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View Full Version : Californian SHTF/Defense Weapons?


Mark One
09-03-2008, 5:56 PM
Hello once again everyone,

I have been spending the past couple days reading old post and getting up to date with the California laws. They are a lot simpler than I previously thought.

Anyways one thing I did not find was a post asking what you guys use as a grab and go weapon. Since the assault weapons need that Bullet Button I figured they wouldn't be the top choice for the California rifle man.

I have a growing collection of Milsurp bolt actions that I love. But right now I am just in the mood for something fun, accurate, semi-auto and a good defense weapon to sit next to my Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun.

So I am asking; what do you guys use?

*Pics would be great if easily accessed for you*

Patriot
09-03-2008, 6:00 PM
Variations on this theme are quite popular...consider searching in Riflemans and General Gun with "SHTF" intitle

JeffM
09-03-2008, 6:01 PM
Depends on the consistency of the S* and the speed of the F*


But I like Monster Man Grips, so the bullet button doesn't play a huge factor for me.


IIRC, someone who has been through Katrina said that a pistol was his most capable arm for the situation, due to the amount of work that he needed to do without a long gun getting in the way.

NuGunner
09-03-2008, 6:02 PM
OK just curious and had to pose a question myself. If SHTF would you really be worried about LE and the laws, assuming it hit bad enough. Are we talking about riots, zombie's, invasions? For all the Prince 50 bb out there?

JeffM
09-03-2008, 6:05 PM
OK just curious and had to pose a question myself. If SHTF would you really be worried about LE and the laws, assuming it hit bad enough. Are we talking about riots, zombie's, invasions? For all the Prince 50 bb out there?

Yes. There is no provision in the law to suspend the AW ban during an emergency.

Mark One
09-03-2008, 6:06 PM
How easy are the Prince 50's to take out all together?

I'm not a guy to live my life in fear, but I am the kind of guy who prepares for the worst possible thing and then sits back and relaxes knowing I have prepared.

I have everything I need besides a good firearm to carry by my side. Right now its a Finn M39, a great firearm but I just want to blow my acquired gun fund on something semi-auto.

I also want a gun with a large fear factor, maybe it would keep the perps away

JeffM
09-03-2008, 6:14 PM
...I just want to blow my acquired gun fund on something semi-auto.

I also want a gun with a large fear factor, maybe it would keep the perps away

"AK-47, when you absolutely, positively have to kill..." well, you know the quote.

http://hometown.aol.com/u873/images/2%20romanian's%20akm's.jpg


And great CA LEGAL ones for sale:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=113928

bigdave1121
09-03-2008, 6:20 PM
This is my Cali legal SHTF gun:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj33/bigdave112185/MyMini2.jpg

Ruger Mini 14 with Pre-Ban 20 round mags

Capt Jack
09-03-2008, 6:27 PM
As others mentioned, try a search for "SHTF" and you will probably come up with enough to read all day!

My 2 cents if you don't want to mess with a BB or Prince 50, would be a RAA Saiga in either .223 or 7.62. Reliable as a stone axe, can use cheap Wolf ammo and cheaper than an AR, plus you can always convert to a full on PG config later!

Did I mention that most can be had for $350-400 :D

SJgunguy24
09-03-2008, 6:36 PM
Saiga 7.62 or the 223 model. The Saiga's are Russian made AK type sporting rifles. Very reliable and can be retrofitted to AK 103 specs in a couple of hours + some parts and tools. You might want to get a couple of em quickly though, the price keeps going up and shipments from Russia could be "delayed" by current events. I got my pair for less than 850$ after DROS and CA manditory blood letting.

Springfield45
09-03-2008, 6:45 PM
Springfield Armory XD .45
Springfield Armory M1A scoped 3x9 40mm illuminated mil-dot
Mossberg 500 combat 12 gauge
Marlin camp carbine 9mm

Mark One
09-03-2008, 6:45 PM
Now if I wanted to make one like a AK would I need to install a bullet button?

I also have a "thing" for those AR-15/M4 rifles. Maybe its just because I am young.

I say if it came of Russia it must be good. They know how to make good firearms.

Young Version
09-03-2008, 6:59 PM
Now if I wanted to make one like a AK would I need to install a bullet button?

I also have a "thing" for those AR-15/M4 rifles. Maybe its just because I am young.

I say if it came of Russia it must be good. They know how to make good firearms.

No, they know how to make very crude firearms.

JeffM
09-03-2008, 7:02 PM
No, they know how to make very crude firearms.

If that's how you define "works every time" then yea, they're "crude". Or "simple". Or "effective". Or "reliable".

Nikola
09-03-2008, 7:03 PM
Regardless, the Saigas are superbly reliable and as accurate as they need to be. I would probably grab my Saiga in a Katrina-type situation (like the geologically overdue massive quake).

Patriot
09-03-2008, 7:04 PM
I'm not arguing with crude at 2330ft/second :eek:

Young Version
09-03-2008, 7:08 PM
Regardless, the Saigas are superbly reliable and as accurate as they need to be. I would probably grab my Saiga in a Katrina-type situation (like the geologically overdue massive quake).

And for that situation, it would be a good choice.

Crude often translates to reliable, and in a SHTF scenario I can't imagine accuracy would be an issue.

mossy
09-03-2008, 7:10 PM
mossberg 590 is all i need :shifty:

basing110
09-03-2008, 7:13 PM
tac vest loaded with mags m&p45 cross draw, beowulf on single point sling/in my hands .my tag assault pack on my back with needed supplies and the grendel on the side gun mount on the assault pack ..it least if you have to walk somwhere and cant drive to the boonies haha .. after stuff has hit hard enough you can salvage all the stuff off the corpses so depends on what you want to start with cause eventually you will swap to more common rounds .. thats why ar's are so great

sorensen440
09-03-2008, 7:16 PM
I like ar-15s with p50s for a major shtf

God Bless The Mauser
09-03-2008, 7:19 PM
If SHTF my guns are not going to stay CA compliant. BB comes off AR and pistol grip goes on AK. I have the original mag release stored in the storage compartment in my AR buttstock. I would have more to worry about in a SHTF scenario than a few silly laws.

JeffM
09-03-2008, 7:25 PM
If SHTF my guns are not going to stay CA compliant. BB comes off AR and pistol grip goes on AK. I have the original mag release stored in the storage compartment in my AR buttstock. I would have more to worry about in a SHTF scenario than a few silly laws.

The problem will be afterwards. Law and Order will come back. It always does in one form or another.

You think that when your gun gets confiscated at some checkpoint, they won't give you special attention when they have the time?

If an AR or AK is just as functional gripless or with a Monster Man Grip, it'll do fine, and it won't get you a felony AW charge when the smoke clears.

SJgunguy24
09-03-2008, 7:28 PM
And for that situation, it would be a good choice.

Crude often translates to reliable, and in a SHTF scenario I can't imagine accuracy would be an issue.

A center mass hit on a man sized target at 200yrds is not much of a challenge with my Saiga's. The fact that they came out of the box shooting like that with NO adjustments from the factory is very cool. My G17 for a side arm and 3 standard mags and were GTG.

ironcross
09-03-2008, 7:36 PM
not sure if its been said but the B 15?

nobs11
09-03-2008, 7:37 PM
The problem will be afterwards. Law and Order will come back. It always does in one form or another.

You think that when your gun gets confiscated at some checkpoint, they won't give you special attention when they have the time?

If an AR or AK is just as functional gripless or with a Monster Man Grip, it'll do fine, and it won't get you a felony AW charge when the smoke clears.

Well said. SHTF, if it ever happens, will be in the form of an earthquake or a fire in CA. I doubt that there will be absolute anarchy all over the state. When law and order returns, good luck with your illegal AWs. "Hello officer, can you wait here 15 min while I reinstall my BB?"

Black Majik
09-03-2008, 7:40 PM
How bout' the M1A? That'll be my first choice. 20 rounds of .308 x spares.

Infidel
09-03-2008, 7:45 PM
Assuming I need to move around I would probably sling the AR and 12ga and holster the glock. But the 12ga is always the go to gun.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/aronreyes/IMG_0953.jpg

However, I might sling the AK instead of the AR just because the wife does best with the ARs. Then you have two shooters instead of one!

Mark One
09-03-2008, 7:53 PM
How bout' the M1A? That'll be my first choice. 20 rounds of .308 x spares.

Thats what I was thinking would be best for Cali too. But wasnt sure what all the other options where.

Also, what kind of shotgun is that?

J_Rock
09-03-2008, 7:53 PM
So I am asking; what do you guys use?



The one Ive trained with and can use effectively

Cato
09-03-2008, 7:56 PM
How bout' the M1A? That'll be my first choice. 20 rounds of .308 x spares.


I have to second that. Like a lot of us here, I'm too much a boyscout to alter my OLL even during a SHTF scenario. I'm not small so I can handle the bigger M1A just fine. I shoot my Garands much better though. So if you guys hear a "ping," when the SHTF, it's just Cato.

tommyid1
09-03-2008, 8:29 PM
benelli m4 auto tac shotty

djbooya
09-03-2008, 8:52 PM
I have to second that. Like a lot of us here, I'm too much a boyscout to alter my OLL even during a SHTF scenario. I'm not small so I can handle the bigger M1A just fine. I shoot my Garands much better though. So if you guys hear a "ping," when the SHTF, it's just Cato.

the garand is a heavy one though. I'm shooting mine for the first time this weekend...

Crusader
09-03-2008, 9:26 PM
It would be both my SKS and my M38. I've got a large military pack set up that's large enough to fit my M38 in, so I'd just throw it in the bag and put the bag on my back. It's also got a few days food, water, and some necessary items such as multi-tools, first aid kits, blankets, etc.

My SKS would be my first choice though, as I have a few hundred rounds in battle packs for it, so it'd be easy to grab and go.

dexter9659
09-03-2008, 10:08 PM
Dont forget your Kukri. When used as a short sword, these can be very effective in close quarters combat situations.

Blades dont need reloading.

tombinghamthegreat
09-03-2008, 10:19 PM
Saiga is an effective rifle for defense since you can use AK mags with a minor mod, CA legal, magazine feed, its cheap, uses cheap ammo, somewhat accurate and reliable. Yes i tend to recommend saiga's alot but its an excellent gun for 300 dollars.

TeirHawg
09-03-2008, 10:38 PM
Buy a case of 00 Buck Fed-Tac Flitecontrol, and a case of 12 gauge reduced recoil slugs.

Should be GTG in case of SHTF.

bigthaiboy
09-03-2008, 10:47 PM
My SKS would be my first choice though, as I have a few hundred rounds in battle packs for it, so it'd be easy to grab and go.


Only a few hundred? :p You need to start hoarding. You'll thank yourself, even if the only thing that ever happens is the price of Wolf ammo keeps going up.

AK build with MMG, 15 mags, 2K HP ammo
Mossberg 500 Persuader, 250rds "00"
Ruger P89, 7 mags, 600rds 9mm.

Unless it's totally necessary to bail out, I'm staying put.

X-NewYawker
09-03-2008, 11:25 PM
This is my Cali legal SHTF gun:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj33/bigdave112185/MyMini2.jpg

Ruger Mini 14 with Pre-Ban 20 round mags

When the Y2K hysteria hit my friends all started calling me to "Borrow" rifles. They all wanted mini-14s. Light, 223 ammo. Preban 20 rounders (and plastic 30s!) And legal legal legal.

During the riots pre-ban ARs would have been cool, but costly in litigation later.

I just ordered a "Target" Mini. I'm hoping in a SCAR stock (CA LEGAL) it could become a SHTF gun.

Mini --
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/mini-14-3-1.jpg

or 7615 with Beta C-Mag....
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/7615-1.jpg

deldgeetar
09-04-2008, 12:06 AM
Saiga 7.62x39 would be my choice. Easily modified to accept AK mags if you happen to have any (or find any depending on the situation.)

An M1A wouldn't be a bad choice but the ammo will cost you about twice the x39.

vandal
09-04-2008, 10:00 AM
http://contentproviders.com/dwimages/saiga_v5.jpg
http://contentproviders.com/dwimages/krinkaow.jpg

technique
09-04-2008, 10:15 AM
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/IMG_0044.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/SACVrange005.jpg

Mississippi
09-04-2008, 12:17 PM
AR15 (SHTF then my prince50 becomes NV legal if you get my point) But the SHTF has to really be hitting the fan for me to even get close to braking the law.No exceptions.

Kimber warrior 1911 with 10 mags

Rem shotgun

geeknow
09-04-2008, 12:21 PM
Now if I wanted to make one like a AK would I need to install a bullet button?

I also have a "thing" for those AR-15/M4 rifles. Maybe its just because I am young.

I say if it came of Russia it must be good. They know how to make good firearms.

Yes, a bullet button would be required on your cali compliant AK style rifle.

If you have a "thing" for AR style rifles, build or buy one. This isnt the type of crowd that requires justification for your desires here :D

One thing that can fairly be said of most russian small arms. They will always go bang when asked to.:p

By your post count, it seems like you've just joined the party. Welcome.

AaronHorrocks
09-04-2008, 1:01 PM
The problem will be afterwards. Law and Order will come back. It always does in one form or another.

You think that when your gun gets confiscated at some checkpoint, they won't give you special attention when they have the time?

If an AR or AK is just as functional gripless or with a Monster Man Grip, it'll do fine, and it won't get you a felony AW charge when the smoke clears.

Did Katrina teach you anything? You're not getting your guns back. Not pistol not "assault weapon" not even a WWI German bolt action Mauser. There will be no paperwork. Time will not be on your side. They will have you at gunpoint and you will tell them where the guns are, and they will go get them. Even a 70 year old grandma with an unloaded revolver will be beated down by three LEOs to get her disarmed.

Mark One
09-04-2008, 2:24 PM
Thank you guys for all the opinions. I guess I'll just have to decide what I want more.

bigthaiboy
09-04-2008, 3:06 PM
Did Katrina teach you anything? You're not getting your guns back. Not pistol not "assault weapon" not even a WWI German bolt action Mauser. There will be no paperwork. Time will not be on your side. They will have you at gunpoint and you will tell them where the guns are, and they will go get them. Even a 70 year old grandma with an unloaded revolver will be beated down by three LEOs to get her disarmed.


Try to keep up. By law, a Katrina-style gun grab will most likely never happen, because the Govenator signed AB 1645 in 2007. http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/fairfax/ab1645signed/

sorensen440
09-04-2008, 3:07 PM
Try to keep up. By law, a Katrina-style gun grab will most likely never happen, because the Govenator signed AB 1645 in 2007. http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/fairfax/ab1645signed/

lol think there gonna follow the law do ya ??

nobs11
09-04-2008, 3:15 PM
Did Katrina teach you anything? You're not getting your guns back. Not pistol not "assault weapon" not even a WWI German bolt action Mauser. There will be no paperwork. Time will not be on your side. They will have you at gunpoint and you will tell them where the guns are, and they will go get them. Even a 70 year old grandma with an unloaded revolver will be beated down by three LEOs to get her disarmed.

Even in this hypothetical scenario, if there is a choice between your guns being taken away or your guns being taken away AND facing charges for possessing an illegal AW, it seems like a no brainer?

AJAX22
09-04-2008, 3:18 PM
Allow me to suggest the AMD65.

It is a compact AK47 type rifle, with a solid effective folding stock, detachable mags, a pistol grip and a forward pistol grip which was designed for use while in a moving vehicle.

Mine have been converted to straight pull bolt action guns (to comply with the AW laws) but can be converted to semi auto by swaping the carrier out for one that still has a gas piston.

it really doesn't get much more evil than an amd65...

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0404.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0396.jpg


It is kindof nice to have choices though....

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0167.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/S5000852.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/S5000747.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/S5001360.jpg

JeffM
09-04-2008, 3:19 PM
Did Katrina teach you anything? You're not getting your guns back. Not pistol not "assault weapon" not even a WWI German bolt action Mauser. There will be no paperwork. Time will not be on your side. They will have you at gunpoint and you will tell them where the guns are, and they will go get them. Even a 70 year old grandma with an unloaded revolver will be beated down by three LEOs to get her disarmed.

If it comes down to confiscation, I have no doubt that names/ID will be taken with the firearm. And it won't necessarily be done with the intent to return the firearm in question. More likely to secure search and arrest warrants later on for those found carrying. I think you underestimate how much some politicians hate guns and gun owners.

Even if it gets bad, I will still comply with the law regarding my weapons. It's easy enough to do with MMG/gripless configurations. The limited added utility of a pistol grip is not worth prison time my friend.

ETA: If AJAX was still in CA, his house would sure be one of my marked way-points on the SHTF evacuation map. :D

leelaw
09-04-2008, 3:25 PM
During the riots pre-ban ARs would have been cool, but costly in litigation later.


Tell that to the folks in Koreatown in Los Angeles who defended their shops from rioters and looters during the 1992 riots, by using pistols on the ground, and AR-15s and shotguns from the rooftops, who were never prosecuted.

The guns were legal, the use of force was legal. The aesthetics of the gun shouldn't matter.

AJAX22
09-04-2008, 3:28 PM
Heh... I remember in one of those video's a korean guy had one of those HK 89 pistol with a sidefolding stock on it. It would not have surprised me in the least if he had a FA trigger pack in it. (it was already an SBR)

technique
09-04-2008, 3:30 PM
Didn't they search and confiscate weapons from evacuees loaded onto buses this time around? Or was that just BS.

trinydex
09-04-2008, 3:46 PM
http://contentproviders.com/dwimages/krinkaow.jpg

so uh, what's that paper say?

AJAX22
09-04-2008, 3:55 PM
Looks like an AOW tax stamp from the feds ;)

spdrcr
09-04-2008, 4:25 PM
Didn't they search and confiscate weapons from evacuees loaded onto buses this time around? Or was that just BS.

From what I read, it wasn't some unexpected surprise. Evacuees were told numerous times, in advance, that if they were going to require PUBLIC transportation to leave the city, that they should not bring weapons as they would be confiscated.

Hamster16
09-04-2008, 4:25 PM
Try to keep up. By law, a Katrina-style gun grab will most likely never happen, because the Govenator signed AB 1645 in 2007. http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/fairfax/ab1645signed/

according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidenti al_Directive the laws the governator put into place will mean nothing if the president decides. this is a presidential directive allowing him to replace our government with one that is not overseen by congress and he is in total control of. in theory he could suspend the constitution. if the president declares a ""catastrophic emergency." Such an emergency is construed as "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions." basically if the **** were to hit the fan bad enough we could lose a lot of our rights if not all but i dont think the president would screw americans like that. who knows though maybe this is just an innocent directive ment to protect americans from harm.

thedrickel
09-04-2008, 4:45 PM
S-223 FTW :D

http://i33.tinypic.com/e97ztu.jpg

technique
09-04-2008, 4:47 PM
Is that scope up high enough for you????

thedrickel
09-04-2008, 4:48 PM
Heh . . . way too high! I've shot it that way . . . it's not as uncomfortable as it looks.

steve2071
09-04-2008, 5:04 PM
http://contentproviders.com/dwimages/saiga_v5.jpg
http://contentproviders.com/dwimages/krinkaow.jpg

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of buttstock is that on your Saiga? I've been looking for a FDE colored one for my own.

thedrickel
09-04-2008, 5:25 PM
It looks like he painted a Saiga stock.

trinydex
09-04-2008, 6:33 PM
Looks like an AOW tax stamp from the feds ;)

:D aaaand theeeeeen

elSquid
09-04-2008, 6:53 PM
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of buttstock is that on your Saiga? I've been looking for a FDE colored one for my own.

After seeing Vandal post that picture a couple of times, I finally broke down and bought one for myself.

This is why I need to stay off of Calguns. :)

-- Michael

Hamster16
09-04-2008, 7:06 PM
im trying to get one right now. calguns is like alcoholics supporting alcoholics. i cant seem to shake the habit as long as i visit this site. that saiga looks really good.

X-NewYawker
09-04-2008, 7:26 PM
If SHTF my guns are not going to stay CA compliant. BB comes off AR and pistol grip goes on AK. I have the original mag release stored in the storage compartment in my AR buttstock. I would have more to worry about in a SHTF scenario than a few silly laws.

And if it is a REAL no warning SHTF, how do you switch out your bullet button while fires are burning, kids and wife are running around the house filling water jugs (and magazines)

bombadillo
09-04-2008, 7:44 PM
wow, nobody mentioned sks at all. I just got a new one and am impressed by it. I guess its why so many people use those and ak's worldwide. Everybody needs a 9mm sidearm, 1 shotgun, and a ruger 10/22. As for rifle, its your decision as there are so many out there. M1A, AR, mini-14/30, saiga, AK, SKS, and countless others. Take your pick with what you can use and actually hit things.

bigthaiboy
09-04-2008, 9:53 PM
lol think there gonna follow the law do ya ??

I did say: "a Katrina-style gun grab will most likely never happen", if in such a scenario, law and order can be reastablished within days or weeks.

On the other, if a huge, gigantic s*** did hit the proverbial fan, the type that would cause a complete break down of law and order for months or years, then yes, there's a good chance the law will go out the window completely.

I'm sure the state and PD are well aware of the backdraft of lawsuits if they policed a gun grab, now it has been made law, by denying CA citizens their 2A rights when they needed it the most.

AaronHorrocks
09-05-2008, 6:53 AM
Try to keep up. By law, a Katrina-style gun grab will most likely never happen, because the Govenator signed AB 1645 in 2007. http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/fairfax/ab1645signed/

If the CONSITITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA did not stop them, why would AB 1645? That's like saying "Well I have a restraining order, so my stalker is going to stop" :rolleyes:
Paperwork does not stop bad people.

If it comes down to confiscation, I have no doubt that names/ID will be taken with the firearm. And it won't necessarily be done with the intent to return the firearm in question. More likely to secure search and arrest warrants later on for those found carrying. I think you underestimate how much some politicians hate guns and gun owners.

Once again, I refer you to the Katrina confiscations. There was no paperwork. No names, no ID, no receipts. Even when people demanded a receipt for thier guns the police replied with "We're not giving receipts. If we were, we'd be out here all day."

geeknow
09-05-2008, 7:54 AM
lol think there gonna follow the law do ya ??

they have to if they expect us to;)