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braskin
09-02-2008, 8:58 PM
My first AR was a complete Stag Model 1 from Lan World. Not only was it perfect cosmetically right out of the case, I have put over 1000 rds through it with out a single hic up. So, for my first AR build, I went with a Stag 2H Complete Upper, with the plans to put a DD Omega Rail on it.
The Stag 2H upper shows up today, fits nice on a DoubleStar lower, no gap, no play. Put the DD Omega rail on. At this point, Iím really excited with my first creation, until I noticed the ejection port cover is all tweaked!

See attached pictures!

How does this get pass QA!? Iím calling Stag tomorrow to see about returning it.

jandmtv
09-02-2008, 9:17 PM
With Stag, its a crap shoot, you will either get a lemon! or one that works. Next time, go with either CMMG, RRA or Armalite if you want to stay in that price range but get a quality product, or go with LMT or Noveske if you want to spend more.

Infidel
09-02-2008, 9:20 PM
Never had any issues with my stag. Just because you got a bad one doesn't speak badly of all of them. I say give 'em a second chance, you said it yourself you love your model 1.

Blue
09-02-2008, 9:26 PM
Looks like it was put in an action block with the bolt carrier partially in.

JBird33
09-02-2008, 9:27 PM
My Stag has been perfect.

braskin
09-02-2008, 9:31 PM
Iím definitely going to give Stag a chance to correct the problem. Has anyone here ever dealt with Stag directly for a factory defect? I would just take it back to the store I bought it from, but he has only been open 2 months, and he special ordered it for me upon my request. So I donít want to bother him with it.

ZOMBIEHUNTER
09-02-2008, 9:39 PM
my stag model 6 is perfect to many people jump on the nuts of one brand and always have something to say about others

glockman19
09-02-2008, 9:47 PM
I have 2 Stag rifles one model 2 and one model 4.

The model 4 has been flawless.

The model 2 had a bad upper and was switched out in days. I have had only excellent experiences with Stag Customer Service & lanworldinc.com and think Chris is as stand up a guy as they come.

I want to purchase the new model 6 varmint upper and I'll order it through lanworld. Because I am buying an upper only to go on an existing stag lower it doesn't need to be DROSed an dcan be sent directly to me.

Three reasons I like Stag:
1) Warranty
2) Parent Co makes parts for everyone else.
3) Great price to value ratio.

PolishMike
09-02-2008, 9:48 PM
With Stag, its a crap shoot, you will either get a lemon! or one that works. Next time, go with either CMMG, RRA or Armalite if you want to stay in that price range but get a quality product, or go with LMT or Noveske if you want to spend more.


ill disagree with that.

Stag has been a pretty consistent company IMHO.

Definitely a class about M1S and other similar brands

braskin
09-02-2008, 9:54 PM
The model 2 had a bad upper and was switched out in days. I have had only excellent experiences with Stag Customer Service


glockman19

Did Stag send you a call tag, or did you have to eat shipping costs?

Young Version
09-02-2008, 9:59 PM
I haven't really heard anything bad about Stag, so I'd say you just got unlucky.

They're certainly not top of the line, but they're reliable. Every company can and will make mistakes.

jimbo1747
09-02-2008, 10:01 PM
I too have to disagree with jandmtv. Stag is the civilian division of CMT (continental machine tool), which is a major contractor for the military.

The law of averages almost guarantees that you'll get a bad gun/part eventually. For me, how that company deals with the problem determines whether they deserve any more of my hard earned money or not.

Farmer_Rob
09-02-2008, 10:02 PM
jandmtv didnt say anything out of line to me- crap shoot on the QC is true of alot of products... Friday gun, monday morning nightmare... it hapens..

proof will be in how they rectify it...

5968
09-02-2008, 10:26 PM
I only have one Stag, but I have never had any problems with it. EVERY company misses some Q&C every once in a while. I say give them a call and see what they say.

aplinker
09-02-2008, 11:14 PM
I too have to disagree with jandmtv. Stag is the civilian division of CMT (continental machine tool), which is a major contractor for the military.

The law of averages almost guarantees that you'll get a bad gun/part eventually. For me, how that company deals with the problem determines whether they deserve any more of my hard earned money or not.

Just because they're under the same umbrella doesn't mean they're dry.

it's been pretty clear for a while Stag's QC isn't up to par. Their quality also isn't where I would want it to be. If you shoot a few boxes of ammo a month you'll probably be just fine and odds are you'll get one that doesn't have out of the box issues.

However, the details are often not right.

Every brand turns out rifles/uppers with issues. It's the overall QC program that really matters.

Paratus et Vigilans
09-02-2008, 11:24 PM
Though I'm just a "sample of one," I've got several Stags and have had zero problems with any of them. My only complaint about Stags is that their FSB's are a ***** and a half to get off the barrel! :eek:

My next Stag is going to be a 6L upper. The Stag lower for that build has been in the safe for almost a year waiting for its lefty varmint upper. :D

Are you sure you didn't ding the ejection port dust cover yourself when you added your rail to the upper? :confused:

BTW, it's such an inexpensive and easy part to replace, just ask Stag to send you a new one. Don't go to the trouble of shipping the upper back to have them do it.

BP88
09-02-2008, 11:48 PM
At least it was only a simple thing like a dust cover. I know it sucks paying good money and getting something like this but I'm sure if you send the dust cover back they will replace it free of charge. I have a Stag 2h upper and Stag 15 lower and it's 100% perfect everytime I go out to the range.

cleanguy46
09-03-2008, 5:58 AM
I disagree with jandmtv as well. He is a known out spoken critic of Stag and everyones entitled to their opinion. I have a Stag build and topped it with a 4H upper and it has been nothing but reliable and accurate. Sorry to see the dust cover tweeked a little, but it's an easy fix and will not comprimise the reliability and accuracy of your weapon.

scubamark13
09-03-2008, 7:30 AM
I have had to send one of my Stag uppers back to them. They paid for shipping and returned it within a week. I thought there customer service was excellent. I have 3 other Stag uppers that I have had no problems. with. IMHO Stags are great rifles for the money.

braskin
09-03-2008, 8:58 AM
Are you sure you didn't ding the ejection port dust cover yourself when you added your rail to the upper? :confused:

BTW, it's such an inexpensive and easy part to replace, just ask Stag to send you a new one. Don't go to the trouble of shipping the upper back to have them do it.

I don't see how I could have "ding" the ejection port cover by putting on a DD Omega Rail 7.0 It was very easy to put on, even for a noob like me.

I don't have the tools or knowledge to replace the cover myself. My understanding is the delta ring has to come off.

Talked to stag this morning. Paul @ Stag said it's normal for the cover to be bent sometimes because it's a stamped piece of steal. I emailed him a picture, and he is going to call me back.

Infidel
09-03-2008, 10:46 AM
Though I'm just a "sample of one," I've got several Stags and have had zero problems with any of them. My only complaint about Stags is that their FSB's are a ***** and a half to get off the barrel! :eek:

My next Stag is going to be a 6L upper. The Stag lower for that build has been in the safe for almost a year waiting for its lefty varmint upper. :D

Are you sure you didn't ding the ejection port dust cover yourself when you added your rail to the upper? :confused:

BTW, it's such an inexpensive and easy part to replace, just ask Stag to send you a new one. Don't go to the trouble of shipping the upper back to have them do it.

+1 on the 6L I can't wait to get that one. My dad has an Accuracy Systems Mini 14 he says will crap on the 6L...We'll see:37:

Although I'm gonna have to have him shoot both, I don't think I can keep up with someone who went through Marine Scout Sniper school and was a SWAT counter Sniper for 10 years, even if I had a superior rifle

PIRATE14
09-03-2008, 11:17 AM
Just because they're under the same umbrella doesn't mean they're dry.

it's been pretty clear for a while Stag's QC isn't up to par. Their quality also isn't where I would want it to be. If you shoot a few boxes of ammo a month you'll probably be just fine and odds are you'll get one that doesn't have out of the box issues.

However, the details are often not right.

Every brand turns out rifles/uppers with issues. It's the overall QC program that really matters.

We have STAG rifles at 5 different LE ranges and they are hammered on all the time so......they work.....whether or not you shoot 50 rds a month or 550rds a minute.....

Bent door not a big deal, coulda flipped open in shipping and bent by the UPS man........the UPS man is notorious for handguard damage.....

Plus you could prolly rap it w/ a hammer and be good ta go...but it's new so they'll fix it easy for you......

NiteQwill
09-03-2008, 1:38 PM
My Stag 2HT is trustworthy and great quality. The only thing I may replace is having a MPI BCG.

Although, with money, my next upper will be LaRue or LMT.

GTXR390
09-04-2008, 8:48 AM
I've got 2 Stags which i purchased. (Still working on my first AR assembly project). Both STags work Great! I don't have anything else to compare to though.

I have a Model 1 and a Model 2. No FTF's or FTE, except for on the Model1, but that was a simple fix...bad magazine. But i've also only shot xm193 through them...some UMC remington, and Privi M855...and some regular Privi 62gr.

Both rifles ate all of it. Next build i'm thinking of a RRA full upper, or a YHM diamond fluted upper. :cool2:

braskin
09-04-2008, 8:58 AM
After 2 phone calls and an emailed picture of the port cover, Stag is emailing me a shipping label. So, they are stepping up and taking care of it for me. As someone suggested here, they suspect the ejection port cover came open during shipping and was damaged then. Everyone says they have good customer service and so far that holds true. :D

LewDog
09-04-2008, 10:23 AM
Glad to hear they are going to take care of it for you. Obviously it's an inconvenience but it happens. I've put almost 1000 rounds through my 2HT and it is still working perfectly without a single FTF or FTE! I'm sure you'll be happy with it once this little problem is fixed. Goodluck!

WallyGeorge
09-04-2008, 10:31 AM
My Stag 2HT is trustworthy and great quality. The only thing I may replace is having a MPI BCG.

Although, with money, my next upper will be LaRue or LMT.

No need to, all Stag bolts are MPI tested per Stag CS. I don't know why they dont mark them as such, but they're all tested.

The only thing they need to improve on is the staking job they do on the bolt carrier! It looked like a caveman got ahold of mine... :mad:


it's been pretty clear for a while Stag's QC isn't up to par. Their quality also isn't where I would want it to be. If you shoot a few boxes of ammo a month you'll probably be just fine and odds are you'll get one that doesn't have out of the box issues.


So what parts are not "up to par"?!? Their parent company (CMT) supplies parts for both mil contracts and much of the civilian AR industry. Stag uses F marked FSB, MPI tested bolts, mil spec buffer tubes, etc. Other than occasional QC, which I've seen with all brands, what about the Stag don't you like?
And how many Stag rifles have you dealt with to make this judgement?

NiteQwill
09-04-2008, 12:42 PM
No need to, all Stag bolts are MPI tested per Stag CS. I don't know why they dont mark them as such, but they're all tested.

The only thing they need to improve on is the staking job they do on the bolt carrier! It looked like a caveman got ahold of mine... :mad:




So what parts are not "up to par"?!? Their parent company (CMT) supplies parts for both mil contracts and much of the civilian AR industry. Stag uses F marked FSB, MPI tested bolts, mil spec buffer tubes, etc. Other than occasional QC, which I've seen with all brands, what about the Stag don't you like?
And how many Stag rifles have you dealt with to make this judgement?
Really? I didn't know that! They should mark the damn things if they are but that is very good info to know, thank you for the insight. :D

My only slight complaint is the "slight roughness" of BCG and charging handle, I guess I'm kind of used to the baby smooth Colt/FN BCG in my M4/M16A2.

aplinker
09-04-2008, 1:50 PM
So what parts are not "up to par"?!? Their parent company (CMT) supplies parts for both mil contracts and much of the civilian AR industry. Stag uses F marked FSB, MPI tested bolts, mil spec buffer tubes, etc. Other than occasional QC, which I've seen with all brands, what about the Stag don't you like?
And how many Stag rifles have you dealt with to make this judgement?

I said QC. They use good parts, except for the occasional ones that seem to be from their gov't reject pile.

Last I checked they batch MPI their carriers, which is why they're not marked as MPI. They're also not shot peened, which is why the companies that do individual shot peening and MPI with CMT BCGs can sell them for more.

Out of spec chambers, insufficient carrier staking, poor/improper machining on the upper, gas tube not attached, improper timing of FH, canted FSBs, saw an M4 with no receiver extensions...

I've looked over about 50 Stags.

Another big issue is Stags are one of the least capable at running Wolf, which, to me, is a big issue as I feel this is a good test of reliability. I want an upper that will run anything I throw at it.

jandmtv
09-04-2008, 2:04 PM
LOL, its funny how people jump on a thread to defend their purchase without looking at the facts. The fact is, more threads are started on this forum about problems with Stag uppers (whether its bad QC or FTE/FTF issues, or my all time favorite "my stag wont feed this or that ammo, so its must be the ammo!") than any other brand. Hell, I have not even seen 1 bad post about M1S uppers (and their uppers truly are crap), and there are plenty of people here who own M1S uppers.

Stag is crap in my book, and will remain to be crap until they get their sheet together and start producing quality products.

aplinker
09-04-2008, 3:07 PM
LOL, its funny how people jump on a thread to defend their purchase without looking at the facts. The fact is, more threads are started on this forum about problems with Stag uppers (whether its bad QC or FTE/FTF issues, or my all time favorite "my stag wont feed this or that ammo, so its must be the ammo!") than any other brand. Hell, I have not even seen 1 bad post about M1S uppers (and their uppers truly are crap), and there are plenty of people here who own M1S uppers.

Stag is crap in my book, and will remain to be crap until they get their sheet together and start producing quality products.

I wouldn't go that far...

Part of the reason we see a lot of Stag threads is numbers. Stags are the Chevys of the AR world.

Silverfish
09-04-2008, 4:40 PM
I have a Stag 2HT upper purchased from ColdWar and during my short time with the upper it's been flawless. I've shot about 750 rds of fedxm193 and about 200rds of Wolf mil-classic. Also not that its Stag related but I've put about 150 rds each of Fed and Rem bulk through the barrel.

All with zero problems. So far very pleased with Stag.

NiteQwill
09-04-2008, 4:51 PM
I have a Stag 2HT upper purchased from ColdWar and during my short time with the upper it's been flawless. I've shot about 750 rds of fedxm193 and about 200rds of Wolf mil-classic. Also not that its Stag related but I've put about 150 rds each of Fed and Rem bulk through the barrel.

All with zero problems. So far very pleased with Stag.

Just curious, what did you replace the upper with?

cmace22
09-04-2008, 5:14 PM
ill disagree with that.

Stag has been a pretty consistent company IMHO.

Definitely a class about M1S and other similar brands

+1 never heard anything bad about Stagg as a matter of fact Ive only heard good things. Give them a call Im sure they will take care of you.

WallyGeorge
09-04-2008, 5:14 PM
[QUOTE=uclaplinker;1494755]I said QC. They use good parts, except for the occasional ones that seem to be from their gov't reject pile.

Last I checked they batch MPI their carriers, which is why they're not marked as MPI. They're also not shot peened, which is why the companies that do individual shot peening and MPI with CMT BCGs can sell them for more. [QUOTE]

UCLAPlinker,

Damn, I think you're right on this. :( I called and asked about the bolts and was told that they are all MPI 'd, but it doesn't make any sense why they wouldn't mark them if they were all checked?

I've personally inspected/checked 11 Stag rifles or uppers so far and no problems other than the obvious horrible BC staking, rough finish, and one FSB that appeared slightly canted.

shark92651
09-04-2008, 5:14 PM
We have sold hundreds of Stag uppers in the 15 months or so we have been in business and I personally only know of about 2 instances where the customer had a problem. In both cases Stag quickly issues a call tag and replaced the entire upper. I have also taken apart and customized dozens of their uppers and I can say that I rarely see any significant defect or cosmetic blemish either. I think the Stag bashing is mostly unwarranted. Perhaps we hear more complaints about Stags just because there are so many more of them in use in CA and by people on this forum than most of the other brands. They always step up and stand behind their products and that is what really matters.

aplinker
09-04-2008, 5:28 PM
It's not like this is a contest, bro! :)

This is about information.

I'm not big on Stag, but I'm not a Stag basher by any means. They do lots right, some not so great, but they deliver at a nice price point.

Lack of mid-length gas, 1/9 barrels are two big issues I have with Stag and why I wouldn't buy them myself, but the reduced QC level from mil-spec is another. I shoot heavy grain stuff with frequency, but most people don't, so 1/9 would suit them fine.

I respect David and Hector's opinions, but I also know what I've seen. I'm willing to bet they'd be quick to dump Stag if they delivered uppers with the quality of, say, Vulcan. They also want to defend the products they sell, and understandably so, when they're bashed without reason.

I think a lot of people get hurt or take too strong any comments that are in any way negative or questioning of their "personal favorite" brand.

Make informed choices and decisions. Know what you're getting for your money.

I said QC. They use good parts, except for the occasional ones that seem to be from their gov't reject pile.

Last I checked they batch MPI their carriers, which is why they're not marked as MPI. They're also not shot peened, which is why the companies that do individual shot peening and MPI with CMT BCGs can sell them for more.

UCLAPlinker,

Damn, I think you're right on this. :( I called and asked about the bolts and was told that they are all MPI 'd, but it doesn't make any sense why they wouldn't mark them if they were all checked?

I've personally inspected/checked 11 Stag rifles or uppers so far and no problems other than the obvious horrible BC staking, rough finish, and one FSB that appeared slightly canted.

PIRATE14
09-04-2008, 6:57 PM
It's not like this is a contest, bro! :)

I respect David and Hector's opinions, but I also know what I've seen. I'm willing to bet they'd be quick to dump Stag if they delivered uppers with the quality of, say, Vulcan. They also want to defend the products they sell, and understandably so, when they're bashed without reason.

Make informed choices and decisions. Know what you're getting for your money.

Well it's easy to defend STAG cause there isn't anything wrong w/ them.....I'd bet big $$$ noone eyeballs more different ARs than yours truely...

We have all the major ARs in house.....
COLT
LMT
NOVESKE
ARMALITE
BUSHMASTER
DPMS
STAG
CMMG
MEGA
DS
SMITH & WESSON

ON and ON......If they really sucked or had a sub par QC problem....we wouldn't deal w/ them cause we sell a ton of them.....

Most of the rifles that come back are 99.99 percent user error cause they are unfamilar w/ the weapon system....we quickly set them up and they are happily on their way again......

I've seen 2 uppers and a few BCGs that had to returned.....which is almost insignificant.......maybe they just send me all the good stuff....:D

STAG is good bang for the buck.......

Mid lengths and twist rate varies.........Bushmaster 99 percent 1/9.......I have 3 STAGs that are 1/7.....and a few COLTs that are 1/9.......NOT an Issue as long as I am the LAST MAN STANDING.......

Practice and knowing your rifle is what counts........guess I digressed a little.....

AJAX22
09-04-2008, 7:18 PM
Man Will,

You and your Midlength fetish..... it borders on obsession!

But I can't exactly judge, i think I've got 8 or 9 rifle lenght AR's... most set up as standard A2HB's with standard A2 stocks because thats what I enjoy personally.

A Stag is not the last AR you'll ever buy, but it makes a good first

Satex
09-04-2008, 7:21 PM
Iím calling Stag tomorrow to see about returning it.

Call them and ask about it - they have a history of setting things right.

Bill92869
09-04-2008, 7:41 PM
I have two Stag uppers and several lowers, all have been perfect specimens, assembled perfectly and functioned perfectly. I shoot el cheapo ammo through them as I don't have the time to reload and don't care to spend money if I don't have to. Oh by the way I have MONEY, and I freely spend it if I want to or feel I have to, to obtain my objective. In building various AR projects, my objective was to have as close to 100% reliable guns that were reasonably accurate and durable and all at a reasonable price. The Stag has fulfilled all my requirements. As with many things, there will be the occasional guy that has penis envy and has to have the best or most expensive of something. It's usually the same person that looks down his nose at the other fellow while saying he prefers this or that brand over what you have, but the thing you have is o.k. for someone like you as if you were a second rate citizen. Whatever you have and shoot if you like it and does what you want, YOU HAVE A GOOD GUN!

BroncoBob
09-04-2008, 7:52 PM
Stag Quality for my 2 Stags are excellent. Zero problems after over a year and hundreds of rounds.

GTXR390
09-05-2008, 9:14 AM
so are Stag's carbine length gas systems? i got a Model 1 and Model 2. both are 16" barrels.

How can i tell what type of gas system i'm using? length of the gas tube, from the front sight to the receiver?

If so what are the lengths which define carbine, mid, rifle length?

Thanks!

oh and sorry for the thread jacking, jus a quick question if ya'll can answer it fo me....thanks again!

Paratus et Vigilans
09-05-2008, 9:43 AM
so are Stag's carbine length gas systems? i got a Model 1 and Model 2. both are 16" barrels.

How can i tell what type of gas system i'm using? length of the gas tube, from the front sight to the receiver?

If so what are the lengths which define carbine, mid, rifle length?

Thanks!

oh and sorry for the thread jacking, jus a quick question if ya'll can answer it fo me....thanks again!


If you've got a Stag upper with a 16" barrel, it's got a carbine length gas system. The only Stag uppers that are NOT carbine length gas systems are the 4 and 4L (their A4gery) and the 6 and 6L (the Super Varminter). What defines the type of gas system is the placement of the gas port on the barrel (and of course the length of the gas tube back to the receiver). I'm not sure how the lengths are officially measured, so I'll hold my tongue on that question.

cleanguy46
09-05-2008, 10:16 AM
Well I guess I will proudly go ahead and continue to shoot my piece of crap Stag! I guess it's come to how high you can piss up on a wall in the world of the AR. I am planning another build and I will go with an upper quality lower and upper, but I know that my first build was a Stag and has been flawless to say the least.

braskin
09-05-2008, 11:15 AM
I'm going with what Stag has told me, It was most likely damaged in shipping. As of now, I'm judging them on there customer service, which as of this moment I'm going to say is a little sloppy, but the upper was dropped off @ UPS this morning. They didn't even ask me for my address. I wrote it on the printed out receipt I put in the box. Seems a bit disorganized. I am happy they paid for shipping. I waited 2 weeks for that upper, and suspect I'll be waiting for 2 more weeks!

sthornwall
09-05-2008, 11:50 AM
Wow, I am shocked at all the negative feed back about Stags. Every firearm manufacture produces lemons now and then. Let's not forget that Stag was the initial leader in the CA OLL movement and was kicking out rifles and parts like no other until everyone else jumped on the bandwagon producing lowers and such. Stags are still in very high demand and I am sure they are just trying to keep up. Send any parts back to them that are having issues while it's still under warranty, jeez. I have a Stag H1 that's never had any issues mechanically but my CMMG just plain refuses to function correctly with Wolf ammo alone. So should I automatically assume that all CMMG's are junk based on my experience so far with my rifle? I have three friends who have CMMG's that can run Wolf ammo with no problems and one of my friends Stag H1 jams up with the same ammo. To be honest it will always be a crap shoot with anything you buy. That's the way it is, just deal with it and move on. Braskin (the thread starter) was simply stating that he ran into a problem with his new Stag upper, I'm sure he wasn't looking for firearm brand bashing. I thought the purpose of the CalGuns forum was to be helpful and not disconcerting.

nobs11
09-05-2008, 12:00 PM
To be honest it will always be a crap shoot with anything you buy. That's the way it is, just deal with it and move on. Braskin (the thread starter) was simply stating that he ran into a problem with his new Stag upper, I'm sure he wasn't looking for firearm brand bashing. I thought the purpose of the CalGuns forum was to be helpful and not disconcerting.

I understand your sentiment, yet you can't deny that QC for some manufacturers is different from some others. You get what you pay for generally. Buying one of the higher end uppers is not a "crap shoot." If you buy a Larue or a Noveske or any higher quality brand, it will be perfect every single time. Stag does have QC problems that have been well documented if you search around on the Internet.

supersonic
09-05-2008, 12:04 PM
With Stag, its a crap shoot, you will either get a lemon! or one that works. Next time, go with either CMMG, RRA or Armalite if you want to stay in that price range but get a quality product, or go with LMT or Noveske if you want to spend more.

And YOUR personal experience dictates this? Kindly explain your firsthand experience with Stag's 50% failure rate; then tell us about your own personal experiences with CMMG/RRA/ARMALITE, and what makes them functionally superior. In your own educated opinion, of course.

LOL, its funny how people jump on a thread to defend their purchase without looking at the facts.

For some, it is almost always prudent to take one's own "advice.":)
Stag is crap in my book .

Won't touch that one with a 10,000-ft. pole.:p



EDIT 9/10: That's exactly what I thought.:rolleyes:

10RoundLimit
09-05-2008, 3:46 PM
I believe that Stag lowers and lpk's are just as good as everyone else's, but their upper's can be hit or miss. They have excellent customer service from the one experience I had with them.

Hopi
09-05-2008, 3:49 PM
Exactly. Stag was loyal to us from day 1.

Some will never know the lengths that calgunners have gone to just to get their hands on an elusive Stag.....2 weeks!!!

braskin
09-05-2008, 4:23 PM
I never intended for this thread to become a brand bashing thread. As I said my first rifle was/is a complete Stag Model 1. Over 1000 rds, never a FTF or FTE. Once my BB came loose, but that has nothing to do with Stag. I'm just all butt hurt that after finishing my first build, I have to send my upper back, and wait again for it. I really wanted to put some rds through it this weekend. When it comes back, and if it performs like my other Stag, I would buy again. Unless I win the Lotto! Thanks for letting me vent!:D

Bill92869
09-05-2008, 5:53 PM
Braskin, you did nothing wrong. You asked a question about Stags quality since you had an issue. I suspect your confidence was shaken and you were looking for some feedback to reassure you. Unfortunately a few of the know-it-alls had to chime in trying to exhibit their superiority in knowledge, experience, shooting prowess, and of course ownership of weapons. Any reply should have simply answered your question about Stag's qc. Any post attacking Stag and suggesting another brand is bound to arouse some reaction and rightfully so. You never asked what brand was the best, what brand is the most reliable, what brand would get you the most chicks.

cleanguy46
09-05-2008, 6:30 PM
braskin dont sweat it man. We have your six! Most of us Stag owners are happy with our Lowers and uppers or complete weapons as you will and it just doesn't matter what one individuals comments mean
because they are so biased against a particular brand. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Like a bad fart eventually the smell will go away! I bet you upper will be flawless when it arrives! ;)

Ballistic043
09-05-2008, 6:37 PM
If you buy a Larue or a Noveske or any higher quality brand, it will be perfect every single time. Stag does have QC problems that have been well documented if you search around on the Internet.


its a bit unfair to compare stag to another brand that hasnt been around very long. just because you cant readily google up noveske rifle problems does not mean they do not happen. contrary to what you might believe, there are many OLL owners who do not readily document their unique experiences for you to quiver over. if they did, you would see that literally every single company who has come out with an AR based rifle has seen their share of problems. if you think throwing money at a rifle is going to rid it of malfunctions, perhaps you can send me a check for 200 dollars. i will in turn, re-send a box of magical gnomes to enchant your rifle into supeior function

aplinker
09-05-2008, 9:16 PM
A lot of smoke being blown all over the place now.

Stag never shipped lowers direct to CA.

You'll get your problem fixed. Your upper will be fine. Relax - few things are ever as bad as they seem. :)

ivanimal
09-06-2008, 12:26 AM
3 stags no problems. I did drop the bolt and bend the gas port though. I sent it to them and they fixed it for free even though it was my fault.

supersonic
09-06-2008, 2:40 AM
Braskin, you did nothing wrong. You asked a question about Stags quality since you had an issue. I suspect your confidence was shaken and you were looking for some feedback to reassure you. Unfortunately a few of the know-it-alls had to chime in trying to exhibit their superiority in knowledge, experience, shooting prowess, and of course ownership of weapons. Any reply should have simply answered your question about Stag's qc. Any post attacking Stag and suggesting another brand is bound to arouse some reaction and rightfully so. You never asked what brand was the best, what brand is the most reliable, what brand would get you the most chicks.

I have another "word" for "them," but you hit the nail on the head. BTW, isn't it unbelieveably hilarious that someone can earn the moniker "CalGuns Veteran" simply based on POST COUNT!?!?(especially when the vast majority of those posts consist of really bad "advice" and one-worded "ooohs" , "ahhhs" , and "LOL's" ):rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

PIRATE14
09-06-2008, 9:08 AM
I understand your sentiment, yet you can't deny that QC for some manufacturers is different from some others. You get what you pay for generally. Buying one of the higher end uppers is not a "crap shoot." If you buy a Larue or a Noveske or any higher quality brand, it will be perfect every single time. Stag does have QC problems that have been well documented if you search around on the Internet.

Not always true w/ the highend brands......as well.......

PIRATE14
09-06-2008, 9:11 AM
Stag never shipped lowers direct to CA.



Oh, really........:rolleyes:......:chris:

Thats as far as you know........you gotta stop using absolutes.........

nobs11
09-06-2008, 9:12 AM
Not always true w/ the highend brands......as well.......

The OP had a problem with the ejection port cover being bent on a new upper that was sent to him.

I can't imagine that Larue or any higher end maker would ever ship out any upper with a twisted ejection port cover. Their packaging, quality control and customer service is of the highest quality. You do pay for that.

I am not attacking Stag. I have nothing against Stag. I have 3 ARs built on Stag lowers and I'd buy a Stag lower again in a heartbeat. But if you are saying that the higher end upper makers don't take more care in ensuring QC that is simply not true. I've known many Stag owners who had to send back their uppers due to admittedly small, but existent QC problems. This discussion started because someone at Stag failed at QC or packing. Otherwise this thread would not exist. You can't deny that. Sorry if I offended anyone.

WallyGeorge
09-06-2008, 9:28 AM
FYI: Just learned that ALL Stag bolts are both MPI'd and Shot Peened per Stag CS. :D

I've known many Stag owners who had to send back their uppers due to admittedly small, but existent QC problems. This discussion started because someone at Stag failed at QC. Otherwise this thread would not exist. You can't deny that. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Respectfully I ask, how do you know "many" Stag owners that have sent back their uppers? Don't doubt you, just would like to know.

Also, how do we know that the cover wasn't damaged EITHER during transit or when the owner installed the handguard? Strange that he only noticed the damage AFTER the handguard was installed.

PIRATE14
09-06-2008, 10:16 AM
The OP had a problem with the ejection port cover being bent on a new upper that was sent to him.

I can't imagine that Larue or any higher end maker would ever ship out any upper with a twisted ejection port cover. Their packaging, quality control and customer service is of the highest quality. You do pay for that.

I am not attacking Stag. I have nothing against Stag. I have 3 ARs built on Stag lowers and I'd buy a Stag lower again in a heartbeat. But if you are saying that the higher end upper makers don't take more care in ensuring QC that is simply not true. I've known many Stag owners who had to send back their uppers due to admittedly small, but existent QC problems. This discussion started because someone at Stag failed at QC or packing. Otherwise this thread would not exist. You can't deny that. Sorry if I offended anyone.

You can't say for a fact that it left the factory w/ a bent dust cover door....can you....

Most higher end uppers don't produce anywhere the numbers......but there are guys that aren't always satisfied w/ their highend uppers or rifles......Now I can state that as a FACT.....

Of course, this is the internet..........;)

nobs11
09-06-2008, 10:37 AM
You can't say for a fact that it left the factory w/ a bent dust cover door....can you....


No, but if it happened in transit it is Stag's fault. They should have packed it better. Look at how Larue packs their uppers. The UPS gorillas could drop it 15 feet and it would be undamaged. Sometimes people don't want to deal with the hassle of returning a damaged product and waiting 2-3 weeks.

Paratus et Vigilans
09-06-2008, 11:11 AM
Good Lord! What a lot of pages of posts over a bent ejection port door! And everyone and his brother seems to know lots of people who got a crappy Stag upper, too! Amazing! I don't know ONE person who got a crappy upper from Stag. I guess I don't get out enough! :rolleyes:

FWIW, I would simply have asked them to send me another door, but that's just me. Look at it as a great opportunity to learn how to pull the barrel off the upper! :) IMHO, every owner of an AR-15 rifle ought to know how to take it all apart and put it all back together again, but then again, that's just me.

Anyone with a crappy Stag upper can send it to me. I'll find SOME use for all those rejects! :D (Not holding my breath waiting for them to show up on my doorstep.)

aplinker
09-06-2008, 2:29 PM
Oh, really........:rolleyes:......:chris:

Thats as far as you know........you gotta stop using absolutes.........

hmmm... Well, that's news to me and a lot of others.

They haven't sold to a lot of other FFLs here in state and wouldn't now - that I do know in an absolute.

Care to say more, or just leave it at that? Your dual location FFLs gives them plausible deniability, so if you're the only one....

braskin
09-06-2008, 5:43 PM
As much as I hate to bring this thread back to the top, I have one more thing say. As Iíve said twice, Iím a Noob! This is my 2nd rifle, first build! With all due respect, Wally George,
Also, how do we know that the cover wasn't damaged EITHER during transit or when the owner installed the handguard? Strange that he only noticed the damage AFTER the handguard was installed.how would I have bent the ejection port cover while putting on a DD Omega Rail? I was like a 10 year old boy on Christmas morning. Pulled the upper right out of the Stag box and immediately attached it to my completed lower. Standing on end (Buttstock), I pulled down on the delta ring with both hand, while my brother separated and removed the standard hand guard. Then he slid in the DD upper rail, than the lower rail. Very easy as a lot of you know! Iím not saying I didnít tweak the cover, but I really donít see how I could have. If I could have some how made a mistake (to bent the cover), someone, please tell me! I LOVE learning from my mistakes! I tried to bend it back, NO WAY with out a hammer.

Also, Wally George, I see you are from the Central Coast! PM me if you ever need an extra shooting buddy!

supersonic
09-07-2008, 6:15 AM
hmmm... Well, that's news to me and a lot of others.

They haven't sold to a lot of other FFLs here in state and wouldn't now - that I do know in an absolute.

Care to say more, or just leave it at that? Your dual location FFLs gives them plausible deniability, so if you're the only one....

What's that I smell???? Could it be the acrid smoke from a burning headwrap & eyepatch? Aaaarrrrgggh! Yo-Ho-Ho and a bottle 'o rum!:smilielol5::rofl2::smilielol5::rofl2:

vega
09-07-2008, 8:11 AM
:lurk5:

WallyGeorge
09-07-2008, 8:50 AM
As much as I hate to bring this thread back to the top, I have one more thing say. As Iíve said twice, Iím a Noob! This is my 2nd rifle, first build! With all due respect, Wally George,

Also, Wally George, I see you are from the Central Coast! PM me if you ever need an extra shooting buddy!

Hey, didn't even notice youre from SLO! Cool to see more Calgunners from the Central Coast.

Also, didn't mean any disrespect in any way by saying you might have bent the cover. After reading that its a drop-in and not a free-float, would be real hard for you to bend the cover. If it was a free-float, there would have been more chance for this to happen.

What irks me are the Stag haters that want only the "best" specs and put Stag down because they heard Stag=junk on the infamous "black rifle" board.

PIRATE14
09-07-2008, 8:52 AM
hmmm... Well, that's news to me and a lot of others.

They haven't sold to a lot of other FFLs here in state and wouldn't now - that I do know in an absolute.

Care to say more, or just leave it at that? Your dual location FFLs gives them plausible deniability, so if you're the only one....

I apolgize to UCLAPLINKER for my cheapshot on him.........sometimes I get a little testy.......:chris:

PIRATE14
09-07-2008, 8:58 AM
No, but if it happened in transit it is Stag's fault. They should have packed it better. Look at how Larue packs their uppers. The UPS gorillas could drop it 15 feet and it would be undamaged. Sometimes people don't want to deal with the hassle of returning a damaged product and waiting 2-3 weeks.

IF you don't want the risk of a damaged package.....cause nothin is risk free....just go to the gunshow or your local BR Dealer and get one there.....that way you can see what it looks like....

STAG has one of the best shipping boxes for uppers.....we use those to ship other manufactures uppers that come wrapped in paper and cardboard....guess, we could prolly pay another 200 bucks and get them shipped in pelican case.....that is the only case that I have seen that the UPS, FEDEX, and airlines cannot uterly destroy....

supersonic
09-07-2008, 12:04 PM
True, they don't ship anymore but as usual if some people would learn to keep some things under wrap......we'd all be the better for it....

Is THIS ^^^ subversive attitude REALLY conducive to, not only being a law-abiding community, but sticking to what the true spirit of what the CalGuns cause is all about?;)

jandmtv
09-07-2008, 12:08 PM
IF you don't want the risk of a damaged package.....cause nothin is risk free....just go to the gunshow or your local BR Dealer and get one there.....that way you can see what it looks like....

STAG has one of the best shipping boxes for uppers.....we use those to ship other manufactures uppers that come wrapped in paper and cardboard....guess, we could prolly pay another 200 bucks and get them shipped in pelican case.....that is the only case that I have seen that the UPS, FEDEX, and airlines cannot uterly destroy....


If thats true, then would that mean that they have really bad QC if they didnt catch a F'd up ejection port cover? Or maybe they just didnt care.

PIRATE14
09-07-2008, 12:12 PM
If thats true, then would that mean that they have really bad QC if they didnt catch a F'd up ejection port cover? Or maybe they just didnt care.

What it means is that they do wrap stuff up nicely but even the best boxes can be crushed by the UPS man........

PIRATE14
09-07-2008, 12:19 PM
Is THIS ^^^ subversive attitude REALLY conducive to, not only being a law-abiding community, but sticking to what the true spirit of what the CalGuns cause is all about?;)

TO refresh our memory......CALGUNS did have a sperate forum that was only for specific things and people at the beginning of the OLL movement.......but, we always are law-abiding......:D

This is a subvervise website........didn't you already know that......:chris:

jandmtv
09-07-2008, 12:19 PM
What it means is that they do wrap stuff up nicely but even the best boxes can be crushed by the UPS man........

Then maybe you should take another look at that picture and tell me if you think that was damaged in transit. It sure as hell doesn't look like it was to me.

PIRATE14
09-07-2008, 12:25 PM
Then maybe you should take another look at that picture and tell me if you think that was damaged in transit. It sure as hell doesn't look like it was to me.

Pretty sure I already did.....maybe....I am not being clear enough for you....

Hopi
09-07-2008, 12:30 PM
TO refresh our memory......CALGUNS did have a sperate forum that was only for specific things and people at the beginning of the OLL movement.......but, we always are law-abiding......:D

This is a subvervise website........didn't you already know that......:chris:

ahhhh, I stumbled across some of the emails from the yahoo site i had stored away in my outlook folders.....good times......

supersonic
09-07-2008, 3:47 PM
Pretty sure I already did.....maybe....I am not being clear enough for you....

.........Oh, you were CRYSTAL clear. It won't do any good, no matter how hard you try.;)