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.454
09-12-2008, 8:29 AM
Which one do you think it is? To qualify, the rifle must have been issued and used extensively by the regular armed forces of one or more countries during the last 100 years.

I intentionally left out the AK and its variants and the M-16 as they are by definition assault rifles due to the fact they DO NOT fire high power, long range cartridges.

Edit: Please consider a vote for the M1A Springfield as a vote for the M14.
I apologize for the mistake

marxdspot
09-12-2008, 8:33 AM
There's no poll.

.454
09-12-2008, 8:35 AM
There's no poll.


there is now

;)

thedrickel
09-12-2008, 8:36 AM
There's no contest. FWRA FTW.

offrdmania
09-12-2008, 8:38 AM
You need to look at length of use, reliability, cost to manufacture, etc. Not a popularity contest

Timberwolf
09-12-2008, 8:40 AM
M1 Garand FTW and I believe I have the NRA's (at least their magazine and TV show) support on that

cleanguy46
09-12-2008, 8:50 AM
Hmmmm.......seems to me that the AK would top the list considering it's wide spread use in other countries and that most battles are fought close quarters. There has to be a gazbillion made and shake rattle and roll this weapon has inflicted a death toll probably higher then any rifle made. Guess I have been watching the military channel too much.......;)

Astig Boy
09-12-2008, 9:08 AM
"M1A Springfield"? The M1A Springfield was never used in battle! HELLO!! :p

Doheny
09-12-2008, 9:09 AM
How would Obama vote? :rolleyes:

dilligaffrn
09-12-2008, 9:09 AM
M1 Garand FTW and I believe I have the NRA's (at least their magazine and TV show) support on that

PLUS 1

Booshanky
09-12-2008, 9:11 AM
Other. G3

ar15barrels
09-12-2008, 9:24 AM
"M1A Springfield"? The M1A Springfield was never used in battle! HELLO!! :p

I think he means the M14.
He was a turners employee, what do you want...

To the OP, don't take the slight personally, you were smart enough to get out of there. ;)
If you PM Kestryll, he can change that poll text to 'M14' for you...

uzigalil
09-12-2008, 9:28 AM
your poll is faulty. Most would say it was the mp44's introduction to the battlefield and then the AK-47's development and fielding.



Waiting for my lMG Gas tube........

BP88
09-12-2008, 9:34 AM
Definitely AK-series rifles.

.454
09-12-2008, 9:44 AM
Hmmmm.......seems to me that the AK would top the list considering it's wide spread use in other countries and that most battles are fought close quarters. There has to be a gazbillion made and shake rattle and roll this weapon has inflicted a death toll probably higher then any rifle made. Guess I have been watching the military channel too much.......;)

The poll refers to battle rifles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle) only. Did any of you guys who are bashing this thread for not including the AK-47 in the poll, read what I wrote in the first post about not including assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle) rifles. Don't tell me you don't know the difference between an assault rifle and a battle rifle?


P.S.
Yes, I did blundered with the M1A inclusion; I should have posted the M14.

nic
09-12-2008, 9:48 AM
Garand FTW.

BHPFan
09-12-2008, 9:55 AM
I choose FN-FAL.

Just look how many armies in the world used it and how long it has been in service and how many post-war conflicts has it been involved.

The M1 Garand would have been at the top of my list as it was the main battle rifle used by our GIs in WW2. The M14 is just an offshoot of the M1 Garand.

samuelkowal906
09-12-2008, 9:57 AM
Kind of a strange list... I say the M14 but it's kind of no contest against something like a Mosin Nagant, enfield, or even the garand...

You should have made it of the wwII rifles and left out the FAL and M14.

gunshack
09-12-2008, 10:00 AM
Did Turners intentionally hire people who know nothing about firearms?

PatriotnMore
09-12-2008, 10:08 AM
The AK was voted #1 battle rifle (I am not 100% sure if battle rifle was the term) in a head to head comparrison on the Military channel, and who can really argue.

ar15barrels
09-12-2008, 10:09 AM
Don't tell me you don't know the difference between an assault rifle and a battle rifle?

They won't tell you that because they don't know the difference.

Greg-Dawg
09-12-2008, 10:11 AM
Garand.

Suvorov
09-12-2008, 10:35 AM
"M1A Springfield"? The M1A Springfield was never used in battle! HELLO!! :p


Actually, some National Guard units are buying M1As stateside and deploying to the bad places with them due to the shortage of M14 and the units that they are replacing unwillingness to give up their rifles. So M1As are seeing combat. Still, I'm sure that the OP meant M-14s.

Regarding the matter of best battle rifle, I'll have to go with the Garand in the context of how well it succeeded against the contemporaries, its mass production, its combat performance, and its impact on history.

TonyM
09-12-2008, 10:39 AM
Where's the GSG-5 option? Plenty of operators here use it every day! :D :p

dribbler
09-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Ruger 10/22

Guntech
09-12-2008, 11:04 AM
M1A ftw still making improvement on em today.

FMJBT
09-12-2008, 11:08 AM
Enfield. Cheap to produce, reliable, rate of aimed fire comprable to semi auto's, extremely long service life (50+years).

.454
09-12-2008, 11:48 AM
Did Turners intentionally hire people who know nothing about firearms?

Mr. gunshack,

I must admit my personal experience with firearms is somewhat limited to what I learned in the short period of my early life in America when I worked part time for the Evil Gun Store who employs only certified morons and losers (Turners).
I also had a little experience (but of course that doesn't count) with an AK-47 assault rifle S/N STR92256 about 27 years ago, but only for a brief period of time - exactly two years and three days.

Just in case you are wondering what kind of idiot still remembers the serial number of a rifle after 27 years, it's because I didn't purchased or built the rifle from parts like most Calgunners did. The rifle in question was issued to me and I had to take care of it every day for 733 straight days - or be court-martialed for neglecting the firearm the Socialist People's Republic entrusted me with.

So please accept my apologies for being such an ignoramus and offending your sensibilities with my stupid poll. I am sure your experience is far greater than anyone's on this board so I will just shut up from now on.

;)

C.G.
09-12-2008, 12:02 PM
Since no M16 or AR-10 was listed I voted FAL.

.454
09-12-2008, 12:22 PM
P.S. My vote goes to FAL

Knight
09-12-2008, 12:33 PM
I voted for the K98 Mauser, though I really consider the 98 Mauser in general to be one of the most historically significant firearms of the 20th century period, let alone among battle rifles.

I made my choice based on the merits of the design itself, historical significance, and longevity. Among battle rifles at least, I think the Mauser is the clear winner in all 3 respects.

If the category was widened to all firearms, I would probably go with the AK-49, the AKM, or just the 7.62 AK family in general.

5hundo
09-12-2008, 12:39 PM
G3 Maybe?

rolo
09-12-2008, 12:40 PM
The FN FAL was called "the right arm of the free world" for a very good reason. I really wish politics hadn't got in the way of our adoption of it.

.454
09-12-2008, 12:42 PM
I voted for the K98 Mauser, though I really consider the 98 Mauser in general to be one of the most historically significant firearms of the 20th century period, let alone among battle rifles.

I made my choice based on the merits of the design itself, historical significance, and longevity. Among battle rifles at least, I think the Mauser is the clear winner in all 3 respects.



Good choice, although the impact the genial K98 design is most historically significant because (with the notable exception of the Springfield '03) it was copied and improved upon mostly in the civilian sporting rifles market.

4 Brigada
09-12-2008, 1:13 PM
The FN FAL was called "the right arm of the free world" for a very good reason. I really wish politics hadn't got in the way of our adoption of it.


His statement is right on, but it would have been the FAL set aside in favor of the M16 instead of the M14. Tough choice here, no AK?. Garand, M14 (M1A) FAL. I have them all so I guess Im not very a picking just one :D. My vote went to the FAL, reasons over the garand against because of the caliber and the en block system. Its not good even against the California militia today, They have ten rounders:D When it was made luke skywalker would have been proud to have a Garand. mausers arisaka 5 roun capacity. M14 great had the best of the Garand, wood and steel . better caliber 7.62 mm and a 20 rnd magazine. against it complicated its proving ground ( Vietman war)didnt favor it. FAL toe to toe with the AK in every Sh..hole posible, 7.62 . 20 rnd mag , adjustable gas system and for those that say it cant run dirty there es old dirty in TX some 15000 rounds thru it with out cleaning and Im sure you will be relieved before you run 15000 rnds thru just your rifle. Sand cuts my a... So thats why my vote goes for the FAL. Over 90 countries in the free world cant be that wrong.

FAL professional, lean like a cheetah a man's rifle boyo.

Two Shots
09-12-2008, 1:20 PM
No M14 or BAR so I picked the M1 Garand.

ar15barrels
09-12-2008, 1:30 PM
No M14 or BAR so I picked the M1 Garand.

Must be a lot people doing that because everyone knows that the FAL is a better battle rifle than the Garand.
Detatchable mags and a pistol grip.
How can you go wrong?

aplinker
09-12-2008, 1:45 PM
I think Garand is winning just because of its historical significance.

No one in their right mind would choose it to field over a FAL now.

USMCM16A2
09-12-2008, 2:05 PM
Guys,



I know it is a contradiction, buy I vote for M14/M1A. USMCM16A2:D:D:D

dwa
09-12-2008, 2:18 PM
just to clarify for the guys saying the ak or m16/m4 should be up here i case you missed the battle rifle stipulation or dont know what a battle rifle is...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle
A Battle Rifle or Main Battle Rifle is a full-size rifle designed for military use that fires a high-power rifle cartridge such as the U.S. .30-06, the Russian 7.62x54R, or the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge
aks and m16/m4 and their contemporaries are assault rifles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle or carbine (not to be confused with a semi-automatic only replica) firing ammunition with muzzle energies intermediate between those typical of pistol and high-powered rifle ammunition
and i think g3 and svt 40 would have been good choices also.

Knight
09-12-2008, 2:26 PM
Good choice, although the impact the genial K98 design is most historically significant because (with the notable exception of the Springfield '03) it was copied and improved upon mostly in the civilian sporting rifles market.

Germany
Turkey
Persia
Spain
Serbia
Brazil
Uruguay
Argentina
Belgium
China
Mexico
Sweden
Transvaal
Orange Free State
British
America

What do all these countries have in common?

All of them adopted the Mauser bolt-action design for their militaries, or made licensed copies.

The Mauser 98 was the AR/AK of its time. When it came out, it was considered the bolt rifle to have for one's military. Even if a country didn't license them, many still fielded them, including virtually every Middle Eastern country (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Israel, etc.).

The most conservative estimate I've read regarding military Mauser 98 production put the worldwide number somewhere around 31 million.

PIRATE14
09-12-2008, 2:50 PM
just to clarify for the guys saying the ak or m16/m4 should be up here i case you missed the battle rifle stipulation or dont know what a battle rifle is...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle
A Battle Rifle or Main Battle Rifle is a full-size rifle designed for military use that fires a high-power rifle cartridge such as the U.S. .30-06, the Russian 7.62x54R, or the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge
aks and m16/m4 and their contemporaries are assault rifles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle or carbine (not to be confused with a semi-automatic only replica) firing ammunition with muzzle energies intermediate between those typical of pistol and high-powered rifle ammunition
and i think g3 and svt 40 would have been good choices also.

AHH....it's on the internet so it must be true...........:D

Any rifle you take into a battle is a battle rifle...........

GARAND from a impact on history standpoint....

FAL....nice PG AND DETACHABLE MAGS...

.454
09-12-2008, 3:01 PM
Germany
Turkey
Persia
Spain
Serbia
Brazil
Uruguay
Argentina
Belgium
China
Mexico
Sweden
Transvaal
Orange Free State
British
America

What do all these countries have in common?

All of them adopted the Mauser bolt-action design for their militaries, or made licensed copies.

The Mauser 98 was the AR/AK of its time. When it came out, it was considered the bolt rifle to have for one's military. Even if a country didn't license them, many still fielded them, including virtually every Middle Eastern country (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Israel, etc.).

The most conservative estimate I've read regarding military Mauser 98 production put the worldwide number somewhere around 31 million.

I do not disagree with you, lots of different countries issued Mauser rifles to their soldiers; even the US copied and improved the Mauser design for the Sprg. 1903. It is a proven design and millions of dead Allied troops stand witness to the rifle deadly power, accuracy and reliability.

However, my vote still goes to the FAL rifle for its superb and innovative adjustable gas system, break open design, for the 20 rounds of 7.62X51 detachable magazine firepower and excellent accuracy for a semiauto. It is easy to control, the recoil is mild and let's admit it - has good looks.
Acording to Wiki it was deployed by 23 countries and while it didn't participated in as many full-fledged nation-against-nation wars as the Mauser rifles were, in the hands of the armed forces of the free world it certainly was a strong deterrent against such wars.

redcliff
09-12-2008, 5:22 PM
AHH....it's on the internet so it must be true...........:D

Any rifle you take into a battle is a battle rifle...........

GARAND from a impact on history standpoint....

FAL....nice PG AND DETACHABLE MAGS...


Thats not just an internet definition, its been used by Jeff Cooper, Chuck Taylor, and Ian V. Hogg for as long as I can remember and I'm getting kinda old :P

An M-16 is no more a Battle Rifle than an M1 Garand is an Assault Rifle.

M. Sage
09-12-2008, 5:43 PM
Kind of a strange list... I say the M14 but it's kind of no contest against something like a Mosin Nagant, enfield, or even the garand...

You should have made it of the wwII rifles and left out the FAL and M14.

I disagree. There are serious advantages in the old WWII designs you mentioned.

The Lee-Enfield is capable of a surprisingly high rate of fire. I'd go so far as to say that it's aimed rate of fire is probably as high as an M14 (assuming a competent operator, of course). It's also easier to produce and maintain than the M14.

The Mosin may be a crude design, but it's stupidly fast and easy to produce, extremely easy to maintain, and accurate enough. Rate of fire suffers, but you could probably field 5 troops with Mosins for the cost of equipment and training of one troop with an M14. The North Koreans and Viet Cong were still using Mosins during their respective wars. It's still an effective design. Not as elegant or well-engineered as the Enfield, but it gets the job done.

and i think g3 and svt 40 would have been good choices also.

I agree on the SVT-40 but the G3 isn't as good as the FAL.

AHH....it's on the internet so it must be true...........:D

Any rifle you take into a battle is a battle rifle...........

No, those definitions are accurate. The first "assault rifle" was the MP43/StG44, which fired the 8mm Kurz (German for "short"). The power level was somewhere between 9mm that subguns fired and 8x57 used in rifles and MGs by the Germans. The idea and name stuck.

dwa
09-12-2008, 6:22 PM
AHH....it's on the internet so it must be true...........:D

Any rifle you take into a battle is a battle rifle...........

GARAND from a impact on history standpoint....

FAL....nice PG AND DETACHABLE MAGS...

having carried an assault rifle into battle i think i know the difference, do you?

Crusader
09-12-2008, 8:58 PM
This isn't the best of questions. Most innovative or most widely used does not necessarily mean "best". An M14 would almost always completely outclass a Mosin Nagant, but that's not a fair comparrison, as the M14 was developed what, 60 years after the Nagant?

I'm voting for the Garand. Most innovative and groundbreaking, more effective in most combat situations than most other arms of the time, and was simple, rugged, and reliable.
The SMLE would be a close second for the same reasons.

Knight
09-12-2008, 9:07 PM
I do not disagree with you, lots of different countries issued Mauser rifles to their soldiers; even the US copied and improved the Mauser design for the Sprg. 1903. It is a proven design and millions of dead Allied troops stand witness to the rifle deadly power, accuracy and reliability.

However, my vote still goes to the FAL rifle for its superb and innovative adjustable gas system, break open design, for the 20 rounds of 7.62X51 detachable magazine firepower and excellent accuracy for a semiauto. It is easy to control, the recoil is mild and let's admit it - has good looks.
Acording to Wiki it was deployed by 23 countries and while it didn't participated in as many full-fledged nation-against-nation wars as the Mauser rifles were, in the hands of the armed forces of the free world it certainly was a strong deterrent against such wars.

Alright, fair enough. I see the reasons behind your decision. That's the problem with these types of "top" picks, there are dozens of criteria from which you can base your decision on.

PIRATE14
09-12-2008, 9:53 PM
having carried an assault rifle into battle i think i know the difference, do you?

Nope never carried a rifle into a battle......had a pistol on my chest and a Tomcat under my ***........;)

PIRATE14
09-12-2008, 9:55 PM
An M-16 is no more a Battle Rifle than an M1 Garand is an Assault Rifle.

You'd prolly get a few germans and japanese to say that they were seriously assaulted w/ an M1 garand......

mk19
09-12-2008, 11:38 PM
his poll is faulty IMO, needs to be detailed as in what features are we looking at, plus if you are looking only at higher caliper weapons issued to regular armies, you forgot the HK G3, SA model 1903. SVT40, and ofcourse M14 (and no saying M1A counts as M14 is not acceptable)

dwa
09-13-2008, 12:32 AM
Nope never carried a rifle into a battle......had a pistol on my chest and a Tomcat under my ***........;)

then i wont try to tell you the difference between a fighter and a fighter bomber, you must be an old timer being in a 14 :)

Q
09-13-2008, 3:25 AM
G3
FAL

Ford8N
09-13-2008, 4:29 AM
I vote FAL
followed by G3
then SMLE
last resort the Mosin
:p

Max-the-Silent
09-13-2008, 7:18 AM
Some of these polls crack me up.

In this case, without parameters, how do you as an informed individual cast a legit vote?

Are we talking about the actual military use of the as issued rifles in historical context?

Civilian target range use?

Romantic attachement?

Current use on a battlefield?

Availability in California?

Price?

I've got more questions than answers.

I'm a Garand man. Love 'em. Been shooting them and owned them since you could buy 'em through the mail on a kid's budget.

MIA/14 Love 'em. Product inproved Garand. Issues here wrt restrictions.

FAL's - Love 'em - same issues wrt restrictions here, better fighting gun than a M1A/14 in CA civilian legal condition, but will never be as accurate as the M1A/14 no matter how you attempt to "tune" 'em.

If you're taking about the historical context, more people have fallen on the battlefield under fire from a Mauser rifle (in all it's variations) than from any other rifle design.

The SMLE is the king of the bolt guns in miltary use. Highest standard capacity. The two piece stock design leaves something to be desired though.

For romantic reasons, I guess I have to vote for the Garand. Long before I got my hands on more modern tackle, I became intimate with the Garand.

You always remember your first.

I guess that's why I'll always love the BAR, too.

gunshack
09-13-2008, 11:52 AM
It's me who owes you an apology. I don't think you're an idiot or an ignoramus. I was just irritated that you referred to the M14 as a "M1A Sproingfeld," so I abstained from the vote. Please accept my apology.

Mr. gunshack,

I must admit my personal experience with firearms is somewhat limited to what I learned in the short period of my early life in America when I worked part time for the Evil Gun Store who employs only certified morons and losers (Turners).
I also had a little experience (but of course that doesn't count) with an AK-47 assault rifle S/N STR92256 about 27 years ago, but only for a brief period of time - exactly two years and three days.

Just in case you are wondering what kind of idiot still remembers the serial number of a rifle after 27 years, it's because I didn't purchased or built the rifle from parts like most Calgunners did. The rifle in question was issued to me and I had to take care of it every day for 733 straight days - or be court-martialed for neglecting the firearm the Socialist People's Republic entrusted me with.

So please accept my apologies for being such an ignoramus and offending your sensibilities with my stupid poll. I am sure your experience is far greater than anyone's on this board so I will just shut up from now on.

;)

.454
09-13-2008, 2:34 PM
It's me who owes you an apology. I don't think you're an idiot or an ignoramus. I was just irritated that you referred to the M14 as a "M1A Sproingfeld," so I abstained from the vote. Please accept my apology.

Accepted. ;)

Beelzy
09-13-2008, 2:40 PM
FN-FAL.

They don't call it, "The Free World's Right Arm" for nothing.

a1fabweld
09-13-2008, 2:45 PM
Other. G3

+1!!!

gunboat
09-13-2008, 3:39 PM
The best battle rifle is the one you have in your hands when someone starts firing at you -----

Guntech
09-13-2008, 3:47 PM
just to clarify for the guys saying the ak or m16/m4 should be up here i case you missed the battle rifle stipulation or dont know what a battle rifle is...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle
A Battle Rifle or Main Battle Rifle is a full-size rifle designed for military use that fires a high-power rifle cartridge such as the U.S. .30-06, the Russian 7.62x54R, or the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge
aks and m16/m4 and their contemporaries are assault rifles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle or carbine (not to be confused with a semi-automatic only replica) firing ammunition with muzzle energies intermediate between those typical of pistol and high-powered rifle ammunition
and i think g3 and svt 40 would have been good choices also.

Wikipedia is not necessarily factual.

X-NewYawker
09-13-2008, 3:49 PM
Best battle rifle of the 20th century?

The one I have in my hands when the SHTF.



I don't have a Garand

Sunwolf
09-13-2008, 3:50 PM
Garand it is!

dwa
09-13-2008, 4:01 PM
Wikipedia is not necessarily factual.

i know the difference, wiki just had an easy reference for me to cite. and in this case it is factual ,a battle rifle fires a full powered cartridge like the ones listed and generally has an excessive max effective range. an assault rifle is called and assault rifle for exactly that reason its a rifle for assaulting firing a less powerful cartridge will less recoil at a realistic combat range. battle rifles seem to have fallen out of favor with most militaries over the last 50 years.

Astig Boy
09-13-2008, 4:02 PM
Wikipedia is not necessarily factual.

+1
Try using Wikipedia as a reference in college and see what happens. Instant F-. LOL :D

BroncoBob
09-13-2008, 4:23 PM
M1 Garand hands down.

X-NewYawker
09-13-2008, 4:47 PM
Rifle Cartridge (.280 and up) = Battle rifle
Varmint Cartridge (.223 and down) = Assault rifle

Thats how the Germans saw it.

hossb7
09-13-2008, 5:13 PM
I didn't realize that caliber was the determination for "assault weapons"

BHPFan
09-13-2008, 5:15 PM
+1
Try using Wikipedia as a reference in college and see what happens. Instant F-. LOL :D

That happened to you? :confused:

ar15barrels
09-13-2008, 5:31 PM
Rifle Cartridge (.280 and up) = Battle rifle
Varmint Cartridge (.223 and down) = Assault rifle

So what are the 6.5 grenade and 6.8 SPC?

cackinthebox
09-13-2008, 5:40 PM
poll void w/o HK G3, probably just as popular as the FAL, probably more reliable in bad enviroments as well.

redcliff
09-13-2008, 5:41 PM
I didn't realize that caliber was the determination for "assault weapons"

"Assault Weapon" is not a truly defined term, and is typically used by those who would take our firearms and deny our 2nd Amendment rights.

"Assault Rifle" is a defined term in the history of small arms development. To be an Assault Rifle it must be selective fire and utilize an intermediate power cartridge.

sb_pete
09-13-2008, 5:44 PM
I didn't realize that caliber was the determination for "assault weapons"

nah, an "assault weapon" is defined as: the weapon used by the assaulter when performing an assault.

I personally am wielding a particularly deadly faber-castel MKII graphite-core, wood-shrouded assault spike at the moment. Sadly though it wouldn't actually become an "assault weapon" until I actually assaulted somebody with it...;)

Seriously though, an "assault rifle" is simply a select-fire rifle shooting an intermediate cartridge (meaning more than pistol caliber, less than full-power). The principle idea being the ability to lay down fully automatic fire with the most powerful cartridge that the average soldier could be expected to reasonably control under full auto fire.

As for the "best" battle rifle of the 20th century: ------ come on, seriously? What does that even mean?

-Pete

X-NewYawker
09-13-2008, 10:22 PM
So what are the 6.5 grenade and 6.8 SPC?

Expensive f'ing ammo that I can't afford that shoot slightly bigger holes than M855.

Spiggy
09-13-2008, 10:37 PM
nah, an "assault weapon" is defined as: the weapon used by the assaulter when performing an assault.

I personally am wielding a particularly deadly faber-castel MKII graphite-core, wood-shrouded assault spike at the moment. Sadly though it wouldn't actually become an "assault weapon" until I actually assaulted somebody with it...;)

Seriously though, an "assault rifle" is simply a select-fire rifle shooting an intermediate cartridge (meaning more than pistol caliber, less than full-power). The principle idea being the ability to lay down fully automatic fire with the most powerful cartridge that the average soldier could be expected to reasonably control under full auto fire.

As for the "best" battle rifle of the 20th century: ------ come on, seriously? What does that even mean?

-Pete
the term "Sturmgewehr" came to meaning as a weapon capable of stopping an assault; the Anti-Assault Weapon

dwa
09-13-2008, 11:20 PM
if it fires a full size cartridge then it is a battle rifle! if fires an intermediate cartridge that was created specifically for shorter ranges utilizing these or similar cartridges 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.92x33, 5.45x39 then it is an assault rifle. i dont see how hard it is to grasp this concept. i would say 6.8 and 6.5 grendel are intermediate cartridges also.

M. Sage
09-13-2008, 11:29 PM
Rifle Cartridge (.280 and up) = Battle rifle
Varmint Cartridge (.223 and down) = Assault rifle

Thats how the Germans saw it.

Umm, the original assault rifle as designed by the Germans was an 8mm rifle...

The AK-47 uses a .30 cal (.310 diameter) cartridge...

The difference is in muzzle force, not bore diameter. A full power cartridge is a cartridge in the realm of .308. Since 5.56 or 7.62x39mm or 8mm Kurz or any of the intermediates have about half the muzzle force of a full-power rifle cartridge, and since they have about double the power of a combat handgun/submachine gun cartridge, they're "intermediate". They sort of filled the void between a submachine gun, a machine gun and a battle rifle. Or maybe they just took some of the best aspects and came up with a compromise between the three.

And I want to change my vote. Best battle rifle? FG-42. :p

dwa
09-14-2008, 12:37 PM
Umm, the original assault rifle as designed by the Germans was an 8mm rifle...

The AK-47 uses a .30 cal (.310 diameter) cartridge...

The difference is in muzzle force, not bore diameter. A full power cartridge is a cartridge in the realm of .308. Since 5.56 or 7.62x39mm or 8mm Kurz or any of the intermediates have about half the muzzle force of a full-power rifle cartridge, and since they have about double the power of a combat handgun/submachine gun cartridge, they're "intermediate". They sort of filled the void between a submachine gun, a machine gun and a battle rifle. Or maybe they just took some of the best aspects and came up with a compromise between the three.

And I want to change my vote. Best battle rifle? FG-42. :p

i was going to say fg 42 but i thought it wasnt widely issued enough to be considered, a very interisting piece of equitment though. the us had a similar weapon the johnson lmg which i found very interesting.

socomIInato
09-14-2008, 8:32 PM
War time testing of captured FG 42 showed it to be a bit fragile! Sure you want to change your vote. For overall influence on history, it`s ability to function in various climates from north africa to bitter cold of the battle of the bulge to rice paddys of vietnam the M1 garand is by far more significant then any other battle rifle.

4 Brigada
09-14-2008, 8:51 PM
it`s ability to function in various climates from north africa to bitter cold of the battle of the bulge to rice paddys of vietnam the M1 garand is by far more significant then any other battle rifle.


FAL been there done that got the T-shirts, Just in case you ask about the cold of the Battle of the Bulge, By coincidence Bastogne is in Belgium where the FAL was made you would think it would work in their own country. Yes historically the 2 rifles that most influenced the world the Garand and the AK hands down. As battle rifle well you know my choice.

BillCA
09-14-2008, 10:08 PM
I dithered back and forth. In the end, the M14 won.

But I have to agree with General Patton that the M1 rifle is the finest rifle ever fielded to an army. Up to that point.

The reason I selected the M14 is that it can do everything the M1 Garand could do plus it corrected several inherent "tactical" flaws with the M1. The difference between the .308 and .30-06 in a military rifle in really insignificant. The ability to use magazine of 20 rounds which can be topped off with a stripper clip if needed corrects some of the issues with the M1.

I don't think the select-fire mode of the M14 was an advantage. The only time that would be beneficial is when facing a fortified enemy and giving cover fire. Then suddenly you have a squad full of BAR's. :cool:

I wish I had the money for an M1A Scout and a .308 Garand -- I could be quite content adding those to my rifle battery. All I need is a small Lotto win! :p