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View Full Version : So these CA legal AR pistols...


SP1200
09-07-2008, 11:36 PM
What's the situation?

Do they all have to be bolt action?
What about permanently attached mag / not the legal definition of a fixed mag via a BB, but an actually welded on or pined mag with top loading??

...wait that still might not pass because of the mag no being in the handgrip...
ahh.... is there any way to have a real AR pistol??

What about 9mm conversion?

Astig Boy
09-07-2008, 11:43 PM
The "Search" button is your friend!

NeoWeird
09-07-2008, 11:48 PM
You're in Nevada so I won't force you to go searching for it since chances are you're trying to help someone out.

The AR pistol HAS to be built into a complete pistol before trasnfer. It MUST be a single short pistol, so the magazine has to be fixed with a magazine that can not accept rounds, such as the competition Bob-sled magazine.

Since it is a single shot, it is exempt from the safe handgun roster. Once it is in posession of the owner, they can legally alter it in any way they want as long as it doens't break the law. Making the magazine removable on a semi-auto build would make it an assault weapon so the magazine must always be fixed. The magazine can be removable on a bolt action style pistol.

Threaded barrels are not an issue as the magazine will either be fixed or it will be a bolt action so it doesn't apply.

That pretty much sums it up. Must be single shot at time of transfer. Afterwards it can't be assembled into an illegal manner.

aplinker
09-08-2008, 10:31 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=115364

SP1200
09-08-2008, 12:01 PM
Thanks guys...everyone is so nice here...

Wow.

This pistol stuff seems confusing. Basically my uncle in SF wants to build a pistol, or at least for now get a receiver and register it so he can later complete the build when he has the money.

All this fuss over pistols in SF...the main reason why he wants one. You know how it goes "The band creates the demand!" or in this case, the rockstarr / actor mayor Gavin Newsom's dislike for pistols in SF makes my him want one so bad...lol... completely legal of course..that's why I'm researching it for him, my uncle is a Vietnam vet and he's not quite a legal mind type..lol..he's the lets do it type... He already wants to start acquiring parts...but I'm telling to STOP and let me check it out first!

I used the search function and got a ton of pages with "AR" and "pistol" in them, but it's so much information it's overwhelming...I guess I'm looking for a little guidance...
Does anyone have any build threads form start to finish?

technique
09-08-2008, 12:07 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=115364

Here ya go.

technique
09-08-2008, 12:07 PM
oops duped Plinker!

domokun
09-08-2008, 12:08 PM
Thanks guys...everyone is so nice here...

Wow.

This pistol stuff seems confusing. Basically my uncle in SF wants to build a pistol, or at least for now get a receiver and register it so he can later complete the build when he has the money.

All this fuss over pistols in SF...the main reason why he wants one. You know how it goes "The band creates the demand!" or in this case, the rockstarr / actor mayor Gavin Newsom's dislike for pistols in SF makes my him want one so bad...lol... completely legal of course..that's why I'm researching it for him, my uncle is a Vietnam vet and he's not quite a legal mind type..lol..he's the lets do it type... He already wants to start acquiring parts...but I'm telling to STOP and let me check it out first!

I used the search function and got a ton of pages with "AR" and "pistol" in them, but it's so much information it's overwhelming...I guess I'm looking for a little guidance...
Does anyone have any build threads form start to finish?

You cannot buy just the receiver in CA. You must purchase and DROS/transfered a complete AR single-shot pistol. The AR receiver must NOT be transfered/DROS'd as a rifle lower or your Uncle will be in pocession of an illegal short barreled rifle. He will need help from a 07 FFL with the correct permits to complete his pistol build legally as they're the only ones that can build/import AR pistol lowers into CA and manufacture them into a complete single-shot AR pistol for off the shelf purchase.

technique
09-08-2008, 12:09 PM
You cannot buy just the receiver in CA. You must purchase and DROS/transfered as a complete AR single-shot pistol. The AR receiver must NOT be transfered/DROS'd as a rifle lower or your Uncle will be in pocession of an illegal short barreled rifle.

AHHH but I think the OP is in NV and his uncle in CA, I think if OP takes a trip here, he can PPT just the lower.

domokun
09-08-2008, 12:14 PM
AHHH but I think the OP is in NV and his uncle in CA, I think if OP takes a trip here, he can PPT just the lower.

OK. That should work but he'll still need to find a nice FFL to do that PPT. :) The key is making sure his uncle doesn't buy just a pistol receiver in CA via retail channels. It must be a person-to-person transfer in CA or have a 07 FFL assist in creating it?

SunriseF150
09-08-2008, 12:32 PM
Doesn't m24armorer build AR pistols that are single shot? He could pick one of them up from him (does he do dros/transfer too?) and after the dros have him install a gas piston with a fixed magazine/bullet button. Right?

domokun
09-08-2008, 12:35 PM
Doesn't m24armorer build AR pistols that are single shot? He could pick one of them up from him (does he do dros/transfer too?) and after the dros have him install a gas piston with a fixed magazine/bullet button. Right?

Yep he does.

ke6guj
09-08-2008, 12:36 PM
AHHH but I think the OP is in NV and his uncle in CA, I think if OP takes a trip here, he can PPT just the lower.But it the OP is a NV resident, AFAIK, he can't do a PPT in CA. The DROS system won't let the dealer enter in a out-of-state resident as the seller. And since it can't be PPT'ed, it would have to be done as a normal transfer, and at that point, the Roster applies.

technique
09-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Doesn't m24armorer build AR pistols that are single shot? He could pick one of them up from him (does he do dros/transfer too?) and after the dros have him install a gas piston with a fixed magazine/bullet button. Right?

Why yes, yes he does. And he can drop it off for the transfer at your choice of Bay Area gun stores that are AR pistol friendly I.E. Bay Area Gun Vault, SJGE, IA.:)

technique
09-08-2008, 12:38 PM
possibly Rogers Relics too, I have no experience with them to comment on with AR Pistols though.

technique
09-08-2008, 4:40 PM
But it the OP is a NV resident, AFAIK, he can't do a PPT in CA. The DROS system won't let the dealer enter in a out-of-state resident as the seller. And since it can't be PPT'ed, it would have to be done as a normal transfer, and at that point, the Roster applies.

I believe you can do a PPT from an out of state resident. An out of state resident can't buy a firearm with a DL from anywhere in then CA. But I'm sure a PPT can be done. I have never done one personally.


But now your comment has me confused:confused:

bohoki
09-08-2008, 4:58 PM
here is my plan for a california legal ar-15 pistol


http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e366/bohoki/compliantarpist.jpg

no threaded barrel,no magazine that attaches outside of the pistol grip,no foward handgrip,no barrel shroud

ke6guj
09-08-2008, 5:03 PM
I believe you can do a PPT from an out of state resident. AFAIK, you can't. At least that is what some dealers have confirmed. That the computer will not accept an out-of-state DL for the seller.

Think about it, if it were only as easy as having a out-of-state friend fly in a non-Rostered handgun and PPT to you, we'd be able to get just about everything a lot easier.

Now, some people do think that the PC does not allow for only allowing PPTs from CA-sellers, and it that restricting PPTs in that way may be an underground regulation, but there are probably more pressing matters to go after first.

technique
09-08-2008, 5:12 PM
Well I seem to have read to the contrary else where. And the only other thing is that when dealing with AR pistols....We are not dealing with the Roster at all.

technique
09-08-2008, 5:48 PM
I just ate some tri tip and that got my wheels turning.

Just food for thought until someone with a clear answer can jump on in.

When buying a complete AR pistol in CA. it's exempt from the roster of safe handguns because its a single shot and it's DROSed that way, in a separate category.

Also DROS'ed in that category are Olympic pistols that are not on the roster. But able to be obtained due to their exemption.

I also ran a DROS for a CGer on a pistol that was not on the roster, that came from out of state but had been modified single/double action wise. It was also filed in as exempt.

Further more, maybe, maybe in that Curio/relic/Olympic/exempt file, you may be able to fill in out of state info, if that is in fact relevant.

I do recall, also in that Curio/relic/Olympic/exempt file there was a tab that asked if it was a frame only.

Some one please jump in:)

bwiese
09-08-2008, 7:48 PM
"Weird" pistols (i.e, AR pistols) are sellable in CA thru the single-shot exemption and do not have to be PPT'd.

Non-Rostered revolvers under 50yo are sellable in CA thru single-action exemption and don't have to be PPT'd either.

For either of these two exemptions, certain size parameters & min bbl lengths must be observed per 12133PC.

Dealers trying to sell/people trying to get AR pistol receivers should not be cheap. The gun needs to be purchased as a whole gun and a single-shot upper kit should not be 'married' to the lower just for period of DROS and then returned to the dealer, with the buyer just walking out with the pistol lower. If a dealer's doing that he's liable to be importing just pistol lowers and 'manufacturing' single-shot AR pistols and not paying Fed excise tax which can cause big trouble for him if he goes over 49 (I am unsure of this, it could be less and it could be outdated info/more sever, but it is an area for real caution).

If the pistol mfgr is a CA mfgr, that's one thing - but if the pistol receiver is being imported into the state I believe it should come in as a complete single-shot pistol to avoid issues with vagueness in prefatory text in 12125PC ("Unsafe handgun" laws).

technique
09-08-2008, 8:07 PM
So in that case OP could buy a lower from NV. Assemble it single shot, bring it to CA. But the question remains....Can it be PPT from an out of state party?

Also, how are people PPT pistol lower in CA with other CA residents? I hear people say that all the time.



Oh, and thanks Bill.

bwiese
09-08-2008, 8:18 PM
So in that case OP could buy a lower from NV. Assemble it single shot, bring it to CA. But the question remains....Can it be PPT from an out of state party?

Nope. PPT = 2 CA folks only.

Also, how are people PPT pistol lower in CA with other CA residents? I hear people say that all the time.

That's fine, 2 CA residents can execute a PPT for any gun - including Rostered or non-Rostered handgun (which is not an AW, etc.). Those handguns can be a frame, doesn't have to be a whole operational gun.

So if someone moved to CA with legit OLL AR pistol receivers (he'd really have to file Personal Handgun Importer paperwork with DOJ for 'em) he could PPT them to another Californian since they don't need to be Rostered.

But when an FFL acquires an handgun for inventory (i.e., it's not part of PPT/consignment transfer) for resale to regular CA folk it must be either a Rostered handgun or exempt (C&R/50+yo, or a single-action revolver or single-shot pistol of proper size per 12133PC.)

aplinker
09-08-2008, 8:22 PM
Nope. PPT = 2 CA folks only.



No need for PPT - it's a single shot pistol. They could just ship it.

bwiese
09-08-2008, 8:27 PM
No need for PPT - it's a single shot pistol. They could just ship it.

Correct. I just wanted to reaffirm that PPTs are for in-state folks only.

technique
09-08-2008, 8:29 PM
I see, I got the key pieces I was missing. Thanks to the both of you!

trinydex
09-09-2008, 12:02 PM
http://www.championshooters.com/store/product.php?productid=644

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=967912

so here's those bob sled single shot magazines right?

SP1200
09-09-2008, 1:00 PM
Why yes, yes he does. And he can drop it off for the transfer at your choice of Bay Area gun stores that are AR pistol friendly I.E. Bay Area Gun Vault, SJGE, IA.:)

ok. so the best think to do is have my uncle buy a single shot pistol, register it, then mod it to be semi-auto...

.lol...he's not going to like buying an already built gun...lol...
come to think of it, I don't think he's never acquired a firearm with any kind of paperwork...

SP1200
09-09-2008, 1:05 PM
So in that case OP could buy a lower from NV. Assemble it single shot, bring it to CA. But the question remains....Can it be PPT from an out of state party?

Also, how are people PPT pistol lower in CA with other CA residents? I hear people say that all the time.



Oh, and thanks Bill.

see that was what I was wondering... a while I was going to take job in the bay area, and was gathering information of how to bring my firearms in to CA...someone told me I could buy a pistol and bring it in and PPT it to them... it was a pistol that was not drooped tested....that person informed me it was perfectly legal...

ar15barrels
09-09-2008, 1:40 PM
AHHH but I think the OP is in NV and his uncle in CA, I think if OP takes a trip here, he can PPT just the lower.

As long as the OP has a CA drivers license.
That would also happen to make it sticky to purchase the reciever in NV...

bwiese
09-09-2008, 4:30 PM
I posted this in the Handgun section as well.

As it pertains to pistols...Not AR or AK or external mag types but mag in the handle/grip (normal type).

I would think that the same rules apply if one wanted to bring in an off list pistol that meets the 10.5" oal rule. Make it single shot and you can DROS. I realize that 10.5" is pretty long for a pistol but for argument sake am I correct in that it can also apply/be done??

Correct. I would not have the job too 'easy' though, so gun stays well away from semiauto status and is rationally operable as a single-shot pistol.

If you wanted to single-shot an 1911, I'd use an 6+" unramped 22Short? (maybe 25ACP centerfire better) bbl and very stiff bbl spring (say, for hot 10mm) so action won't cycle or feed, and use some kinda screwlock device to retain a filler training mag or block magwell.

AJAX22
09-09-2008, 6:12 PM
It would be very easy on a 1911 to take an extra mag catch and grind it down so that it was recessed into the grip frame... at least I think it would.... that would take care of the pinning mechanism...

M. Sage
09-09-2008, 6:40 PM
AHHH but I think the OP is in NV and his uncle in CA, I think if OP takes a trip here, he can PPT just the lower.

No. PPT doesn't work that way, even among family. It would have to be parent/child granparent/grandchild.

technique
09-09-2008, 10:26 PM
Yeah I guess I forgot. I'm a multi state resident, sometimes I forget.