which way you go but you did ask?

CrazyJeep
09-17-2008, 1:27 PM
...basicly same rifle Turners sells for $1600.00.


I wouldn't go that far. I'd say "...basically looks and funtions the same rifle Turners sells for $1600.00

I've handled new Springfield Armory M1A rifles and they feel cheap.

saki302
09-17-2008, 1:49 PM
Do you know someone (good!) in the So Cal area who installs M14 barrels?

My riflesmith can do it, but I'd have to buy him a few tools he doesn't have- receiver wrench (not too bad), but the killer is the pull-through chamber reamer. That's pricey.

-Dave

PS- I glass bedded my buddy's M1A in exchange for a unitized gas system.. It turned out nice, but I don't think I want to go through that again.. ever!

snaggletooth
09-17-2008, 1:50 PM
Just buy a LRB arms rifle, it has USGI parts except for the receiver, flash hider and the op rod, everything else would be USGI, plus you get a hammer forged receiver and chrome lined barrel if you like. The cost is going to be like 2300-2400 just like building an m1a with USGI parts, just you dont have to build it and its got a better receiver in that its to spec unlike some Springfield Armory rifles I've seen. Thats just my thoughts. Of course everyone is entitle to their own.

Jarhead
09-17-2008, 2:18 PM
there it is, the solution to all the issues, I have two a standard and an M25 and you can't go wrong with an LRB. especially if your willing to burn money on a parts gun.

http://www.lrbarms.com/rifles1.html

Astig Boy
09-17-2008, 3:34 PM
receiver $400.00 ( 800.00 for LRB ); stock $150.00 ( 400.00 for McMillan ), trigger group; 250.00; bolt 300.00; compensator 150.00; gas cylinder 150.00; op rod 250.00; rear site 150.00; trigger group 250.00...........that is probably 2K so far plus a **** load of small parts costing 15-30.00 each???? Not even considering that USGI parts are hard to find or they are counterfit, then the tools unless you are paying someone another 200.00 to install and hed space the barrel, an this is with out a match barrel and with regular stock. You are probably looking at 2500.00 - 2700.00 for the basicly same rifle Turners sells for $1600.00.

no sweat off my brows which way you go but you did ask?

The prices you give, I would say that would have to be brand new in the wrapper and still in the container TRW. LOL Parts are getting scarce, but they are not that rare. Most people just opt for a +90% part...everything you come across now a days will be used(what choice do we really have, all this stuff is from the early 60s).

I dont know what you mean by a **** load of small parts? Clip guide, spring guide, pins, gas plug, flashhider nut, op rod guide, bolt stop...ummm ok, how is that a lot of stuff??? Warbird charges $150 to completely assemble an M14(that includes barrel and headspacing).

Realistic figures:
$480 SAI receiver
$190 TRW bolt
$235 chromelined Criterion barrel
$165 H&R trigger group
$175 H&R Op Rod 99%
$20 Op Rod guide
$30 Op Rod spring guide Sadlak
$20 front sight NM
$130 USGI rear sight complete
$130 USGI gas system complete
$15 USGI bolt stop
$20 USGI clip guide
$65 USGI wood stock complete with hardware from Freds
$15 USGI handguards
____________________________
Total so far = $1690

All of these prices and parts(in very good serviceable condition) I found on M14tfl.com in the PX in just the first few pages. Id rather buy there from reputable members to avoid getting fake parts. And if you dont want to assemble yourself, Warbird charges $300 to repark and fully assemble your M14 with your parts. Ive seen members do wonders refinishing wood stocks from Fred. Few other miscellaneous parts like screw and pins, and your lookin at a little over $2k.

Jarhead
09-17-2008, 8:42 PM
these may help and yes my prices were new in wrapper, what else would you use on a personal build.


http://www.billricca.com/m1_m14.htm
http://www.m1garandrifle.com/M14parts.htm
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemplate.cfm?
http://www.smithenterprise.com/products04.html
http://www.sadlak.com/si_rifle_parts_main.html
http://warbirdscustomguns.com/M14-M1A.htm
http://www.tedbrownrifles.com/
http://www.chestnutridge.com/products/m14.asp
http://raparts.com/Products/m14parts.html
http://www.usarmory.com/catalog.asp?PAGE=5

sigsauer887
09-17-2008, 8:48 PM
Will springfield sell you just the receiver or no?

CrazyJeep
09-17-2008, 8:54 PM
Will springfield sell you just the receiver or no?

No. The only way you can get a stripped SAI receiver is through www.champchoice.com

Bimmer2
09-17-2008, 9:04 PM
can someone pls pm me info regarding building an m1a.

i just want a simple M1a, no forward rails- just a scope mount with an eotech and a fiberglass body.

The M14 Owners Manual, by Kulick, is great, and you should look around The Firing Line forum.

Here's info regarding building an M1A: It'll be cheaper and easier and covered under warranty if you buy one complete, just like everybody said (and just like I think everybody at The Firing Line will tell you).

And regarding the "project rifle" and "project car" analogy, you're the one who's off-base.
Everybody knows that you can always buy a complete car for less than you can build one out of parts.
Even if you're not buying a new car, you can buy a nicely restored car for a LOT less than it would cost you to restore one yourself.

So, if you want to build your own rifle, good luck, and have fun, but don't kid yourself that you're going to save any money or wind up with something better.

Ben

Astig Boy
09-17-2008, 10:24 PM
these may help and yes my prices were new in wrapper, what else would you use on a personal build.



Where you think Springfield Armory got their USGI parts back in the 80s and early 90s? You think those were new parts too? LOL OK!
:p

Fact of the matter is, USGI parts will always hold value even if they are used. These parts and rifles filled with USGI parts are only going to go up in value, not go down in value. Can't say the same for SAI commercial cast parts.

palakaboy
09-18-2008, 12:03 AM
And regarding the "project rifle" and "project car" analogy, you're the one who's off-base.
Everybody knows that you can always buy a complete car for less than you can build one out of parts.
Even if you're not buying a new car, you can buy a nicely restored car for a LOT less than it would cost you to restore one yourself.

thanks for the info, you could've left this part out. i've had a membership at the firing line for a little bit over a year.

i know it's cheaper to buy a car than build one, i think you seriously misunderstood me here.

you're seriously gonna tell me that restoring a car from the ground up is less rewarding that just buying one that someone else restored for you?


seriously, if i wanted to save money- i'd SAVE MY MONEY for a new rifle. not post to ask information about building one.

Jarhead
09-18-2008, 7:11 AM
Will springfield sell you just the receiver or no?

No SAI, but LRB will and if your going to scope her order an M-25

Astig Boy
09-18-2008, 9:40 AM
Note to self: Calguns.net = worse place to get M1A/M14 feedback. :D

Bimmer2
09-18-2008, 9:48 AM
Note to self: Calguns.net = worse place to get M1A/M14 feedback. :D

Duh, this is the "California Guns" forum, not the M1A/M14 forum.

It's great for California-specific information about ANY rifle regarding things like legal muzzle attachments and magazines and local places to shoot and local retailers.

If you're looking for really specific M1A/M14 info, then go to The Firing Line.

Ben

Astig Boy
09-18-2008, 11:20 AM
Duh, this is the "California Guns" forum, not the M1A/M14 forum.

It's great for California-specific information about ANY rifle regarding things like legal muzzle attachments and magazines and local places to shoot and local retailers.

If you're looking for really specific M1A/M14 info, then go to The Firing Line.

Ben

Yah cause you get WACK advice like this:



So, if you want to build your own rifle, good luck, and have fun, but don't kid yourself that you're going to save any money or wind up with something better.

Ben

Tell that to some who is building a 1911. "Just buy a complete custom 1911 cause its A LOT cheaper!" It is not the samething...Theres a million ways to build. Building your own M14 is the same thing as building your own 1911...its his choice. :rolleyes: Get over it already.

30Cal
09-18-2008, 2:12 PM
My $0.02:

Finding good M14 parts is now challenging. Lots of stuff out there that's used/refinished/sold-as-new. You can find new AR parts on any street corner.

Also, unless something has changed, there's zero guarantees on a bare SA Inc receiver.

Have fun and be very careful about what and who you buy parts fun.

Jarhead
09-18-2008, 2:41 PM
another site wouldn't be any easier with him, you ask for opinions you get them if you don't like them you can just take your ball and go home. otherwise you use the opinions that help and disregard the rest.

leelaw
09-18-2008, 5:01 PM
Note to self: Calguns.net = worse place to get M1A/M14 feedback. :D

Ya know, you managed to almost single-handedly turn this thread into a poo-flinging fest. From your first line declaring the advice given as "stupid", to this last gem above, it all went downhill.

Maybe you should lighten up a bit.

John Browning
09-18-2008, 5:18 PM
Just make sure that you use a reputable builder like Ted Brown. Unlike ARs, where anyone and their second-cousin can slap it together and make it work, an M1A/M14 clone doesn't work like that. There are probably about a half dozen people I'd say are really qualified builders of the M1A/M14 platform. You will have to send it to Ted Brown at the Shooters Den or Warbird. Fulton will charge you more for an inferior product, but they will build you a working rifle. As others have stated, building an AR or even an AK doesn't hold a candle to what is required to do a GOOD job on an M1A build. The AR/M1A comparison is like saying that you painted the curb in front of your house and now you're ready to paint the Mona Lisa.

If you are willing to invest a couple of years browsing for parts, you will end up with a much better rifle for a little more money as long as you send it to one of the above folks. You are undertaking a difficult, frustrating, time consuming and expensive journey, but in the end you will be rewarded.

Bimmer2
09-18-2008, 7:41 PM
thanks for the info, you could've left this part out. i've had a membership at the firing line for a little bit over a year...

you're seriously gonna tell me that restoring a car from the ground up is less rewarding that just buying one that someone else restored for you?

seriously, if i wanted to save money- i'd SAVE MY MONEY for a new rifle. not post to ask information about building one.

If you've been over at TFL for a year, then why didn't you say so in the first place?
You must know that the VAST majority of guys over there are NOT building their own rifles.

And if this isn't about saving money, then why did you start your original semi-literate thread with this: "being on a college budget needs me to built my guns piece by piece... "
You can't blame anybody for thinking that you're trying to SAVE money, and you can't blame anybody for trying to set you straight, based on your OP.

Ben

Pryde
09-18-2008, 7:51 PM
I don't understand why you would spend twice the amount of money to build a gun out of USED parts for twice the cost of another gun thats made mostly out of USED parts. Especially when you are building a gun that is at heart a 3 MOA rifle.

The American obsession with the M14 never ceases to amuse me. ;)

Some folks just have more dollars than sense........

NRAhighpowershooter
09-18-2008, 8:01 PM
M1A's are hardly 3moa rifles... I have 2 I built myself and they will both shoot 1 1/2 moa. my 3rd M1A was a all GI parts gun and I used it to get started in HighPower shooting.... off the rack it shot 3/4moa (new TRW barrel) and I made Master class with it and I can still consistantly shoot within my class with it... these rifles are verry accurate as is and in the NM configuration, built by someone who knows what they are doing, easily a 1/2moa rifle, with match ammo, of course.....Some wil mention SA Inc's warrant. BFD... warronty of rifles don;t mean diddly squat if the rifle breaks... when a qualified builder (Ted Brown, Tom Luhmann and some others) you dont need no stinkin warranty........