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ElevenBravO
09-09-2008, 1:24 AM
I don't know much about the gun laws in California, but I just need the basics of what I need to know.

*What do I have to do to get a gun license?

*I want to get an M4 and I know I have to do some kind of modification to it, but i just don't know what. Or could anyone prefer another kind rifle.

*Would it help benefit me since I'm in the US ARMY?

I don't have much questions cause I don't know what more do I need to ask, but it would be great if I got help on this, thanks

SJgunguy24
09-09-2008, 1:34 AM
No license needed for rifles. If you want to get something close to a M4 your going to have to get whats called an OLL(off list lower) receiver. That has to be transferred through an FFL holder unless purchased from a gun store. Where do you live?

ElevenBravO
09-09-2008, 1:42 AM
I live in the Bay Area. What's FFL?

SJgunguy24
09-09-2008, 1:47 AM
PM me. Where in the bay area??? Federal Firearms License

E Pluribus Unum
09-09-2008, 2:44 AM
I don't know much about the gun laws in California, but I just need the basics of what I need to know.

*What do I have to do to get a gun license?

*I want to get an M4 and I know I have to do some kind of modification to it, but i just don't know what. Or could anyone prefer another kind rifle.

*Would it help benefit me since I'm in the US ARMY?

I don't have much questions cause I don't know what more do I need to ask, but it would be great if I got help on this, thanks

Thank you for your service in the Army.

Assuming you purchase an Off-List Lower (OLL) receiver. (use search):

California law makes it illegal to have a center fire rifle that has a detachable magazine and any of the following:

Pistol Grip
Flash Suppressor
Grenade/Flare Launcher (No m-203's on an AR)
Collapsible Stock

As you know, a standard M4 has a detachable magazine, a flash suppressor, a collapsible stock and a pistol grip. This means it is an assault weapon in its standard form. You have two options:

1) Take off the things that make it an assault weapon: You can order a rifle kit that has a muzzle break instead of a flash suppressor, and a California legal grip that does not legally count as a "pistol grip" called the "monster man grip".

2) You can alter it so that it does not accept detachable magazines. There are two major products for this; a Prince50 kit that replaces a standard magazine release with an allen screw and locks the magazine in place; or the more common "bullet button" that makes it so instead of using the mag release to drop out a magazine, you have to use the tip of a bullet to do it. If you use 10 round magazines with it, then it is not an assault weapon even with all of the features.


So, to make it quick and simple, you have two options for your M4:

1) Replace the Flash suppressor with a muzzle break, drill a hole in the stock and bolt it in position so it is not collapsable, and put a California grip on. This option allows you to use detachable 30 round magazines.

OR:

2) Buy a bullet button and a 10 round magazine; the only downfall is you have to use a bullet to drop the magazine out for reloading and you have to use a 10 rounder.

Here is the good news for you:

Once you have built your rifle as a California legal rifle, you can apply for an assault weapon permit because you are on active duty stationed here in California. Once you have the permit, you can restore the M4 to its original specification as a registered assault rifle.

SJgunguy24
09-09-2008, 2:56 AM
I'm on the case.

ohsmily
09-09-2008, 7:17 AM
I don't know much about the gun laws in California, but I just need the basics of what I need to know.

*What do I have to do to get a gun license?

*I want to get an M4 and I know I have to do some kind of modification to it, but i just don't know what. Or could anyone prefer another kind rifle.

*Would it help benefit me since I'm in the US ARMY?

I don't have much questions cause I don't know what more do I need to ask, but it would be great if I got help on this, thanks

Do yourself a favor; read the information in the following links. Read it carefully. Don't skim it.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=ar15

http://www.riflegear.com/t-evilfeatures.aspx

ElevenBravO
09-09-2008, 12:18 PM
So if I did this all of these, it wouldn't matter if I have a rail system and do some attachments to it? Thanks a lot guys

ElevenBravO
09-09-2008, 12:37 PM
2) Buy a bullet button and a 10 round magazine; the only downfall is you have to use a bullet to drop the magazine out for reloading and you have to use a 10 rounder.

Would that mean I could leave the pistol grip, collapsable stock and flash suppressor as is

JOEKILLA
09-09-2008, 12:59 PM
Would that mean I could leave the pistol grip, collapsable stock and flash suppressor as is

Yes, and welcome to Calguns.

Ballistic043
09-09-2008, 1:16 PM
So if I did this all of these, it wouldn't matter if I have a rail system and do some attachments to it? Thanks a lot guys

if you have a registered assault weapon, you can add anything legal you want. however, with an off list non registered AR15, there are exemptions. never attach a sound suppressor or night vision scope to the rifle. grenade launchers are also a bad area to be around. do not modify the action of the rifle, or assemble the lower with m16 parts. and never under any circumstances should you attach a high capacity magazine to the rifle, unless -ALL- evil features are removed.

ElevenBravO
09-09-2008, 2:33 PM
Thanks a lot! This helps a lot

E Pluribus Unum
09-09-2008, 4:50 PM
if you have a registered assault weapon, you can add anything legal you want. however, with an off list non registered AR15, there are exemptions.
Umm.. do you mean exceptions? This implies if you have a non-registered AR-15 you are exempt from the laws.



never attach a sound suppressor or night vision scope to the rifle.


What does a sound suppressor and a night vision scope have to do with assault weapons? Both are just as illegal whether on a registered AW or on daddy's .3006.




do not modify the action of the rifle, or assemble the lower with m16 parts.


Why not? Nothing says one cannot modify the action; nor is it illegal to assemble the lower with M16 parts. Without the extra little hole in the receiver it cannot accept the auto sear and the sear itself is the only thing that applies to "constructive possession". Unless of course my memory is fried.


and never under any circumstances should you attach a high capacity magazine to the rifle, unless -ALL- evil features are removed.

Again, this has nothing to do with evil features. Theoretically if all evil features were removed but he had a bullet button installed using a hi-cap it would be an assault weapon because it has a fixed magazine of more than 10 rounds.

Please do not confuse the issue for him.

To the Original Poster:

I would order your rifle kit with a compensator instead of a flash suppressor even though you are going to register it as an assault weapon. This will make it easier to sell in California later, or easier to convert your Assault Weapon when you get out of the military.

As far as the rest is concerned, order the standard M4 kit with collapsible stock and a bullet button. This makes it California legal to have a collapsible stock. Then apply for your AW permit; once you have the permit you can take the bullet button off in about 1 minute and voila... California legal registered assault weapon.

Guntech
09-09-2008, 4:58 PM
You'd better do some research before you buy a OLL and end up making an illegal weapon, Just a word to the wise. Welcome to Calguns.

ElevenBravO
09-09-2008, 5:51 PM
Ahaha... Looks like I got a lot of homework to do. I appreciate this information, thanks

ElevenBravO
09-09-2008, 6:02 PM
Should I just buy the M4 and the M4 kit? And go from there? And where could I get an AW permit?

E Pluribus Unum
09-16-2008, 12:43 AM
Should I just buy the M4 and the M4 kit? And go from there? And where could I get an AW permit?

You can get an assault weapons permit from the California Department of Justice, Bureau of Firearms. Use the search to find the links.


Beings you will ultimately be getting an AW permit anyway, your best bet would be to order an M4 kit with a compensator (not a flash hider- for reasons not related to AW status mentioned earlier) and a bullet button kit.

This way you can use a 10 round magazine with your rifle and all its "evil features" while you wait for your permit to come back from the DOJ. Once you get your permit from the DOJ... the Bullet Button takes under a minute to swap out for the real thing.

redcliff
09-16-2008, 7:45 AM
Why are night vision scopes illegal on an OLL?

I understand active night vision scopes (those with an IR illuminator) meet the definition of sniper scopes which is illegal, but most quality night vision scopes are passive.

E Pluribus Unum
09-16-2008, 9:31 AM
Why are night vision scopes illegal on an OLL?

I understand active night vision scopes (those with an IR illuminator) meet the definition of sniper scopes which is illegal, but most quality night vision scopes are passive.

We're talking about active scopes.

Ballistic043
09-16-2008, 9:48 AM
Both are just as illegal whether on a registered AW or on daddy's .3006.

which is exactly why i said dont attach them. what is the problem?



Without the extra little hole in the receiver it cannot accept the auto sear and the sear itself is the only thing that applies to "constructive possession". Unless of course my memory is fried.

yes, which involves modifying the action and/or receiver. which is why i said dont modify the action or use m16 parts. am i speaking a different language, or are you just having a bad day?



Please do not confuse the issue for him.

honestly, your confusing me.

Army
09-16-2008, 10:19 AM
which is exactly why i said dont attach them. what is the problem?
Only Generation 1 night vision, that requires a dedicated illumination system, is outlawed according to the law.

Generation 2 and 3 are perfectly legal to attach and use, as they do NOT require a dedicated lighting system.

Got a PVS-4? Got a PVS-14 with rail clamp? Mount it, and use it.


BTW: M16 bolt carrier is legal to own and use in an AR. BATFE does not consider this a full auto part.

E Pluribus Unum
09-16-2008, 10:34 AM
which is exactly why i said dont attach them. what is the problem?

Because you might as well say "And whatever you do... do NOT attach cocaine to your rifle at any time". We're talking about assault weapons laws and what he can and cannot do as far as assault weapons are concerned. Mere possession of a silencer is a big no-no just like cocaine. Bringing up active night vision scopes and silencers while discussing assault weapons laws is clouding the main issue of assault weapons "do's and don'ts".


yes, which involves modifying the action and/or receiver. which is why i said dont modify the action or use m16 parts.

That is not what you said. You said:

"do not modify the action of the rifle"

Modifying the action of a rifle is perfectly legal. You did not mention receiver.

"or assemble the lower with m16 parts."

Again, assembly of the lower with M16 parts is legal. The only thing that is illegal is the auto sear and that is illegal to possess even if it is not installed so again we are back to "don't put cocaine on your rifle" because the mere possession of that part with an AR15 constitutes "constructive possession" of a machine gun even if it is not assembled with the auto sear.


am i speaking a different language, or are you just having a bad day?

No I am not, I am simply asking you not to confuse the issue. This guy is asking about what he can and cannot have on his AR-15 to keep it from becoming an assault weapon and you come in here talking about M16 parts, silencers, and active night vision scopes; all of which are illegal to possess anyway and have nothing to do with whether his rifle is an assault weapon. On top of that you tell him it is illegal to modify the action of his legal AR and that is false.

I was not being disrespectful to you I only asked you not to confuse the issue. We are talking about building his AR into non-assault weapon configuration and eventually getting an AW permit from the DOJ to make the "evil features" legal with a detachable magazine. Your silencer, scope, and M16 sear are illegal even with an AW permit.

ElevenBravO
09-17-2008, 7:30 PM
I was looking for this post, haven't been on here for a while. Ahaha... Thanks E Pluribus Unum. That would've got me in trouble. Thanks again everyone

ar15barrels
09-17-2008, 10:34 PM
If you are active military and only posted here temporarily, ask your commanding officer if he will sign off on a DOJ AW permit.
You could have a full featured AW here as long as you are here on orders.
You just have to take it with you when you leave.