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View Full Version : AR-15 will NOT CYCLE!! Please help me!


WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 5:41 PM
Hi guys. I haven't posted in a while but I come to you for help today. I recently put together my first ar15. Well it was working flawless until today. I went out to my buddies and whenever I shot it would not cycle the rounds out. My friend said that the most it would cycle is like 1/4 of an inch. I field stripped it. and looked at the gas tube and it didn't look damaged. I thought that there might have been too much oil, so I cleaned off most of it and tried again. Still no improvement. SO CAN YA HELP ME??? I was going to call the gun store but they were closed today.

apbrian112
09-04-2008, 5:44 PM
what type of ammo?

TurboFall
09-04-2008, 5:45 PM
was the upper preassembled, or did you build it yourself?

vlsgmc
09-04-2008, 5:46 PM
What type of gas block did you use in the build and is there any chance it shifted?

10RoundLimit
09-04-2008, 5:47 PM
Does it cycle smoothly by hand? Maybe your gas key came loose.

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 5:47 PM
Upper came completly made already and good to go. As for the ammo federal American Eagle. It's been great ammo.

jandmtv
09-04-2008, 5:50 PM
What type/brand of upper/gas system/barrel length.

Pryde
09-04-2008, 5:51 PM
If it cycled fine before, but doesn't cycle now, your problem is most likely your gas key (The part thats screwed in on top of your bolt carrier.)

A lot of lower tier manufacturers do not stake their gas keys: they come loose after sustained firing which leads to a gas leak which causes cycling problems.

Try tightening the allen screws on top of the key and have them staked to prevent this from happening again.

Check this thread for more info on carrier staking:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6993

ChrisXD45T
09-04-2008, 5:57 PM
If you can, some pics of the BCG, internals, and the fired cases would help people diagnose your problem more definitively.

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 6:21 PM
hmm, I bet it's the gas key, I posted a bunch of pics of my gun like a month or so ago. Does anyone know how I could quickly get the URL to the thread I made?

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 6:23 PM
mine are staked. the parts kit was all Double Star. the lower receiver is Spikes. Brass looked normal and everything.

domokun
09-04-2008, 6:30 PM
hmm, I bet it's the gas key, I posted a bunch of pics of my gun like a month or so ago. Does anyone know how I could quickly get the URL to the thread I made?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=115832

:xeno:

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 6:35 PM
(http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0092va3.jpg)


[IMG]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9035/pict0093rh6.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0093rh6.jpg)


http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6838/pict0094gb6.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0094gb6.jpg)

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5861/pict0081kl5.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0081kl5.jpg)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5473/pict0097rc6.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0097rc6.jpg)

Do these pics help at all?

NiteQwill
09-04-2008, 6:36 PM
Gotta see the top of the BCG. Seems like something was shot "loose."

BroncoBob
09-04-2008, 6:38 PM
Check your gas keys, may have come loose.

Pryde
09-04-2008, 6:43 PM
Look inside your gas key hole.

I have seen a rare malfunction where a primer popped out and became lodged inside the key.

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 6:45 PM
I did have a primer pop out last time I took out my ar but I was able to get it out by taking out the mag and shaking the rifle with the bolt catch engaged. I'm going to take a look right now pryde.

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 6:48 PM
Oh, sh1t! It does look like there is a primer in my gas key.!~! How do I get it out?

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 6:49 PM
Uh oh :-( Hmm banging the bolt carrier doesn't seem to do the job... Sniff...

ChrisXD45T
09-04-2008, 6:52 PM
Can you get the end of a bent paper clip in there and carefully work it out?

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 6:57 PM
paper clip didn't work. It's in tere really snugg.

ChrisXD45T
09-04-2008, 7:26 PM
paper clip didn't work. It's in tere really snugg.
Patience.
You'll get it somehow.

xxdabroxx
09-04-2008, 7:32 PM
dental pick? or automotive version there of?

Pryde
09-04-2008, 7:55 PM
I'm afraid this is gonna be a tough one to fix.

The only way you can get it out is by:

1) Taking the gas key off and pushing it out from behind (gotta break the stake and you will probably lose the key in the process)

2) Using a hand drill with a small bit and carefully drilling the center of the primer out from the front and then pulling it out with a pick stuck through the center. (also risks destroying the key)

I can tell you that your problem is most likely the fact that you are shooting 5.56 spec ammo in a .223 chamber and it is causing overpressure problems that expel your primers. That, in my experience is the number one cause of popped primers. If you are able to get the primer out, I would highly suggest you find a competent gunsmith (hint: ar15barrels) who can ream your chamber to 5.56 NATO specs.

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 8:33 PM
THE DRILL METHOD WORKED!!! yea, it looks really clean in there now! Thanks for the help everyone! Oh the barrel is chambered for 5.56, it says it on the barrel itself. Using American Eagle 50grain rifle cartridges flat base hollow point in .223. Maybe you're right

WilliamAnderson
09-04-2008, 8:34 PM
Might it being a CAR variant make the gas system whacky?

Pryde
09-04-2008, 9:02 PM
No,
Many manufacturers mark their barrels "5.56" for an "authentic look" when in fact they are .223 chambers. I cannot confirm but apparently stag is guilty of this (which is why they will jam with wolf ammo).

Manufacturers that for sure use 5.56 chambers are Colt, LMT, CMMG and Bushy. There are probably more but those are the ones I can name off the top of my head.

I would suggest you either get your chamber reamed or use weaker ammo. (I know the green box rem UMC is for sure .223)

ChrisXD45T
09-04-2008, 9:10 PM
No,
Many manufacturers mark their barrels "5.56" for an "authentic look" when in fact they are .223 chambers. I cannot confirm but apparently stag is guilty of this (which is why they will jam with wolf ammo).

Manufacturers that for sure use 5.56 chambers are Colt, LMT, CMMG and Bushy. There are probably more but those are the ones I can name off the top of my head.

I would suggest you either get your chamber reamed or use weaker ammo. (I know the green box rem UMC is for sure .223)
For everyone's edification, how can someone confirm their chamber is 5.56 without waiting for a failure due to pressure problems?
A go & no-go gauge?

domokun
09-04-2008, 9:56 PM
No,
Many manufacturers mark their barrels "5.56" for an "authentic look" when in fact they are .223 chambers. I cannot confirm but apparently stag is guilty of this (which is why they will jam with wolf ammo).

Manufacturers that for sure use 5.56 chambers are Colt, LMT, CMMG and Bushy. There are probably more but those are the ones I can name off the top of my head.

I would suggest you either get your chamber reamed or use weaker ammo. (I know the green box rem UMC is for sure .223)

I have a Stag 2HTL upper. It eats Federal XM193 5.56mm ammo just fine.

moulton
09-04-2008, 10:02 PM
No,
Many manufacturers mark their barrels "5.56" for an "authentic look" when in fact they are .223 chambers. I cannot confirm but apparently stag is guilty of this (which is why they will jam with wolf ammo).

Manufacturers that for sure use 5.56 chambers are Colt, LMT, CMMG and Bushy. There are probably more but those are the ones I can name off the top of my head.

I would suggest you either get your chamber reamed or use weaker ammo. (I know the green box rem UMC is for sure .223)

I'm liking Stag less and less, Their lowers are good but their uppers suck.... no 1-7" rifling, bolt keys not properly staked, .223 Rem chamber......:mad:

rix
09-04-2008, 10:16 PM
I have a Stag 2HTL upper. It eats Federal XM193 5.56mm ammo just fine.

My Stag also shoots 5.56mm just fine. I would think Stag could possibly run into "liability" issues marking barrels 5.56mm w/,223 chambers.

Intimid8tor
09-04-2008, 10:16 PM
I'm liking Stag less and less, Their lowers are good but their uppers suck.... no 1-7" rifling, bolt keys not properly staked, .223 Rem chamber......:mad:

Everything on stags website says 5.56 NATO. I know that RRA uses a .223 wylde chamer which takes both 5.56 ad .223 and RRA and stag are one in the same. Can't comment on the rifling and gas keys.

moulton
09-04-2008, 11:23 PM
Everything on stags website says 5.56 NATO. I know that RRA uses a .223 wylde chamer which takes both 5.56 ad .223 and RRA and stag are one in the same. Can't comment on the rifling and gas keys.

STAG MSRP: $925*

http://skuophoto.com/images/ar/DSC_0137.JPG

Obviously Stag doesn't buy in to the Voodoo, or at least they don't think YOU do! ;)

Their bolts are Magnetic Particle Inspected (which is the most important part to test), and they chrome line their bores/chambers. The rest of the QC in the TDP is AWOL (enough acronyms for ya?)

They obviously save some money by scrimping on the details, as seen by the following:

No M4 feedramps
No 1/7 barrels
No "H" buffers
No double heat-shield handguards

However, as I said before, no M4 feedramps is better than poor feedramps. In addition, 1/9 gets the job done, buffers are easily swapped if you have any issues, same as handguards.

I received closeup pictures from Beavo451, and they clearly show the FSB to be "F-marked." The chart shows this a advertised, but unconfirmed. This is now confirmed as far as I'm concerned.

F-marked FSB
http://skuophoto.com/images/ar/DSC_0129.JPG

Obviously the gas key is not properly staked, but you can decide if it's good enough for your peace of mind or not.

Gas key staking
http://skuophoto.com/images/ar/DSC_0132.JPG

Barrel markings showing 1/9 twist
http://skuophoto.com/images/ar/DSC_0127.JPG

Rifle feedramps
http://skuophoto.com/images/ar/DSC_0131.JPG

In all, I think it's a good compromise. You could save a lot of money getting this rifle, then throwing in an LMT bolt if you just HAD to have the QC checks and upgrades in your bolt.

In summary: it's a compromise buy.

***By the way, do you see how closely the Stag and S&W are in comparison? The difference is the bolt carrier group!***

*Price taken from their website for a M4 rifle with ARMS #40L

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81462

Pryde
09-05-2008, 12:21 AM
I'm not sure about Stag, I was just quoting what I had heard. (ASSuming)

Hopefully Randall can comment on manufacturers and chamber specs, because I know I have heard from him that he has stuck 5.56 a chamber reamer into many a supposedly 5.56 barrel and came out with a handful of metal shavings.

RECCE556
09-05-2008, 12:55 AM
CMMG has been known to have tight/miscut-mismarked chambers. I've run into more than few. Also had issues with Stag. The problem with those brands (and other HOBBY brands) is that they're inconsistent. Some people will get working guns, some, not so much.

aplinker
09-05-2008, 1:10 AM
It's gonna have to be a bigger issue than a 5.56 chamber reamed as .223 since he wasn't shooting 5.56 ammo. You should get it checked by ar15barrels, though.

Is your barrel chrome lined? Did you clean in-between range sessions? This is a bigger issue if it's not chromed.



CMMG has been known to have tight/miscut-mismarked chambers. I've run into more than few. Also had issues with Stag. The problem with those brands (and other HOBBY brands) is that they're inconsistent. Some people will get working guns, some, not so much.

Where you been, bro?

WilliamAnderson
09-05-2008, 9:17 PM
Yea, it's chrome lined.

ar15barrels
09-05-2008, 9:21 PM
Look inside your gas key hole.

I have seen a rare malfunction where a primer popped out and became lodged inside the key.

I've see that too.
Makes you wonder how the heck it got in there. :confused:

ar15barrels
09-05-2008, 9:24 PM
For everyone's edification, how can someone confirm their chamber is 5.56 without waiting for a failure due to pressure problems?
A go & no-go gauge?

Gauges won't tell you.

The difference is mostly in the diameters.
Both use the same gauges which check for length.

Making a chamber cast is the best way to measure the chamber's diameters.

ar15barrels
09-05-2008, 9:27 PM
Hopefully Randall can comment on manufacturers and chamber specs, because I know I have heard from him that he has stuck 5.56 a chamber reamer into many a supposedly 5.56 barrel and came out with a handful of metal shavings.

Actually, I prefer the 223 wylde.
It has body dimensions slightly larger than a 5.56, but a nice long throat that matches the bullet diameter very well.
This gives you the reliability of a 5.56 chamber with the accuracy of a 223 chamber.

car15
09-05-2008, 9:47 PM
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/3701003883

http://www.m-guns.com/tools.php

I wonder if anybody in your area has one of Nedís chamber reamer you can borrow? They seam a little pricey if you just use it once.

Maybe we can start a co op local club where we can share all sorts of diff tools like reamers, gauges, wrenches, MOACKS, and the like.
I just spent some cash on an upper block, multi barrel wrench, rail alignment tool, and punches. Iíve only used them once and now they sit. Iím considering a MOACKS tool at the moment.

P.S.
I thought the links were interesting and related.